Op, Let's talk Jets

[Patrick76777]

In EE's thread you said and I quote, "I think you're underestimating them (The Jets)."

Listen, The jets are the exact same team as the Bills. Exact!

And last year, we beat the ever loving life out of them twice. Only lost week 1 because JP had a couple bonehead turnovers and I was as drunk as a skunk.

Jets finished 3 games ahead of us. Let's look at their schedule. Exact same except for 2 games. The 2 opponents that are selected based on the teams finish in the previous season. Those games, In the AFC West, the Jets played the worst team in the league, Oakland and we got the best team in the league (Regular season) San Diego. In the AFC North, they get Cleveland and we get 13-3 Baltimore.

Slight advantage for the Jets.

Then there are other things, like the fact that they got Tennessee in week 1 with Kerry Collins at QB and we get Tennessee when they’re one of the hottest teams in the league with Vince Young in week 16. And we still almost beat them.

Switch schedules and we’re probably 10-6. And I’m confident in saying that.

Pennington can’t throw the ball over 25 yards. We torched their defense last year.

Sorry, but the Jets are at just about the same level as us.

We’re WAY better then Miami

Just need to split with NE and we almost did that last year also.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I think everyone is overestimating the Jets.

When things start to go south, the NY press will eat Baby Tuna for lunch.

[justasportsfan]

they do have a better rb but I think we have a better O as well.

[raphael120]

Pennington will come down this year, they have no real run game to speak of...yet.

Man-gina can only do so much. But honestly I think we're about even with the Jets. Our passing game may be the same or worse than the Jets, but our run game should be a lot better than the jets.

Edge: Bills.

[Patrick76777]

they do have a better rb but I think we have a better O as well.


I was never really impressed with Thomas Jones. He's good, but nothing to get scared over. By week 8, we'll have the better back. Take it to the bank.

Their O-Line is very good. After that, Eh the team's ok. They could go anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6.

But I think we can do the same thing. Anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6.

[justasportsfan]

I was never really impressed with Thomas Jones. He's good, but nothing to get scared over. By week 8, we'll have the better back. Take it to the bank.

Their O-Line is very good. After that, Eh the team's ok. They could go anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6.

But I think we can do the same thing. Anywhere from 6-10 to 10-6. He is better than what they had last year.

I agree, I think we will contain the CHAD like we did in the second game. Schobel will continue to own D' Brick and possibly send the Chad back to IR.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Thomas Jones is a nice back.

Pennington has a rag arm and can't make all the throws.

[RockStar36]

I never worry about the Jets. They are the one division team that I never fear or care about. It's almost like they aren't even a rival at times.

The only thing I might possibly worry about this year is Thomas Jones. He is a good back based on all the Bears games I saw last year. That may pose a problem, however Pennington will keep all the other teams in the games no matter how good Jones is.

[OpIv37]

In EE's thread you said and I quote, "I think you're underestimating them (The Jets)."

Listen, The jets are the exact same team as the Bills. Exact!

And last year, we beat the ever loving life out of them twice. Only lost week 1 because JP had a couple bonehead turnovers and I was as drunk as a skunk.

Jets finished 3 games ahead of us. Let's look at their schedule. Exact same except for 2 games. The 2 opponents that are selected based on the teams finish in the previous season. Those games, In the AFC West, the Jets played the worst team in the league, Oakland and we got the best team in the league (Regular season) San Diego. In the AFC North, they get Cleveland and we get 13-3 Baltimore.

Slight advantage for the Jets.

Then there are other things, like the fact that they got Tennessee in week 1 with Kerry Collins at QB and we get Tennessee when they’re one of the hottest teams in the league with Vince Young in week 16. And we still almost beat them.

Switch schedules and we’re probably 10-6. And I’m confident in saying that.

Pennington can’t throw the ball over 25 yards. We torched their defense last year.

Sorry, but the Jets are at just about the same level as us.

We’re WAY better then Miami

Just need to split with NE and we almost did that last year also.
Thomas Jones takes some of the pressure off of Pretty Boy Pennington. And Pennington, as much as I hate him, won't beat anyone deep but he's smart and makes excellent decisions with the football.

And they have a much better OL.

The Jets also added some talent on D through the draft and while I'm sure their young guys will struggle somewhat, their D wasn't nearly as bad as ours last year and didn't lose nearly as much experience.

The Jets aren't that much better than us, but they are better. They should be a fringe playoff team, whereas it will be all we can do to avoid being eliminated in November.

[mysticsoto]

Thomas Jones got hurt recently, so who knows what state he'll be in by the time we play them. I know he is scheduled to start come the start of the season, but he may not truly be at 100% and the rigors of the real game may wear him down quickly b'cse of that...we face him in week 4 in our house and we'll see how much he has to offer then.

[FlyingDutchman]

Thomas Jones takes some of the pressure off of Pretty Boy Pennington.

Pretty boy? He looks like a hobit from the shire.

[Patrick76777]

Thomas Jones takes some of the pressure off of Pretty Boy Pennington. And Pennington, as much as I hate him, won't beat anyone deep but he's smart and makes excellent decisions with the football.

And they have a much better OL.

The Jets also added some talent on D through the draft and while I'm sure their young guys will struggle somewhat, their D wasn't nearly as bad as ours last year and didn't lose nearly as much experience.

The Jets aren't that much better than us, but they are better. They should be a fringe playoff team, whereas it will be all we can do to avoid being eliminated in November.


Here's my problem with this Op. You act as if there are only absolutes. And as the great Obi Wan Kenobi said, "Only Siths deal in absolutes".

You say, "The Jets aren't that much better than us, but they are better. They should be a fringe playoff team, whereas it will be all we can do to avoid being eliminated in November"

So a slightly better team, (in your opinion), is considered a fringe playoff team, whereas the Bills, slightly below the Jets in your opinion, will be lucky to be alive in November.

You seem to discount the countless intangables that go into a football season. Injuries, weather, momentum, playing a team when they're having a tough time vs. playing a team that is hot, etc., etc., etc.

But whatever, the point of this thread is that the Jets are not that good. Average football team at best. But in the NFL, average teams can get hot and make some noise. Just look at the Steelers 2 years ago.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Jones has had knee problems in the past as well.

[CuseJetsFan83]

Jones has had knee problems in the past as well.

and pennington has shoulder problems, etc...... while i think marshawn willl be a beast for the bills , i just hope he can live up to his expectations........

as of now, until lynch proves he's worth all the praise the running edge is still in the corner of the jets, but only because even if jones gets hurt, there is still washington

[OpIv37]

Here's my problem with this Op. You act as if there are only absolutes. And as the great Obi Wan Kenobi said, "Only Siths deal in absolutes".

You say, "The Jets aren't that much better than us, but they are better. They should be a fringe playoff team, whereas it will be all we can do to avoid being eliminated in November"

So a slightly better team, (in your opinion), is considered a fringe playoff team, whereas the Bills, slightly below the Jets in your opinion, will be lucky to be alive in November.

You seem to discount the countless intangables that go into a football season. Injuries, weather, momentum, playing a team when they're having a tough time vs. playing a team that is hot, etc., etc., etc.

But whatever, the point of this thread is that the Jets are not that good. Average football team at best. But in the NFL, average teams can get hot and make some noise. Just look at the Steelers 2 years ago.

You can't count on intangibles to get you through- the only thing you can count on is talent and on paper, they're better than us. Last year, they were better than us on the field (I know we split, but they had a better record). They improved on D, our only improvement on D is Poz who doesn't even come close to making up for what we lost in Spikes, Fletcher AND Clements. On paper, we improved on O, but so far that hasn't been demonstrated on the field.

And yes, in the very competitive AFC, it doesn't take much to get bumped out of playoff contention. You're forgetting that our team is young and is likely to struggle at the beginning of the year and improve as the year goes on, so there's a good chance we could be working our way out of a huge hole come November. That's a lot less of an issue for the Jets.

[Patrick76777]

they're better than us. Last year, they were better than us on the field (I know we split, but they had a better record). .


did you read my first post. Did you see the schedule differences?

Cleveland and Oakland for the Jets

and

SD and Baltimore for the Bills.

They get 2 of the worst teams in the league and we get 2 of the best. That's the only reason they had a better record. I mean, it's the basis for the whole point of my argument! Everything else I said was just fluff, but you still managed to floss right over it.

They had the better record because they had a WAY easier schedule. End of story.

[Patrick76777]

I will not get baited into something else. The only point here is that the Jets are over-rated based on their 10-6 record last year. But as I've illustrated above, we outplayed them twice last year and they had a much easier schedule.

[justasportsfan]

The Jets also added some talent on D through the draft and while I'm sure their young guys will struggle somewhat, their D wasn't nearly as bad as ours last year and didn't lose nearly as much experience.

r.
there you go again hating on the bills , we may have sucked against the run but we were better against the pass and total defense comapred to the jets . The facts are there.

We averaged 10 yards more against the rush 140 and the jets 130.

No matter how you slice and dice it, it can be agrued we're better but to say their D WASN'T NEARLY AS BAD is simply not true.

[Bulldog]

and pennington has shoulder problems, etc...... while i think marshawn willl be a beast for the bills , i just hope he can live up to his expectations........

as of now, until lynch proves he's worth all the praise the running edge is still in the corner of the jets, but only because even if jones gets hurt, there is still washington

I have a feeling that Washington will have more of an impact on this season than most people think. Now there's a guy that can scare the living crap out of a defense when he gets his hands on the ball. Much like Parrish, all it takes is one missed tackle and forget about it. Don't know if he can hold up from a duribility standpoint to be a full time back, but make no mistake, he's very dangerous.

[OpIv37]

did you read my first post. Did you see the schedule differences?

Cleveland and Oakland for the Jets

and

SD and Baltimore for the Bills.

They get 2 of the worst teams in the league and we get 2 of the best. That's the only reason they had a better record. I mean, it's the basis for the whole point of my argument! Everything else I said was just fluff, but you still managed to floss right over it.

They had the better record because they had a WAY easier schedule. End of story.

the Jets LOST to Cleveland and had 3 more wins than us, so your argument holds no water.

If it was all about strength of schedule, then the Jets would have two more wins than us and both of those wins would be over Oakland and Cleveland. That wasn't what happened. In the end, the only advantage the schedule gave them was the ability to beat up on Oakland. That accounts for 1 game, not 3.

[Ickybaluky]

The Jets season will rely on Pennington.

If Pennington can play at a high level and sustain it, then the Jets will be a good team because they play sound overall. If Pennington is hurt or just doesn't play well, then the Jets will turn to Kellen Clemens. If Clemens plays he'll take his lumps because of inexperience and the Jets won't be a playoff contender.

They drafted Clemens and will go to him at some point, because Mangini wants his own QB. The only way Pennington holds him off is he plays so well they have no choice, like the Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers situation in San Diego.

[CuseJetsFan83]

did you read my first post. Did you see the schedule differences?

Cleveland and Oakland for the Jets

and

SD and Baltimore for the Bills.

They get 2 of the worst teams in the league and we get 2 of the best. That's the only reason they had a better record. I mean, it's the basis for the whole point of my argument! Everything else I said was just fluff, but you still managed to floss right over it.

They had the better record because they had a WAY easier schedule. End of story.

i wouldnt call that an easier schedule per se...... yeah we SHOULD have won, and we didnt beat the brownies......

see and we went 1-1 in those games where as the bills went 0-2..... adv. jets

dont forget in the NFC north the bills went 2-2 and the jets went 3-1........... detroit and chicago beat buffalo..... chicago beat nyj..... adv. jets

lets not forget about the afc south..... jets went 2-2 and the bills went 2-2 the same i believe..... push, although people will still say the jets had the titans week 1 before young became the man......

to blame the jets better record on 2 games out of divison intraconference is dumb. with that being said, its last year, its done and over with.... im excited for this year, and i would love nothing more than beating the pats at home on week 1

[Patrick76777]

the Jets LOST to Cleveland and had 3 more wins than us, so your argument holds no water.

If it was all about strength of schedule, then the Jets would have two more wins than us and both of those wins would be over Oakland and Cleveland. That wasn't what happened. In the end, the only advantage the schedule gave them was the ability to beat up on Oakland. That accounts for 1 game, not 3.


It totally holds water. we played 2 teams that were a combined 27-5! They didn't have anything close to that.

And remember, the Tennessee game. They get them in week 1, with Kerry Collins and we get them playing hot in week 16 with Vince Young.

To say that the Jets didn't get a TON of schedule breaks is insanity.

Have you ever admitted being wrong? You're getting killed on this one but you won't back down.

here, I'll help you.

"Wow Patrick, I didn't know that about the Jets schedule! That team really did get a ton of breaks last year, whereas, we seemed to get none. Perhaps the Jets weren't as good as their record indicates. Afterall, we did beat the hell out of them in New York last year when they were in the thick of the playoff race. That being said Patrick, I think they made better moves in the offseason then the Bills and I think that'll make them the better team for this season. The Bills just had too many big losses and it'll be about a year before the young guys are ready to really take control."

[Patrick76777]

to blame the jets better record on 2 games out of divison intraconference is dumb.


But my point is that the Jets are unjustly overrated based on that schedule. Hardly Dumb.

You go on and on about the other division games, but as I said in my first post, our schedule's were the same the rest of the way, so who cares.

I focused on 6 games. The 2 between the Jets and the Bills, the the Clev/Bal, Oak/SD games. Then I threw in the Tenn game for good measure.

My only point is that the Bills clearly had a much tougher road and because of this finished 3 games behind them.

[OpIv37]

It totally holds water. we played 2 teams that were a combined 27-5! They didn't have anything close to that.

And remember, the Tennessee game. They get them in week 1, with Kerry Collins and we get them playing hot in week 16 with Vince Young.

To say that the Jets didn't get a TON of schedule breaks is insanity.

Have you ever admitted being wrong? You're getting killed on this one but you won't back down.

here, I'll help you.

"Wow Patrick, I didn't know that about the Jets schedule! That team really did get a ton of breaks last year, whereas, we seemed to get none. Perhaps the Jets weren't as good as their record indicates. Afterall, we did beat the hell out of them in New York last year when they were in the thick of the playoff race. That being said Patrick, I think they made better moves in the offseason then the Bills and I think that'll make them the better team for this season. The Bills just had too many big losses and it'll be about a year before the young guys are ready to really take control."

first, it was 2 games out of 16. So how is that a "ton" of schedule breaks?

Second, they won 3 games more than we did. 3 is more than two, hence, schedule breaks could not possibly account for them being better than us on their own.

I agree with the rest of what you said- I think their off season moves are more likely to pay off immediately than ours, and because of our youth and inexperience and schedule, we're likely to get into a hole pretty early.

[Patrick76777]

first, it was 2 games out of 16. So how is that a "ton" of schedule breaks?

Second, they won 3 games more than we did. 3 is more than two, hence, schedule breaks could not possibly account for them being better than us on their own.

I agree with the rest of what you said- I think their off season moves are more likely to pay off immediately than ours, and because of our youth and inexperience and schedule, we're likely to get into a hole pretty early.


LMAO! You are on another planet.

You will go to the ends of the earth to bash the Bills but give respect to other teams at the drop of a hat. It's like you have an agenda. I can only assume that you do it on purpose to try to get everyone angry. It's the only theory that makes any sense at this point. But alas, I have no time to deal with your silly games and your lack of logic and ability to see importance in any other view besides your own. Again, you come off as being disingenuous and as someone who is just trying to raise the ire of others. And again, I have no time for it.

Good day sir.

[justasportsfan]

You will go to the ends of the earth to bash the Bills but give respect to other teams at the drop of a hat.

I have no time to deal with your silly games and your lack of logic and ability to see importance in any other view besides your own. .
:10:

[OpIv37]

LMAO! You are on another planet.

You will go to the ends of the earth to bash the Bills but give respect to other teams at the drop of a hat. It's like you have an agenda. I can only assume that you do it on purpose to try to get everyone angry. It's the only theory that makes any sense at this point. But alas, I have no time to deal with your silly games and your lack of logic and ability to see importance in any other view besides your own. Again, you come off as being disingenuous and as someone who is just trying to raise the ire of others. And again, I have no time for it.

Good day sir.

yeah that's exactly it.

Um they won more games than us- it's a fact. It's got nothing to do with me giving anyone props or putting anyone down- it's what actually happened.

it's not a lack of logic or ability to see other people's viewpoints- it's the exact opposite. I fully understand where you're coming from, but your logic just doesn't hold up. And I really don't care if you find me disingenious- half this board is open to that charge.

What do you want me to say? Did the Jets have an easier schedule? Yes. Is the schedule the reason they won 3 more games than us? No. You're twisting the facts and leaving out the portions that don't support your argument. Then you accuse me of a lack of logic? Please.

[justasportsfan]

In fairness to OP, you did call him out PAtrick.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who calls out Moran, wys and OP. they will make up stuff to make the bills look worse than they are even if it contradicts what they've said in the past or or if the facts prove otherwise.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Op in complete honesty Patrick is right on in this thread.

[North_Coast]

Well, according the GangGreen website, the Jests' OL took a hit today since the Jests traded disgruntled left guard Pete Kendall to the Deadskins for an undisclosed draft pick, meaning they have unproven Adrian Clarke and a rookie (I believe) to take his place. Neither have impressed Jests fans.

I would think it would be a stretch to now claim that the Jests' OL is better than Buffalo's.

[North_Coast]

In fairness to OP, you did call him out PAtrick.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who calls out Moran, wys and OP. they will make up stuff to make the bills look worse than they are even if contradicts what they've said in the past or or if the facts prove otherwise.

They sound like some local politicians! :biggrin:

[OpIv37]

In fairness to OP, you did call him out PAtrick.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who calls out Moran, wys and OP. they will make up stuff to make the bills look worse than they are even if it contradicts what they've said in the past or or if the facts prove otherwise.

what did I make up? The Jets lost to the Browns, the Jets had 3 wins more than we did, even Patrick said their schedule was only different by two games. I didn't make anything up- those are all facts.

[justasportsfan]

what did I make up? The Jets lost to the Browns, the Jets had 3 wins more than we did, even Patrick said their schedule was only different by two games. I didn't make anything up- those are all facts.

see my post about you saying their D is not nearly as bad as ours :rolleyes:

Let's not forget about you implying Josh Reed drops balls . :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

see my post about you saying their D is not nearly as bad as ours :rolleyes:

Let's not forget about you implying Josh Reed drops balls . :rolleyes:

We've been over the Reed thing- even if the dropped balls thing is more perception than reality, he's still an underachiever.

You refuse to acknowledge that our passing D stats were skewed by a lack of a run D and our scoring D stats didn't lead to wins because the run D was so bad other teams didn't have to rack up points to win. They just had to control the ball. Statistically, our run D was worse, even if it was only 10 yards a game worse- itwas still worse. And their D managed to get 10 wins and get in the playoffs. It's far from ideal but their D is better than ours. Deal with it.

[PECKERWOOD]

Thomas Jones is a nice back.

Pennington has a rag arm and can't make all the throws.

Tom Brady - arm strength = Chad Pennington.

It's math, ok?

[justasportsfan]

We've been over the Reed thing- even if the dropped balls thing is more perception than reality, he's still an underachiever..
backpedal. Your initial complaints was that he drops balls. After the stats were presented, you went on to whine about the other aspects of his game afte being proven wrong.


You refuse to acknowledge that our passing D stats were skewed by a lack of a run D and our scoring D stats didn't lead to wins because the run D was so bad other teams didn't have to rack up points to win. They just had to control the ball. Statistically, our run D was worse, even if it was only 10 yards a game worse- itwas still worse. And their D managed to get 10 wins and get in the playoffs. It's far from ideal but their D is better than ours. ...


We were better than them in TOTAL D. Like I said IT CAN BE ARGUED whether we are better than them but for you to make our D look really worse than it is compared to the jets, YOU'RE MAKING STUFF UP.


those are all facts...

so deal with the facts.


Deal with it.

I'm not the one miserable about the bills. I don't have to deal with anything.

[Mr. Pink]

This has to be the most assinine argument I've ever read in efforts to try and say you at 7-9 were better than a team that made the playoffs. I'm sure come week 17 the Jets felt like they were worse than us and that the Bills thought they were better than the Jets.

As pointed out...the Jets LOST to Cleveland, so that scheduling advantage, yeah it wasn't an advantage. A loss is a loss. By using two games to illustrate your point that we're as good or better is like Miami fan going, "well even though we finished behind in the standings, we beat the Bears. You didn't. So therefore, we're a better team." And yes, that's an equally absurd basis for an argument.

[duhbilz]

Here's my problem with this Op. You act as if there are only absolutes. And as the great Obi Wan Kenobi said, "Only Siths deal in absolutes".
Are you seriously quoting a fictional movie character??? Marv has said nothing to inspire you? All you could find to quote instead was a stupid movie character?? Wow!!!

[BillsFever21]

You want to talk about the two game differences as the only reason the Jets had a better record then us but they did beat New England and we haven't beat them in about 7 years.

We also lost to the Lions. They didn't. That must automatically make them a better team then? They beat a lousy team that we couldn't and they beat a great team that we haven't in about 7 years.

You record is what you are. Every single losing team in the NFL can say the same stuff and I'm sure they have fans that do. Even the Raiders had a lot of close games they "should've" or "could've" won. The fact is they didn't and we didn't. Good teams can beat good teams. Bad teams just have fans that try to make excuses for them not beating them.

[mysticsoto]

backpedal. Your initial complaints was that he drops balls. After the stats were presented, you went on to whine about the other aspects of his game afte being proven wrong.

We were better than them in TOTAL D. Like I said IT CAN BE ARGUED whether we are better than them but for you to make our D look really worse than it is compared to the jets, YOU'RE MAKING STUFF UP.

so deal with the facts.

I'm not the one miserable about the bills. I don't have to deal with anything.

C'mon Justa...Op doesn't make things up...I mean otherwise he might sit there and claim that the Jets FO and scouting dept is better than ours. Nevermind that outside of Brick and Mangold, they really haven't hit on any 1st or 2nd round drafts at all in the last 3 years or so...I mean, c'mon...Nugent in the 2nd? How did that pan out for them? No, Op would never invent something based on perception only and not facts...

/sarcasm

[mysticsoto]

On another note, it should be a quiet day...Op is in Rochester and won't have access to this site until he gets back...Who's going to bash everything and anything they see at the game tonight??? Wys? Moran? Can one of you fill in?

[Oaf]

Good posts Patrick, I never compared the schedule like that before. Just watching the two head-to-head games last year, a common person should be able to tell that we were AT LEAST on par with the Jets, if not better, much less three games WORSE as the final standings would indicate.