Does anyone have the balls..

[patmoran2006]

To admit that Vince Young is NOT OVERATED and he's a very good quarterback?

Watching him last night was a thing of beauty. This guy is a great football player.

And if you do think he's overated, then our defense is really really ****ing pathetic. Twice we played him now, and twice he's totally owned us.

He doesn't have a Farve arm. He doesn't have pinpoint Bulger accuracy. He doesn't have Michael Vick speed. but this guy is just poised, always in control and can do it all.

If he ever gets players around him that are better than an Eric Moulds or Lendale White (who looked great vs us)---- Look out league.

[ddaryl]

Vince can be a great one. He looked solid last night. I was impressed on how he was able to stand in the pocket with 2-3 Blls clamping on to him and still make a pretty pass.

I've never did join in on those conversations where others have called him a bust.

[patmoran2006]

calling him a "bust" is one of the more ignorant things I've ever seen.

This guy is a special player. He won't have the numbers of Leinart or Cutler, but he's the best QB from that class, hands down.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I still think he is overrated until he proves himself over the course of an entire season. He has the tools, but I see many stupid mistakes coming from him as well. He's certainly a beast and hard to bring down and he can make some very nice throws from time to time.... he needs consistancy to earn the reputation he already has though.

[patmoran2006]

Didnt he have a winning record as a rookie last year on a team that's simply not very good.

I mean.. Eric Moulds is his primary WR.

Compared to Losman, Young looks like he's been in this league forever.. Nothing ever seems rushed on his part.

[Bulldog]

Didnt he have a winning record as a rookie last year on a team that's simply not very good.

I mean.. Eric Moulds is his primary WR.

Compared to Losman, Young looks like he's been in this league forever.. Nothing ever seems rushed on his part.

Lets not get crazy here Pat. Youngs accuracy still leaves a lot to be desired.

[Meathead]

same thing happens every time

big qb who can run, everybody drools and proclaims him the next great thing

never mind you cant win consistently completing only half your passes, the runs keep enough ws coming that people forget

eventually one of his runs exposes his knee and it gets blown out

then he tries to be as good within the pocket and fails

even before smashing dogs heads against concrete they were thinking about benching mexico cuz he cant complete more than fitty pcent

see me again when he recovers from the eventual torn acl

groundhog day all over again

[Ingtar33]

young is like big ben.

he just does what's needed to win.

they can go a long way with him

[PECKERWOOD]

To admit that Vince Young is NOT OVERATED and he's a very good quarterback?

Watching him last night was a thing of beauty. This guy is a great football player.

And if you do think he's overated, then our defense is really really ****ing pathetic. Twice we played him now, and twice he's totally owned us.

He doesn't have a Farve arm. He doesn't have pinpoint Bulger accuracy. He doesn't have Michael Vick speed. but this guy is just poised, always in control and can do it all.

If he ever gets players around him that are better than an Eric Moulds or Lendale White (who looked great vs us)---- Look out league.

I was thinking the same thing last night. He proved why a rookie deserved the cover of Madden.

[cocamide]

I wasn't able to see the game, but from the highlights, VY passed very well. But so does every other QB when they play Buffalo. I'd say last night was a combination of VY being a decent QB and the Bills' D being less than average. We'll see how VY does passing when he takes on some good defenses.

[PECKERWOOD]

young is like big ben.

he just does what's needed to win.

they can go a long way with him

Don't think so.

Vince Young CARRIES that team and makes it happen.

Big Ben does just enough to win and lets his supporting cast carry the team more.

[blackonyx89]

young is like big ben.

he just does what's needed to win.

they can go a long way with him


More like Donavan McNabb.

[DraftBoy]

same thing happens every time

big qb who can run, everybody drools and proclaims him the next great thing

never mind you cant win consistently completing only half your passes, the runs keep enough ws coming that people forget

eventually one of his runs exposes his knee and it gets blown out

then he tries to be as good within the pocket and fails

even before smashing dogs heads against concrete they were thinking about benching mexico cuz he cant complete more than fitty pcent

see me again when he recovers from the eventual torn acl

groundhog day all over again

Cant win consistently? Vince Young's Record-8-6 -with a 6 game winning streak last season which our own QB hasn't even done.
Isnt completing half your passes? Vince Young Career Comp Pct. 51.5%

Your argument doesnt hold water in this one. Young has a long way to go, but anybody calling him a bust right now is severely mistaken.

[PECKERWOOD]

Vince Young will most likely be a hof QB at the end of his career. Been sold on him since the Texas vs. USC game. Didn't think he'd be THAT good though in the NFL.

[Night Train]

That thread saying he looked sluggish in camp looks legit now...LOL..

[Earthquake Enyart]

Pulease. I've said that Vince Young is the real deal since last year.

[DraftBoy]

Pulease. I've said that Vince Young is the real deal since last year.


He was very adamant about that fact last offseason

[Ickybaluky]

I like Young a lot. He is a very dynamic player. He was like Michael Jordan in that National Title game at Texas (vs. USC), he wouldn't let them lose.

That said, he might struggle some this year. The Titans don't have much at WR, and will probably be playing multiple TE and running a lot this year (especially when Ben Troupe gets healthy). The lack of a vertical threat is going to make tighter windows for him to throw into, and accuracy is something he has to improve on.

Last year, Young completed 51.5% of his passes. IMO, he has to get that number up closer to 60% to become a great player. I can't see that happening this year, especially with the WR corps the Titans have. However, he has everything else you want in a QB.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Vince Young wins games. Screw the stats.

[RockStar36]

I'll wait till the games count. I still don't think he is a great QB. He is a great athlete.

[losman420]

More like Donavan McNabb.Give me a break, he's no way near the quarterback Mcnabb is. even giving him the benefit of the doubt because he's so inexperienced, 3 years down the road,I think he'll just be another Vick. Ive never been impressed with a running QB, least one that runs first throws second. Now you take s.young , mcnabb, and mcnair they have all at the very least been to a superbowl, because they had pocket presence, and could run when they had to.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

I was a little taken back by all the people here saying how overrated he was yesterday. I think he is one of those QBs that won't get you all excited in a practice, but once he hits the field, look out.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I was a little taken back by all the people here saying how overrated he was yesterday. I think he is one of those QBs that won't get you all excited in a practice, but once he hits the field, look out.
I agree 100%

[Meathead]

you know you do this quite a bit. you take things said and change them slightly then make a case that theyre wrong. of course they are cuz thats not what was said

ive pointed this out before and have been ignoring it, but just for the sake of repetition and accuracy i'll do it one more time


Cant win consistently? Vince Young's Record-8-6
i said a qb with a 50% compl pcent cant win consistently. a running qb can because he makes up for the inaccuracy by getting yards with his legs. problem is a running qb always gets knee damage and loses that ability. one year does not a career make

not at all the same as what you tried to point out


Isnt completing half your passes? Vince Young Career Comp Pct. 51.5%
never said wasnt completing half. plus youre nit picking cuz a qb needs to complete at least 60% to be considered an adequately accurate passer. anything less and you cant sustain drives on his passing alone. its a fact


calling him a bust right now is severely mistaken.
never called him a bust. ever. said that he was very overrated, just like all the other running qbs that flame out after getting injured

i dont mind having it pointed out when im wrong but i dont like telling me im wrong about things i didnt say. and what i said was 100% accurate. well maybe not that hes overrated cuz thats an opinion, but the general observation about running qbs getting tons of premature props is right on

just for grins we could go ahead and make a list and ill bet you that its at least 5:1 guys who cant make the transition from running to pocket passing. at least. guys like mcnabb and mcnair and steve young are the exception but notice they didnt run much anymore after the first couple years. go ahead, just off the top of your head start listing them. we forget most of them cuz they flame out with no wheels but they are there. akili smith, ron mexico, slash, brooks, blake, blah blah blah

rushing ability from a young qb is usually fools gold. you guys can chase that stuff if you want, but i prefer to be more discerning

:rockout:

[SABURZFAN]

To admit that Vince Young is NOT OVERATED and he's a very good quarterback?

Watching him last night was a thing of beauty. This guy is a great football player.

And if you do think he's overated, then our defense is really really ****ing pathetic. Twice we played him now, and twice he's totally owned us.

He doesn't have a Farve arm. He doesn't have pinpoint Bulger accuracy. He doesn't have Michael Vick speed. but this guy is just poised, always in control and can do it all.




the kid is athletically gifted.i thought the Titans dropped the ball drafting him.after watching him in 3-4 games last year,i think Tennessee have themselves a QB who will keep them competitive.

[tat2dmike77]

We will see how he recovers from the madden cover curse injury after wk 3.

[patmoran2006]

That performance he put on against USC on that big stage was one of the top big-game performances I've ever seen in my life. Amazing.

Forget the numbers.. You could tell right there this guy had a habit for winning. You can't teach that.. You either have it or you don't.

Guys like Montana, Brady, Bradshaw and to a lesser extent Jim Kelly. They were "winners". Young is going to go down like that as well.

[GreedoII]

Go to the Titans boards and suck Youngs balls there. Not here. He is a terrible passer. All his horseshoe up his arse completions are always thrown blindly. lol he's terrible and overated. Pro Bowl with 65 qb rating LMAO. Stop watching ESPN and drinking their Kool Aid

[Mudflap1]

I didn't see the game, but from what I understand Young was just a big pain in the ass. Maybe he already is all that and a bag of chips...

Jon

[TigerJ]

Vince Young makes me wonder how necessary it is that offenses have complex systems with lots of fancy plays and lots of options. From all accounts Vince Young isn't all that cerebral. What he is is a good athlete with a good arm, strength to take a hit without going down and the agility to make people miss and then scramble effectively. He's decisive about what he does and sees the field well, and that seems to be all he needs. The question I have, and I don't have the answer, is, can teams game plan for Vince Young and take away from him the things on which he depends. Teams didn't do so well at that last season, and as everyone knows teams don't game plan for opponents in the preseason. However, assuming Vince Young is in the league for a while, maybe defensive coordinators will figure him out. I don't know.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

To admit that Vince Young is NOT OVERATED and he's a very good quarterback?

Watching him last night was a thing of beauty. This guy is a great football player.

And if you do think he's overated, then our defense is really really ****ing pathetic. Twice we played him now, and twice he's totally owned us.

He doesn't have a Farve arm. He doesn't have pinpoint Bulger accuracy. He doesn't have Michael Vick speed. but this guy is just poised, always in control and can do it all.

If he ever gets players around him that are better than an Eric Moulds or Lendale White (who looked great vs us)---- Look out league.

He is overated because he hasn't done anything yet and people are ready to annoint him. He reminds me of all of the athletes that have played the QB position. Some make the transition and some do not.

IMO, great athletes playing QB need to give up the crutch of being able to run with the ball. They need to make sure that they keep their other playmakers involved in the game. It's too early to tell about Young, but he sure looks good so far.

[DynaPaul]

I don't think Young is a bust but he'll never be one of the greats. I see him as a guy relying more on physical skills and weak in the mental aspect of being a QB. Once those skills fade he'll go the way of his predecessor, Steve McNair.

[DraftBoy]

you know you do this quite a bit. you take things said and change them slightly then make a case that theyre wrong. of course they are cuz thats not what was said

ive pointed this out before and have been ignoring it, but just for the sake of repetition and accuracy i'll do it one more time

When?



i said a qb with a 50% compl pcent cant win consistently. a running qb can because he makes up for the inaccuracy by getting yards with his legs. problem is a running qb always gets knee damage and loses that ability. one year does not a career make

not at all the same as what you tried to point out

This thread is related to Vince Young solely so anything you say it is relative to him and his career, if you want to go on a tangent about running QB's in general then by all means fork away, but since we are talking about Vince your point is wrong. He is a running QB who has a winning record and ripped 6 wins in a row for his team. If thats not winning then what is? Also is your knee injury anything you can prove? I know Vick never had knee problems, McNabb and Culpepper have had them but so have multiple RB's, WR's, LB's, and DE's. Your point essentially is that the NFL is a dangerous game, does being a running QB make your more susceptible to injuries, sure? but knee injuries? Dont think history really supports that one. Also earlier you said its hard to mold a running QB into a pocket QB though McNabb tends to defy that line of thinking though this year will be much more telling about what kind of QB he will be from now on out. I dont see anything real to defend your own point here except that you know football is a dangerous game and you dont think a running QB can become a pocket passing QB. Bc you assume that every running QB will eventually completely crush their knee. So if thats your logic thats fine but there is extremely little data to support that.



never said wasnt completing half. plus youre nit picking cuz a qb needs to complete at least 60% to be considered an adequately accurate passer. anything less and you cant sustain drives on his passing alone. its a fact
Again your trying to talk in relative terms and should of forked. I am not a mind reader and I dont care or know if you were talking about somebody other than Vince Young, only could assume you were and if you had been (which you obviously werent) then you would of been wrong. I never said VY was accurate just pointing out that if you had been talking about VY being below 50% cmp that was incorrect.


never called him a bust. ever. said that he was very overrated, just like all the other running qbs that flame out after getting injured
Not just talking to you but to the tone of the thread in general. As for your 2nd statement you continue under the assumption that all running QB's will eventually get hurt by a debilitating knee injury.



i dont mind having it pointed out when im wrong but i dont like telling me im wrong about things i didnt say. and what i said was 100% accurate. well maybe not that hes overrated cuz thats an opinion, but the general observation about running qbs getting tons of premature props is right on

just for grins we could go ahead and make a list and ill bet you that its at least 5:1 guys who cant make the transition from running to pocket passing. at least. guys like mcnabb and mcnair and steve young are the exception but notice they didnt run much anymore after the first couple years. go ahead, just off the top of your head start listing them. we forget most of them cuz they flame out with no wheels but they are there. akili smith, ron mexico, slash, brooks, blake, blah blah blah

rushing ability from a young qb is usually fools gold. you guys can chase that stuff if you want, but i prefer to be more discerning

:rockout:

No exceptions for you and Ill start;
Doug Williams
John Elway
Steve Young
Mark Brunell
Randall Cunningham
Steve McNair
Donovan Mcnabb


Thats a decent start, your counter after; Mike Vick, Slash, Brooks, Blake, Smith and Dante

Oh and just for grins like you said lets keep it to starting running QBs that have failed not some no name backups

[SABURZFAN]

Go to the Titans boards and suck Youngs balls there. Not here. He is a terrible passer. All his horseshoe up his arse completions are always thrown blindly. lol he's terrible and overated. Pro Bowl with 65 qb rating LMAO. Stop watching ESPN and drinking their Kool Aid



:rofl:


that is true but he should get better.

[Michael82]

I still think he is overrated until he proves himself over the course of an entire season. He has the tools, but I see many stupid mistakes coming from him as well. He's certainly a beast and hard to bring down and he can make some very nice throws from time to time.... he needs consistancy to earn the reputation he already has though.
:hi5:

[Michael82]

Vince Young will most likely be a hof QB at the end of his career. Been sold on him since the Texas vs. USC game. Didn't think he'd be THAT good though in the NFL.
:laughing:


This Vince "Vick" Young circle jerk has just reached the pathetic phase. I swear some of you guys really do get off watching him play. :limp: :ill:

[Michael82]

I'll wait till the games count. I still don't think he is a great QB. He is a great athlete.
Exactly! :bf1:

[Meathead]

nah you go ahead

youve already lost the point. ill let you finish the game

plus youre doing 'it' again and homey dont play dat

[DraftBoy]

nah you go ahead

youve already lost the point. ill let you finish the game

plus youre doing 'it' again and homey dont play dat


Im still waiting for the when, feel free to pm it to me, I dont like to ignore points when people make them. Im curious now. And yes I know the point of your game the same as knowing the point you were making in the Spin Zone the other day. Why do you think I posted what I did the way I did? Though it is an interesting discussion when you look at the QB position throughout history.

[BlackMetalNinja]

A. I didn't call him a bust, he hasn't had time to earn or disprove that phrase yet.

B. I said he's overrated... he is, he's getting a rediculous amount of credit and has already been annointed as something of a golden boy after a little over half a season. Let me see more before I give him all that credit.

C. Basing his NFL career off one college game is a joke... Gino Toretta and Chris Weinke were very successful, Heisman trophy winning QBs in college, and where exactly are they now.

I just think everybody is in way too much of a rush to pronounce this guy the second coming. He shows very clear and obvious flaws in his game, just as he shows some incredible playmaking ability and a great will to win. If he continues to do amazing things and somehow the Titans are a contending team in the next 2 years or so, by all means give him all the credit in the world. Until then, get off his nuts.

[DraftBoy]

A. I didn't call him a bust, he hasn't had time to earn or disprove that phrase yet.

B. I said he's overrated... he is, he's getting a rediculous amount of credit and has already been annointed as something of a golden boy after a little over half a season. Let me see more before I give him all that credit.

C. Basing his NFL career off one college game is a joke... Gino Toretta and Chris Weinke were very successful, Heisman trophy winning QBs in college, and where exactly are they now.

I just think everybody is in way too much of a rush to pronounce this guy the second coming. He shows very clear and obvious flaws in his game, just as he shows some incredible playmaking ability and a great will to win. If he continues to do amazing things and somehow the Titans are a contending team in the next 2 years or so, by all means give him all the credit in the world. Until then, get off his nuts.

A. Agree

B. Anyone who takes a team as bad as TEN and gives them a 6 game winning streak and also plays the way he did in that Rose Bowl. I remind you, that in that year, the whole entire world has already given best team ever to USC and nobody gave Texas a shot. Great game but it doesnt make a career. He deserves alot of credit not many people after getting shafted by their hometown state could of gone into TEN and played like he did. Is he a star? No, but he is a hell of a player at this point with the sky as his limit.

C. Agreed completely to base it off that one game is a crime to Vince Young whose whole body work is as impressive if not more then his Championship Game performance.

[tat2dmike77]

Here's what i don't understand. Why are some of you rushing to defend a player on a anthor team? Do you want to wow us with your knowledge of football and make us aww in all your glory of loving vince young. To me if your not on the bills then you suck. Plain and simple.

I used to like ted ginn then he got drafted by the sunfish and now i hate him. But i'm a homer that doesn't take football games to serious. After all i got other things to worry about.

[tat2dmike77]

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY id=collapseobj_usercp_reputation><TR><TD class=alt2>http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif</TD><TD class=alt1Active id=p2082574 width="50%">Does anyone have the... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2082574#post2082574)</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap>08-25-2007 02:38 PM</TD><TD class=alt1 width="50%">Wishing injury on a player is for *******s</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Don't know who left this for me and i don't care but show me in that post where i wished an injury for young? I merely stated a common fact that has happened to all the players that have graced the cover of madden. They ALL got hurt that same season and usually after week 3.

[PECKERWOOD]

you know you do this quite a bit. you take things said and change them slightly then make a case that theyre wrong. of course they are cuz thats not what was said

ive pointed this out before and have been ignoring it, but just for the sake of repetition and accuracy i'll do it one more time


i said a qb with a 50% compl pcent cant win consistently. a running qb can because he makes up for the inaccuracy by getting yards with his legs. problem is a running qb always gets knee damage and loses that ability. one year does not a career make

not at all the same as what you tried to point out


never said wasnt completing half. plus youre nit picking cuz a qb needs to complete at least 60% to be considered an adequately accurate passer. anything less and you cant sustain drives on his passing alone. its a fact


never called him a bust. ever. said that he was very overrated, just like all the other running qbs that flame out after getting injured

i dont mind having it pointed out when im wrong but i dont like telling me im wrong about things i didnt say. and what i said was 100% accurate. well maybe not that hes overrated cuz thats an opinion, but the general observation about running qbs getting tons of premature props is right on

just for grins we could go ahead and make a list and ill bet you that its at least 5:1 guys who cant make the transition from running to pocket passing. at least. guys like mcnabb and mcnair and steve young are the exception but notice they didnt run much anymore after the first couple years. go ahead, just off the top of your head start listing them. we forget most of them cuz they flame out with no wheels but they are there. akili smith, ron mexico, slash, brooks, blake, blah blah blah

rushing ability from a young qb is usually fools gold. you guys can chase that stuff if you want, but i prefer to be more discerning

:rockout:


guys like mcnabb and mcnair and steve young are the exception but notice they didnt run much anymore after the first couple years.

Guess who mentored Vince Young? Okay, here's a hint.. It rhymes with "air"!

[PECKERWOOD]

:laughing:


This Vince "Vick" Young circle jerk has just reached the pathetic phase. I swear some of you guys really do get off watching him play. :limp: :ill:

If you don't like watching Vince Young play football, then you are a pretty boring person.

[Philagape]

Here's what i don't understand. Why are some of you rushing to defend a player on a anthor team? Do you want to wow us with your knowledge of football and make us aww in all your glory of loving vince young. To me if your not on the bills then you suck. Plain and simple.

I used to like ted ginn then he got drafted by the sunfish and now i hate him. But i'm a homer that doesn't take football games to serious. After all i got other things to worry about.

The second paragraph is the answer to the first, so I'll leave it at that.

[Michael82]

If you don't like watching Vince Young play football, then you are a pretty boring person.
:lmao: