Anyone else had it with the Tampa 2?

[Buckets]

The sad thing is we have been drafting and picking up players to fit this new scheme and I don't think it's worth a s***. I am beginning to think we are screwed as far as the D goes

[Elminster]

It's only pre-season. Over the first two games, they gave up an average of 11.5 pts./game. Last I checked, that was good. Our first-string defense, IIRC, gave up 14 pts. That brings the amount of points surrendered to 12.3/game. If you want to throw in the whole total, it becomes 17 pts/game. Still not too shabby. Forget yardage. It doesn't mean anything if the opposing team doesn't score!

[Buckets]

It doesn't help our Ofense if the Defense is on the field for three quarters of the game.

[Akhippo]

Yardage is just as important. Im tired of seeing 70 yd drives from the opposition that only lead to 3 pts. It sets the wrong mindset when your telling defenders to just take it, take it, and try to stiffen at the end. You look at good teams, they have attacking D's. Tempo dictating defenses.

[Elminster]

Yardage is just as important. Im tired of seeing 70 yd drives from the opposition that only lead to 3 pts. It sets the wrong mindset when your telling defenders to just take it, take it, and try to stiffen at the end. You look at good teams, they have attacking D's. Tempo dictating defenses.
Indi's defense dictates a tempo? Most of the time, they get the tempo dictated to them, but they win. The key is the offense: it needs to step up and take pressure off the D. If the O can't score, the D can't open up and get aggressive. That's our scheme, as far as I can tell. The D is basically there to generate turn-overs and prevent the opposition from scoring touchdowns. Our D is out 3/4 of the game because our O can't stay on the field like it's supposed to...

[streetkings01]

The Tampa 2 is only as good as it's offense! If the offense cant put points on the boards quick and force the other teams O to play catchup, then the Tampa 2 pretty much sucks ass!

[Philagape]

Like all football fads, the Cover 2 has a shelf life and will be figured out, if not already. Against a power running game and/or a QB who knows how to find the seams, it's useless.

To work, it needs All-Pro personnel (Bears, Bucs) or a prolific offense (Colts)

[TacklingDummy]

Go Bills.

[Buckets]

Like all football fads, the Cover 2 has a shelf life and will be figured out, if not already. Against a power running game and/or a QB who knows how to find the seams, it's useless.

To work, it needs All-Pro personnel (Bears, Bucs) or a prolific offense (Colts)

I agree it seems like we are getting in on the tail end of efectiveness. I still like the 3-4 with blitzing LBs.

[PECKERWOOD]

I think our defense is what is going to keep the ball games close this year.
Our D > Our O.

[ddaryl]

I'm not a fan of the Tampa 2..... Bend don't break just means our D is on the field more getting tired and becoming useless by the 4th qtr when the game is on the line.

Of course the woeful tackling we saw against the Titans is a nail in the coffin of any D.

[patmoran2006]

Indi's defense dictates a tempo? Most of the time, they get the tempo dictated to them, but they win. The key is the offense: it needs to step up and take pressure off the D. If the O can't score, the D can't open up and get aggressive. That's our scheme, as far as I can tell. The D is basically there to generate turn-overs and prevent the opposition from scoring touchdowns. Our D is out 3/4 of the game because our O can't stay on the field like it's supposed to...
Indy is the one exception to the rule, because they have one of the best offenses in NFL history.

Buffalo doesnt.

[DraftBoy]

If we had another DE opposite Schobel who could play the run and the pass, and a DT worth a damn we would be much better off. We could also use two new CB's also but the biggest problem is that our DL does not have the adequate personnel to this point. Its not been ignored, it just hasnt gotten it right yet.

[John Doe]

I think the biggest weakness of our defense is not the scheme - it is the lack of experience in that scheme.

[Akhippo]

It just seems like when you have something with to many working parts its bound to break. You have to have a specific type of player. They seem to have more responsibilities. And your O has to put them in the right position.

Why cant a defense where the DTs stuff the run solely. Sacks are gravy. The ends rush the passer. Run stuffing gravy. The Backers hit whatever filters past the line. Coverage ability gravy. And the corners can play either man or zone.

When you have corners that have to play cover 2 extra well, and backers who have to be able to run 20 yds downfield to cover, and DT's who have to be able to shoot the gaps to get into the backfield, alot of things can break down and lead to big gainers.

Ditch the cover 2

[Crisis]

What great defense DOESN'T have all-pro talent?

[mchurchfie]

The Tampa 2 is only as good as it's offense! If the offense cant put points on the boards quick and force the other teams O to play catchup, then the Tampa 2 pretty much sucks ass!
I disagree. If you go back to Tampa where it originated, they had a VERY mediocre offense with Brad Johnson as QB when they won the SB. The difference is that they had a Warren Sapp in his prime and Simeon Rice with very good LBs and DBs. Their front four was good enough to stop the run and put pressure on the QB while dropping everyone else back in coverage. Buffalo wishes they had half of their talent from then.

[PECKERWOOD]

What great defense DOESN'T have all-pro talent?

And

What great defense doesn't have all-pro talent on the defensive line?

Seymour, Wilfork and Warren

Gregg, Ngata and Suggs

Stroud, Henderson

Could go on and on. We only got one star on our DL. Thank God the Bills resigned him.

[mchurchfie]

And

We only got one star on our DL. Thank God the Bills resigned him.
And he is one dimensional, a great pash-rusher and thats it.:ill:

[PECKERWOOD]

And he is one dimensional, a great pash-rusher and thats it.:ill:

He fits the Tampa 2 beautifully though. Now if we were running a 3-4, I'd be scared. The Bills just need to add a couple DT/DE hybrids into the mix. We need someone who can penetrate and hold the line.

[Philagape]

What great defense DOESN'T have all-pro talent?

And that making all schemes equal, I'd prefer one that wasn't so vulnerable to the run.

[Crisis]

And that making all schemes equal, I'd prefer one that wasn't so vulnerable to the run.

Like Minnesota and Chicago?

[PECKERWOOD]

And that making all schemes equal, I'd prefer one that wasn't so vulnerable to the run.

We don't have all the personnel yet.

[Night Train]

I still don't see the problem with sticking 2 huge DT's in the middle. That's what's killing the D.

[Philagape]

Like Minnesota and Chicago?

Since they have All-Pro caliber personnel, no we're nothing like them. I said that's what it takes to work.

[Philagape]

We don't have all the personnel yet.

How long will it take to assemble and develop a better DT rotation and get a pass rush from both sides? Marv has done that ... The entire defensive line has signed/extended their contracts under Levy, so he's gotten his personnel.

[Crisis]

Since they have All-Pro caliber personnel, no we're nothing like them. I said that's what it takes to work.

Isn't that what it takes for ANY defense to work? GOOD players?

[Philagape]

Isn't that what it takes for ANY defense to work? GOOD players?

What I'm saying is, since we don't have the talent, I'd rather not have the Cover 2, because without the talent, it can't stop the run.

[BillsPride12]

I personally would love to a 4-3 defense that just beats teams up. I always said we were one great DE away from having the best d-line in the NFL a few years back when we had Big Pat and Sam in the middle and Schobol would be an amazing complement at DE if we could have brought in a monster, that would be an amazing line...I know wishful thinking on that one. To me an ideal Defensive line should have two beats clogging the middle and stopping the run and then the pass rushing created by the ends, yeah I know you still need to have great talent to perfect that situation as well but I just like that philosophy alot more than having these small, penetrating qb's who never seem to get to the qb anyways and just get gashed by rb's.

[Crisis]

What I'm saying is, since we don't have the talent, I'd rather not have the Cover 2, because without the talent, it can't stop the run.

...

Isn't that true for every defense, no matter the scheme?

[Crisis]

I personally would love to a 4-3 defense that just beats teams up. I always said we were one great DE away from having the best d-line in the NFL a few years back when we had Big Pat and Sam in the middle and Schobol would be an amazing complement at DE if we could have brought in a monster, that would be an amazing line...I know wishful thinking on that one. To me an ideal Defensive line should have two beats clogging the middle and stopping the run and then the pass rushing created by the ends, yeah I know you still need to have great talent to perfect that situation as well but I just like that philosophy alot more than having these small, penetrating qb's who never seem to get to the qb anyways and just get gashed by rb's.
We do run a 4-3.

[BillsPride12]

lol my bad, I forgot to type in standard. I know we line-up in a 4-3 but my point was referring to the defensive line scheme of run stuffers v.s. gap penetrating defensive tackles, sorry.

[Typ0]

no worries...we're in perpetual rebuilding mode.

[Philagape]

...

Isn't that true for every defense, no matter the scheme?

ALL OTHER FACTORS EQUAL, the Cover 2 is more vulnerable to the run

[Crisis]

ALL OTHER FACTORS EQUAL, the Cover 2 is more vulnerable to the run
And this is based off what?

[Philagape]

And this is based off what?

Common sense? Linebackers and safeties playing back, lighter DTs that can be overpowered. The Cover 2 is designed to defend the pass and cause turnovers. It can stop the run only if the linemen are good enough to shoot gaps or chase down the ballcarrier.