You All Were So Right About The Tampa 2

[gr8slayer]

Did you see how the Saints just annihilated that Colts Defense last night? I mean, Drew Brees had a field day and Reggie should be MVP after that game. Damn the Tampa 2 to hell!

Amazing how good it works when you have the right people playing the right positions.

[Wally The Barber]

Did you see how the Saints just annihilated that Colts Defense last night? I mean, Drew Brees had a field day and Reggie should be MVP after that game. Damn the Tampa 2 to hell!

Amazing how good it works when you have the right people playing the right positions.

That was a terrible example of how it is suppose to work!:monkeyp:

[duhbilz]

Did you see how the Saints just annihilated that Colts Defense last night? I mean, Drew Brees had a field day and Reggie should be MVP after that game. Damn the Tampa 2 to hell!

Amazing how good it works when you have the right people playing the right positions.

You use one game as an example?? How bout the fact that for most of last year the Colts had the worst defense in the league?

[gr8slayer]

You use one game as an example?? How bout the fact that for most of last year the Colts had the worst defense in the league?
how about the fact that its worked since the playoffs started last year

[FinFaninBuffalo]

You use one game as an example?? How bout the fact that for most of last year the Colts had the worst defense in the league?

Two teams have won the SB with that defense.

[MikeInRoch]

You use one game as an example?? How bout the fact that for most of last year the Colts had the worst defense in the league?

It was only bad when Sanders was out....

[streetkings01]

You also fail to mention that the Tamp2 works great when you have an offense that can score points in a hurry in bunches!

[Mahdi]

You also fail to mention that the Tamp2 works great when you have an offense that can score points in a hurry in bunches!
I think Tampa Bay would disagree with you on that assumption.

[EDS]

Did you see how the Saints just annihilated that Colts Defense last night? I mean, Drew Brees had a field day and Reggie should be MVP after that game. Damn the Tampa 2 to hell!

Amazing how good it works when you have the right people playing the right positions.

Doesn't hurt having one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time forcing the other team into passing situations early either.

[evol4276]

*cough* Sanders *cough*

[duhbilz]

You also fail to mention that the Tamp2 works great when you have an offense that can score points in a hurry in bunches!

Yeah, the Tampa 2 worked one season in Tampa....look at them now. As for the Colts you could use a Defense full of girls the entire year an it wouldn't matter cause that offense will just score a TD in 70% of the possesions. The Colts Defense was a joke most of last year last in the league, yet they still win 80% of their games. Obviously the Tampa 2 works for them cause they have an offense that can't be stopped.

[OpIv37]

Amazing how good it works when you have the right people playing the right positions.

That's been my point all along- we don't have anywhere close to the right people and it's a D that only works with the perfect personnel. It also relied off of turnovers, which is tough to do consistently.

[BidsJr]

Bob Sanders is a stud.

Kirk Ferentz said this when he arrived on campus as an under-recruited true freshman.

"It was like being in a street fight and having your big brother show up."

[Wys Guy]

Amazing how good it works when you have the right people playing the right positions.

Isn't it!

Now, connect the dots between the chasm that exists between the Wilson/Donadope/Levy era Bills, and the Polian era Bills and Colts that have been to the playoffs almost every year vice the complete opposite for us.

Let us all know what you come up with.

;)

[HHURRICANE]

Can we agree that Indy's D is alot better talent wise than ours?

[Mitchy moo]

Can we agree that Indy's D is alot better talent wise than ours?

The reality of it is NO was forced into passing to try to make up points, which obviously plays into the Tampa 2. If JP and the boys can score, our D will look better as well.

[madness]

Dungy's D was on display last night. How many new starters does their D have this year?

So much for the Tampa 2 needing superstars at every postion.

[OpIv37]

Dungy's D was on display last night. How many new starters does their D have this year?

So much for the Tampa 2 needing superstars at every postion.

maybe not superstars, but we have to do better than Larry Tripplett, Tim Anderson, Eric Powell, Jason Webster.....

[evol4276]

maybe not superstars, but we have to do better than Larry Tripplett, Tim Anderson, Eric Powell, Jason Webster..... powell and anderson arent starting tho

[THATHURMANATOR]

maybe not superstars, but we have to do better than Larry Tripplett, Tim Anderson, Eric Powell, Jason Webster.....
Why do you bring up Anderson and Powell as they are backups? I agree with Webster and I don't see him starting for very long.

[OpIv37]

powell and anderson arent starting tho

no, but they'll be getting plenty of playing time because of the rotation.

[OpIv37]

Why do you bring up Anderson and Powell as they are backups? I agree with Webster and I don't see him starting for very long.

see my other post- with the rotation, they're on the field a lot.

[madness]

Why do you bring up Anderson and Powell as they are backups? I agree with Webster and I don't see him starting for very long.

To add more emphasis on his point. That's just how he do.

I agree about Webster though, AY needs to crack this lineup fast. Whitner also better be watching film of Sanders all day, every day.

[OpIv37]

To add more emphasis on his point. That's just how he do.

I agree about Webster though, AY needs to crack this lineup fast. Whitner also better be watching film of Sanders all day, every day.

if you think you don't have to worry about Anderson and Powell being on the field, you're just wrong. We run a rotation on the DL.

[OpIv37]

oh btw, just because having some new starters worked for the Colts does NOT mean it will work for us. Proving that a possibility exists does NOT make that possibility more likely to occur and does NOT make our D any better.

[madness]

if you think you don't have to worry about Anderson and Powell being on the field, you're just wrong. We run a rotation on the DL.

We have to deal with Powell only because of Hargrove and Denney.

Timmy just might surprise some of us this year. He's back up to his original weight and had a decent preseason because of it. Better then 'crap' is definitely an improvement in his case.

[jdbillsfan]

Yeah, the Tampa 2 worked one season in Tampa....look at them now. As for the Colts you could use a Defense full of girls the entire year an it wouldn't matter cause that offense will just score a TD in 70% of the possesions. The Colts Defense was a joke most of last year last in the league, yet they still win 80% of their games. Obviously the Tampa 2 works for them cause they have an offense that can't be stopped.


Chicago's D is pretty good too. Do they have an offense that can't be stopped?

[madness]

Chicago's D is pretty good too. Do they have an offense that can't be stopped?

They're pretty good but, I don't know if they can equal the Colts output in the first half.

[OpIv37]

Chicago's D is pretty good too. Do they have an offense that can't be stopped?

No, they just have much better players on D than Indy or us.

The cover 2 works in Indy because the offense can control the ball and force teams to pass, which plays into the strength of the D (and now it seems like they may have the personnel right too).

The cover 2 works in Chicago because they have the perfect personnel (or at least they did before the Tank fiasco).

Buffalo has... neither. It was a mistake to implement this D and a failure to not get the proper personnel for the DL when the defensive philosophy depends so much on it.

[EDS]

Chicago's D is pretty good too. Do they have an offense that can't be stopped?

The difference with Chicago is that they do have stars across the board on that defense - Uhrlacher, Harris, A-Gun, etc.

Same was true for Tampa when they won the Super Bowl, they were stocked with all-pros - Sapp, Brooks, Lynch, Barber, etc.

[Mahdi]

if you think you don't have to worry about Anderson and Powell being on the field, you're just wrong. We run a rotation on the DL.
What do you know about Powell that no one else does? Has he even played? Who the heck is Josh Thomas? Hes just a rotational player in the Colts D, that has been in the system a couple years now and can play here and there to give Mathis a breather, he doesnt rack up sacks he doesnt apply constant pressure when he is out there but he contributes enough to play in a rotation... So why cant Powell do the same? We know Hargrove can as well as Denney.

[Nasty Mcgahee]

Doesn't hurt having one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time forcing the other team into passing situations early either. The score was 10-10 at halftime. The Saints weren't forced to do anything out of there game plan until the second half. They had plenty of chances in the first half, Indy's D prevailed.

[mysticsoto]

No, they just have much better players on D than Indy or us.

The cover 2 works in Indy because the offense can control the ball and force teams to pass, which plays into the strength of the D (and now it seems like they may have the personnel right too).

The cover 2 works in Chicago because they have the perfect personnel (or at least they did before the Tank fiasco).

Buffalo has... neither. It was a mistake to implement this D and a failure to not get the proper personnel for the DL when the defensive philosophy depends so much on it.

Op, neither the Colts, Tampa or Bears were instant success stories when they moved to the Cover 2. They gradually got the correct personnel for it...

[OpIv37]

What do you know about Powell that no one else does? Has he even played? Who the heck is Josh Thomas? Hes just a rotational player in the Colts D, that has been in the system a couple years now and can play here and there to give Mathis a breather, he doesnt rack up sacks he doesnt apply constant pressure when he is out there but he contributes enough to play in a rotation... So why cant Powell do the same? We know Hargrove can as well as Denney.

I see- so you can say our LB's are better than the Colts without even seeing them play but I can't do the same for Powell? If the guy was any good, why was he so far down the depth chart in the first place? There's a REASON he was below Denny and Hargrove- I don't know why so many people around here think any back up can move up the depth chart with no consequences just because it happened once in New England.

[OpIv37]

Op, neither the Colts, Tampa or Bears were instant success stories when they moved to the Cover 2. They gradually got the correct personnel for it...

that means several things- first, if they pick the right players, it still means a lot more struggles before we get it right. Second, if they don't pick the right players... well I don't even want to think about that. Third, in the age of the salary cap and FA, the window of time to put a team together is much smaller. Indy was lucky enough to have a powerful offense to help them coast while they got the D together. Chicago and Tampa got the D together but had to fight through a mediocre offense for that entire period.

[justasportsfan]

how about the fact that its worked since the playoffs started last year


:lolpoint: DUHbilz

[justasportsfan]

that means several things- first, if they pick the right players, it still means a lot more struggles before we get it right. . you're only getting it now?

[OpIv37]

you're only getting it now?

no- if it took the Colts, Bears and Bucs years to get it together, I'm wondering why I'm getting such a huge response for saying we're going to continue to struggle. I'm predicting the most likely outcome- that we will suck on D- and everyone's flipping out about it. I just don't get it.

[raphael120]

you're only getting it now?

The point is, how long as Ralph been getting it wrong?

The bottom line to every single agruement on this damn board is...

ITS BEEN 7 FRIGGIN YEARS, MAN! We're the only team in the AFC with that long a playoff drought!

Everyone is TIRED of WAITING!

We're TIRED of REBUILDING, TIRED of growing pains!

We just want a good damn team! Can't fault Bills fans for that!

[justasportsfan]

no- if it took the Colts, Bears and Bucs years to get it together, I'm wondering why I'm getting such a huge response for saying we're going to continue to struggle. I'm predicting the most likely outcome- that we will suck on D- and everyone's flipping out about it. I just don't get it.
not really. You're getting crap because the bills can't do anything right. Anything good that happens to other teams can't happen with the bills. That's always been your MO.

Someone get's excited, you shoot them down.

[OpIv37]

The point is, how long as Ralph been getting it wrong?

The bottom line to every single agruement on this damn board is...

ITS BEEN 7 FRIGGIN YEARS, MAN! We're the only team in the AFC with that long a playoff drought!

Everyone is TIRED of WAITING!

We're TIRED of REBUILDING, TIRED of growing pains!

We just want a good damn team! Can't fault Bills fans for that!

sure you can. The first 6 don't count because Marv wasn't here. The second we signed Marv as GM, it was like those years never happened. You, me and the rest of us thought we watched our team struggle for six years with a coaching carousel and a QB carousel, but we actually didn't. Everything we thought happened to the Buffalo Bills between the Music City Mirage and late January 2006 never actually happened.

[jdbillsfan]

No, they just have much better players on D than Indy or us.

The cover 2 works in Indy because the offense can control the ball and force teams to pass, which plays into the strength of the D (and now it seems like they may have the personnel right too).

The cover 2 works in Chicago because they have the perfect personnel (or at least they did before the Tank fiasco).

Buffalo has... neither. It was a mistake to implement this D and a failure to not get the proper personnel for the DL when the defensive philosophy depends so much on it.

So it's not about the system, it's about the players. So quit complaining about the Cover 2.

We don't have all the players, yet obviously and it is a process, but it does work.

The Colts D basically shut out the saints. That isn't all because they have a good Offense or Great players on Defense. They have the right guys now and it works.

Didn't happen overnight either.

[justasportsfan]

The point is, how long as Ralph been getting it wrong

The bottom line to every single agruement on this damn board is...

ITS BEEN 7 FRIGGIN YEARS, MAN! We're the only team in the AFC with that long a playoff drought!

Everyone is TIRED of WAITING!

We're TIRED of REBUILDING, TIRED of growing pains!

We just want a good damn team! Can't fault Bills fans for that!

blah,blah,blah. So did you accept my friendly wager that Price will make a catch?

[justasportsfan]

sure you can. The first 6 don't count because Marv wasn't here. The second we signed Marv as GM, it was like those years never happened. You, me and the rest of us thought we watched our team struggle for six years with a coaching carousel and a QB carousel, but we actually didn't. Everything we thought happened to the Buffalo Bills between the Music City Mirage and late January 2006 never actually happened.
why stop there, let's just blame MArv for the 70's. :roflmao:

[OpIv37]

So it's not about the system, it's about the players. So quit complaining about the Cover 2.

We don't have all the players, yet obviously and it is a process, but it does work.

The Colts D basically shut out the saints. That isn't all because they have a good Offense or Great players on Defense. They have the right guys now and it works.

Didn't happen overnight either.

It is about the system- what good is a system if it only works with the PERFECT players? It puts too much pressure on the FO which has to operate under the constraints of the salary cap and FA. It's a process that takes too long for the modern league. We don't have Indy's offense to coast on in the meantime.

[OpIv37]

why stop there, let's just blame MArv for the 70's. :roflmao:

wanting to win is not the same as blaming Marv. It's another distinction that you fail to comprehend.

[Philagape]

Marv and Dick should have been fired last year. They didn't make the playoffs. And every year from now on, let's give the new coach and GM one season to turn it around, because after all, IT'S BEEN SEVEN YEARS!!! Playoffs now or fired!! We want a winner NOW!!! We can't take it anymore!!!!! Whoa is us!!! WAAAAHHHHHHH!!! SEVEN YYYEEEEEAAAAAAARRRRRRRRS!! :hang:

[HAMMER]

Waaaaaaaah, what a whiney little beeotch.

[Mitchy moo]

wanting to win is not the same as blaming Marv. It's another distinction that you fail to comprehend.

You bringing up factors beyond Marv's control, it really makes no sense.

[OpIv37]

Marv and Dick should have been fired last year. They didn't make the playoffs. And every year from now on, let's give the new coach and GM one season to turn it around, because after all, IT'S BEEN SEVEN YEARS!!! Playoffs now or fired!! We want a winner NOW!!! We can't take it anymore!!!!! Whoa is us!!! WAAAAHHHHHHH!!! SEVEN YYYEEEEEAAAAAAARRRRRRRRS!! :hang:

my bad, 7 years of losing is perfectly acceptable. I mean, why should fans care if their team wins? How silly of me.

[Mahdi]

I see- so you can say our LB's are better than the Colts without even seeing them play but I can't do the same for Powell? If the guy was any good, why was he so far down the depth chart in the first place? There's a REASON he was below Denny and Hargrove- I don't know why so many people around here think any back up can move up the depth chart with no consequences just because it happened once in New England.
First of all I didnt say our LBs were BETTER... I said upside... and it was because of upside that I gave the advantage to Crow and Poz over Brackett and Morris... Also the fact that our guys are faster. They are just mentally slower right now.

Powell is low on the depth chart because we have Denney and Hargrove who are playing well. With them out Powell has a chance to show what he can do. All im saying is the Indi back-ups are nothing special either. Our back-ups are much better, im sure we can agree that Denney and Hargrove are better than Josh Thomas and Jeff Charleston.

[OpIv37]

But bringing up factors beyond Marv's control makes no sense.

huh?

The fact that it wasn't Marv's fault does NOT in any way alleviate the frustration of 7 years of sucking. At what point do we have fans get to say "enough is enough- it's time to win"? Instead it's "be patient- it takes time to rebuild". I'm ****ing sick of being patient.

[Mitchy moo]

First of all I didnt say our LBs were BETTER... I said upside... and it was because of upside that I gave the advantage to Crow and Poz over Brackett and Morris... Also the fact that our guys are faster. They are just mentally slower right now.

Powell is low on the depth chart because we have Denney and Hargrove who are playing well. With them out Powell has a chance to show what he can do. All im saying is the Indi back-ups are nothing special either. Our back-ups are much better, im sure we can agree that Denney and Hargrove are better than Josh Thomas and Jeff Charleston.

If your looking for something for OP to actually say something positive, your barking up the wrong tree. "WE'RE DOOMED"

[Philagape]

my bad, 7 years of losing is perfectly acceptable. I mean, why should fans care if their team wins? How silly of me.

Yup, the extremes are the only two options. Either we're emotional basket cases and drama queens and want all decisions to be based on our frustrations, or we love losing. No other way.

[raphael120]

not really. You're getting crap because the bills can't do anything right. Anything good that happens to other teams can't happen with the bills. That's always been your MO.

Someone get's excited, you shoot them down.

Im tired of being excited over possiblities. I'm tired of being excited about what another team did that our team SHOULD do. I'll be excited when I see OUR team, not the COLTS, shut down an offense like the Colts D did, and ILL be EXCITED when OUR team scores 41 points. Until then, Im not letting what a Super Bowl team did excite me even more. Im excited in general, but not once did I think to myself "Hey, we could be the Colts!" It's stupid. We're the Bills. The Colts has a winning tradition in the past 8 years, we have had a losing tradition. Can this be the turn around? Sure. But I'm not going to set high expectations that match Colts accomplishments. It's dumb.

[Mitchy moo]

huh?

The fact that it wasn't Marv's fault does NOT in any way alleviate the frustration of 7 years of sucking. At what point do we have fans get to say "enough is enough- it's time to win"? Instead it's "be patient- it takes time to rebuild". I'm ****ing sick of being patient.

I just want your 30K post to be repyling in a positive fashion, say something positive and turn the corner.

I cannot blame Marv for us sucking at anytime he wasn't here, it's not his fault. He brought the best of times here we have had and hopefully brings them back again.

[jdbillsfan]

It is about the system- what good is a system if it only works with the PERFECT players? It puts too much pressure on the FO which has to operate under the constraints of the salary cap and FA. It's a process that takes too long for the modern league. We don't have Indy's offense to coast on in the meantime.

They don't need perfect players, they just need to improve on the talent they have now.

No matter what Defense they are playing, you still need some talent.

[Mitchy moo]

Im tired of being excited over possiblities. I'm tired of being excited about what another team did that our team SHOULD do. I'll be excited when I see OUR team, not the COLTS, shut down an offense like the Colts D did, and ILL be EXCITED when OUR team scores 41 points. Until then, Im not letting what a Super Bowl team did excite me even more. Im excited in general, but not once did I think to myself "Hey, we could be the Colts!" It's stupid. We're the Bills. The Colts has a winning tradition in the past 8 years, we have had a losing tradition. Can this be the turn around? Sure. But I'm not going to set high expectations that match Colts accomplishments. It's dumb.

Self defense mechanisms in play, expect to lose and you yourself cannot lose.

[OpIv37]

First of all I didnt say our LBs were BETTER... I said upside... and it was because of upside that I gave the advantage to Crow and Poz over Brackett and Morris... Also the fact that our guys are faster. They are just mentally slower right now.

Powell is low on the depth chart because we have Denney and Hargrove who are playing well. With them out Powell has a chance to show what he can do. All im saying is the Indi back-ups are nothing special either. Our back-ups are much better, im sure we can agree that Denney and Hargrove are better than Josh Thomas and Jeff Charleston.

but an upside is just potential- that's all. It's nothing tangible and it hasn't produced any results- so to give our LB's the advantage over the Colts after the Colts won the SB and dominated a great offense last night is just ridiculous. If you have $2000 in cash and I have $1500 in stocks, I can't say my $1500 is better because it has the potential to be more than $2000 if the market goes up. The $1500 in stocks isn't better until the market actually goes up, and there is still a chance it could go down.

Our back ups in Denney and Hargrove may be better, but we might be 0-4 before they see the field.

[OpIv37]

Self defense mechanisms in play, expect to lose and you yourself cannot lose.

lmao- you're the LAST person who should call anyone out on self defense mechanisms.

[Mitchy moo]

but an upside is just potential- that's all. It's nothing tangible and it hasn't produced any results- so to give our LB's the advantage over the Colts after the Colts won the SB and dominated a great offense last night is just ridiculous. If you have $2000 in cash and I have $1500 in stocks, I can't say my $1500 is better because it has the potential to be more than $2000 if the market goes up. The $1500 in stocks isn't better until the market actually goes up, and there is still a chance it could go down.

Our back ups in Denney and Hargrove may be better, but we might be 0-4 before they see the field.

Hard numbers like that do not equate to people. Math is a unchangeable and has no variables, humans do.

[OpIv37]

I just want your 30K post to be repyling in a positive fashion, say something positive and turn the corner.

I cannot blame Marv for us sucking at anytime he wasn't here, it's not his fault. He brought the best of times here we have had and hopefully brings them back again.

It doesn't matter if it's his fault or not- we can't just pretend it never happened.

I'll say something positive when this team does something to deserve a positive comment, like, I don't know, maybe WIN. It would be a nice change of pace....

[Mitchy moo]

lmao- you're the LAST person who should call anyone out on self defense mechanisms.


<TABLE class=tborder id=post2100241 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 width=175>OpIv37 (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=346) <!-- v3 Arcade -->http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/arcade/trophy.gif (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php?u=346) <!-- /v3 Arcade --><SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_2100241", true); </SCRIPT>
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<HR style="COLOR: #f3f3ff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message --><!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Skooby
Self defense mechanisms in play, expect to lose and you yourself cannot lose.
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lmao- you're the LAST person who should call anyone out on self defense mechanisms.
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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10px; WIDTH: 35%" align=left>Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Northern VA/DC
Posts: 30,000


etched in stone now, 30K post.
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[justasportsfan]

Im tired of being excited over possiblities. I'm tired of being excited about what another team did that our team SHOULD do. I'll be excited when I see OUR team, not the COLTS, shut down an offense like the Colts D did, and ILL be EXCITED when OUR team scores 41 points. Until then, Im not letting what a Super Bowl team did excite me even more. Im excited in general, but not once did I think to myself "Hey, we could be the Colts!" It's stupid. We're the Bills. The Colts has a winning tradition in the past 8 years, we have had a losing tradition. Can this be the turn around? Sure. But I'm not going to set high expectations that match Colts accomplishments. It's dumb.
1) first of all I wasn't talking to you. 2) I don't give a rats ass if you are miserable about the bills. If it bothers you that much, stop watching 3) I'm excited about the bills win or lose and ya'll can :kissa: if you hate the fact that we're excited about the new season and the bills

4)why are you ignoring this.
blah,blah,blah. So did you accept my friendly wager that Price will make a catch?. You obviously pulled that comment out of your arse just like majority of your posts

[OpIv37]

Hard numbers like that do not equate to people. Math is a unchangeable and has no variables, humans do.

this post is just plain stupid.

The example utilized the stock market, which has hundreds of variables.

But the point is that Mahdi is trying to compare potential to results and it can't be done.

[Mitchy moo]

\

I'll say something positive when this team does something to deserve a positive comment, like, I don't know, maybe WIN. It would be a nice change of pace....


:cheers:

[Mitchy moo]

this post is just plain stupid.

The example utilized the stock market, which has hundreds of variables.

But the point is that Mahdi is trying to compare potential to results and it can't be done.

You used hard numbers, $2000 / $1,500 to show a lesser value. How can that change??

[mybills]

So OpIv, from what you're saying, the Colts D has amazing players. Does that mean the Saints don't?

[OpIv37]

So OpIv, from what you're saying, the Colts D has amazing players. Does that mean the Saints don't?

I never said the Colts D had amazing players- I said they had better players than the Bills and players who fit the scheme well.

[justasportsfan]

So OpIv, from what you're saying, the Colts D has amazing players. Does that mean the Saints don't?


what he was saying is that

1)HE WAS WRONG! He said that replacing proven players with rookies or unproven players isn't likely to do anything especially against last years no. 1 offense.(he really didn't say that exactly but that was his battle cry all offseason long) Not gonna happen. Oh wait. The saints got owned.

or....

2) what hapened to the colts D cannot happen to the bills. We suck. We can't do anything right.

[OpIv37]

You used hard numbers, $2000 / $1,500 to show a lesser value. How can that change??

$1500 in STOCKS. The value of stocks changes frequently.

And if you want to get technical, the value of cash changes too with inflation, exchange rates, etc.

[justasportsfan]

I never said the Colts D had amazing players- I said they had better players than the Bills and players who fit the scheme well.

you know this how? Have we played a game yet? Where are your facts?

I forget , you know better than our coaches. :roflmao:

[OpIv37]

what he was saying is that

1)HE WAS WRONG! He said that replacing proven players with rookies or unproven players isn't likely to do anything especially against last years no. 1 offense.(he really didn't say that exactly but that was his battle cry all offseason long) Not gonna happen. Oh wait. The saints got owned.

or....

2) what hapened to the colts D cannot happen to the bills. We suck. We can't do anything right.


Please tell me how the Colts getting contributions from young guys in any way proves or suggests the Bills can do the same thing. It doesn't. The Bills are NOT the Colts. Your analogy does not account for the experience level or the talent level of the Bills- the Colts doing something does NOT make the Bills D any better.

[OpIv37]

you know this how? Have we played a game yet? Where are your facts?

I forget , you know better than our coaches. :roflmao:

why do you continue to act like no one has EVER seen anyone on our D play before. WE'VE SEEN THESE GUYS PLAY! Get it through your head- there is a basis for comparison whether you want to believe it or not.

And what the coaches know vs what I know doesn't make the players any better once they hit the field.

[mybills]

I never said the Colts D had amazing players- I said they had better players than the Bills and players who fit the scheme well.
Sorry for saying that you said they were amazing.
So let me put it this way...
If the Colts have better, more scheme fitting players than the Bills, does that mean the Saints are worse or better than us?

[Mitchy moo]

why do you continue to act like no one has EVER seen anyone on our D play before. WE'VE SEEN THESE GUYS PLAY! Get it through your head- there is a basis for comparison whether you want to believe it or not.

And what the coaches know vs what I know doesn't make the players any better once they hit the field.

So people never get any better or more familiar with a system?? People cannot improve their performance?? Get Better??

In Op's mind, there is no room for improvement and how they played last year and during the meaningless pre-season is how they are going to play.

[justasportsfan]

Please tell me how the Colts getting contributions from young guys in any way proves or suggests the Bills can do the same thing. .:roflmao:

typical. Thanks for proving my point. Any team can do it but we can't. Throw in Whitner and Ko as proof that they can do better than milloy and Vincent then he throws in some other excuse.

You're a bills hater OP whether you realize it or not. Anyone in the league can but but the bills cannot .

[justasportsfan]

why do you continue to act like no one has EVER seen anyone on our D play before. WE'VE SEEN THESE GUYS PLAY! Get it through your head- there is a basis for comparison whether you want to believe it or not.

And what the coaches know vs what I know doesn't make the players any better once they hit the field.
I've seen the D play before. They weren't as bad as the colts D . But the colts can get better and we can't?

Fact, the colts D was worse than ours and FACT they ***** slapped the saints no. 1 from last year.

So where are your bills fact? You don't have any. You only have an opinion that the bills will continue to suck. You may be right but at this point , YOU HAVE NOTHING other than their rookies are better than ours with NO FACTS.

[Mitchy moo]

;roflmao:

typical. Thanks for proving my point. Any team can do it but we can't. Throw in Whitner and Ko as proof that they can do better than milloy and Vincent then he throws in some other excuse.

You're a bills hater OP whether you realize it or not. Anyone in the league can but but the bills cannot .

Fear of success vs fear of failure, sad sad way to look at football.

[OpIv37]

Sorry for saying that you said they were amazing.
So let me put it this way...
If the Colts have better, more scheme fitting players than the Bills, does that mean the Saints are worse or better than us?

it means the Saints will do better against our D than they did against the Colts D, like in pre-season when they pushed our starters all over the field and had the ball for 11 minutes in the first quarter. And don't give me the "bend but don't break" BS- our starters yielded 2 FG's to their O in about a quarter and a half. The Colts only yielded 1 FG in the entire game, even when playing prevent at the end.

[OpIv37]

I've seen the D play before. They weren't as bad as the colts D . But the colts can get better and we can't?

Fact, the colts D was worse than ours and FACT they ***** slapped the saints no. 1 from last year.

So where are your bills fact? You don't have any. You only have an opinion that the bills will continue to suck. You may be right but at this point , YOU HAVE NOTHING other than their rookies are better than ours with NO FACTS.

Actually, their play last year was sucky. Their play in pre season was sucky. They have no experience.

So you can call it opinion all you want, but the fact is you're hoping for a bunch of guys to do things they've never proven they can do. You're hoping for a bunch of guys to suddenly play better than they've ever played before. And it's unrealistic.

[mybills]

Good thing we're not playing them this year. :up:

[justasportsfan]

Fear of success vs fear of failure, sad sad way to look at football.
yeah I feel sorry for you. Instead of waiting for them to play, just say THEY WILL SUCK and if they suck "I told you so " but if you're wonrg ... "I'd rather be wrong"..

Give me a break. Bills hater.

[OpIv37]

:roflmao:

typical. Thanks for proving my point. Any team can do it but we can't. Throw in Whitner and Ko as proof that they can do better than milloy and Vincent then he throws in some other excuse.

You're a bills hater OP whether you realize it or not. Anyone in the league can but but the bills cannot .

I never said anyone in the league could do it- ONE team did it ONCE. that proves NOTHING about the Bills and it does NOT account for the talent on the Bills roster or anything else specific to the Bills.

I watched the players suck all pre season long, and suddenly the fact that the Colts played well somehow changes that? WTF? There is no logical connection there.

[justasportsfan]

Actually, their play last year was sucky. Their play in pre season was sucky. They have no experience.

So you can call it opinion all you want, but the fact is you're hoping for a bunch of guys to do things they've never proven they can do. You're hoping for a bunch of guys to suddenly play better than they've ever played before. And it's unrealistic.


where are your facts that their rookies are better than ours when you have nothing . We haven't played yet. Again, sidestep the Whitner example all you want. THEY PROVED YOU WRONG! SWALLOW IT>

Comparing preseason with regular season is pure stupidity. It's amazing that your logic that rookies replacing proven players won't produce success changes with "oh well their rookies are better " or " they draftee the right players ,we didn't" just because you saw the game . You didn't make that assumption of the colts until after you saw last nights game.

the colts PROVED YOUR LOGIC WRONG!

[OpIv37]

where are your facts that their rookies are better than ours when you have nothing . We haven't played yet. Again, sidestep the Whitner example all you want. THEY PROVED YOU WRONG! SWALLOW IT>

Comparing preseason with regular season is pure stupidity. It's amazing that your logic that rookies replacing proven players won't prouce success changes now that the colts PROVED YOU WRONG!

The Colts proved nothing about the Bills- you even said that there is no proof their rookies are better than ours. There's no proof that ours are better either- ie, what the Colts did PROVES NOTHING about the Bills.

BTW, you're oversimplifying- my logic isn't that replacing proven players won't produce success. It's that replacing ALL the proven players at the same time combined with the overall lack of talent of those players won't produce success. And so far, it hasn't.

[raphael120]

1) first of all I wasn't talking to you. 2) I don't give a rats ass if you are miserable about the bills. If it bothers you that much, stop watching 3) I'm excited about the bills win or lose and ya'll can :kissa: if you hate the fact that we're excited about the new season and the bills


First off, I don't care who you were talkin to, Shirly.

I aint miserable about the Bills, I'm just callin out the people who are blind that they think because what the Colts do has a reflection on what we can do. What in the past 3 years have the Colts done that the Bills have also done? Comparing the Bills and the Colts are like comparing Benz's and Hondas. Sure they're both cars, but they're very different.

Be excited. But this whole thread was started because of something that the Colts did and somehow because the Colts did it, it means everything that the Bills have done wrong in the past is somehow nonexistant because "well the colts did it." "well the patriots did it." **** that.

I'll believe it when you can prove me wrong based on the Bills merits and not someother team.

[Mahdi]

this post is just plain stupid.

The example utilized the stock market, which has hundreds of variables.

But the point is that Mahdi is trying to compare potential to results and it can't be done.
So you're saying that you would rather have Laverneus Coles than Calvin Johnson? Coles has results and has had them for years. Not spectacular but results. Just like Morris and Brackett they arent Pro Bowlers but they get results. Im saying that with time our guys who have more natural talent and speed will eventually have enough experience to make them better LBs than the Colts have. There is always a potential for bust. But we have all seen flashes of what Poz can do. And we all know Crowell is a good player. And I would take him over Rob Morris any day.

[justasportsfan]

I never said anyone in the league could do it- ONE team did it ONCE. that proves NOTHING about the Bills and it does NOT account for the talent on the Bills roster or anything else specific to the Bills..


PUHLease, everyone here knows all you say is that the bills won't get it right. All you ever say is that we suck and will continue to suck. Make excuses all you want. Backpedal if you want.



I watched the players suck all pre season long, and suddenly the fact that the Colts played well somehow changes that? WTF? There is no logical connection there. this is getting stupid again. The fact that the colts played well proved that rookies can make a difference . You logic was it won't happen.

My point is that , if it can happen with the colts who's D was worse than we were last it can happen to us too , but nooooo! the bills D that was better than the colts are still going to suck.

[raphael120]

Homer last resort tactics:

Attack poster.
Misconstrue what poster says.
Call poster a non-fan.
Say "nanny nanny boo boo" and act like they got the last word in.

[justasportsfan]

I'm done. Deny it all you want. You're a hater.

[raphael120]

Why dont you look at the Saints. Theyre high powered offense blew up in their face. Does that mean our offense is going to blow up in our face? NO.

What happened in the Colts/Saints game has absolutely not connection to what's going to happen in the Bills game. The point of this thread is moot.

[Mitchy moo]

Homer last resort tactics:

Attack poster.
Misconstrue what poster says.
Call poster a non-fan.
Say "nanny nanny boo boo" and act like they got the last word in.

Team Basher last resort:
Go back to previously bad years with different players for examples of our future results.

Use mental tactics to create fear of potential success: Remember the pain you felt from trying to be happy about the team and they lost, how do you feel?

It's opening weekend and I am peeing in your fun soup for my own amusement, want a bowl??

[raphael120]

I'm done. Deny it all you want. You're a hater.

HAHAHA. You just proved my point. Thanks dude. :lmao:

[justasportsfan]

Homer last resort tactics:

Attack poster.
Misconstrue what poster says.
Call poster a non-fan.
Say "nanny nanny boo boo" and act like they got the last word in.
translation : "I'll change the subject because I'm too chicnsh#t to back up my own statement when challenged with a bet"

[justasportsfan]

HAHAHA. You just proved my point. Thanks dude. :lmao:
I wasn't talking you . I was talking to OP. At least he's accepted 2 of my bets.

[raphael120]

Team Basher last resort:
Go back to previously bad years with different players for examples of our future results.

Use mental tactics to create fear of potential success: Remember the pain you felt from trying to be happy about the team and they lost?

It's opening weekend and I am peeing in your soup, want a bowl??

At no point did I bash the team. I was bashing the idiotic idea of using the colts game as some sort of reason that the Bills are going to do well. Because we run the same defense.

Do we have a Bob Sanders? Do I hope we have a good defense like the Colts did last night? Sure! Have we seen anything either way to prove that the Bills will have a defense like that? Nope.

If the Bills hold Denver to 10 points, this thread has some point. Until then, nope.

[raphael120]

translation : "I'll change the subject because I'm too chicnsh#t to back up my own statement when challenged with a bet"

What challenge? I don't go looking for responses to my own posts all day long.

[raphael120]

hahaha, im chicken****.

Let's go to a Bills game and say that to me in person, Lil Miss Priss.

[Mahdi]

Why dont you look at the Saints. Theyre high powered offense blew up in their face. Does that mean our offense is going to blow up in our face? NO.

What happened in the Colts/Saints game has absolutely not connection to what's going to happen in the Bills game. The point of this thread is moot.
The point of the thread is that the Tampa 2 is a good system.... no one is saying that the Colts fate shall be our fate also... we are only saying that our Defense is built similar to their defense and with time we CAN achieve what they have defensively. As opposed to those who are saying that the Tampa 2 is a flawed scheme and we should scrap it.

[Mitchy moo]

The point of the thread is that the Tampa 2 is a good system.... no one is saying that the Colts fate shall be our fate also... we are only saying that our Defense is built similar to their defense and with time we CAN achieve what they have defensively. As opposed to those who are saying that the Tampa 2 is a flawed scheme and we should scrap it.

Exactly the point and It's valid.

[raphael120]

The point of the thread is that the Tampa 2 is a good system.... no one is saying that the Colts fate shall be our fate also... we are only saying that our Defense is built similar to their defense and with time we CAN achieve what they have defensively. As opposed to those who are saying that the Tampa 2 is a flawed scheme and we should scrap it.

I never said we should scrap it. But I don't believe we have the right pieces right now. Safeties. yes. LBs? We're gettin there. Dline? Nuh uh! Corners? I doubt Webster will be here next year.

Of course it can work. Look at the Bears. It's the whole reason why we have hope for Tampa 2. But the point is, you need the personell and the offense to make the other team's offense try to play catch up and make them play into the Tampa 2's strength.

[raphael120]

I'm excited because I honestly think Poz could be Urlacher-ish. We'll see. I'm not going to create a thread about it though.

[Mitchy moo]

I'm excited because I honestly think Poz could be Urlacher-ish. We'll see. I'm not going to create a thread about it though.

No need, we have a dozen running already about it.

[justasportsfan]

What challenge? I don't go looking for responses to my own posts all day long.

I guarantee Price will not have a reception in this game.

Book it.



willing to make a friendly wager on that? :D

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2099083&highlight=price#post2099083

[justasportsfan]

hahaha, im chicken****.

Let's go to a Bills game and say that to me in person, Lil Miss Priss.


:roflmao:

[raphael120]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2099083&highlight=price#post2099083


sorry, i never saw that response.

whats the wager?

[justasportsfan]

sorry, i never saw that response.

whats the wager?
Sig bet. whoever loses has to use the sig provided by the winner til mid-season because I have the same bet with OP by mid-seeason.

[raphael120]

Sig bet. whoever loses has to use the sig provided by the winner til mid-season because I have the same bet with OP by mid-seeason.
You gotta deal my friend! :cheers:

I hope you win, BTW. If Price doesn't catch a pass, it's not good news for our offense.

[justasportsfan]

You gotta deal my friend! :cheers:

I hope you win, BTW. If Price doesn't catch a pass, it's not good news for our offense.
even if it goes for negative yards it's still a catch :roflmao:

[raphael120]

What bet do you have with Op?

[raphael120]

even if it goes for negative yards it's still a catch :roflmao:

LOL What about a fumble???

[justasportsfan]

What bet do you have with Op?


bills rush D won't give up half of what they gave up last year by mid-season. I think it's 1024 yards.

[justasportsfan]

LOL What about a fumble???
you guaranteed no catch not fumble.

[raphael120]

you guaranteed no catch not fumble.

Watch price have a catch for negative 5 yards and then he fumbles it. :spit:

[raphael120]

bills rush D won't give up half of what they gave up last year by mid-season. I think it's 1024 yards.
Hm, good luck with that one.

[justasportsfan]

Watch price have a catch for negative 5 yards and then he fumbles it. :spit:
push :D

[justasportsfan]

Hm, good luck with that one.
:nervous:


Tim Andersons got my back.

[raphael120]

:nervous:


Tim Andersons got my back.

He's got a big bucket of baby back ribs.

[Mahdi]

I never said we should scrap it. But I don't believe we have the right pieces right now. Safeties. yes. LBs? We're gettin there. Dline? Nuh uh! Corners? I doubt Webster will be here next year.

Of course it can work. Look at the Bears. It's the whole reason why we have hope for Tampa 2. But the point is, you need the personell and the offense to make the other team's offense try to play catch up and make them play into the Tampa 2's strength.
I never said you said we should scrap it either! I said THOSE who believe that....

And as for our DL, as individuals they are good player but they look bad because it takes 11 guys doing the right thing for them to look good and that hasnt happened because we have only had one year in this system. Obviously they will look like they are not doing their jobs if not everyone is doing what they should do.

[ddaryl]

if preseason is any indication of what the Tampa 2 can do for the Bills then I'm worried.

[justasportsfan]

if preseason is any indication of what the Tampa 2 can do for the Bills then I'm worried.
you mean we'll give up a ton of yards but not points?

[raphael120]

you mean we'll give up a ton of yards but not points?
did you see the titans game? We gave up more than just a few points.

with their horrid WR corps too!

and Vince Young is NOT known for his accuracy which he hit almost all of his passes that night.

[justasportsfan]

did you see the titans game? We gave up more than just a few points.

with their horrid WR corps too!

and Vince Young is NOT known for his accuracy which he hit almost all of his passes that night.
divide it by 4 games.

Besides, you already know how I feel about preseason.

[OpIv37]

So you're saying that you would rather have Laverneus Coles than Calvin Johnson? Coles has results and has had them for years. Not spectacular but results. Just like Morris and Brackett they arent Pro Bowlers but they get results. Im saying that with time our guys who have more natural talent and speed will eventually have enough experience to make them better LBs than the Colts have. There is always a potential for bust. But we have all seen flashes of what Poz can do. And we all know Crowell is a good player. And I would take him over Rob Morris any day.

I"m saying right now, you can't say that Calvin Johnson is better because he hasn't played any football yet. There is no way to make a valid comparison at this point.

[raphael120]

Honestly, there's no reason to not be optimistic. We havent played a real game yet. But if we make the same mistakes from last season/this preseason and JP looks like he's plateaued, our offense still looks impotent, and our Oline looks like it's not worth 40 cents let a lone 40 million, then we can start bein concerned.

[justasportsfan]

I"m saying right now, you can't say that Calvin Johnson is better because he hasn't played any football yet. There is no way to make a valid comparison at this point.
our rookies haven't played yet so you can't say the colts rookies are better.

[justasportsfan]

We havent played a real game yet. .
tell that to OP.

[OpIv37]

our rookies haven't played yet so you can't say the colts rookies are better.

that's my ****ing point! He gave our LB's the advantage over the Colts' LB's in his comparison thread- I said there is no way to compare them at this point because ours haven't played yet.

[justasportsfan]

that's my ****ing point! He gave our LB's the advantage over the Colts' LB's in his comparison thread- I said there is no way to compare them at this point because ours haven't played yet.
I wasn't talking about just out lb's but the entire D. You base our D on last year and yet last year the colts was worse than we were. Now that they've shown to be better, they can improve (only because you've seen the facts but knowing you, you wouldn't have had that comment about the colts last week) but we can't, is my point.

[OpIv37]

I wasn't talking about just out lb's but the entire D. You base our D on last year and yet last year the colts was worse than we were. Now that they've shown to be better, they can improve (only because you've seen the facts but knowing you, you wouldn't have had that comment about the colts last week) but we can't, is my point.

not that we can't- we didn't. There's a difference. The guys we added/promoted do not make up for the guys we lost and definitely don't make up for the shortcomings of the D last year (especially since guys like Ellison and DiGiorgio were playing and we still had those shortcomings).

[justasportsfan]

not that we can't- we didn't. .that's not what you said before besides where's you proof? Preseason?

[patmoran2006]

what ANYONE FAILS to realize is that the Indy front four is MUCH better at stopping the run than Buffalo's.

Stopping the run ALWAYS starts at DT. When we had Williams/Adams/Washington we were as good as anyone. It doesnt matter what "type" of defense you play.

Until we improve greatly at DT we will suck at stopping the run, until we bring a bunch of guys in the box and pretty much any QB will go over the top on our sorry, sorry cornerbacks.

[OpIv37]

where's you proof? Preseason?

that and prior performance. It's not 100% but based on what we've seen before, the most likely outcome is that these guys will suck because that's what they've shown us so far.

You can't have proof of something that hasn't happened yet- just like you have no proof that the D will be better.

Is this another one of those things where you're trying to get me to admit a possibility? You want me to say that it's possible we'll be better? Yeah, it's possible, but based on the information we have, it sure as hell isn't likely.

[justasportsfan]

that and prior performance. It's not 100% but based on what we've seen before, the most likely outcome is that these guys will suck because that's what they've shown us so far.

You can't have proof of something that hasn't happened yet- just like you have no proof that the D will be better.
.
like I said, prior performance doesn't mean squat. The ciolts just proved that....so far (who knows the season is long)



Is this another one of those things where you're trying to get me to admit a possibility? You want me to say that it's possible we'll be better? Yeah, it's possible, but based on the information we have, it sure as hell isn't likely.

makes a boat load of difference compared to ," not gonna happen " , "we're gonna suck" . You have finality written ove those staements and it says that everyone else who thinks otherwise is wrong.



but based on the information we have, it sure as hell isn't likely.
that's why we have a bet going. WE shall see soon enough.

[duhbilz]

Chicago's D is pretty good too. Do they have an offense that can't be stopped?

Do they stand a chance of winning the SB???? I seriously doubt it!

[ddaryl]

you mean we'll give up a ton of yards but not points?


tons of yards will wear our D down so in the 4th quarter they won't be capable of stopping anything.

Yes the yards given up is my indication, and I don't expect as many shanked field goals nor do I expect vanilla offensive schemes from opposing O's.

I hope I'm wrong, and I very much want to be wrong.. but my hypothesis based on last year and the pre-season is the Bills D will lose us a few extra games this year.

[justasportsfan]

I hope I'm wrong, and I very much want to be wrong.. but my hypothesis based on last year and the pre-season is the Bills D will lose us a few extra games this year. well I guess if it's based on last year and preseson the O is gonna lose some games too. We're screwed.

[TigerJ]

It takes the right people at the right position, but it also takes time for those players to understand the scheme and develop the discipline to do what they're supposed to do all the time.

[DynaPaul]

That's been my point all along- we don't have anywhere close to the right people and it's a D that only works with the perfect personnel. It also relied off of turnovers, which is tough to do consistently.

You could say the same thing about ANY defensive scheme.

[justasportsfan]

If last year and preseason is any indication, OP must think that this O is gonna be worse off than the D. The D was ranked higher than the O.

[Mitchy moo]

OP gave up and is going to become a fan on monday but tuesday it starts all over again.