The one thing that nobody has talked about since the opener

[Mad Bomber]

People have been *****ing about JP ad nauseum...

I was at the game on Sunday, and the thing that I noticed most was the thing that Op has been *****ing about (rightfully so)...

Our D-line got pushed around big time. We got very little pressure on Cutler for a line that is supposed to be a big-time pass rush D. Schobel did make some plays on pass plays, but we got schooled in the running game.

Our D line was getting pushed back routinely on running plays, and our entire defense overpursued on virtually every running play. Denver was eating us up on misdirection plays. The cutback lanes weren't even "lanes"...half the field was wide open.

When you see a DE making a tackle from behind 10-15 yards down the field, it's not a good sign.

When Jim Leonhard makes double-digit tackles in a game, it's not a good sign...those tackles are 10-15 yards past the line of scrimmage.

[patmoran2006]

I thought Tripplett came on the second half and McCargo had the sack.

But from the opening whistle, Kyle Williams looked like he belonged playing in high school-- he was THAT BAD, literally.

[Nighthawk]

JP should be given more time and the support of the OC with a good gameplan. IMO, JP is much more suited to an open gameplan where he can fling the ball around and the coaches refuse to do that. I'd love to see this team live and die flinging the ball around and making it entertaining instead of play this "don't lose" football.

[Mad Bomber]

I thought Tripplett came on the second half and McCargo had the sack.
That sack was when Cutler ran to the outside and was forced back toward the middle of the field. McCargo just happened to be there. It wasnt a pressure sack. He was out of the play until Cutler ran back into his arms.

Our D-line was the weakest part of the entire game IMHO.

That, plus the fact that our defensive coordinator NEVER tried to adjust to Denver's offensive game plan based on hitting quick slants. They did it time after time, and we never adjusted. On 4th and 2, they hit a quick slant...our CBs were 5-8 yds off the line of scrimmage...no bumps. Our CBs were routinely one step behind the Broncos receivers on slant after slant after slant after slant, to the tune of >300 yds passing, with no big pass plays.

[OpIv37]

When you see a DE making a tackle from behind 10-15 yards down the field, it's not a good sign.


I'm disappointed in you, Mad. You've been around long enough to see the homer spin. A DE making a tackle 15 yards past the line of scrimmage is a GOOD thing because it means he hustled and never gave up on the play. It means he has HEART. I know he's not good enough to make the play at the LOS, or at least disrupt it so the LB can make the play, but skill is irrelevant when a player is high-character and determined.

And expecting the D to stop the run? We play a Cover 2- we don't stop the run. What do you think this is- a Patriots board?

[patmoran2006]

That sack was when Cutler ran to the outside and was forced back toward the middle of the field. McCargo just happened to be there. It wasnt a pressure sack. He was out of the play until Cutler ran back into his arms.

Our D-line was the weakest part of the entire game IMHO.

That, plus the fact that our defensive coordinator NEVER tried to adjust to Denver's offensive game plan based on hitting quick slants. They did it time after time, and we never adjusted. On 4th and 2, they hit a quick slant...our CBs were 5-8 yds off the line of scrimmage...no bumps. Our CBs were routinely one step behind the Broncos receivers on slant after slant after slant after slant, to the tune of >300 yds passing, with no big pass plays.
Oh I dont disagree with you. The DT's were terrible as a whole.

But Kyle Williams is the BIG CONCERN.. He's the true "nose" tackle and doesnt have an able backup. He got pushed around like a little girl Sunday and that's not encouraging.

He's escaped most people's mind because of Everett, Losman and the head coach this week.. But he was as bad as anybody on that roster. I still havent figured out why he had 95 on with no name on the back yet either.

[jpdex12]

I'm disappointed in you, Mad. You've been around long enough to see the homer spin. A DE making a tackle 15 yards past the line of scrimmage is a GOOD thing because it means he hustled and never gave up on the play. It means he has HEART. I know he's not good enough to make the play at the LOS, or at least disrupt it so the LB can make the play, but skill is irrelevant when a player is high-character and determined.

And expecting the D to stop the run? We play a Cover 2- we don't stop the run. What do you think this is- a Patriots board?

Rightfully so, we lost another game that we could have won if more than a few plays would have gone the other way. Denver, a team that some picked to be a super bowl contender only snuck out with a last minute win and they certainly could have given up the win on a fair amount of plays that they screwed up, but I wonder what kind of negative crap you and PM could come up with if we would have opened up against the defending champs, Indy and beat them 142 - 0 and held them to -60 yards rushing and -120 yards passing? I bet you two would post some negative digs on the Bills if we won the friggin super bowl for chri*t sake!

[The Answer]

People have been *****ing about JP ad nauseum...

I was at the game on Sunday, and the thing that I noticed most was the thing that Op has been *****ing about (rightfully so)...

Our D-line got pushed around big time. We got very little pressure on Cutler for a line that is supposed to be a big-time pass rush D. Schobel did make some plays on pass plays, but we got schooled in the running game.

Our D line was getting pushed back routinely on running plays, and our entire defense overpursued on virtually every running play. Denver was eating us up on misdirection plays. The cutback lanes weren't even "lanes"...half the field was wide open.

When you see a DE making a tackle from behind 10-15 yards down the field, it's not a good sign.

When Jim Leonhard makes double-digit tackles in a game, it's not a good sign...those tackles are 10-15 yards past the line of scrimmage.

The Dline hasn't been discussed because most of us pretty much expected this to be the case - getting ran over and out muscled on a weekly basis.

We have no pash rush and Schobel is going to get double teamed on a regular basis unless somebody can step to the plate - the question is do we have anybody on the roster that's capable of doing that? Nope.

~The Answer

[duhbilz]

Rightfully so, we lost another game that we could have won if more than a few plays would have gone the other way. Denver, a team that some picked to be a super bowl contender only snuck out with a last minute win and they certainly could have given up the win on a fair amount of plays that they screwed up, but I wonder what kind of negative crap you and PM could come up with if we would have opened up against the defending champs, Indy and beat them 142 - 0 and held them to -60 yards rushing and -120 yards passing? I bet you two would post some negative digs on the Bills if we won the friggin super bowl for chri*t sake!

Who's picking Denver to win the SB with Cutler starting? I don't think I've read any hype about Denver this year.

[shelby]

This was one game, i am not prepared to push the panic button and flush the season yet. Right now we are struggling with injuries. The next few weeks won't be easy. Any signs of progress in a positive direction would be wonderful.

i'm not saying that i expect miracles, because i don't, but our team has a lot of motivation to go out and play to the best of their ability. Let's see how they perform in week 2.

[DraftBoy]

The Dline hasn't been discussed because most of us pretty much expected this to be the case - getting ran over and out muscled on a weekly basis.

We have no pash rush and Schobel is going to get double teamed on a regular basis unless somebody can step to the plate - the question is do we have anybody on the roster that's capable of doing that? Nope.

~The Answer


He is pretty much right about why it hasnt been discussed. Because sadly the Dline played up to expectations. I dont agree we dont have a pass rush because I dont think you'll find anybody who wont contend that Kelsay is a good pass rusher, unfortunately both he and Schobel struggle in stopping the run.

[mybills]

They didn't do too bad in the red zone.

[don137]

I agree and have commented that it is not a good thing when a safety leads in tackles. That means the DL and linebackers are being pushed off the ball and can't make the play. The DL is suppose to hold their ground and let the LBs make the play around the line of scrimmage.
I agree about Williams. He's 300 lbs of heart but no talent. The whole line needs to play better.

[djjimkelly]

JP should be given more time and the support of the OC with a good gameplan. IMO, JP is much more suited to an open gameplan where he can fling the ball around and the coaches refuse to do that. I'd love to see this team live and die flinging the ball around and making it entertaining instead of play this "don't lose" football.


couldnt have said it better myself this coaching staff seem to approach a 3 point lead like other staffs approach a 40 point lead

[LtBillsFan66]

You didn't see my "Did Shoebel even suit up" thread?

[OpIv37]

Rightfully so, we lost another game that we could have won if more than a few plays would have gone the other way. Denver, a team that some picked to be a super bowl contender only snuck out with a last minute win and they certainly could have given up the win on a fair amount of plays that they screwed up, but I wonder what kind of negative crap you and PM could come up with if we would have opened up against the defending champs, Indy and beat them 142 - 0 and held them to -60 yards rushing and -120 yards passing? I bet you two would post some negative digs on the Bills if we won the friggin super bowl for chri*t sake!

First, we haven't won anything since this message board is in existence, so your premise that I would still be negative after we dished out an ass-kicking is completely unfounded. The reason I'm so pissed and negative about this team is because we aren't winning.

Second, in case you didn't notice, we LOST the game. The goal is to WIN, not to ALMOST win. A loss is still a loss. There is no excuse for giving up a first down when we had them in 3rd and 24. There is no excuse for a holding penalty on a punt. There is no excuse for failing to get a first down or at least take a chunk of time off the clock on 3rd and 5. There is no excuse for 97 passing yards. There is no excuse for giving up 470 yards of offense and 130 rush yards. You can't just hope those plays go the right way- you have to MAKE those plays go in our favor and the team failed to do that. I can't believe you're justifying a loss in a game that you admitted was winnable.

Third, Denver is NOT a Super Bowl contender yet- that assessment came from the same media types who always get criticized on here when they rip the Bills. Somehow their assessment of Denver is accurate but their assessment of the Bills is way off base? Cutler didn't look like a SB caliber QB to me- he still made a lot of stupid rookie mistakes.

At the end of the day, a loss is a loss and there is no excuse for our DT's to be pushed all over the place. You act like the problem is being negative after a loss- the problem is the opposite. We want WINS, not excuses, justifications or "almosts".

[TigerJ]

It's pretty troubling.

[madness]

People have been *****ing about JP ad nauseum...

I was at the game on Sunday, and the thing that I noticed most was the thing that Op has been *****ing about (rightfully so)...

Our D-line got pushed around big time. We got very little pressure on Cutler for a line that is supposed to be a big-time pass rush D. Schobel did make some plays on pass plays, but we got schooled in the running game.

Our D line was getting pushed back routinely on running plays, and our entire defense overpursued on virtually every running play. Denver was eating us up on misdirection plays. The cutback lanes weren't even "lanes"...half the field was wide open.

When you see a DE making a tackle from behind 10-15 yards down the field, it's not a good sign.

When Jim Leonhard makes double-digit tackles in a game, it's not a good sign...those tackles are 10-15 yards past the line of scrimmage.

I'd be more worried if we were the only team that failed to stop Denver's running game but they've been beating people with the smash-mouth, using cutback lanes when the D over persues, play action approach for over a decade now.

They've been in the top 10 rushing offense (minus 1 year they were 12) ever since Shanahan came aboard in '95 and top 5 for at least half of those years.

[DarbyTheDinosaur]

I'd be more worried if we were the only team that failed to stop Denver's running game but they've been beating people with the smash-mouth, using cutback lanes when the D over persues, play action approach for over a decade now.

They've been in the top 10 rushing offense (minus 1 year they were 12) ever since Shanahan came aboard in '95 and top 5 for at least half of those years.

I have to tend to agree here...while the D-line did look to be a concern, this is Denver's bag, baby. One week of performance is tough to evaluate off of. This week should be a good evaluation though...I don't think the Steelers line is what it was in the past few years...especially at Center and RT...

I was more concerned with what seems to be goofing on fundamentals...take Henry's 33 yd option run early in the game. I believe it was McGee who went after Cutler on the option...isn't he supposed to cover Henry (who was on the outside) and force Cutler into the LBs? Why would you go after the QB and then allow an open path along the sideline...stuff like that is a killer and unacceptable...we had them pinned (on their own 3) at that point.

[Mad Bomber]

I was more concerned with what seems to be goofing on fundamentals...take Henry's 33 yd option run early in the game. I believe it was McGee who went after Cutler on the option...isn't he supposed to cover Henry (who was on the outside) and force Cutler into the LBs? Why would you go after the QB and then allow an open path along the sideline...stuff like that is a killer and unacceptable...we had them pinned (on their own 3) at that point.
I was at the game - one good thing about the nosebleed seats is that you have a good view of the entire field, and this play was right under where I was sitting. It probably didn't show on TV, but McGee was all alone on that side. There WERE no LBs to force Cutler into...they were with the rest of the defense, flowing to Denver's left. The right side of the field was empty except for McGee.

[justasportsfan]

Our D-line got pushed around big time. We got very little pressure on Cutler for a line that is supposed to be a big-time pass rush D. Schobel did make some plays on pass plays, but we got schooled in the running game.

Our D line was getting pushed back routinely on running plays, and our entire defense overpursued on virtually every running play. Denver was eating us up on misdirection plays. The cutback lanes weren't even "lanes"...half the field was wide open.

.
we were playing the run.