Smart, or logical?

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  • evol4276
    Registered User
    • Oct 2005
    • 1333

    Smart, or logical?

    we have plenty of people on here whom sorry to say look like they'd be the smarter of the people when they were in school from personal pics, whether you wanna take that as a bad thing or a good thing (this isnt the idea of the thread though just stating). that must me completely incorrect though, because if you were as smart as some of you try n make others seem, you surely would understand math. and if you understood math, surely you would know and possibly understand a thing known as probability.

    What I mean by probability for those who don't know is if I were to say for example (without doing any actual math) that JP, let alone any other qb this upcomming week against the pats wuld have say a 1:100 shot for having a lights out game against probably the best team I've seen in a long time, or 1:let's say 50 for having a great game, whether we win or lose. now some teams are obviously going to change the probability for how our QB play would be, and since the first 3 games of this season are against great defenses, our probable chance of having an excellent QB play (or really offensive play at all) is a lot slimmer of a chance than say if we played the Texans. (edit for you guys since i kinda was unclear on what i was doing here. what im trying to say is with these past games and the next one is that we have a lot less of a chance to throw for a lot of yards than to throw for less yards but with good percentage. thats really all i meant and thats why i didn't come with real numbers. it really was a "for instance" dealie if u get what i mean. sry for the confusion. either way these are all really good pass-defenses)

    Not every team is the same. Teams do have a such thing as a good defense and it is hard enough in this league to win a game, let alone put up huge numbers week in week out. JP has shown he can get the ball completed consistantly. And even the probablility of a QB (again unless you are Manning) playing at his very best at the very beginning of a season is going to be a lot lower of a possibilty than say 8 games into the season. Especially if most of the preseason's snaps were given to the backup QB's to see who the backup would be. Look at Brees. He was the best if not one of the best last year. He has started out like the Drew Brees from 3-4 years ago before the emergence of Gates and his fulltime-progression. He has been really slow to catch on right away. You can dispute this all you want and guess what? you would be wrong every time!

    in the first 2 games, he has averaged about 63.3% completion rating. out of the top 15 qbs in passing yards last year (jp 13th) those qbs for the year averaged a 53.49% completion rating. at the moment JP despite "playing as terrible as the worst qb in the league) is completing #1 better than the average by 10%, and #2 completing better than his yearly average last year (62.5 %). it's 2 games but with the complaining and loss of faith in him, one would think he'd average like around a 54% (mcnabb, bulger, romo). look how 2 of the 3 of those teams are also 0-2. and thats also with teams who have far better teams than ours. yards don't win you games. they help, but they don't win you games. a lot of the time the more yards you have after say 200 yds the more of a probability is there of your team losing badly, since that would mean you were to be forced to throw the ball more often.

    JP to my recollection has never been the lights out QB like say a peyton Manning or a Brady. but he does get the ball to the recievers more often than not. calling nearly nothing but run plays despite your defense being unable to get off the field on 3rd downs and then making up for it by doing nothing but passing in the final quarter of the game because of it is nothing to put on him. He did what he needed to. The history of the Bills' organization for years has been narrowed down to if they start off bad and play bad, they will never finish good. I've been used to this concept for a while now. we are not a good enough team YET to be able to make up right away for our entire games-worth of blunders in the last few minutes of the game. It's just not this team has been lately. If I remember correctly JP has had more last-minute game-wins in the past year for a qb than I've seen from this team in a long time, with Holcomb, Bledsoe, RJ, etc. He can get it done when he's allowed. but until we play smart and realize what we need to do and try to actually confuse the defense instead of staying a monotonous offense like we were this past game, we're not going to do a thing on offense against good defenses. Im not saying I don't like our running game. I love our running game. But the idea of using each type of play is to try and open up certain possiblities (i.e. passing effectively to open up running lanes, or vice versa which I know we can do) so you can keep the defense on their toes. not do the same old stuff to where they know exactly whats coming next.

    we as a team and as fans of this team need to learn to want to gameplan better and smarter. We as a team and as fans need to learn to stop wanting to cut our wrists and cry the blues about a player the second something goes wrong. we as a team and as fans need to stop wanting to get rid of players the second something goes wrong. if we keep doing this we'll just end up the same exact way forever. This is a lot of the reason to why we have been so terrible this millenium. we have never given anybody more than 2-3 years of chance, whether its a coach, or a qb. trust me i am sick and tired of losing but for the first time shown last year do i feel like we have a qb and a wr who we can build this team around. now we have a rb who I have loved since the beginning of the offseason who has met every one of my expectations. We are on the right track to progressing into a great team. but we are a young team. young teams are not going to win every single game by 30 points the first few years theyre in the league. especially if a lot of our starters have been seriously hurt.

    one thing i think we need to do is change our #2 wr situation since we for some reason made no changed to the playing core this year. Move Reed to #2, Parrish to #3. Price has not proven to me that he is worth anything. I would much rather have the WR's who have the best relationship with the QUARTERBACK on the field. Not the best relations with the team in years past. Evans and Losman obviously have a bond. Reed and Losman have shown to have built a bond this year in the offseason. Parrish and Losman are actually starting to show a bond. we need to build off of this stuff.

    so you can use the "excuses.. excuses.." line all you want or the ever-so-loved to try and belittle my ideas and opinions instead of giving actual intellectual reasons as to why you feel differently, which is not what ive seen the past 2 weeks hardly at all on here. and you can even say the favorite line of how "im accepting mediocrity" or "lack-luster qb play" not once have i said im accepting a thing. but numbers dont lie. and sometimes actually having a conversation about something instead of putting people down about their opinions will make things easier to tolerate on here. and the people who have wished for JP to get hurt, whether seriously or not as much (ive seen both) have shown they obviously have no idea of this sport at all. just because you post on a website about football does not mean that you know what the hell you are talking about at all. Some of you need to realize this soon. And im not saying I know what im talking about, but i can back up my opinions 9 times out of 10, which means I actually care about giving everyone an understanding of why I feel the way I do. im expecting nothing but groans, but some of you need to realize you are not the most knowledgable person on here, whether you are someone acting as a character all the time or if you are just somebody who flip-flops around for whatever the message-board concensus is. learn to grow up and actually have your OWN opinion and be able to talk about it like an adult. thats what this site is for. to discuss. not shout one-liners and leave, and then ***** ***** ***** because not everyone feels the same way, and then post the same dribble 85 times either in 1 thread or spreadout in many threads and not expect someone to say anything. those are my 2 cents. take it however way you want. probably wont get any responses to this like usual anyways.
    Last edited by evol4276; 09-18-2007, 09:05 PM.
  • BidsJr
    Registered User
    • Sep 2002
    • 2858

    #2
    Re: Smart, or logical?

    Originally posted by evol4276
    we have plenty of people on here whom sorry to say look like they'd be the smarter of the people when they were in school from personal pics, whether you wanna take that as a bad thing or a good thing (this isnt the idea of the thread though just stating). that must me completely incorrect though, because if you were as smart as some of you try n make others seem, you surely would understand math. and if you understood math, surely you would know and possibly understand a thing known as probability. What I mean by probability for those who don't know is if I were to say for example (without doing any actual math) that JP, let alone any other qb this upcomming week against the pats wuld have say a 1:100 shot for having a lights out game against probably the best team I've seen in a long time, or 1:let's say 50 for having a great game, whether we win or lose. now some teams are obviously going to change the probability for how our QB play would be, and since the first 3 games of this season are against great defenses, our probable chance of having an excellent QB play (or really offensive play at all) is a lot slimmer of a chance than say if we played the Texans. Not every team is the same. Teams do have a such thing as a good defense and it is hard enough in this league to win a game, let alone put up huge numbers week in week out. JP has shown he can get the ball completed consistantly. And even the probablility of a QB (again unless you are Manning) playing at his very best at the very beginning of a season is going to be a lot lower of a possibilty than say 8 games into the season. Especially if most of the preseason's snaps were given to the backup QB's to see who the backup would be. Look at Brees. He was the best if not one of the best last year. He has started out like the Drew Brees from 3-4 years ago before the emergence of Gates and his fulltime-progression. He has been really slow to catch on right away. You can dispute this all you want and guess what? you would be wrong every time! in the first 2 games, he has averaged about 63.3% completion rating. out of the top 15 qbs in passing yards last year (jp 13th) those qbs for the year averaged a 53.49% completion rating. at the moment JP despite "playing as terrible as the worst qb in the league) is completing #1 better than the average by 10%, and #2 completing better than his yearly average last year (62.5 %). it's 2 games but with the complaining and loss of faith in him, one would think he'd average like around a 54% (mcnabb, bulger, romo). look how 2 of the 3 of those teams are also 0-2. and thats also with teams who have far better teams than ours. yards don't win you games. they help, but they don't win you games. a lot of the time the more yards you have after say 200 yds the more of a probability is there of your team losing badly, since that would mean you were to be forced to throw the ball more often. JP to my recollection has never been the lights out QB like say a peyton Manning or a Brady. but he does get the ball to the recievers more often than not. calling nearly nothing but run plays despite your defense being unable to get off the field on 3rd downs and then making up for it by doing nothing but passing in the final quarter of the game because of it is nothing to put on him. He did what he needed to. The history of the Bills' organization for years has been narrowed down to if they start off bad and play bad, they will never finish good. I've been used to this concept for a while now. we are not a good enough team YET to be able to make up right away for our entire games-worth of blunders in the last few minutes of the game. It's just not this team has been lately. If I remember correctly JP has had more last-minute game-wins in the past year for a qb than I've seen from this team in a long time, with Holcomb, Bledsoe, RJ, etc. He can get it done when he's allowed. but until we play smart and realize what we need to do and try to actually confuse the defense instead of staying a monotonous offense like we were this past game, we're not going to do a thing on offense against good defenses. Im not saying I don't like our running game. I love our running game. But the idea of using each type of play is to try and open up certain possiblities (i.e. passing effectively to open up running lanes, or vice versa which I know we can do) so you can keep the defense on their toes. not do the same old stuff to where they know exactly whats coming next. we as a team and as fans of this team need to learn to want to gameplan better and smarter. We as a team and as fans need to learn to stop wanting to cut our wrists and cry the blues about a player the second something goes wrong. we as a team and as fans need to stop wanting to get rid of players the second something goes wrong. if we keep doing this we'll just end up the same exact way forever. This is a lot of the reason to why we have been so terrible this millenium. we have never given anybody more than 2-3 years of chance, whether its a coach, or a qb. trust me i am sick and tired of losing but for the first time shown last year do i feel like we have a qb and a wr who we can build this team around. now we have a rb who I have loved since the beginning of the offseason who has met every one of my expectations. We are on the right track to progressing into a great team. but we are a young team. young teams are not going to win every single game by 30 points the first few years theyre in the league. especially if a lot of our starters have been seriously hurt. one thing i think we need to do is change our #2 wr situation since we for some reason made no changed to the playing core this year. Move Reed to #2, Parrish to #3. Price has not proven to me that he is worth anything. I would much rather have the WR's who have the best relationship with the QUARTERBACK on the field. Not the best relations with the team in years past. Evans and Losman obviously have a bond. Reed and Losman have shown to have built a bond this year in the offseason. Parrish and Losman are actually starting to show a bond. we need to build off of this stuff.

    so you can use the "excuses.. excuses.." line all you want or the ever-so-loved to try and belittle my ideas and opinions instead of giving actual intellectual reasons as to why you feel differently, which is not what ive seen the past 2 weeks hardly at all on here. and you can even say the favorite line of how "im accepting mediocrity" or "lack-luster qb play" not once have i said im accepting a thing. but numbers dont lie. and sometimes actually having a conversation about something instead of putting people down about their opinions will make things easier to tolerate on here. and the people who have wished for JP to get hurt, whether seriously or not as much (ive seen both) have shown they obviously have no idea of this sport at all. just because you post on a website about football does not mean that you know what the hell you are talking about at all. Some of you need to realize this soon. And im not saying I know what im talking about, but i can back up my opinions 9 times out of 10, which means I actually care about giving everyone an understanding of why I feel the way I do. im expecting nothing but groans, but some of you need to realize you are not the most knowledgable person on here, whether you are someone acting as a character all the time or if you are just somebody who flip-flops around for whatever the message-board concensus is. learn to grow up and actually have your OWN opinion and be able to talk about it like an adult. thats what this site is for. to discuss. not shout one-liners and leave, and then ***** ***** ***** because not everyone feels the same way, and then post the same dribble 85 times either in 1 thread or spreadout in many threads and not expect someone to say anything. those are my 2 cents. take it however way you want. probably wont get any responses to this like usual anyways.

    WTH is this?

    My head hurts.
    "Well I drink too much and get punched in the head by fighters for fun, so my memory isn't so great." -OpIv37

    Comment

    • Mitchy moo
      Roways rooking ahread!
      • Sep 2005
      • 18380

      #3
      Re: Smart, or logical?

      Logical:

      Atlanta / Kansas City are the only 2 teams with less points for than us minus the 1 TD our ST gave us, so you can make a case we have the worst offensive production.

      Atlanta and KC both had 2 away games and we had 1 home and 1 away.

      Smart:

      The coaches have little to no faith in JP nor his playing ability and do not trust him with the rock.

      JP cannot run a stand and deliver offense using his feet.

      JP was a TD project and every other thing that TD brought to the table has failed us. (note TD's inability to find new employment)

      Comment

      • evol4276
        Registered User
        • Oct 2005
        • 1333

        #4
        Re: Smart, or logical?

        Originally posted by Skooby
        Logical:

        Atlanta / Kansas City are the only 2 teams with less points for than us minus the 1 TD our ST gave us, so you can make a case we have the worst offensive production.

        Atlanta and KC both had 2 away games and we had 1 home and 1 away.

        Smart:

        The coaches have little to no faith in JP nor his playing ability and do not trust him with the rock.

        JP cannot run a stand and deliver offense using his feet.

        JP was a TD project and every other thing that TD brought to the table has failed us. (note TD's inability to find new employment)
        yea as i said i know we havent had a good offensive outing at all. but given what we can take he has actually gotten the ball to the recievers. we just need to trust him more and really need to stop being the most scared team in the league because "boohoo we start off with 3 really hard games." every game in the nfl is hard. our coaches need to be smart with their gameplans and actually mix it up and use our strengths to our advantages instead of worrying about what COULD happen against good d's. you don't know until you try. and we haven't really shown yet that we really want to try. as much as i hate to say, the coaching really pisses me off at the moment. but im not calling for a change, unless it stays the same throughout the year and we get no progression whatsoever, cuz then thatll just show that they really honestly dont care if this team wins or loses and has the mindset that "oh we lost some starters. we cant win now." NE has proven over and over again that you can win with backups. we are not NE obviously, but we dont need to have the losing mentality because we lost a few starters.

        Comment

        • evol4276
          Registered User
          • Oct 2005
          • 1333

          #5
          Re: Smart, or logical?

          Originally posted by BidsJr
          WTH is this?

          My head hurts.
          reasoning? its lengthy but w/e lol proves my point

          Comment

          • Mitchy moo
            Roways rooking ahread!
            • Sep 2005
            • 18380

            #6
            Re: Smart, or logical?

            Originally posted by evol4276
            yea as i said i know we havent had a good offensive outing at all. but given what we can take he has actually gotten the ball to the recievers. we just need to trust him more and really need to stop being the most scared team in the league because "boohoo we start off with 3 really hard games." every game in the nfl is hard. our coaches need to be smart with their gameplans and actually mix it up and use our strengths to our advantages instead of worrying about what COULD happen against good d's. you don't know until you try. and we haven't really shown yet that we really want to try. as much as i hate to say, the coaching really pisses me off at the moment. but im not calling for a change, unless it stays the same throughout the year and we get no progression whatsoever, cuz then thatll just show that they really honestly dont care if this team wins or loses and has the mindset that "oh we lost some starters. we cant win now." NE has proven over and over again that you can win with backups. we are not NE obviously, but we dont need to have the losing mentality because we lost a few starters.
            Whatever plays the coaches call will not be designed for running out of the pocket, unless it's some type of screen. We have a stand and deliver type system in place and JP cannot stand still, therein lies the trouble. You are looking at the coaches and thinking give Jp a chance but he can't even get 101 stuff done so how do you give him 104 stuff? You don't and you can't, the experiment is over.

            Comment

            • evol4276
              Registered User
              • Oct 2005
              • 1333

              #7
              Re: Smart, or logical?

              Originally posted by Skooby
              Whatever plays the coaches call will not be designed for running out of the pocket, unless it's some type of screen. We have a stand and deliver type system in place and JP cannot stand still, therein lies the trouble. You are looking at the coaches and thinking give Jp a chance but he can't even get 101 stuff done so how do you give him 104 stuff? You don't and you can't, the experiment is over.
              well to be honest i wuld love to see more continuity in the line play before stating that he cant do the basics. ive seen him surrounded and trounced on a number of plays in a matter of a second and it sucks because we have spent so much money on this line this year and they still cant protect any better than the crapful of guys we had last year. i really do not understand it at all. like i thought our line coach was supposed to be one of the best in the league?

              Comment

              • Mitchy moo
                Roways rooking ahread!
                • Sep 2005
                • 18380

                #8
                Re: Smart, or logical?

                Originally posted by evol4276
                well to be honest i wuld love to see more continuity in the line play before stating that he cant do the basics. ive seen him surrounded and trounced on a number of plays in a matter of a second and it sucks because we have spent so much money on this line this year and they still cant protect any better than the crapful of guys we had last year. i really do not understand it at all. like i thought our line coach was supposed to be one of the best in the league?
                He had multiple plays of many seconds, yet it didn't matter. I think our line is ok minus a few blown assignments.

                Comment

                • evol4276
                  Registered User
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 1333

                  #9
                  Re: Smart, or logical?

                  Originally posted by Skooby
                  He had multiple plays of many seconds, yet it didn't matter. I think our line is ok minus a few blown assignments.
                  those plays when they did what they needed to he's gotten the ball out tho is what im saying. its not like every time hes dropping back he's being sacked or hurried to throw incompletions. just when the line does their assignments (which isnt as often as i would like for what we've spent on them) we can do what we need to. its really the same with any qb tho. his showing of his completion % shows he can get it done when he doesnt need to be running around, tho for some reason he is better scrambling i think

                  Comment

                  • Mr. Pink
                    Peterman Sucks!
                    • Mar 2006
                    • 35303

                    #10
                    Re: Smart, or logical?

                    Paragraphs...new concept...use them.

                    Anyone got a tylenol?

                    Comment

                    • evol4276
                      Registered User
                      • Oct 2005
                      • 1333

                      #11
                      Re: Smart, or logical?

                      Originally posted by FunTimesYaY!
                      Paragraphs...new concept...use them.

                      Anyone got a tylenol?
                      ok for the record: this is not english class. im not writing a paper. i am not an english major by far. i am not a sports analyst for some website. i do not write for a living. im sorry i can't write user-friendly posts flowing with chapters and sections all the time. im sorry. but if you dont wanna read it then dont read it. this is the internet. noone is going to write perfectly all the time. enuf with the one-liners already please im trying to spark an actual conversation here about FOOTBALL. not my writing flaws.

                      Comment

                      • evol4276
                        Registered User
                        • Oct 2005
                        • 1333

                        #12
                        Re: Smart, or logical?

                        there tried splitting it up a little.. sry that was so impossible to read i jus ranted kinda

                        Comment

                        • PcA125
                          Registered User
                          • May 2006
                          • 1421

                          #13
                          Re: Smart, or logical?

                          Originally posted by evol4276
                          and if you understood math, surely you would know and possibly understand a thing known as probability.

                          What I mean by probability for those who don't know is if I were to say for example (without doing any actual math) that JP, let alone any other qb this upcomming week against the pats wuld have say a 1:100 shot for having a lights out game against probably the best team I've seen in a long time, or 1:let's say 50 for having a great game, whether we win or lose. now some teams are obviously going to change the probability for how our QB play would be, and since the first 3 games of this season are against great defenses, our probable chance of having an excellent QB play (or really offensive play at all) is a lot slimmer of a chance than say if we played the Texans.
                          I have a few things to say here... 1) you said that if we understood math then we would understand what you are trying to prove... but then you go on to use made up stats. That kind of confused me. 2) We arnt asking for a lights out game or even a great game.... we just want something better. the last 2 games have been terrible. This has been said before, but why cant we judge our O against the GOOD defenses of the league instead of the ones that we are supposed to beat.


                          in the first 2 games, he has averaged about 63.3% completion rating. But look at the yards he is putting up

                          yards don't win you games. they help, but they don't win you games. a lot of the time the more yards you have after say 200 yds the more of a probability is there of your team losing badly, since that would mean you were to be forced to throw the ball more often. I dissagree. Look at the teams that played against us. Were they losing badly when they put up all those yards against us in the air?

                          calling nearly nothing but run plays despite your defense being unable to get off the field on 3rd downs and then making up for it by doing nothing but passing in the final quarter of the game because of it is nothing to put on him. The words despite your defense being able to get off the field should not be an issue here. They are on the field for the entire game because the O goes 3 and out every down.

                          If I remember correctly JP has had more last-minute game-wins in the past year for a qb than I've seen from this team in a long time, with Holcomb, Bledsoe, RJ, etc. What? how many did he have... two? I cant remember exactly but its really not that impressive.

                          A few things stood out to me in your post. Im not trying to attack you personally, but i do not agree with most of what you said. Im not claiming to be a football genius, just a fan.
                          Cheers!

                          Comment

                          • evol4276
                            Registered User
                            • Oct 2005
                            • 1333

                            #14
                            Re: Smart, or logical?

                            Originally posted by PcA125
                            A few things stood out to me in your post. Im not trying to attack you personally, but i do not agree with most of what you said. Im not claiming to be a football genius, just a fan.
                            ok finally someone else trying. thank you. the thing with the made up stat was all i was tyring to do was explaining the idea of probability for those who didnt knwo what it is. thats the only reason i put a made up stat like that. what i was trying to say is that given what i explained about our preseason and how hardly anyone is on the top of their game 2 games into the season etc. is why i brought that up. sry for the confusion.

                            also with the passing, i was talking about us passing, not our opponents. last game in the first half we threw 5 times. we prolly had more drop backs but i doubt many more. we didnt start really opening up the passing game until we were down 2 scores. we played super-conservative the 2 games so far and it is not in our best of interests as a team in my opinion.

                            and the last thing u mentioned is my saying about comebacks. ask anybody here. i even remember seeing it last year when it happened, is that noone here is used to this team coming back from being tied or losing in the last seconds to win the game. yea its only 2 but its 2 more than we've seen prior in a long time, and just the fact that he can do it makes me feel better about him than the everyday shmoe we've found lately

                            and im only a fan too :-P not at all saying im a genious.

                            Comment

                            • hydro
                              Registered User
                              • Oct 2005
                              • 20160

                              #15
                              Re: Smart, or logical?

                              Originally posted by evol4276
                              ok for the record: this is not english class. im not writing a paper. i am not an english major by far. i am not a sports analyst for some website. i do not write for a living. im sorry i can't write user-friendly posts flowing with chapters and sections all the time. im sorry. but if you dont wanna read it then dont read it. this is the internet. noone is going to write perfectly all the time. enuf with the one-liners already please im trying to spark an actual conversation here about FOOTBALL. not my writing flaws.
                              We know its not english class but the point is its easier to read if you split it up. Most people, me included hate reading a big jumble of letters.
                              BERNIAC!

                              Comment

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