This Game A Pass For Losman?

[raphael120]

We've heard all the hype, we've heard all negativity.

We've seen the Vegas odds. +17 Yeeesh!

We all know the rankings, we know we're basement meanwhile the Patriots are somewhere in the proverbial penthouse that is the top of the rankings.

My question is...if JP performs horribly -again- against the Pats defense...do we let it slide? Do we surrender to the fact that, well, what did you expect, the Pats are good and we'll just wait til JP plays against a lesser contender? I say no.

Last time I checked...the whole point of football was to get to the Superbowl. And that means that you should be able to butt heads and play with the big dogs. Now I hardly think that Denver is a "big dog" but the Steelers and Patriots arguably are. In conclusion...if our current QB can't get the job done against the best...actually forget winning the game, just giving the team a chance to win, meaning making plays, not making stupid decisions and at least giving it a fighting shot...then how could you agrue that JP can be our QB of the future.

Thus far he hasn't been able to get it done against many opponents. Sure he did it against the Texans, but last time I checked, there are much better teams out there on the way to getting into the playoffs and it's going to take a lot more than beating Houston, Miami, and the Jets to cut it in this league. At 0-3...statistically...hell, even at 0-2...we don't have a shot to do anything above 5-11. We're not making the playoffs.

When is enough enough? A crushing loss at the Pats? When? Are we going to wait for JP to lose to a bad team for us to know that he's not the answer? I could care less if he can get the job done against a bad team, I want a QB that can get it done against the good teams. It's comfort in wins against lesser teams that allow the Bills organization to sell tickets, to sell merchandise, to keep making money. We're so starved as fans that we'll take barely winning against the likes of Houston, Miami, the Jets.

I believe if JP can't get the job done against the Pats...if he doesn't even show any glimmer of competance, make any sort of plays, and sort of attempt to carry this team and provide a spark on the offense, then I say enough is indeed enough. We've seen enough of the Bills losing against the Pats. I don't care that the Chargers got spanked by the Pats, I really don't. If you ask me, the Chargers QB is no better than JP. They have no "top 5" WR like we do...and Lynch is no LT but damn.

If JP can put up points, sustain drives, and just make the right decisions and come out of even a loss showing that he wasn't one of the problems, then he has another shot. But if he shows the same incompetance, inability to do anything to get the offense in gear, then I'd say, season is over, and let's at least have some reason to keep watchin the Bills by seeing how Trent Edwards fares. At this point, it's too late to keep making excuses for JP. This is decision time to see whether we have the QB of the future on our team, and the faster we decide that JP isn't it, the sooner we can move on, the faster we can really pinpoint the needs on this team for next season.

I don't know about anyone else, but everyone says how well we played at the end of the season. How much of that was special teams? How much of that was JP himself? How many of those wins were against relevant teams? I don't know about anyone else but the defense gave us tons of breaks in those games we even stayed in..and you see what happens when our defense gives us nothing, and you even see what happens when the defense does give us something, or our special teams. Might as well not even go for an INT unless you know you can make it to the endzone because that's the only way youre getting points. The offense sure can't.

I think we're seeing what happens when our offense doesn't have big defensive/special teams plays to hide behind. When it's up to soley our offense, it's over.

[Mitchy moo]

The pass he needs is to Evans for 4 TD's on sunday, then 1 more to Roscoe for good measure.

[Earthquake Enyart]

The game that decides his career is the Jet game next week.

There is no real down side for him here. He is already at rock bottom. There's no where to go but up.

[raphael120]

The game that decides his career is the Jet game next week.

There is no real down side for him here. He is already at rock bottom. There's no where to go but up.

I agree that if he loses against the Jets, it proves he can't cut it in the NFL and can't bring us to the playoffs.

BUT...even if he wins against the Jets, what does that even deduce? I don't think it accomplishes anything. So what if he won against a team as bad as our own. The whole point of a QB is to win the games against the bad AND the good teams. See my point?

[HHURRICANE]

The game that decides his career is the Jet game next week.

There is no real down side for him here. He is already at rock bottom. There's no where to go but up.

I agree that this is what will probably happen but if I were the coaching staff I'd give Edwards a chance at a win against the Jets.

Losman or Edwards gives us the same chance at winning against the Jets.

[Elminster]

Of course not, but it seems escapist and wishful to heap it all on him. The playbook needs to open up, the defense has to stop some one...and the receivers need to get open.

[HHURRICANE]

Of course not, but it seems escapist and wishful to heap it all on him. The playbook needs to open up, the defense has to stop some one...and the receivers need to get open.

I don't think many people were blaming Carson Palmer for the loss against the Browns.

[Wraith]

Losman or Edwards gives us the same chance at winning against the Jets.

I doubt it. If there's one team Losman has proven he can light up in his career, it's the NYJ.

[TacklingDummy]

My question is...if JP performs horribly -again- against the Pats defense...do we let it slide?

That depends.

If JP plays well against the Pats then we will consider the test passed.

If JP does poorly against the Pats then we should let it slide and wait until the Jet game.

[Earthquake Enyart]

We, it would give him one more game. If he plays well against the Jets, then lays an egg against the Cowboys, then they have to think real hard about Edwards after the bye.

[Ickybaluky]

I would think he gets at least 3 more games. After NE, there is the Jets and Dallas (who have a good offense, but not a great defense).

After that is the Bill's Bye Week. If the team were considering a change in QB, the Bye Week seems like a spot to consider it.

[raphael120]

Of course not, but it seems escapist and wishful to heap it all on him. The playbook needs to open up, the defense has to stop some one...and the receivers need to get open.

I agree...we need to "open it up". But if JP can't find the open guy when we have 4 WRs out there, then I think opening it up won't work because you don't have the QB to handle all the options. Think about it. If you have more options, thats more places to look in less time, you have to read the coverage so much better because its more of a crowded field. I just don't know if, mentally, JP has it.

[Wraith]

I agree...we need to "open it up". But if JP can't find the open guy when we have 4 WRs out there, then I think opening it up won't work because you don't have the QB to handle all the options. Think about it. If you have more options, thats more places to look in less time, you have to read the coverage so much better because its more of a crowded field. I just don't know if, mentally, JP has it.

If last year is any indication, then Losman can handle passing out of 4 WR set just fine.

[raphael120]

If last year is any indication, then Losman can handle passing out of 4 WR set just fine.

Just a question, not tryin to be an ass, but how many times did we line up in 4 wide this season thus far? Would be interesting to know.

[JD]

I'm getting tired of waiting. If cleveland can dump their rookie QB after a rough first game, we can drop this bum after three seasons of ****.

[Wraith]

Just a question, not tryin to be an ass, but how many times did we line up in 4 wide this season thus far? Would be interesting to know.

According to ESPN.com, the Bills have thrown the ball 18 times with 4 or more receivers. These numbers wouldn't include any runs out of this formation (if there were any, I doubt it).

The results have been:

12/18 (66.6%), 92 yards, 0 TD, 0 Int, 1 Sack, no QB scrambles, 78.9 rating.

EDIT:

For your reference, last season we threw 151 times out of that formation (versus 14 times with 1 receiver, 121 times with 2 receivers, and 142 times with 3 receivers). The four wide receiver set was Losman's best by rating:

106/151 (70.2%, very good), 1243 Yards (8.23 YPA, 11.73 YPC, both of which are great), 7 TDs, 5 Intercetions, and 13 sacks. Overall rating was a 96.5.

[Night Train]

I would think he gets at least 3 more games. After NE, there is the Jets and Dallas (who have a good offense, but not a great defense).

After that is the Bill's Bye Week. If the team were considering a change in QB, the Bye Week seems like a spot to consider it.

You are correct.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I would think he gets at least 3 more games. After NE, there is the Jets and Dallas (who have a good offense, but not a great defense).

After that is the Bill's Bye Week. If the team were considering a change in QB, the Bye Week seems like a spot to consider it.
Problem is that we have the Ravens after the bye. Would we throw Edwards to the wolves his first game?

[raphael120]

According to ESPN.com, the Bills have thrown the ball 18 times with 4 or more receivers. These numbers wouldn't include any runs out of this formation (if there were any, I doubt it).

The results have been:

12/18 (66.6%), 92 yards, 0 TD, 0 Int, 1 Sack, no QB scrambles, 78.9 rating.

EDIT:

For your reference, last season we threw 151 times out of that formation (versus 14 times with 1 receiver, 121 times with 2 receivers, and 142 times with 3 receivers). The four wide receiver set was Losman's best by rating:

106/151 (70.2%, very good), 1243 Yards (8.23 YPA, 11.73 YPC, both of which are great), 7 TDs, 5 Intercetions, and 13 sacks. Overall rating was a 96.5.

The stat that jumps out the most is the 92 yards when weve had 12 completetions.

That means 7.6 yards per completion out of the 4 wide. That's pretty piss poor when you're "spreading the field" so much. I'd wonder how many times out of those 4 wides were actual screens. I'd say at LEAST 5.

Point is, when we go 4 wide, we don't go downfield too much.

[Wraith]

The stat that jumps out the most is the 92 yards when weve had 12 completetions.

That means 7.6 yards per completion out of the 4 wide. That's pretty piss poor when you're "spreading the field" so much. I'd wonder how many times out of those 4 wides were actual screens. I'd say at LEAST 5.

Point is, when we go 4 wide, we don't go downfield too much.

Agreed. I think we've run several wide receiver screens to Price out of this formation and a few of those 1.5 yard outs to Price as well, both of which drive me CRAZY.

[deepslant]

JP gets a pass this week since its the Pats. He will be under a frikin microscope during Jets and Cowpies. Two make-or-break games for JP.

[Yasgur's Farm]

According to ESPN.com, the Bills have thrown the ball 18 times with 4 or more receivers. These numbers wouldn't include any runs out of this formation (if there were any, I doubt it).

The results have been:

12/18 (66.6%), 92 yards, 0 TD, 0 Int, 1 Sack, no QB scrambles, 78.9 rating.

EDIT:

For your reference, last season we threw 151 times out of that formation (versus 14 times with 1 receiver, 121 times with 2 receivers, and 142 times with 3 receivers). The four wide receiver set was Losman's best by rating:

106/151 (70.2%, very good), 1243 Yards (8.23 YPA, 11.73 YPC, both of which are great), 7 TDs, 5 Intercetions, and 13 sacks. Overall rating was a 96.5.Way to back it up with facts... Unfortunately, bashers have no use for facts. :monkeyp:

[raphael120]

Agreed. I think we've run several wide receiver screens to Price out of this formation and a few of those 1.5 yard outs to Price as well, both of which drive me CRAZY.

Worst part is, they do it on 3rd and longs, its like the team already knows we are too afraid to test their safeties.

[The last buffalo fan]

Worst part is, they do it on 3rd and longs, its like the team already knows we are too afraid to test their safeties.

I hate it too man, but this is Dick's team, and he was playing against "the best DB tandem" in the NFL, and "one of the elite S" (bull****!!!). :ill:

I like JP alot, and I'm aware what this guy can and can't do, so I can't believe that a Dick do not understand it (wants it?). I'm not giving JP pass or defending him, but if the game plan do not goes acordingly his skills, or the current players on the team, wait for the same result.

[raphael120]

I hate it too man, but this is Dick's team, and he was playing against "the best DB tandem" in the NFL, and "one of the elite S" (bull****!!!). :ill:

I like JP alot, and I'm aware what this guy can and can't do, so I can't believe that a Dick do not understand it (wants it?). I'm not giving JP pass or defending him, but if the game plan do not goes acordingly his skills, or the current players on the team, wait for the same result.

Well, I tell ya what. The coaches by now should know what DOESN'T work, so. Balls to the wall, Dick. (hehe thats funny)

[Elminster]

Well, I tell ya what. The coaches by now should know what DOESN'T work, so. Balls to the wall, Dick. (hehe thats funny) Indeed.

Oh, and just so we're straight, if we dump the Fisher-Price play-calling for some real offense and JP plays like crap, then by all means, bench him once he plays his way out of the job. But as long as we do crap like draws on 3rd&forever(every time, instead of once in a blue moon like normal teams) and tell the defense what we're doing by changing personnel all the time, it really doesn't matter whose behind center...