Allow me to ask something in an open-ended manner;

[Wys Guy]

Would it have been possible for Wilson to see this team out of Buffalo any more "smoothly" while "maintaining appearances" then it is apparently prepared to end now?

I mean, if Wilson had truly wanted to see to it that this team left Buffalo either soon or following his passing, and if he truly wanted it to seem that he was making his best effort to put a winning team on the field, and if yet truly wanted to see the team fail so miserably, ...

... could he possibly have engineered the effort any better behind the scenes or w/o anyone knowing or suspecting?

Why would he do that, or what's in it for him you might ask? Plenty.

First of all, money for his family, none of whom desire to run/manage/own the team when he departs. He can clearly get a lot more from selling the team to a group desiring to move it away from Buffalo.

Second, presently he's the only owner that the NFL has ever seen in Buffalo. By seeing to it that the team leaves, he would cement a nice legacy, at least on paper, and preserve that status.

Third, he continually saves some money by spending much less on a head coach and assistants. He obviously can only spend "so little" on players due to the salcap rules there, but the money he saves on coaches goes into his pocket.

Wilson's days as a viable NFL team owner are long over, or, he's been playing us all for fools for a while now.

[Mitchy moo]

Blah, blah blah, We are doomed. Turn off the repeater.

[Nighthawk]

Some good points and I hope not, but it's been obvious for the last few years that Wilson's caring for winning has not been there. He is basically useless at this point.

[HAMMER]

Unprovoked attack on a poster.

Piss off. This post#& is a douche!

[raphael120]

Homers, go **** yourself.

Wys has been dead on in his assessment of this ****ty team for years now.

[Jeff1220]

Homers, go **** yourself.

Wys has been dead on in his assessment of this ****ty team for years now.

Wy has certainly been right on quite a few things over the years, but far from everything. (Rob Johnson, Travis Brown, & Shawn Bryson to name a few). I don't necessarily think this scenario is out of the realm of possibility, but it's not likely. I doubt Ralph really wants to hurt the value and profitability of his franchise by having them suck for 8 consecutive seasons, or whatever it's been at this point. He very well might move them, or sell to ownership that will, but I don't necessarily think it was a mastermind scheme to suck for years to make it happen.

[gr8slayer]

:monkeyp: <img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/44/Wilson_ralph.jpg/200px-Wilson_ralph.jpg" border="0" height="287" width="200">

[HAMMER]

I could care less if he is right or not, don't come to a Bills board and call people morons for supporting their team, which is what he has done for years. It's all in the delivery, mine might not be great but his is much worse.

[mybills]

Homers, go **** yourself.

Wys has been dead on in his assessment of this ****ty team for years now.
Except for Phillip Rivers. :roflmao:

[Mr. Cynical]

Would it have been possible for Wilson to see this team out of Buffalo any more "smoothly" while "maintaining appearances" then it is apparently prepared to end now?

I mean, if Wilson had truly wanted to see to it that this team left Buffalo either soon or following his passing, and if he truly wanted it to seem that he was making his best effort to put a winning team on the field, and if yet truly wanted to see the team fail so miserably, ...

... could he possibly have engineered the effort any better behind the scenes or w/o anyone knowing or suspecting?

Why would he do that, or what's in it for him you might ask? Plenty.

First of all, money for his family, none of whom desire to run/manage/own the team when he departs. He can clearly get a lot more from selling the team to a group desiring to move it away from Buffalo.

Second, presently he's the only owner that the NFL has ever seen in Buffalo. By seeing to it that the team leaves, he would cement a nice legacy, at least on paper, and preserve that status.

Third, he continually saves some money by spending much less on a head coach and assistants. He obviously can only spend "so little" on players due to the salcap rules there, but the money he saves on coaches goes into his pocket.

Wilson's days as a viable NFL team owner are long over, or, he's been playing us all for fools for a while now.

I don't think it is intentional - I just think the game passed him by a long time ago. Let's face it - he's what, 89, 90? Kudos to him for being as alert as he is but that's not enough to be an NFL owner.

[YardRat]

Ralph's truly a genius...I'm looking forward to the explanation on how he masterminded all the injuries.

[gr8slayer]

Ralph's truly a genius...I'm looking forward to the explanation on how he masterminded all the injuries.
I'm looking forward to all the bad economy excuses for Ralph.

[Typ0]

If he cares about the team being in buffalo like he says...then why does he refuse to sell the team or even talk to local people? That has me perplexed.

[chernobylwraiths]

If he cares about the team being in buffalo like he says...then why does he refuse to sell the team or even talk to local people? That has me perplexed.

How hard is it to figure out he wants to keep the team till he dies? He bought it, and wants to see HIS team win. Sure, I think he wants to keep the team in Buffalo, but not at the expense of giving it away. He has spent millions to get this team better (Dockery, Walker, Kelsay, Schobel, etc...) and it hasn't completely worked out. Anybody who says he WANTS the team to lose is an idiot. He might not have made the best personel moves, but I don't think for a second he doesn't want to win and win now.

[gr8slayer]

If he cares about the team being in buffalo like he says...then why does he refuse to sell the team or even talk to local people? That has me perplexed.
Because he doesn't care. He's a greedy, self-centered ****.

[ajsdx]

Wy has certainly been right on quite a few things over the years, but far from everything. (Rob Johnson, Travis Brown, & Shawn Bryson to name a few). I don't necessarily think this scenario is out of the realm of possibility, but it's not likely. I doubt Ralph really wants to hurt the value and profitability of his franchise by having them suck for 8 consecutive seasons, or whatever it's been at this point. He very well might move them, or sell to ownership that will, but I don't necessarily think it was a mastermind scheme to suck for years to make it happen.

That seems reasonable. He might want to move the franchise, but if Wys's scenario is correct, he's sacrificing quite a bit of money for personal legacy. Since when do owners care what their ex fanbase thinks? I don't think Irsay, Modell, or even Benson, whose team hasnt' moved yet, care at all. Why would Ralph, especially when it costs him millions of dollars? He would have just moved the team already. Screw "legacies on paper." No one care about that crap.

[SABuffalo786]

Second, presently he's the only owner that the NFL has ever seen in Buffalo. By seeing to it that the team leaves, he would cement a nice legacy, at least on paper, and preserve that status.


A nice legacy? If he holds on this team until death and ensures a non-Buffalo owner moves it elsewhere, the only thing he's cementing is the gallons of Buffalonian spit that will cover his grave.

[PECKERWOOD]

Ralph's truly a genius...I'm looking forward to the explanation on how he masterminded all the injuries.

No kidding. It's just like the JFK conspiracy theory, why does everybody get sucked into such bull****?

[PECKERWOOD]

A nice legacy? If he holds on this team until death and ensures a non-Buffalo owner moves it elsewhere, the only thing he's cementing is the gallons of Buffalonian spit that will cover his grave.

point SABuffalo786 - Wys zero

[Wys Guy]

Piss off. This post#& is a douche!

LOL

Yeah, this type of stuff is right up there with your football knowledge.

;)

I can truly say Hammer, you deserve this team, you really, really do.

[Wys Guy]

Homers, go **** yourself.

Wys has been dead on in his assessment of this ****ty team for years now.

LOL

Thanks raphael!!

These guys would rather drink a five-gallon pail of battery acid than to admit the realities in that way.

Also, for most of 'em you can go back and find all kinds of posts talking about how they "trust" Marv, Donadope, Williams, Gilbride, Jauron, etc.

Essentially a log string of LOSERs. Then they get shocked when they come here and lose some more.

They, unlike you and others, deserve this team.

[Wys Guy]

I could care less if he is right or not, don't come to a Bills board and call people morons for supporting their team, which is what he has done for years. It's all in the delivery, mine might not be great but his is much worse.

You know Hammer, you just hate me, face it. Come on, be man enough to just say it. You're two-faced for sure.

Either way, please find where I even wrote the word "moron" in this thread?

Here's a suggestion, go to your local school board and see if they have any spare 4th grade reading comprehension books for you to brush up with. Also, ask for a refund of your English class portion of your parents' school taxes. I doubt they'll give them back to you, but at least you can file a formal complaint that they went for naught.

I mean are you that much of a loser that you, along with others, need to continually make up and pretend that I say/write things that I just plainly don't write? Please, do tell.

[Wys Guy]

How hard is it to figure out he wants to keep the team till he dies? He bought it, and wants to see HIS team win. Sure, I think he wants to keep the team in Buffalo, but not at the expense of giving it away. He has spent millions to get this team better (Dockery, Walker, Kelsay, Schobel, etc...) and it hasn't completely worked out. Anybody who says he WANTS the team to lose is an idiot. He might not have made the best personel moves, but I don't think for a second he doesn't want to win and win now.

Yeah, I know. I'm sure he'd take a real bath now having bought the team for $25K. That's "K," as in thousands.

[Wys Guy]

Ralph's truly a genius...I'm looking forward to the explanation on how he masterminded all the injuries.

Rat, when you consider it, if you ever have, we've had so incredibly few injuries over the last few years that in at least one year we had the fewest man-games lost to injuries of any team in the league. In at least another year, if not first in that way, we were second. Last year we didn't even average out there.

Leave it for Bills fans to start squabbling over injuries to players like Everett, Webster, Ellison, Simpson, Denney, etc. that somehow that's a real blow to our team. Just the fact that anyone thinks this way should reveal how pathetic our team was/is to begin with.

[Wys Guy]

That seems reasonable. He might want to move the franchise, but if Wys's scenario is correct, he's sacrificing quite a bit of money for personal legacy. Since when do owners care what their ex fanbase thinks? I don't think Irsay, Modell, or even Benson, whose team hasnt' moved yet, care at all. Why would Ralph, especially when it costs him millions of dollars? He would have just moved the team already. Screw "legacies on paper." No one care about that crap.

You're wrong. The value of teams has gone up nearly astronomically over the last decade or so. The longer he waits, the more it's worth, and therefore, in connecting the dots, the more he will get upon its sale.

Just like most other products; If you sell them in D.C., Boston, or NYC, you get more for it than if you sell it in Buffalo. It's called cost-of-living generally speaking.

It's costing him nothing, and in fact his family will GAIN by waiting.

As to Ralph's personal legacy, how should I know what's important to him. As if he'd be the first person to ever have walked the earth who cares about their legacy post-mordem. To the same, you have no idea either.

Either way, my point was not that Ralph has in fact planned all of this, but truly questioning, ... exactly what the question asks; namely, could he have done a better job.

IMO I almost think, if I were him, that I'd rather have people believe that the last vestiges of brain cells haven't been leaking out of his ears during daily dozes.

[Wys Guy]

A nice legacy? If he holds on this team until death and ensures a non-Buffalo owner moves it elsewhere, the only thing he's cementing is the gallons of Buffalonian spit that will cover his grave.

I'm sorry, you're right.

If he holds onto the team until death and a non-Buffalo owner moves it elsewhere, he won't be the only owner to ever have had a team in Buffalo.

Thanks for squaring me away using your superior intellect and by outwitting me.

Some of you guys really need to learn about logic.

[Wys Guy]

Nice to see everyone's in such a good mood here.

Where have all the good time Sallies gone?

Whatever happened to all the hooply about Levy, Jauron, Fairchild by some of you?

Fair weather fans!!! Tsk, tsk, tsk. You call yourselves fans. What kinds of fans talk like this.

You know who you are, and you all deserve this team. You were made for each other. LOL

[justasportsfan]

When TD was brought in he was very highly respected arround the league. When we brought in players like Spikes , Fletch and Drew, etc. everyone sang praises. Ralph paid a lot of money then to bring in these players.

To go with Malarkey and GW was not Ralphy's decision. So it'stupid to think Ralphy is setting this team to lose.

And Raphael, STFU if you're going to be making personal attacks and no, wys isn't always dead on . Get your facts straight.

[Wys Guy]

When TD was brought in he was very highly respected arround the league. When we brought in players like Spikes , Fletch and Drew, etc. everyone sang praises. Ralph paid a lot of money then to bring in these players.

To go with Malarkey and GW was not Ralphy's decision. So it'stupid to think Ralphy is setting this team to lose.

And Raphael, STFU if you're going to be making personal attacks and no, wys isn't always dead on . Get your facts straight.

Right. You lecturing anyone on facts is like the KGB lecturing people on openness.

No, in fact TD wasn't highly respected around the league. He was respected in media circles. If you knew about facts, then you'd know about my position on the matter, and oh, by the way, Mark Madden's in Pittsburgh who said the same things in print, about Donadope.

You are a used car salesman's wet dream. Whatever they say in Buffalo is king. It's truly unbelieveable. It's no wonder you have no idea what facts are since you collect them all at utterly biased sources.

In fact, I'd wager, good money too, that of your last 100 posts, there isn't more than five, that actually has any "facts" in it. I'm not gonna bother to waste my time on that.

Just keep your checkbook open for the end of the season, eh. Between you, Mike, and Lechter, the only ones that took me up, I may lose one wager, the one about McCargo's foot getting reinjured. As well, Lecther will be writing his checks to Hunter's Hope.

Your's will be applied to wings and beer.

Thanks for playing however! And keep bringing me your facts. I like them. I can always use a few extra bucks. BTW, wanna double, triple, or ten-tuple up factboy?

[Wys Guy]

It's funny how certain things are only "respected" in Buffalo.

LMAO

Could be a part of the problem.

[chernobylwraiths]

Yeah, I know. I'm sure he'd take a real bath now having bought the team for $25K. That's "K," as in thousands.

I'm sure he knows he can take it with him too.

[BidsJr]

WYS go back to where you were. The attacking of posters by you is rediculas. You think that you are of superior intellect because the Bills lost 7 starters to injury is pretty low. Then you can trash posters that have some hope in this franchise.

The "mods" at this point are MIA, and I hope to see them soon. Hopefully they will extinguish you and your venom.

[bflojohn]

By the way, I do deserve this team, because I steadfastly support them win or lose! That, by definition, is the essence of being a fan! The denegration of the so called fair weather fans is a lousy thing to be associated with, in my opinion, and logic has its place in stock management and business dealings. However, love of team ultimately is the highest ideal in sports! I choose to love the Buffalo Bills, as my team, and laughing at me, IF you are an actual fan, is lowly and yes, cowardly to boot!! One day, they may win the Super Bowl, and I expect you, sir, will be nowhere to be found. Oh, unless your dizzying intellect decrees it to be so beforehand!!

[SABuffalo786]

I'm sorry, you're right.

If he holds onto the team until death and a non-Buffalo owner moves it elsewhere, he won't be the only owner to ever have had a team in Buffalo.

Thanks for squaring me away using your superior intellect and by outwitting me.

Some of you guys really need to learn about logic.



You know what I meant.

You really need to learn about not being a dickhead.

[northernbillfan]

Personal attacks from anyone towards anyone will NOT be tolerated.

Mark, tone it down a bit when replying to people's posts. If they see you attacking, then they will attack back. Many of your comments were over the line, even for you.

Hammer, two points and a week off for your unprovoked attack towards Wys.
Wys four points for your attacks on others.
SABuffalo two points for name calling.

People need to realize we are all passionate about our team, Wys is just one of the more half empty glass of water type of fan. His love for the team is not any less than yours.

ATTACK THE POST AND NOT THE POSTER.

[MikeNC]

I don't think it is intentional - I just think the game passed him by a long time ago. Let's face it - he's what, 89, 90? Kudos to him for being as alert as he is but that's not enough to be an NFL owner.

I agree....I am hoping that Marv would have seen through any plan to move the team...

[Historian]

Third, he continually saves some money by spending much less on a head coach and assistants. He obviously can only spend "so little" on players due to the salcap rules there, but the money he saves on coaches goes into his pocket.


I would like to address several pionts here, but Im at work so it will have to wait.

The above is my personal pet peeve with the man.

Bargain basement coaches.

Don't count against the cap, but we still pinch pennies on HCs. If he truly wants to win right now, fly to new York, and offer Bill Parcells whatever he wants, and run all these guys out of town.

That won't happen. Instead we'll get three more years of Jauron, (who I felt was a good "fit" here) then the next stiff....and so one...and so forth...

[justasportsfan]

Right. You lecturing anyone on facts is like the KGB lecturing people on openness.

No, in fact TD wasn't highly respected around the league. He was respected in media circles. If you knew about facts, then you'd know about my position on the matter, and oh, by the way, Mark Madden's in Pittsburgh who said the same things in print, about Donadope.

You are a used car salesman's wet dream. Whatever they say in Buffalo is king. It's truly unbelieveable. It's no wonder you have no idea what facts are since you collect them all at utterly biased sources.

In fact, I'd wager, good money too, that of your last 100 posts, there isn't more than five, that actually has any "facts" in it. I'm not gonna bother to waste my time on that.

Just keep your checkbook open for the end of the season, eh. Between you, Mike, and Lechter, the only ones that took me up, I may lose one wager, the one about McCargo's foot getting reinjured. As well, Lecther will be writing his checks to Hunter's Hope.

Your's will be applied to wings and beer.

Thanks for playing however! And keep bringing me your facts. I like them. I can always use a few extra bucks. BTW, wanna double, triple, or ten-tuple up factboy?


Where did I claim I'm always dead on or that everything I say is fact? :huh: However isn't it ironic that my saying you're not always dead on IS FACT !

[superbills]

I'm sorry, you're right.

If he holds onto the team until death and a non-Buffalo owner moves it elsewhere, he won't be the only owner to ever have had a team in Buffalo.

Thanks for squaring me away using your superior intellect and by outwitting me.

Some of you guys really need to learn about logic.

This is true, however most of are in the know enough to understand that the move may have been avoided had Ralph sold the team while he still had a controlling interest. The fact that it's a different owner moving the team is moot. Ralph's unwillingness to resolve the ownership issue that will arise once he departs this Earth is what fans will be spitting on him for.

[Gunzlingr]

If you take away all the big contracts Ralph has paid to guys like spikes, Fletcher, Dockery, et al, he is the cheapest owner in the league!

[casdhf]

Points, Matthew. POINTS!!!

[Jan Reimers]

I think Ralph was on that grassy knoll in Dallas back in November of '63, too.

[Throne Logic]

Conspiracy theorists unite!

Ralph is secretly lowering the value of his franchise so Jim Kelly can afford the monthly payments. . .

[gr8slayer]

If you take away all the big contracts Ralph has paid to guys like spikes, Fletcher, Dockery, et al, he is the cheapest owner in the league!
48 years and that's all you can come up with? Three players? Natural born losers unite! BTW, Fletcher never got a "big contract"

[Buffatexas]

Hey Wys....Tell me something if you will, you used this comment at least twice during this post..."you or they deserve this team"... I always thought that a true fan would ride with their team win or lose, bad coach or not, competent owner or not. Sure we can be ticked off as fans, especially those who have grown up with this team and continue to support it. But when you say things like "you or they deserve this team", well then that tells me that you surely dont deserve this team and well, if you dont deserve it, then quit torturing yourself and leave it. The Bills won't miss you.

[gr8slayer]

Hey Wys....Tell me something if you will, you used this comment at least twice during this post..."you or they deserve this team"... I always thought that a true fan would ride with their team win or lose, bad coach or not, competent owner or not. Sure we can be ticked off as fans, especially those who have grown up with this team and continue to support it. But when you say things like "you or they deserve this team", well then that tells me that you surely dont deserve this team and well, if you dont deserve it, then quit torturing yourself and leave it. The Bills won't miss you.
:goodpost:

[PECKERWOOD]

Hey Wys....Tell me something if you will, you used this comment at least twice during this post..."you or they deserve this team"... I always thought that a true fan would ride with their team win or lose, bad coach or not, competent owner or not. Sure we can be ticked off as fans, especially those who have grown up with this team and continue to support it. But when you say things like "you or they deserve this team", well then that tells me that you surely dont deserve this team and well, if you dont deserve it, then quit torturing yourself and leave it. The Bills won't miss you.

:bf1:

[Typ0]

Hey Wys....Tell me something if you will, you used this comment at least twice during this post..."you or they deserve this team"... I always thought that a true fan would ride with their team win or lose, bad coach or not, competent owner or not. Sure we can be ticked off as fans, especially those who have grown up with this team and continue to support it. But when you say things like "you or they deserve this team", well then that tells me that you surely dont deserve this team and well, if you dont deserve it, then quit torturing yourself and leave it. The Bills won't miss you.

all of the people in western new york deserve a respectable team being fielded.

If you are one of the people who runs out and buys season tickets and merchandise and spends $$$ at the stadium after boneheaded decision after boneheaded decision then I agree with WYS you do deserve to be a fan of a losing team. From a business perspective, and it is a business, if you get the same amount of revenues from spending 100 M$ compared to 150 M$ then you go with the 100 M$. You are an enabler and part of the problem not the solution.

[Typ0]

I think Ralph was on that grassy knoll in Dallas back in November of '63, too.

was he just there or did he pull a trigger?