So what will the league do about .....

[Mahdi]

Vince Wilfork. That was a vicious cheap-shot! Worse than Kimo's hit on Palmer. If we had done that to Brady every news cast would be replaying it and calling it dispicable. I havent heard or seen anything about the hit even from the commentators during the game. They never mentioned why JP was out like you would normally hear during the course of a game like " and JP Losman is out of the game after the vicious hit by Wilfork ended his day" or something like that. There better be some action by the league. What do you think is a fair punishment?

[55]

jesus will you people stop whining about this? the nfl has already ruled it wilfork was blocked into jp. get over it!




Post edited. Name calling is not allowed. ~Cntrygal

[Ickybaluky]

This is silly. Wilfork was shoved and off balance, it wasn't intentional.

Why would they want Losman out of the game anyway? He isn't good enough to try and take out of a game.

[Mahdi]

This is silly. Wilfork was shoved and off balance, it wasn't intentional.

Why would they want Losman out of the game anyway? He isn't good enough to try and take out of a game.
Do u always stick out your elbow when yer knocked off balance?

[Ickybaluky]

Do u always stick out your elbow when yer knocked off balance?

He was falling down, it is instinct to reach out towards the player. He was off balance, it wasn't like it was pre-meditated.

[Mahdi]

He was falling down, it is instinct to reach out towards the player. He was off balance, it wasn't like it was pre-meditated.
He may have been knocked off balance whatever.... he still stuck out his elbow.

[55]

come on man,he's a 300 plus pound man going full force and was blocked into jp,all we're doing is looking for some other reason to biich other than the real problems with this team!!!!!!!!

[HHURRICANE]

This is silly. Wilfork was shoved and off balance, it wasn't intentional.

Why would they want Losman out of the game anyway? He isn't good enough to try and take out of a game.

Stop posting the "don't blame me that my team is a bunch of low life cheaters." You obviously are of the same character.

[Ickybaluky]

You people are rediculous. I know it is frustrating when your team is losing, but do you ever watch the game?

That play happens all the time, and blaming Wilfork is silly. He was off-balance after being shoved, how the hell is he going to do something pre-meditated.

Why would they want Losman out of the game anyway? He isn't good enough to take out of a game. Edwards may be a rookie, but he may be good. With Losman they know what they have and it is hardly anything to be feared.

[Mr. Cynical]

Do u always stick out your elbow when yer knocked off balance?

:10:

[patmoran2006]

It was avoidable, I dont care what you say.

Doesnt matter how ****ty Losman is or how good NE is; It was a ****ing cheap shot.

[Nighthawk]

You people are rediculous. I know it is frustrating when your team is losing, but do you ever watch the game?

That play happens all the time, and blaming Wilfork is silly. He was off-balance after being shoved, how the hell is he going to do something pre-meditated.

Why would they want Losman out of the game anyway? He isn't good enough to take out of a game. Edwards may be a rookie, but he may be good. With Losman they know what they have and it is hardly anything to be feared.

I agree with some of what you say, but stop sounding like such a homer. I could careless if he gets suspended, but don't make it sound like your team is a bunch of halo wearing individuals.

[don137]

This is silly. Wilfork was shoved and off balance, it wasn't intentional.

Why would they want Losman out of the game anyway? He isn't good enough to try and take out of a game.
I truly respect your posts but their is no way the hit was not intentional. If you are knocked off balance you reach out with you hand to brace for the fall. You don't lead and brace your fall with your elbow.

[YardRat]

Do u always stick out your elbow when yer knocked off balance?

Bingo. We have a winner.

[ajsdx]

You people are rediculous. I know it is frustrating when your team is losing, but do you ever watch the game?

That play happens all the time, and blaming Wilfork is silly. He was off-balance after being shoved, how the hell is he going to do something pre-meditated.

Why would they want Losman out of the game anyway? He isn't good enough to take out of a game. Edwards may be a rookie, but he may be good. With Losman they know what they have and it is hardly anything to be feared.

To quote some of your fellow pats fans on patsfans.com's MB,



Let me put my non-homer hat on.

It was intentional. There is no way he was trying to brace himself. You don't brace yourself by extending your elbow that far so you can land on your armpit.




I hate to say it....but it did look alittle dirty to me

[gr8slayer]

What will the NFL do? Based on what they did with "Spy Gate," not a whole lot.

[Ickybaluky]

I agree with some of what you say, but stop sounding like such a homer. I could careless if he gets suspended, but don't make it sound like your team is a bunch of halo wearing individuals.

That isn't what I'm trying to say. I'm not defending the Patriots, leave them out of it. That play was not a cheap shot. It is hard enough to play the game, but to think he could react like that while falling down is silly.

It wasn't a good play. He hit the QB low and got a penalty (he will get fined as well). However, to think he did it on purpose is silly. He was off balance and reacted, there was no pre-meditated thought. It happens all the time.

It is unfortunate that it worked out that Losman got injured, but it is part of the game.

[MikeInRoch]

Sure, he didn't come into the game thinking "I'm going to take out Losman.". But it was clearly his intention in that split second where he got the opportunity.

[don137]

That isn't what I'm trying to say. I'm not defending the Patriots, leave them out of it. That play was not a cheap shot. It is hard enough to play the game, but to think he could react like that while falling down is silly.

It wasn't a good play. He hit the QB low and got a penalty (he will get fined as well). However, to think he did it on purpose is silly. He was off balance and reacted, there was no pre-meditated thought. It happens all the time.

It is unfortunate that it worked out that Losman got injured, but it is part of the game.

Show me video of Wolfork falling down in the past and bracing his fall with his elbows and not his hands and I may believe you. People brace fall by reaching out with their hands not their elbows.

[don137]

Why would they want Losman out of the game anyway? He isn't good enough to take out of a game. Edwards may be a rookie, but he may be good. With Losman they know what they have and it is hardly anything to be feared.

We said Wolfork is dirty. We never said he was smart...

[Kerr]

Goddell will deal with him and stick another dagger through the patriots. Maybe that will shake them up a bit.

[Mr. Cynical]

Show me video of Wolfork falling down in the past and bracing his fall with his elbows and not his hands and I may believe you. People brace fall by reaching out with their hands not their elbows.

:10:

[HAMMER]

It looked pretty obvious to me and the other fifty people I watched the game with, he went after his knee!

[gr8slayer]

Goddell will deal with him and stick another dagger through the patriots. Maybe that will shake them up a bit.
No he won't, did you see the way he handled the cheating? He's afraid of them.

[Mr. Cynical]

Goddell will deal with him and stick another dagger through the patriots. Maybe that will shake them up a bit.

Don't count on it - he may fine them/him but money means ZERO to a team like the Pats. The only way to deal with them is to SUSPEND, and Goddell isn't going to do that because it might impact their play, and that would cut down the money tree / media darlings of the NFL.

[Devin]

:yawn:

[Michael82]

To quote some of your fellow pats fans on patsfans.com's MB,
Thanks for sharing! At least some pats fans aren't afraid to admit that they cheer for a dirty, cheating team! :bf1:

[Nighthawk]

That isn't what I'm trying to say. I'm not defending the Patriots, leave them out of it. That play was not a cheap shot. It is hard enough to play the game, but to think he could react like that while falling down is silly.

It wasn't a good play. He hit the QB low and got a penalty (he will get fined as well). However, to think he did it on purpose is silly. He was off balance and reacted, there was no pre-meditated thought. It happens all the time.

It is unfortunate that it worked out that Losman got injured, but it is part of the game.

Ok, after seeing it over and over again, I am now fully in agreement with people who call it a cheap shot. If you can't see that he throws his elbow out at the last minute to put it into Losman's knee, then you are blind!

[Whaler53]

Show me video of Wolfork falling down in the past and bracing his fall with his elbows and not his hands and I may believe you. People brace fall by reaching out with their hands not their elbows.

Actually, guys his size generally try to avoid bracing their falls with their hands, as that can lead to serious injuries, like a broken arm.

I speak from experience, granted, I'm not as large as Vince, but I am quite big, and somewhat athletic. I was always taught the proper way to go down is by breaking a fall with your forearms/palms.

Vince was blocked into JP, he got flagged...it was a low hit, but not a dirty hit like some are claiming.

End of story

[SquishDaFish]

IT was a DIRTY Cheap shot PERIOD. And if you dont see it that way your too much of a homer. Every Pats fan I talked to agreed. Think about it JP was talking to the media earlier in the week about how he thinks the Pats cheated also. And opening series when an opp came a player took it plain and simple. They would of beat us bad anyway so we are not saying thats the reason we lost. There is just no need for that **** in the NFL PERIOD!!

[Mr. Pink]

You do all realize that if Wilfork was truly trying to hurt Losman, he woulda either A. tried to go in shoulder first or...
B. Fully extended his arm to get more force into the hit and attempt to grab the knee and/or leg or...
C. Made sure he hit the ground and then rolled into JP.

Either of those three woulda made an injury to the QB more likely.

The play was flagged on the field because of where he hit Losman and he most likely will be fined. Fact of the matter is he extended his arm in a natural fashion to brace his fall. It's much better to fall on your forearm that has a lot more bulk and strength then to land on your hand, which I've seen some suggest is the proper way to fall down.

Speaking from experience on the matter, if I ever lose balance by skating, getting hit or whatever...I'm never going down hand first to brace my fall again. Back in my younger days while skating my feet went out from under me, I fell back, put my hand down to brace my fall and after breaking my wrist and thumb in about 6 places I learned that isn't the wisest choice.

Think about, your wrist is a lot weaker than your forearm and can't take the full brunt of someone's weight as much as the forearm. Watching the hit it's obvious, he's extending his arm to land forearm on the ground to brace his fall. Unfortunately he ended up catching Losman in the knee.

It is what it is, a freak occurance, not something dirty or cheap.

[SquishDaFish]

Fun your crazy. I see your points but your wrong. Watch it again and in slowMO if you can. I have some DIEHARD Pats fans in my class at school and they mentioned it to me before I even brought it up as being Dirty.

[GarnOFreak]

Has anyone gotten a quote from Wilfork yet on it? It is just coincidentally weird that it happened the first play of the game.

here's what I would like to see as penalties (not that they'll happen, but...)

1.)we get a draft pick from the Pats.

2.)Wilfork is fined, suspended and has to publically apologize to JP for the hit.

3.)Other Teams take it upon themselves to get blocked into Brady and see how the Pats fans like seeing their hopes for the season go up in flames. Yeah, we had little chance to win the game, but after the cheap shot heard round the world (did ya catch the whole New England Colonial period reference there?) we had none. Rookie QB without any 1st team reps steps in to take on the #1 Defense in the league with no one behind him on the roster, zero chance.

[mybills]

You people are rediculous. I know it is frustrating when your team is losing

I know they sell strong coffee here in New England, and you really need to wake up and smell it. Even if the Bills WON, it was a cheap shot and intentional. He should've been ejected from the game the second everyone saw it on the jumbotron(s) there's two at Gillette, right? One on each end of the field.

:cgal:

[Ickybaluky]

Has anyone gotten a quote from Wilfork yet on it? It is just coincidentally weird that it happened the first play of the game.

LINK (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/25/hanson_a_good_foot_soldier/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+New+England+Patriots+news)


Nose tackle Vince Wilfork said on WEEI yesterday that he is expecting a fine for his hit on the knee of Buffalo quarterback J.P. Losman. Wilfork, who was falling to the ground, hit Losman on the left knee with a forearm on Buffalo's first offensive snap. Losman was forced to leave the game after the series and was diagnosed with a sprained left knee. "I'm a defensive player and I'm playing football," said Wilfork. "It is what it is. I can't argue the fact. I did hit him low. I'm pretty sure the NFL will have something coming, a FedEx in my locker this week." Wilfork said he would fight a fine and object to the notion that it was a dirty play. "I've been playing this game for a long time, from Pop Warner until now," he said, "and I've never been classified as a dirty player."

[HHURRICANE]

No he won't, did you see the way he handled the cheating? He's afraid of them.

Yep, I agree. They know the Pats were screwing around with the frequency and radios but the league can't afford anymore bad publicity on a team that won 3 Superbowls recently.

I'll be surprised if the league does anything on Wilfork substantial.

[don137]

LINK (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/25/hanson_a_good_foot_soldier/?rss_id=Boston.com+--+New+England+Patriots+news)

LOL...I guess if the person in question says it isn't dirty then he is innocent of all charges...What is he suppose to say, "yea, I was trying to take him out. Since we are known as cheaters throughout the league we mine as well play dirty and try to take out the opposition."

[Ickybaluky]

I know they sell strong coffee here in New England, and you really need to wake up and smell it. Even if the Bills WON, it was a cheap shot and intentional. He should've been ejected from the game the second everyone saw it on the jumbotron(s) there's two at Gillette, right? One on each end of the field.

I think it is funny people think they know intent. Do you read minds? The guy was falling down and hit Losman on the knee. Is that a penalty? Yes. Will he get fined? Yes. That is the same thing that happens whenever a QB gets hit in the legs.

Is it cheap? No. In fact, it happens all the time. Lineman fall into a QBs legs all the time, this wasn't an unusual play. To think it was on purpose is silly, IMO. He was trying to get to the QB and ended up hitting him in the knee. It was a reaction, he didn't have time to think about it. All a guy is thinking about is getting to the QB to disrupt the play, and in this case Vince landed awkwardly and ended up hitting him on the knee while falling. He wasn't trying to injure him, just hit him. It just happened that he hit him too low, but it happens so fast you don't have time to think about that.

This is a perfect example of the pussification of the NFL. Everyone is so up in arms about protecting the QB. That leads to guys being so scared of getting penalties or fines and backing off. It is hurting the game.

It seems to me the players are the ones to police hits they feel were dirty, and I didn't see any Buffalo players trying to take it out on Vince. The players in the game knew it wasn't on purpose, which is why there was no retribution.

[Mahdi]

I think it is funny people think they know intent. Do you read minds? The guy was falling down and hit Losman on the knee. Is that a penalty? Yes. Will he get fined? Yes. That is the same thing that happens whenever a QB gets hit in the legs.

Is it cheap? No. In fact, it happens all the time. Lineman fall into a QBs legs all the time, this wasn't an unusual play. To think it was on purpose is silly, IMO. He was trying to get to the QB and ended up hitting him in the knee. It was a reaction, he didn't have time to think about it. All a guy is thinking about is getting to the QB to disrupt the play, and in this case Vince landed awkwardly and ended up hitting him on the knee while falling. He wasn't trying to injure him, just hit him. It just happened that he hit him too low, but it happens so fast you don't have time to think about that.

This is a perfect example of the pussification of the NFL. Everyone is so up in arms about protecting the QB. That leads to guys being so scared of getting penalties or fines and backing off. It is hurting the game.

It seems to me the players are the ones to police hits they feel were dirty, and I didn't see any Buffalo players trying to take it out on Vince. The players in the game knew it wasn't on purpose, which is why there was no retribution.
Why do you insist on ignoring the FACT that he used his ELBOW. If you are falling and off balance you dont reach out with your elbow you reach out with your hand.

[Ickybaluky]

Why do you insist on ignoring the FACT that he used his ELBOW. If you are falling and off balance you dont reach out with your elbow you reach out with your hand.

He hit him with his elbow because he as trying to hit the QB. That is his job. However, his being off balance and falling caused the blow to land on Losman's knee. That is the unfortunate part, and the reason for the flag (and ultimately, the fine). However, to say he was going for the knees is silly, given he didn't even have time to plan such a thing. It wasn't like he was un-blocked.

This is a play that happens a lot. When a guy is going for the QB while being blocked, sometimes he hits him in the wrong spot. Last night, Antwan Odom was rushing Drew Brees from the outside and ended up getting his facemask and nearly twisting his head off. He didn't intend to get his facemask, but while reaching out for the QB his hand landed there while being blocked. He was flagged and will probably be fined.

I'm not saying it wasn't a penalty, however it is a leap of logic to say it was on purpose. It was an agressive football play that had unintended consequences and unfortunately lead to Losman getting hurt. However, it happens in the game. If you don't want it to happen, then you can't play. It is a violent game.

If the Bills thought it was done on purpose there would have been retribution. There was none, because they knew it wasn't on purpose. It could have happened to anyone.

[Whaler53]

Why do you insist on ignoring the FACT that he used his ELBOW. If you are falling and off balance you dont reach out with your elbow you reach out with your hand.

Yeah, and when you reach out with your hand, especially when you are 300+ pounds, you have a very good chance of breaking your wrist/arm.

I'll tell you what, go to a martial arts class, or a pro wrestling school, or somewhere that teaches you how to fall. And then when you do take a fall, stick your hand down to brace your fall and watch what happens.

If you actually understood the physics of a fall and the kinesiology of the human body, you would understand that sticking your hand out to brace for a fall is the stupidest thing that you can do.

[Ickybaluky]

BTW, don't give me this "if it had been Brady" argument. If it had been Brady I'd say the same thing. I have no control over players getting injured, only Patrick as that control.

It has happened to Brady before, when Lee Flowers rolled on his ankle in the AFC Championship game in 2001. He sprained it in the first half and Bledsoe had to finish the game (although Brady did return for the Super Bowl). Do I think what Flower's did was dirty? No. Flowers was crawling after being blocked, trying to get to the QB and ended up rolling up Brady's legs. There wasn't even a flag on the play, because the penalty of hitting a QB low wasn't in place yet. It was just a football play, and unfortunately someone was injured. It wasn't cheap.

[DraftBoy]

NE your wasting your time, to most Bills fan the hit was cheap, dirty, intentional, and intended to try and end Losman's season. Unfortunately thats not the case and this fascination with it and the Pats in general is a compliment to New England's dominance. The fact that a normal football play is being called dirty is ridiculous. You wanna see dirty, the hit Mo Lewis put on our sliding QB years ago was a dirty hit, this was not. Just let it go guys your fighting a losing battle.

[SquishDaFish]

Every logical football fan and EVERY PATS fan in the Massachusetts area I live are telling me all the time it was dirty. I didnt even have to bring it up. IT WAS A DIRTY PLAY PERIOD!

[mybills]

The players in the game knew it wasn't on purpose, which is why there was no retribution.
YET.

[Whaler53]

It wasn't a dirty play, all this is is just a bunch of fans jumping up and down, having a temper tantrum because the big bad Pats pushed their team around.....again.

Get over it, you're embarrassing yourselves

[Mahdi]

It wasn't a dirty play, all this is is just a bunch of fans jumping up and down, having a temper tantrum because the big bad Pats pushed their team around.....again.

Get over it, you're embarrassing yourselves
It was a dirty play, Stampsies, no take-backs, throw away the key! There!

[Michael82]

Every logical football fan and EVERY PATS fan in the Massachusetts area I live are telling me all the time it was dirty. I didnt even have to bring it up. IT WAS A DIRTY PLAY PERIOD!
:bf1:

[mybills]

I'd be just as adamant about saying dirty, cheap, and intentional, if it were a Bills player that did it. But it just so happens that it was a NE player that did it. There's no justifying it. :down:

[Jan Reimers]

I think the league should give Wilfork some therapy in properly bracing himself when he falls.

If he keeps leading with the point of his elbow, he could eventually hurt himself, not to mention the others - like JP - who are at risk from his improper self-protection technique.

[DarbyTheDinosaur]

come on man,he's a 300 plus pound man going full force and was blocked into jp,all we're doing is looking for some other reason to biich other than the real problems with this team!!!!!!!!

What is this we stuff? Isn't it obvious that you are a Patsies fan? Seau is your favorite linebacker and you have foxborough listed as mecca. Stop trolling.

[justasportsfan]

the nfl has already ruled it wilfork was blocked into jp.

Just like the NFL ruled the tuck rule as not a fumble or that kelsay's fine last week where there were no penalties was indeed a late hit according to the nfl.

We get it, the Pats own the NFl.

[Ickybaluky]

I have no control over players getting injured, only Patrick as that control.

I slipped that in, and nobody even noticed.

I don't care what people say, I still think the majority of posts in this thread are a bunch of woosies. He was trying to hit the guy and was off-balance. As a result, he hit him in the wrong spot. It happens all the time.

[MikeInRoch]

Even if that IS the case - it's STILL a cheap shot. Because the ball was long gone, and he shouldn't have been trying to hit him.

I'm sorry that your homerism has blinded you.

[SquishDaFish]

He lead with the point of his damn elbow. Your are the first and ONLY pats fan Ive heard not agree it was a dirty shot

[Jan Reimers]

Yeah, and when you reach out with your hand, especially when you are 300+ pounds, you have a very good chance of breaking your wrist/arm.

I'll tell you what, go to a martial arts class, or a pro wrestling school, or somewhere that teaches you how to fall. And then when you do take a fall, stick your hand down to brace your fall and watch what happens.

If you actually understood the physics of a fall and the kinesiology of the human body, you would understand that sticking your hand out to brace for a fall is the stupidest thing that you can do.
So, Mr. Martial Arts, you would break your fall with the point of your elbow?

[Devin]

This is such a lame argument.

Ive seen the play a dozen times, i dont believe it was intentional and what little of it looked suspect........well...........its a 300+ pound DT falling pretty fast id stick my arm out to.

There isnt a player outside our punter that intimidates anyone much less the freakin pats, losman isnt a threat to most college teams much less them.

Quit over-reacting.

[Mahdi]

I slipped that in, and nobody even noticed.

I don't care what people say, I still think the majority of posts in this thread are a bunch of woosies. He was trying to hit the guy and was off-balance. As a result, he hit him in the wrong spot. It happens all the time.
Man seriously, how many times and by how many ppl does it have to be said. It has NOTHING to do with the fact that he was off balance or even that he hit him in the wrong spot. Its the FACT that he stuck out his ELBOW. No one sticks out an ELBOW to break a fall.

[don137]

So, Mr. Martial Arts, you would break your fall with the point of your elbow?
Exactly, but I guess since he is such an expert with the human body he knows if you lead with your elbow the way Wilfork did to brace his fall is how collar bones are broken because at impact from a fall on your elbow the way Wilfork did the collar bone absorbs the impact.

[DraftBoy]

This is such a lame argument.

Ive seen the play a dozen times, i dont believe it was intentional and what little of it looked suspect........well...........its a 300+ pound DT falling pretty fast id stick my arm out to.

There isnt a player outside our punter that intimidates anyone much less the freakin pats, losman isnt a threat to most college teams much less them.

Quit over-reacting.


:bf1:

[Wraith]

Yeah, and when you reach out with your hand, especially when you are 300+ pounds, you have a very good chance of breaking your wrist/arm.

I'll tell you what, go to a martial arts class, or a pro wrestling school, or somewhere that teaches you how to fall. And then when you do take a fall, stick your hand down to brace your fall and watch what happens.

If you actually understood the physics of a fall and the kinesiology of the human body, you would understand that sticking your hand out to brace for a fall is the stupidest thing that you can do.

You're partially right. Trying to break your fall with your hands is a great way to break your wrist, especially at that size.

But what you failed to mention in your weird little diatribe is that the correct way to fall is THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what Wilfork did. To absorb the impact of a fall in a way that minimizes injury risk and returns you to a ready position reasonably fast, players are taught to tuck their elbow against their ribcage and their forearm across their chest on the impacted side of the body and slide/roll. This protects against wrist injuries as well as shoulder/rotator cuff injuries.

We actually had a trainer speak to our high school baseball team about this after our left fielder shredded the rotator cuff on his throwing arm after making an off-balance running catch in the outfield and falling awkwardly with his throwing hand out away from his body.

Elbows out = big time risk for shoulder injury.

[OpIv37]

pnwd.

[justasportsfan]

I'll tell you what, go to a martial arts class, or a pro wrestling school, or somewhere that teaches you how to fall. And then when you do take a fall, stick your hand down to brace your fall and watch what happens.

.
Wrong. You roll when you fall. You only use your hands to stop the roll.

Goalie's in scoccer never use their hands to break their fall or they'll break them and these guys dive more than anyone . How do you think POZ broke his arm?

[Ickybaluky]

Man seriously, how many times and by how many ppl does it have to be said. It has NOTHING to do with the fact that he was off balance or even that he hit him in the wrong spot. Its the FACT that he stuck out his ELBOW. No one sticks out an ELBOW to break a fall.

I never said he was trying to break a fall. He was trying to hit him, which is his job. Because he was off-balance the hit was in the knee.

It was stupid play. He was late and hit him in the legs. That is why it drew a flag and will draw a fine as well. However, that happens all the time. There are guys fined every week. How is this play different?

With the speed of the game, sometimes guys hit in a manner that they shouldn't. That is why they have the penalties and fines. However, that doesn't mean he was intentionally trying to injure him. That is nonsense. He was just playing football and made a bad play.

This play is no different from Antwaan Odom almost tearing Drew Brees head off last night when he accidently grabbed his facemask during a rush. He wasn't trying to make an illegal play, but with the speed of the game it happened.

You guys are making a federal case out of something that happens all the time. Is it illegal? Sure, but it happens. It is part of the game. He will get fined for the first time in his career. That doesn't make him dirty or cheap.

[TedMock]

Yeah, and when you reach out with your hand, especially when you are 300+ pounds, you have a very good chance of breaking your wrist/arm.

I'll tell you what, go to a martial arts class, or a pro wrestling school, or somewhere that teaches you how to fall. And then when you do take a fall, stick your hand down to brace your fall and watch what happens.

If you actually understood the physics of a fall and the kinesiology of the human body, you would understand that sticking your hand out to brace for a fall is the stupidest thing that you can do.

Awesome. I can't believe somebody brought pro wrestling into a discussion. It's been many years since I've seen or heard somebody talk about pro wrestling. Wow, am I that old?

[zone]

Just another disgusting, cheap play by a filthy, despicable, and classless organization.

Post Edited.

When you do something like this that can have an impact on a person’s life outside of football it really shows your true colors as a human.

[Whaler53]

Wrong. You roll when you fall. You only use your hands to stop the roll.

Goalie's in scoccer never use their hands to break their fall or they'll break them and these guys dive more than anyone . How do you think POZ broke his arm?

Um, you quoted the part where I was telling you to do the wrong thing and see what happens.......

[Mahdi]

Wrong. You roll when you fall. You only use your hands to stop the roll.

Goalie's in scoccer never use their hands to break their fall or they'll break them and these guys dive more than anyone . How do you think POZ broke his arm?
Kiwaukee Thomas broke Pozs arm not the ground. Watch the play, Thomas flashes across to finish the play and takes out Poz's arm.

[Mahdi]

I never said he was trying to break a fall. He was trying to hit him, which is his job. Because he was off-balance the hit was in the knee.

It was stupid play. He was late and hit him in the legs. That is why it drew a flag and will draw a fine as well. However, that happens all the time. There are guys fined every week. How is this play different?

With the speed of the game, sometimes guys hit in a manner that they shouldn't. That is why they have the penalties and fines. However, that doesn't mean he was intentionally trying to injure him. That is nonsense. He was just playing football and made a bad play.

This play is no different from Antwaan Odom almost tearing Drew Brees head off last night when he accidently grabbed his facemask during a rush. He wasn't trying to make an illegal play, but with the speed of the game it happened.

You guys are making a federal case out of something that happens all the time. Is it illegal? Sure, but it happens. It is part of the game. He will get fined for the first time in his career. That doesn't make him dirty or cheap.
ok NE39... take a look at this clip honestly, not through the lens of a video camera, and tell me that this wasn't intentional.


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?season...&game_id=29231

[Ickybaluky]

ok NE39... take a look at this clip honestly, not through the lens of a video camera, and tell me that this wasn't intentional.

OK, I've looked at the clip a lot of times. He wasn't intentionally trying to hit him in the knee. His intention was to hit him, not to injure him.

It was a bad play. Just like a bunch of similar plays that occur each week in the league. They draw penalties and fines, just like Wilfork. The moral outrage expressed here is silly.

[Mahdi]

OK, I've looked at the clip a lot of times. He wasn't intentionally trying to hit him in the knee. His intention was to hit him, not to injure him.

It was a bad play. Just like a bunch of similar plays that occur each week in the league. They draw penalties and fines, just like Wilfork. The moral outrage expressed here is silly.
Ok you now admit that he was in fact trying to hit him,,,, now with that in mind,,, Wilfork knew he was going to hit him low, AND he used his elbow to do so, which means by definition it was a low-blow!

[DraftBoy]

Watched it again still not intent to injure

[justasportsfan]

Kiwaukee Thomas broke Pozs arm not the ground. Watch the play, Thomas flashes across to finish the play and takes out Poz's arm.
I know that. But it's because he landed his arm on the ground which caused the break.

[Whaler53]

Ok you now admit that he was in fact trying to hit him,,,, now with that in mind,,, Wilfork knew he was going to hit him low, AND he used his elbow to do so, which means by definition it was a low-blow!

No, that's not what he was saying.

Yes, he was trying to hit him just like every single other defensive lineman in the league would have tried to do on that play.

It just happened that because of the Bills holding him around the legs and rolling on his legs, he did in fact hit low. He was trying to make a play, just like anyone else would have. If he were trying to injure JP, I don't think that he'd be available for the rest of the season....

[justasportsfan]

He was trying to hit him, which is his job. Because he was off-balance the hit was in the knee.

.
so he was trying to hit him with his elbow and it just happened to land on his knee? BS look at the picture , he extended that elbow to the knee.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o198/mybills/elbow.jpg






eitherways, Kelsay got fined for something stupid. Wilfork should get the same to say the least.

[Ickybaluky]

Ok you now admit that he was in fact trying to hit him,,,, now with that in mind,,, Wilfork knew he was going to hit him low, AND he used his elbow to do so, which means by definition it was a low-blow!

I have said all along that he was trying to hit him, and that he hit him low. However, when you are off-balance after being shoved, sometimes you hit the guy where you don't intend. He didn't have time to think about anything, it was a reaction.

Again, since you are having trouble reading what I've said, I'll state it:

He hit him low, which is a penalty. He hit him late, which is a penalty. It was a dumb play. However, it happens in the league every week multiple times. You are trying to read intent into what he did which is silly. This happens all the time, and guys don't mean to hurt the player. They get flagged and fined and move on.

Calling for a suspension or some unusual sort of punishment is silly. The guy made a bad play, not an intentional effort to hurt someone. This isn't Albert Haynesworth stomping on someone's head, it was a player who hit the QB late and low after being shoved and falling. That is going to happen in a game as agressive and physical as NFL football.

Again, where was the outrage from Losman's teammates after the play? Where was the retribution? It wasn't there because they realize there wasn't some malicious intent, it was just a bad play. They have all been there. They may not like it, but they understand it.

[Ickybaluky]

so he was trying to hit him with his elbow and it just happened to land on his knee?

Yes. He didn't have time to think about it, he was just reaching out to hit him.


eitherways, Kelsay got fined for something stupid. Wilfork should get the same to say the least.

I agree. He was flagged and should get fined. That is what happens when these plays occur.

[justasportsfan]

Again, where was the outrage from Losman's teammates after the play? Where was the retribution? It wasn't there because they realize there wasn't some malicious intent, it was just a bad play. They have all been there. They may not like it, but they understand it.
they could't see it. The ball was gone. They were looking at where the ball went.

He could've extended his arm and pushed or pull with his hand

[Ickybaluky]

they could't see it. The ball was gone. They were looking at where the ball went.

You don't think anybody saw why their QB was rolling around on the ground? The guy that shoved Wilfork watched it happen.

There is nothing to keep a player from looking at the Jumbotron, BTW.

[justasportsfan]

You don't think anybody saw why their QB was rolling around on the ground? The guy that shoved Wilfork watched it happen. ah no. He was wrapped arround Wilfork.


There is nothing to keep a player from looking at the Jumbotron, BTW.
you mean react way after the fact? No. Even I wouldn't do that.

[Mahdi]

I have said all along that he was trying to hit him, and that he hit him low. However, when you are off-balance after being shoved, sometimes you hit the guy where you don't intend. He didn't have time to think about anything, it was a reaction.

Again, since you are having trouble reading what I've said, I'll state it:

He hit him low, which is a penalty. He hit him late, which is a penalty. It was a dumb play. However, it happens in the league every week multiple times. You are trying to read intent into what he did which is silly. This happens all the time, and guys don't mean to hurt the player. They get flagged and fined and move on.

Calling for a suspension or some unusual sort of punishment is silly. The guy made a bad play, not an intentional effort to hurt someone. This isn't Albert Haynesworth stomping on someone's head, it was a player who hit the QB late and low after being shoved and falling. That is going to happen in a game as agressive and physical as NFL football.

Again, where was the outrage from Losman's teammates after the play? Where was the retribution? It wasn't there because they realize there wasn't some malicious intent, it was just a bad play. They have all been there. They may not like it, but they understand it.
Ok first of all you only recently admitted that he did intend to hit him. Before you were saying he was knocked off balance and was pushed into Losman and there was no intent.


Anyways, Lets put it this way, if Wilfork was falling and as he was falling into Losman was not paying attention, and it was his head or shoulder that hit Losman in the knee, no one would say anything.

However, he was paying attention, he did hit him low, and he used his elbow to do it which doesnt exactly point to his innocence. It was a low-blow to the knee with a part of the body that you dont use to protect yourself with. The elbow is used to inflict pain or injury not break a fall.

Lastly, no one saw Losman get hurt. They all turned around and saw him on the ground. What were they supposed to do? Find him in the parking lot after the game? They probably didnt even see the hit till after the game.

[justasportsfan]

there's no sense in discussing this. Even the commentators didn't like what happened even after it was replayed several times.

I'm not sourgraping because of the loss. we got spanked and expected it.Just tired that The league has always sided with the Pats.

[Whaler53]

there's no sense in discussing this. Even the commentators didn't like what happened even after it was replayed several times.

I'm not sourgraping because of the loss. we got spanked and expected it.Just tired that The league has always sided with the Pats.



Boo hoo, get over it all ready.

The play wasn't out of the ordinary, the only reason you guys are even talking about it is because of your jealousy of the pats.

Get over it, green doesn't look good on you

[justasportsfan]

Boo hoo, get over it all ready.

The play wasn't out of the ordinary, the only reason you guys are even talking about it is because of your jealousy of the pats.

Get over it, green doesn't look good on you
yeah we're jealous because your coach cheats.

[Ickybaluky]

Ok first of all you only recently admitted that he did intend to hit him. Before you were saying he was knocked off balance and was pushed into Losman and there was no intent.

He was doing his job, of course he tried to hit him. I've said it all along.


However, he was paying attention, he did hit him low, and he used his elbow to do it which doesnt exactly point to his innocence. It was a low-blow to the knee with a part of the body that you dont use to protect yourself with. The elbow is used to inflict pain or injury not break a fall.

Lastly, no one saw Losman get hurt. They all turned around and saw him on the ground. What were they supposed to do? Find him in the parking lot after the game? They probably didnt even see the hit till after the game.

The fact he hit him with his elbow is not really relevant. He was falling sideways and stuck his arm out in that direction to try and hit him. He didn't have a lot of time to react. You seem to think that while falling down he had time to get a clear picture of what was going on. He knew in general Losman was there, but it wasn't like he had time to think about it. To say he intentionally tried to take he knee out in that situation is sillly, because he just didn't have that kind of time for premeditated action. He didn't have time to look and say, "Oh, there is his knee, I should hit him there". He just reacted.

Now, in hindsight, was it a dumb play? Yeah, he cost his team 15 yards and injured a guy. However, to call him a cheap or dirty is dumb, because plays like that happen all the time in the NFL despite guys not meaning to. The game is fast and violent, and sometimes guys make stupid plays. They get flagged and fined for over-agressive plays all the time. This play is no different.

Players police this sort of thing, don't kid yourself. If they thought Wilfork intentionally tried to hurt Losman, they would have chopped his knees on one of the next few plays and sent him out of the game. They might have been mad about it, but they understood what it was. It isn't like Wilfork has a history of this sort of thing. He doesn't.

[don137]

I rather lose with integrity then cheat to win...

[DraftBoy]

Id rather lose with class then cry like a bunch of babies

[Mahdi]

He was falling sideways and stuck his arm out in that direction to try and hit him.

Well I guess I'll be watching Wilfork sack QBs with his elbows this year. Should be interesting.

[don137]

Id rather lose with class then cry like a bunch of babies
Your act is old and as tiresome as your posts. Many feel it was a dirty hit and have expressed it. People are debating it. Stop acting like a pompus immature like kid and belittling everyone that differs from you. You have a lot of growing up to do.

[BAM]

Watching it again in full speed it definitely looks like it could've been avoided. Even moreso in slow mo.

Who cares though. We suck no matter who's at QB.

[MikeInRoch]

Players police this sort of thing, don't kid yourself. If they thought Wilfork intentionally tried to hurt Losman, they would have chopped his knees on one of the next few plays and sent him out of the game.

Or maybe they didn't realize how cheap it was until they saw the film.


It isn't like Wilfork has a history of this sort of thing. He doesn't.

You are right, he's not Rodney Harrison.

[Ohio Steeler]

you tube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3POT8n2Qk3g&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Esteeleraddicts%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D9729) of the dirty hit...

Now here is what i have to say about Wilfork he was dirty at the U and well he is dirty in the NFL... I hope the NFL does the right thing and make him site out the rest of the year, no matter how you try to spin this around it was dirty... Yes he was pushed into Losman however instead of trying to avoid Losman he sticks his arm out to hit Losman right below the knee in a way to hurt him. So no matter how you spin try to put a spin on it Wilfork knew just what he was doing when he hit Losman the way he did woth his arm.

[Whaler53]

I'm walking away from this thread. We'll just agree to disagree.

I don't feel it was an intentionally dirty hit, you do. We'll leave it at that.