Don't blame coaching or QBs, blame the receivers.

[HHURRICANE]

With all of the frustration around here let's not forget that TD has most of the blame for the crappy state of affairs. His eagerness to hit homeruns left this team in complete disarray.

Our receiving corps is downright awful. I think Evans is a Pro-bowl receiver in this league. However, the dropoff after him is so bad that why would any team leave Evans alone. Everbody on this site predicted this would happen and now people are shocked that it is coming true?

Parrish is too small people. Watch how bad he is taken out of plays. Reed plays WR like a tight-end so he's not getting open unless he's completely left alone.

Which leaves our #2 guy to discuss. A teams #2 guy is almost as important as the number one guy. After watching Moulds this past weekend I would allow him to spit in my face if it meant him coming back to Buffalo as our #2.

Price is lazy. All the glory none of the guts. He's the same guy that got run out of Atlanta for the same exact kind of play. Nothing has changed, nothing.

Until we get some talent in the receiving corps don't expect much and ask yourself this question. Would Parrish, Reed, or Price make another roster as a receiver?

[TacklingDummy]

. Everbody on this site predicted this would happen and now people are shocked that it is coming true?



Not shocked. JP looked pretty bad without his 1 trick.

[HHURRICANE]

Not shocked. JP looked pretty bad without his 1 trick.

In fairness, I watched Brady struggle last year without having the receiving corps he was used to.

[TacklingDummy]

In fairness, I watched Brady struggle last year without having the receiving corps he was used to.

Did Brady even have 1 star WR last year? JP had Lee.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm going to post a very unpopular opinion on this subject.

You hit the nail on the head with blame the receivers and it starts with the guy who's allegedly "great." Personally I think Evans is an average receiver who put up big numbers because he was the only guy in this offense. This happens plenty of times in the league. Kevin Johnson for the 99-01 Browns put up similiar numbers to what Evans has done....once Cleveland got receivers who were average, they dumped KJ. Quincy Morgan, Dropcutt, Andre Davis. Ok average doesn't describe that trio. Wack does. Eddie Kennison is a very similiar player to Lee Evans, imo. A good complimentary guy but not someone who is suited to be the number 1.

But in all seriousness, this year is a testament to the fact that he's nothing more than a guy who can run deep. He's been completely eliminated so far this year and has put up numbers that someone with his rep around town should be ashamed of. Teams have learned he's the only viable option in our pass offense so they key on him. After Evans we got nothing, and I mean literally nothing. Price is a chump, Parrish is a gimmick guy, Reed blocks better than he does catching. Obviously, we all know Lee is JPs main target, he locks on to him most of the time...which leads to the obvious answer. Lee simply isn't getting open. Whether that's due to poor route running, running himself out of plays, the other teams corners are just that awesome or laziness, who knows. Good to great WRs can make plays on their own in this league, look at Steve Smith, T.O. in Frisco, Moss without Carter in Minnie, Joe Horn in his day back in N.O., Andre Johnson..etc.

To answer your question...Parrish would make another roster, as a returnman. Price? No chance. Reed? probably not, but there's a chance. Here's another question, on how many other teams would Lee Evans be the number 1? I'm trying to think of a team that would put him as the 1. I can only think of 4. Miami, Minnesota, ATL and KC.

[Wraith]

But in all seriousness, this year is a testament to the fact that he's nothing more than a guy who can run deep.

71 of Evans' 82 catches last season were thrown 20 yards or less. He has the ability, it's just not being used.

[HHURRICANE]

I think people have been a little too tough on Evans. I watched him play last year and he's not just a fast guy that catches the long ball.

Teams keyed on JP thinking that he couldn't burn them. The second half of last year he found Evans and teams paid for it.

This year, teams realize that JP has some ability to burn them so their coverages aren't all based on loading the line. Instead, their confident that by eliminating Evans, JP can't burn them with anybody else. So far so good.

[djjimkelly]

Did Brady even have 1 star WR last year? JP had Lee.


brady still had 2 pro bowl level TE's we have bag your groceries level TE's on this roster

[HHURRICANE]

Did Brady even have 1 star WR last year? JP had Lee.

I don't believe that we possess the same running attack or TE play that the Pats have.

[Mr. Pink]

I think people have been a little too tough on Evans. I watched him play last year and he's not just a fast guy that catches the long ball.

Teams keyed on JP thinking that he couldn't burn them. The second half of last year he found Evans and teams paid for it.

This year, teams realize that JP has some ability to burn them so their coverages aren't all based on loading the line. Instead, their confident that by eliminating Evans, JP can't burn them with anybody else. So far so good.

or the coverage on him has just tightened up because he's the only viable option in our offense and he doesn't have the skill to compensate for it.

Star WRs in this league after 3 games don't have 5 catches and 27 yards. Period. Hell even mediocre WRs can put up those numbers.

Surprisingly enough, JP isn't the worst starting QB in the NFL...Even Grossman has hit his main target more than 5 times..Berrian has 16 catches for 221 yards. Joey Harrington has hit Roddy White 15 times for 237 yards. Damon Huard has hit Dwayne Bowe 10 times for 135 yards. I could go further to illustrate my point, but I can't think of any other starting QBs as bad as Losman.

On the whole catch argument, Mike Furrey had 98 catches last year....he's the third WR in Det now. Catches don't make you a number 1 receiver.

[HHURRICANE]

or the coverage on him has just tightened up because he's the only viable option in our offense and he doesn't have the skill to compensate for it.

Star WRs in this league after 3 games don't have 5 catches and 27 yards. Period. Hell even mediocre WRs can put up those numbers.

Surprisingly enough, JP isn't the worst starting QB in the NFL...Even Grossman has hit his main target more than 5 times..Berrian has 16 catches for 221 yards. Joey Harrington has hit Roddy White 15 times for 237 yards. Damon Huard has hit Dwayne Bowe 10 times for 135 yards. I could go further to illustrate my point, but I can't think of any other starting QBs as bad as Losman.

On the whole catch argument, Mike Furrey had 98 catches last year....he's the third WR in Det now. Catches don't make you a number 1 receiver.

I'm not sure what your point is here?

[justasportsfan]

With all of the frustration around here let's not forget that TD has most of the blame for the crappy state of affairs. His eagerness to hit homeruns left this team in complete disarray.

Our receiving corps is downright awful. I think Evans is a Pro-bowl receiver in this league. However, the dropoff after him is so bad that why would any team leave Evans alone. Everbody on this site predicted this would happen and now people are shocked that it is coming true?

Parrish is too small people. Watch how bad he is taken out of plays. Reed plays WR like a tight-end so he's not getting open unless he's completely left alone.

Which leaves our #2 guy to discuss. A teams #2 guy is almost as important as the number one guy. After watching Moulds this past weekend I would allow him to spit in my face if it meant him coming back to Buffalo as our #2.

Price is lazy. All the glory none of the guts. He's the same guy that got run out of Atlanta for the same exact kind of play. Nothing has changed, nothing.

Until we get some talent in the receiving corps don't expect much and ask yourself this question. Would Parrish, Reed, or Price make another roster as a receiver?

This is absurd .It's everybody. From the coaches down to the janitor. Sheez.

[Philagape]

With all of the frustration around here let's not forget that TD has most of the blame for the crappy state of affairs. His eagerness to hit homeruns left this team in complete disarray.


It was Marv who brought in Price and re-signed Reed. Around the same time, and for the same deal. It was like saying, "We'll go cheap here and start whoever sucks less."

[PECKERWOOD]

Parrish would make another team as a WR/PR/KR. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Parrish's true value to this team is as a PR, not a WR. In other words, I can't disagree with your post at all. We have absolutely ZERO big targets to throw to. Do we even have a WR that is over 6ft?

[HHURRICANE]

It was Marv who brought in Price and re-signed Reed. Around the same time, and for the same deal. It was like saying, "We'll go cheap here and start whoever sucks less."

TD drafted Reed and Parrish. Randy Moss wasn't coming to Buffalo so you have to tell me what marquee WR we didn't sign in FA?

In addition we had/have holes everywhere. The O-line had been ignored since Jonas Jennings left.

You can only address so many issues at once. I do believe that the Bills should have addressed the #2 receiver in some way this year but what draft choice were we giving up to get one? What FA did we not sign?

[justasportsfan]

It was Marv who brought in Price and re-signed Reed. Around the same time, and for the same deal. It was like saying, "We'll go cheap here and start whoever sucks less."
Puhlease. :coocoo:

[Philagape]

TD drafted Reed and Parrish. Randy Moss wasn't coming to Buffalo so you have to tell me what marquee WR we didn't sign in FA?

In addition we had/have holes everywhere. The O-line had been ignored since Jonas Jennings left.

You can only address so many issues at once. I do believe that the Bills should have addressed the #2 receiver in some way this year but what draft choice were we giving up to get one? What FA did we not sign?

The 2006 class was pretty weak; Jurevicius might have been nice. But this year, Drew Bennett, Stallworth, Kevin Curtis, DJ Hackett, and (as you mentioned) Moulds were available.

And whoever else was available, giving Price and Reed four-year deals is inexcusable.

[Philagape]

Puhlease. :coocoo:

How am I wrong? As it is, the starter IS the guy who sucks less.

[justasportsfan]

How am I wrong? As it is, the starter IS the guy who sucks less.

You are wrong with what you thought MArv was thinking. You have sources too?

[BigDaddyMac]

I blame Dick Jauron because he's a ugly looking bastard and can't coach worth ****.:blowup:

[Philagape]

You are wrong with what you thought MArv was thinking. You have sources too?

I didn't say that was what he was thinking. I said "It was like....," meaning, in effect. Do you think Marv was thinking that Price and Reed were long-term solutions? Because that would make him just stupid. I assume what he was thinking was what has, in fact, happened. Cheap nobodies.

[bigbub2352]

You cant get open when u r being double and triple covered, any team knows that our only threats are Evans and Lynch u key on them u stop the Bills
HH i couldnt agree more this is something i have been saying for 3 years now read my thread about how i feel Parrish is a weapon if used properly, he is not a 2 but can be effective as a 3 or a very solid 4, he catches everything and can score on any play, but Fairchild under utilizes him, were r the quick hits and and the dump offs to him, or a screen, Price is a bum, and so is reed, i am sick of people sticking up for him, PEOPLE he sucks, 5 years now, we need size, we got speed, SIZE SIZE SIZE, red zone threats,

[justasportsfan]

Do you think Marv was thinking that Price and Reed were long-term solutions?.

Is that what your source told you? Everyone is brought in with the hope that they will indeed become long term solutions. Some pan out some don't but not because Marv thought they were cheap. :rolleyes:

[Philagape]

Is that what your source told you? Everyone is brought in with the hope that they will indeed become long term solutions. Some pan out some don't but not because Marv thought they were cheap. :rolleyes:

I was asking you. How else to explain giving them four-year contracts? For players who had proved nothing except they weren't worthy of starting? Anyone who even thought it was possible for those two to be long-term solutions has Down's syndrome. Either Marv was stupid or cheap (in which case Ralph gets the blame), take your pick, but those are the only two options. I don't think he's THAT stupid.

[justasportsfan]

I was asking you. How else to explain giving them four-year contracts? For players who had proved nothing except they weren't worthy of starting? Anyone who even thought it was possible for those two to be long-term solutions has Down's syndrome. Either Marv was stupid or cheap (in which case Ralph gets the blame), take your pick, but those are the only two options. I don't think he's THAT stupid.

Teams sign players to multiple year contracts all the time but cut them when they don't pan out . Not because they are cheap.

If Welker didn't pan out, would you be saying the Pats were cheap? We are suffering because of the coaches. The PAts could put Price and reed in a better position to make plays than our coaches can.

[Philagape]

Teams sign players to multiple year contracts all the time but cut them when they don't pan out . Not because they are cheap.

If Welker didn't pan out, would you be saying the Pats were cheap? We are suffering because of the coaches. The PAts could put Price and reed in a better position to make plays than our coaches can.

Price and Reed wouldn't make the Pats, period. Price has failed on multiple teams, and many observers are now seeing why. I can still hear the snickering when the Bills signed him. Reed has had plenty of opportunities to move up the depth chart and hasn't.

And the Pats gave up a second-round (and a 7th) pick for Welker and extended him for almost $4 mil a year. That's not being cheap. And Welker's panning out pretty well so far. He's a bargain. Comparing him to Price and Reed is absurd. They're not even near his class.

[justasportsfan]

Price and Reed wouldn't make the Pats, period. Price has failed on multiple teams, and many observers are now seeing why. I can still hear the snickering when the Bills signed him. Reed has had plenty of opportunities to move up the depth chart and hasn't.

And the Pats gave up a second-round (and a 7th) pick for Welker. That's not being cheap. And Welker's panning out pretty well so far. He's a bargain. Comparing him to Price and Reed is absurd. They're not even near his class.
which leads me to saying that it's our coaches. Not because Marv thought they were cheap.

Maybe we should cut Evans since he's worse than both Price and reed this season. As a matter of fact, his stats are 4th in this team.

[Philagape]

which leads me to saying that it's our coaches.

It's Price and Reed. They're nobodies. Price is a has-been one-year wonder, and Reed is a never-was. All receivers have to do is run routes, and they're not doing it very well.


Not because Marv thought they were cheap.

They WERE cheap. What kind of a pay scale is 2.5 million? That's like a compromise: too much for a backup but cheap for a starter. If you put their salaries together for a proven player, then you'd be serious about upgrading -- like what the Patriots did for Welker -- instead of just filling spots with comatose bodies.


Maybe we should cut Evans since he's worse than both Price and reed this season. As a matter of fact, his stats are 4th in this team.

Are you really trying to bring stats into this? Are you serious? Or is it you just can't stop talking? You really need to learn when to quit, because when you keep going and going and going, your posts always venture into the just plain silly.

[raphael120]

My grilled cheese sandwhich is made with yellow american cheese! I don't like yellow american! ALL DONAHOES FAULT!!!!!!

Give me a break, the "Donahoe did it!" excuse is getting reeeal old reeeal fast.

[The Spaz]

Teams would be all over Evans if we were to put him on the block. Then teams with a half-way decent QB would be LOL to wins.

[HHURRICANE]

Teams would be all over Evans if we were to put him on the block. Then teams with a half-way decent QB would be LOL to wins.

Randy Moss was pretty unspectacular in Oakland. Without some players around you it makes it tough.

[churchinski]

I'm going to post a very unpopular opinion on this subject.

You hit the nail on the head with blame the receivers and it starts with the guy who's allegedly "great." Personally I think Evans is an average receiver who put up big numbers because he was the only guy in this offense. This happens plenty of times in the league. Kevin Johnson for the 99-01 Browns put up similiar numbers to what Evans has done....once Cleveland got receivers who were average, they dumped KJ. Quincy Morgan, Dropcutt, Andre Davis. Ok average doesn't describe that trio. Wack does. Eddie Kennison is a very similiar player to Lee Evans, imo. A good complimentary guy but not someone who is suited to be the number 1.

But in all seriousness, this year is a testament to the fact that he's nothing more than a guy who can run deep. He's been completely eliminated so far this year and has put up numbers that someone with his rep around town should be ashamed of. Teams have learned he's the only viable option in our pass offense so they key on him. After Evans we got nothing, and I mean literally nothing. Price is a chump, Parrish is a gimmick guy, Reed blocks better than he does catching. Obviously, we all know Lee is JPs main target, he locks on to him most of the time...which leads to the obvious answer. Lee simply isn't getting open. Whether that's due to poor route running, running himself out of plays, the other teams corners are just that awesome or laziness, who knows. Good to great WRs can make plays on their own in this league, look at Steve Smith, T.O. in Frisco, Moss without Carter in Minnie, Joe Horn in his day back in N.O., Andre Johnson..etc.

To answer your question...Parrish would make another roster, as a returnman. Price? No chance. Reed? probably not, but there's a chance. Here's another question, on how many other teams would Lee Evans be the number 1? I'm trying to think of a team that would put him as the 1. I can only think of 4. Miami, Minnesota, ATL and KC.Gimmick is exatly the word that always comes to my mind with Parrish.

I think he could be a threat with a team that had other threats.

Reed is nothing at all beyond ordinary and so far Evans has not proven that he can get open on medium range patterns when he is the receiver opponents are keying on.

The TEs are useless, they opted for blocking TEs but the results aren't there.

When you fill the roster with blocking TEs you expect it to show up in the blocking and the pass protection.

I don't see these TEs making a significant improvement in pass protection or run blocking to justify the trade off.

[historypete]

I think Parrish is a good reciever, he just isn't given enough opportunities. But Price is garbage, and Reed is a good 3rd and 5 guy that is it. This team has been crying for a #2 reciever, but the staff and FO think these guys are just fine. Hopefully they'll realize their ineptness in the draft and get a bigger WR, someone preferably over 5'10"

[Elminster]

Parrish and Reed are good slot guys. They aren't the problem(they don't seem to see the field as often as they ought to, IMO). The real problem is Peerless and the lack of a receiving TE. We could get away with PeePee if we had a good receiving TE, but, obviously, we don't. Which means you lock down Evans and our passing game is just gone. It doesn't help that we're extremely predictable about when we're going to pass as well. I would say our plan experienced a few hiccups(Spikes not coming back from the injury in anything nearing his previous form and McGahee not panning out) and that forced us to deal with other problems. I should hope that getting some one to take pressure off of Evans will be a priority. Nay....a MUST. Evans had better show something though....

[justasportsfan]

It's Price and Reed. They're nobodies. Price is a has-been one-year wonder, and Reed is a never-was. All receivers have to do is run routes, and they're not doing it very well. .

Sorry just got back from lunch.

As already stated reed is a Slot guy. Whether you think he sucks or not is a mattter of opinion. If you are basing it on this year. Evans Blows even more. Do you thin that?


They WERE cheap. What kind of a pay scale is 2.5 million? That's like a compromise: too much for a backup but cheap for a starter. If you put their salaries together for a proven player, then you'd be serious about upgrading -- like what the Patriots did for Welker -- instead of just filling spots with comatose bodies.

Interesting, others will aregue they were overpaid. Which is it?


Are you really trying to bring stats into this? Are you serious? Or is it you just can't stop talking? You really need to learn when to quit, because when you keep going and going and going, your posts always venture into the just plain silly. What's wosre than being silly is implying Marv was being cheap when bringing in Reed and Price without any sources other than speculation. But hey, you can continue rambling on about it if you want. Maybe your source is wealthy too.

[churchinski]

With all of the frustration around here let's not forget that TD has most of the blame for the crappy state of affairs. His eagerness to hit homeruns left this team in complete disarray.

Our receiving corps is downright awful. I think Evans is a Pro-bowl receiver in this league. However, the dropoff after him is so bad that why would any team leave Evans alone. Everbody on this site predicted this would happen and now people are shocked that it is coming true?

Parrish is too small people. Watch how bad he is taken out of plays. Reed plays WR like a tight-end so he's not getting open unless he's completely left alone.

Which leaves our #2 guy to discuss. A teams #2 guy is almost as important as the number one guy. After watching Moulds this past weekend I would allow him to spit in my face if it meant him coming back to Buffalo as our #2.

Price is lazy. All the glory none of the guts. He's the same guy that got run out of Atlanta for the same exact kind of play. Nothing has changed, nothing.

Until we get some talent in the receiving corps don't expect much and ask yourself this question. Would Parrish, Reed, or Price make another roster as a receiver?there were plenty of good WR on the FA market for Levy to sign

instead he brought in Price

that has nothing to do with donahue

[churchinski]

With all of the frustration around here let's not forget that TD has most of the blame for the crappy state of affairs. His eagerness to hit homeruns left this team in complete disarray.

Our receiving corps is downright awful. I think Evans is a Pro-bowl receiver in this league. However, the dropoff after him is so bad that why would any team leave Evans alone. Everbody on this site predicted this would happen and now people are shocked that it is coming true?

Parrish is too small people. Watch how bad he is taken out of plays. Reed plays WR like a tight-end so he's not getting open unless he's completely left alone.

Which leaves our #2 guy to discuss. A teams #2 guy is almost as important as the number one guy. After watching Moulds this past weekend I would allow him to spit in my face if it meant him coming back to Buffalo as our #2.

Price is lazy. All the glory none of the guts. He's the same guy that got run out of Atlanta for the same exact kind of play. Nothing has changed, nothing.

Until we get some talent in the receiving corps don't expect much and ask yourself this question. Would Parrish, Reed, or Price make another roster as a receiver?there were plenty of good WRs on the FA market for Levy to sign

instead he brought in Price

that has nothing to do with donahue

[tat2dmike77]

Parrish is a good PR/KR and maybe a third receiver and nothing more.

Reed was never all that good at LSU. He made some good plays here and there but i was surprised to see him get drafted and i was definatlly surprised to the bills resign him.

Price I never cared for him. He was good with moulds and bleslow for that one year. After that he was crap in atlanta and in dallas. He is just taking up a roster spot

The bills need to look at so much in the draft/FA this offseason it's ridonkulos. I'm a homer but this season is so depressing the last time i remember the bills bein this bad was 84,85,and 86. I'll still come to the game in dec against the giants and get completely wasted and freeze my ass off.

[Philagape]

If you are basing it on this year.

I'm basing it on his career. He's mediocre as a third WR but we still need a real No. 2. As a starter he sucks (see why that's relevant below).


Interesting, others will aregue they were overpaid. Which is it?

They were overpaid for backups, which is what they've played like. The fact that Reed and Price got the same deal suggests they were intended to compete for the starting job. When garbage competes with garbage, then garbage will start.
The cheapness is in relation to making a serious effort to address the position.


What's wosre than being silly is implying Marv was being cheap when bringing in Reed and Price without any sources other than speculation. But hey, you can continue rambling on about it if you want. Maybe your source is wealthy too.

Speculation on a message board!!! What a freak I am!! I'm the only one here who's used facts: their contracts, their careers and the nothing else done to address the position. I've got evidence. You've got nothing to back up your speculation.

[justasportsfan]

I'm basing it on his career. He's mediocre as a third WR but we still need a real No. 2. As a starter he sucks (see why that's relevant below).



They were overpaid for backups, which is what they've played like. The fact that Reed and Price got the same deal suggests they were intended to compete for the starting job. When garbage competes with garbage, then garbage will start.
The cheapness is in relation to making a serious effort to address the position.



Speculation on a message board!!! What a freak I am!! I'm the only one here who's used facts: their contracts, their careers and the nothing else done to address the position. I've got evidence. You've got nothing to back up your speculation.
So there might not any chance that he brought them because his coaches thought that they would be a fit for this O? Any chance of that or do you know any better ? You're still sticking to your source that Marv was being cheap huh? Give me a break.

It's one thing to speculate on a mb but it's another thing to dimmiss other speculations that does not agree with yours. Until then, your speculation of MArv being cheap has no basis whatsoever.

[Philagape]

So there might not any chance that he brought them because his coaches thought that they would be a fit for this O? Any chance of that or do you know any better ? You're still sticking to your source that Marv was being cheap huh? Give me a break.

Like I said, there are only two possibilities:
1. They thought a platoon of Reed and Price was the answer opposite Evans. That's just a plain old dumbass bonehead blunder.
2. They decided not to address the position seriously and put it up for grabs between two cheapies.

I lean toward cheapness because I don't believe Marv is stupid enough for option 1. Do you?

[justasportsfan]

Like I said, there are only two possibilities:
1. They thought a platoon of Reed and Price was the answer opposite Evans. That's just a plain old dumbass bonehead blunder.
2. They decided not to address the position seriously and put it up for grabs between two cheapies.

I lean toward cheapness because I don't believe Marv is stupid enough for option 1. Do you?


IMO at that time Marv was smart enough to listen to his coaches. That's what Polian did. It's been said several times he sought input from his coaches.

[Philagape]

IMO at that time Marv was smart enough to listen to his coaches. That's what Polian did. It's been said several times he sought input from his coaches.

Then they would all be stupid.

[PECKERWOOD]

You cant get open when u r being double and triple covered, any team knows that our only threats are Evans and Lynch u key on them u stop the Bills
HH i couldnt agree more this is something i have been saying for 3 years now read my thread about how i feel Parrish is a weapon if used properly, he is not a 2 but can be effective as a 3 or a very solid 4, he catches everything and can score on any play, but Fairchild under utilizes him, were r the quick hits and and the dump offs to him, or a screen, Price is a bum, and so is reed, i am sick of people sticking up for him, PEOPLE he sucks, 5 years now, we need size, we got speed, SIZE SIZE SIZE, red zone threats,


That pretty much sums up our WR core.. Evans and Parrish are the only targets that are worth a damn.