Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

[patmoran2006]

The real short version...

As a head coach, he's undisputably going down as the best in franchise history. He retires and soon after goes into the Hall of Fame (deservedly, not many coaches could've managed such a bunch of talented egos like that)

However, he's also heading down the path as one of; if not the worst GM in the history of this club.

Through 2 seasons, his free agent pluckings have been a complete and utter joke. He's overpaid for one dimensional rotating players like Kelsay and Schobel that strap the team from improving against the run with $35 million guarenteed to the two. He's drafted decent but given the QB mess in Buffalo you have to scratch your head how he could pass over Jay Cutler and then Nick Mangold in favor of Donte Whitner and John McCargo.

Debate that forever, but at the end of the day this is a 0-3 football team, a team that has somehow gotten at best as bad as the 2001 Bills and threatens to rival the teams of the mid 80's as the worst in franchise history.

By clearly being in over his head at his age and this capacity of a job, if he doesn't gracefully retire at year's end and the losing tradition continues in Buffalo; does this taint his legacy?

[Mr. Pink]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

Even shorter...

As a coach...no.

[PECKERWOOD]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

Lou Saban was a great coach for us as well. Marv will always be remembered for what he did for the Bills in the 90's.

[gr8slayer]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

Funny you mention that, I was having this conversation with a friend the other night. I think he needs to jump ship while he can, his shortcomings as a GM are quickly making me forget his great years as a coach.

[churchinski]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

The real short version...

As a head coach, he's undisputably going down as the best in franchise history. He retires and soon after goes into the Hall of Fame (deservedly, not many coaches could've managed such a bunch of talented egos like that)

However, he's also heading down the path as one of; if not the worst GM in the history of this club.

Through 2 seasons, his free agent pluckings have been a complete and utter joke. He's overpaid for one dimensional rotating players like Kelsay and Schobel that strap the team from improving against the run with $35 million guarenteed to the two. He's drafted decent but given the QB mess in Buffalo you have to scratch your head how he could pass over Jay Cutler and then Nick Mangold in favor of Donte Whitner and John McCargo.

Debate that forever, but at the end of the day this is a 0-3 football team, a team that has somehow gotten at best as bad as the 2001 Bills and threatens to rival the teams of the mid 80's as the worst in franchise history.

By clearly being in over his head at his age and this capacity of a job, if he doesn't gracefully retire at year's end and the losing tradition continues in Buffalo; does this taint his legacy?

It not just that 1st draft it's the free agents he signs.

None of the free agents he has brought in from other teams have made an impact.

[SABURZFAN]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

not at all.if anything,it shows that he will do anything to right the ship in Buffalo.because of his age and inexperience,he will make mistakes.let's not forget that he took over a bad team.you can't turn that around overnight.

[Elminster]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

When all is said and done, people remember the good times....

[Bill Brasky]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

not at all.if anything,it shows that he will do anything to right the ship in Buffalo.because of his age and inexperience,he will make mistakes.let's not forget that he took over a bad team.you can't turn that around overnight.

amen!

his legacy won't be tainted at all, IMO. you can't improve a team on chump change.

this team has been against bringing in free agents before he was even in control. the decisions he's made through the draft (which is how they said they would rebuild) have been decent.

you guys are turning a blind eye to his draft moves (Poz, Whitner, Lynch) and focusing on the free agent signings he's made when we all know that this organization won't pony up for good free agents. it's not his fault he has to shop at the bargain bin.

[patmoran2006]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

amen!

his legacy won't be tainted at all, IMO. you can't improve a team on chump change.

this team has been against bringing in free agents before he was even in control. the decisions he's made through the draft (which is how they said they would rebuild) have been decent.

you guys are turning a blind eye to his draft moves (Poz, Whitner, Lynch) and focusing on the free agent signings he's made when we all know that this organization won't pony up for good free agents. it's not his fault he has to shop at the bargain bin.

Agreed and there are few people out there bigger Marv fans than me (as a coach)

But don't you think he's LARGELY responsible for the collective trash that this team currently has, chump-change or not?

HOw would this team be different if we had signed a better guard than Tutan Reyes? Or we signed a different tight end other than Robert Royal? Maybe if we found a better #2 WR than Peerless Price, Lee Evans would be more effective. We don't need two safeties in the draft if he did better than Matt Bowen.. Would we be singing the same tune about this team and the QB mess had Levy recognized Losman's shortcomings a year ago and plucked Cutler in the draft instead of Whitner, a nice player but hardly a franchise guy. What if he went the Jim Kelly route (who always said the most important player to his offensive days was Kent Hull) and grabbed Nick Mangold.

This team is a mess, and Levy is laregly responsible for it today.

Like I said, know its a touchy deal.. Levy is well respected. But as a GM he is inadvertently butchering this franchise even further than when it was TD's team.

[Bill Brasky]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

I'll give you this... his FA have sucked. But like I said, I think he's handcuffed to the whole cash to the cap garbage. This really limits his ability to fix this team.

The team had so many needs when he got here. It's obvious his strategy, at least through free agency, has been to try and make quick fixes all at once.

Maybe had he focused on bringing in 1 or 2 quality free agents and worried about the rest later he could have built better.

I really think he walked into an impossible situation and is doing the best he can given what he's allowed to work with.

I'm not placing the blame of this terrible joke of a team on just 1 guy, especially the one and only guy within the organization that has a proven track record (as a coach, at least)

[patmoran2006]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

[quote=jfreeman]I'll give you this... his FA have sucked. But like I said, I think he's handcuffed to the whole cash to the cap garbage. This really limits his ability to fix this team.
I dont disagree with you. He is behind the 8 ball with that for sure. Still, the money he has spent has been spent very poorly. I'm not sure if a SINGLE free agent we've signed in two years has amounted to anything positive.

The team had so many needs when he got here. It's obvious his strategy, at least through free agency, has been to try and make quick fixes all at once.
They had many needs when he got here, and we have as many if not more in his second year. He's failed miserably with quick fixes.

Maybe had he focused on bringing in 1 or 2 quality free agents and worried about the rest later he could have built better.
Agreed, but I also think you're right about the cash to cap so I do give him maybe there was 1-2 guys he really coveted that he couldn't the OK to sign.

I really think he walked into an impossible situation and is doing the best he can given what he's allowed to work with.
He walked into a bad situation and is making it worse in my opinion. WE werent talented enough to contend when he got here. No denying that. But now we are committing more and more money guarenteed to players that are NOT going to help this team turn the corner. $14 mill guarenteed to Kelsay; $21 locked up to Schobel; both of when do only one thing well, and seem to be off the field an awful lot....$10 million contracts to PRice, Reed and Royal. $25 million to an average right tackle. The future doesnt look bright when so many of the problems, not the solutions are getting locked up. If we extend Losman and he fails, forget about it; we're set back 5 years.

I'd also like to say that I think Jauron and his staff are HORRIBLE, and that is 100% directly on Marv's hands.

I'm not placing the blame of this terrible joke of a team on just 1 guy, especially the one and only guy within the organization that has a proven track record (as a coach, at least)
you make a good point. If I came across as singling out Levy I apologize. It starts with Wilson. I'd bet my life Levy doesnt leave $18 million in cap space on the table with THIS team if it wasn't for Wilson.... I do hold Marv second-most accountable though for the hiring of the head coach and free agent flops. Well I shouldn't say flops because most were never good to begin with.. Irrelevent FA's is a better term.. This past draft looks awesome but in retrospect, 2006 not so much when you consider our needs and what was otu there for us to get, and what we came away with (not that Whitner and McCargo suck, I just dont think they are IMPACT players)[/quote]

[YardRat]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

Marv's legacy is cemented. The only perceived short-coming he has is in the FA market, and the blame for that will be placed on Ralph.

Levy won't be tainted, but Ralph will.

[patmoran2006]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

Wilson is not in question.
He cant even get through a press conference anymore without ****ing up.

But I dont buy blaming FA strictly on Wilson. Even with spending less than other teams, we've spent enough that our FA's should be better than what we have.. I mean honestly, Melvin Freekin Fowler is probably the best FA under the marv regime, and at BEST he's a dime a dozen center.

[gr8slayer]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

Wilson is not in question.
He cant even get through a press conference anymore without ****ing up.

But I dont buy blaming FA strictly on Wilson. Even with spending less than other teams, we've spent enough that our FA's should be better than what we have.. I mean honestly, Melvin Freekin Fowler is probably the best FA under the marv regime, and at BEST he's a dime a dozen center.

I've been pretty impressed with Dockery thus far.

[SABURZFAN]

Re: Is Marv in danger of having his legacy here tainted?

What if he went the Jim Kelly route (who always said the most important player to his offensive days was Kent Hull) and grabbed Nick Mangold.

This team is a mess, and Levy is laregly responsible for it today.

Like I said, know its a touchy deal.. Levy is well respected. But as a GM he is inadvertently butchering this franchise even further than when it was TD's team.

that was the only time i was upset with Marv.i wanted us to draft Mangold so bad.


c'mon pat,you know damn well that he inherited a team worse than the Reptilian Orgasms.