Sabres send two back to Rochester

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

The Buffalo Sabres announced today the team has assigned forward Clarke MacArthur and defenseman Andrej Sekera to the Rochester Americans of the American Hockey League.

"Just to play," responded head coach Lindy Ruff when asked why the pair were reassigned. "With Rochester's proximity and schedule, it's better that both players are playing."

MacArthur, Buffalo's third-round choice (74th overall) in the 2003 Entry Draft, was tied for fourth on the Sabres in exhibition scoring with three points in four games.

Sekera, Buffalo's third-round choice (71st overall) in the 2004 Entry Draft, registered a single assist in five preseason appearances.

http://sabres.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=339021

[churchinski]

The Buffalo Sabres announced today the team has assigned forward Clarke MacArthur and defenseman Andrej Sekera to the Rochester Americans of the American Hockey League.

"Just to play," responded head coach Lindy Ruff when asked why the pair were reassigned. "With Rochester's proximity and schedule, it's better that both players are playing."

MacArthur, Buffalo's third-round choice (74th overall) in the 2003 Entry Draft, was tied for fourth on the Sabres in exhibition scoring with three points in four games.

Sekera, Buffalo's third-round choice (71st overall) in the 2004 Entry Draft, registered a single assist in five preseason appearances.

http://sabres.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=339021

That's typical.

Is Ruff efn blind ?

This is the same guy that was accelerating Paille in front of Stafford , last year.
Stafford only saw ice after injuries.
Ruff had Paille rated in front of Drew Stafford !

If he can't see what they have in MacArthur then I don't know what he's smoking.

I'll say this ...after MacArthur gets his shot and sticks then look back and try to figure out how they could have arrived at having Ryan and Paille on the regular roster in front of MacArthur.

Every bit as ridiculous as going through a training camp last year and figuring Paile as being more NHL capable then Stafford.

The fact that Ryan has to clear waivers doesn't mean squat, he's not an in demand player at this point and probably never will be.

[churchinski]

Imagine how different things would have gone last year with Stafford on the roster from the start of the season.

They might have never made the Zubrus trade and saved a first round pick.

And instead of having Stafford in the pressbox while they were trying to make Zubrus out as being something he never was as a player we would have had Stafford on the ice through out the playoffs

[BlackMetalNinja]

Could you stick to just ruining one forum with your negativity? K... thanks!

[SpillerThrills]

The fact that Ryan has to clear waivers doesn't mean squat, he's not an in demand player at this point and probably never will be.



is that just like last year when Chris Thorburn (sp) had to clear waivers and didn't??? he wasn't an "in demand player" either yet he didn't clear waivers and was picked up by Boston!

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

is that just like last year when Chris Thorburn (sp) had to clear waivers and didn't??? he wasn't an "in demand player" either yet he didn't clear waivers and was picked up by Boston!

:shakeno: Thorburn went to Pittsburgh, I remember that day we just finished our pre-season game with them in Buffalo and the Sabres tried to ship Thorburn down to Rochester and the only way to do it was the waiver wire and the next day Pittsburgh claimed him off the waiver wire.

[Dr. Lecter]

That's typical.

Is Ruff efn blind ?

This is the same guy that was accelerating Paille in front of Stafford , last year.
Stafford only saw ice after injuries.
Ruff had Paille rated in front of Drew Stafford !

If he can't see what they have in MacArthur then I don't know what he's smoking.

I'll say this ...after MacArthur gets his shot and sticks then look back and try to figure out how they could have arrived at having Ryan and Paille on the regular roster in front of MacArthur.

Every bit as ridiculous as going through a training camp last year and figuring Paile as being more NHL capable then Stafford.

The fact that Ryan has to clear waivers doesn't mean squat, he's not an in demand player at this point and probably never will be.


A couple of points you have wrong here:

One: Ruff had more of a need for Paille at the time. He was more experienced, had more size and could kill penalties. Ruff said as much at the time.

Two: Ryan and Paille have to clear waivers. MacArthur does not. If they are sent down a team like Pheonix will grab them. And then the depth is damaged for the rest of the season. Pretty stupid to do that now.

Three: Ruff's track record on selecting players is pretty spot on. MacArthur will get more PT in Rochester and more time to develop than he would in Buffalo. Good choice. It lets him play and get ice time, probably in many different situations.

[Dr. Lecter]

Imagine how different things would have gone last year with Stafford on the roster from the start of the season.

They might have never made the Zubrus trade and saved a first round pick.

And instead of having Stafford in the pressbox while they were trying to make Zubrus out as being something he never was as a player we would have had Stafford on the ice through out the playoffs

Did you watch Stafford in the playoffs?

He was awful.

What Zubrus brought, was a physical style the team was lacking. He was one of the better players in the playoffs.

[churchinski]

Could you stick to just ruining one forum with your negativity? K... thanks!
Stop crying about people having an opinion.

Did you grow up running to you mother anytime someone had an opinion that you didn't agree with ?

In the adult world no one will intervene for you , you either have to cover your eyes or your ears.
(unless your mom runs the forum)

[churchinski]

Did you watch Stafford in the playoffs?

He was awful.

What Zubrus brought, was a physical style the team was lacking. He was one of the better players in the playoffs.
He sucked

Zubrus brought nothing except a few body checks early in the playoff showcasing himself for a contract.

He logged huge amounts of pp time and registered nothing.

The Drury line was far more effective once he got hurt.

Zubrus is a career underachiever

The herd got sucked in by rhetoric from media figures like the 15 year olds on wrg who don't know squat about hockey.

People that know hockey don't parrot the opinion of the clowns on wgr.

Buffalo never offered Zubrus a contract and neither did the Capitals.

[Dr. Lecter]

He sucked

Zubrus brought nothing except a few body checks early in the playoff showcasing himself for a contract.

He logged huge amounts of pp time and registered nothing.

The Drury line was far more effective once he got hurt.

Zubrus is a career underachiever

The herd got sucked in by rhetoric from media figures like the 15 year olds on wrg who don't know squat about hockey.

People that know hockey don't parrot the opinion of the clowns on wgr.

Buffalo never offered Zubrus a contract and neither did the Capitals.

Ohhh... A feisty one!!!

Very well then.

First off, you can drop the WGR rhetoric (Since I never listen to the crap) and the implications I don't know hockey. (Apparently differing opinions get you all kinds of testy too).

Zubrus has been an underacheiver, for the talent he was perceived as having coming out of Junior. That does not mean he was not, or can't be effective. He is not a scorer. That much is known. He is a big player who offers a phsyical presence and kills penalties. He also, while not scoring, did have a number of assists in the playoffs.

As for the Sabres not offerring him a deal, I think the current situation makes it clear why they did not, not to mention the comments made shortly after they acquired him. He was no more than a rent-a-player acquired using Marty's salary cap space. No more. No less.

[churchinski]

A couple of points you have wrong here:

One: Ruff had more of a need for Paille at the time. He was more experienced, had more size and could kill penalties. Ruff said as much at the time.

Two: Ryan and Paille have to clear waivers. MacArthur does not. If they are sent down a team like Pheonix will grab them. And then the depth is damaged for the rest of the season. Pretty stupid to do that now.

Three: Ruff's track record on selecting players is pretty spot on. MacArthur will get more PT in Rochester and more time to develop than he would in Buffalo. Good choice. It lets him play and get ice time, probably in many different situations.

lol lol lol

1. just exactly what do you consider an experienced player
how much experience do you think Paille had prior to the season ?

2. waivers ?
they kept Ryan because of waivers ?
you better guess again
Are you aware that in 2005 the Ruff exposed Pominville to waiver after he scored 4 points in 5 preseason games.

And now he is making his roster to include Ryan who because they don't want to expose a player that has done nothing in the NHL and who is on his last leg as far as getting a shot ?

3. no it is not
the sabres track record for scouting is outstanding
check #2 for Ruff's track record on selecting players
If you need another example Ruff himself was involved in the Sabres deciding to go with Kotalik rather than Dumont when they faced cap issues last summer

Pominville went on to score 18 goals in a span of 19 games in Rochester
How does Dumont look in Nashville ?
Is he playing as good as Kotalik or better ?

[churchinski]

Ohhh... A feisty one!!!

Very well then.

First off, you can drop the WGR rhetoric (Since I never listen to the crap) and the implications I don't know hockey. (Apparently differing opinions get you all kinds of testy too).

Zubrus has been an underacheiver, for the talent he was perceived as having coming out of Junior. That does not mean he was not, or can't be effective. He is not a scorer. That much is known. He is a big player who offers a phsyical presence and kills penalties. He also, while not scoring, did have a number of assists in the playoffs.

As for the Sabres not offerring him a deal, I think the current situation makes it clear why they did not, not to mention the comments made shortly after they acquired him. He was no more than a rent-a-player acquired using Marty's salary cap space. No more. No less.
Listen you make my point.
People get roped into hype when a trade is made and then the myth has momemtum.

I knew what he was as a player before they brought him in and was immune to all that BS.

Zubrus throughout his career has not been a physical force

Like a lot of players when his contract wound down suddenly he got involved
with the prospect of a FA contract.

He did not have a "number of assists"
His point total was PATHETIC for a player who spent the amount of time he did on the 1st unit PP and on a line with Drury.

What he did was ride on Drury's coattails.
He scored zero goals and 8 assists

In 16 games playing on Drury's line how many even strength points do you thing Stafford would end up with ?

Do you think he would fail to exceed Zubrus' 4 assists ?

[Dr. Lecter]

lol lol lol<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1. just exactly what do you consider an experienced player<o:p></o:p>
how much experience do you think Paille had prior to the season ?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
2. waivers ? <o:p></o:p>
they kept Ryan because of waivers ?<o:p></o:p>
you better guess again<o:p></o:p>
Are you aware that in 2005 the Ruff exposed Pominville to waiver after he scored 4 points in 5 preseason games.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And now he is making his roster to include Ryan who because they don't want to expose a player that has done nothing in the NHL and who is on his last leg as far as getting a shot ?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
3. no it is not<o:p></o:p>
the sabres track record for scouting is outstanding<o:p></o:p>
check #2 for Ruff's track record on selecting players<o:p></o:p>
If you need another example Ruff himself was involved in the Sabres deciding to go with Kotalik rather than <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Dumont</st1:place> when they faced cap issues last summer<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Pominville went on to score 18 goals in a span of 19 games in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Rochester</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p>
How does Dumont look in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Nashville</st1:place></st1:City> ?<o:p></o:p>
Is he playing as good as Kotalik or better ?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1. More than <st1:place w:st="on">Stafford</st1:place>. And, like I said (and you conveniently ignored) is the diverse ability of Paille. PK, physical play. <st1:place w:st="on">Stafford</st1:place>, especially at that time, was a goal scorer. The Sabres had plenty of those. <o:p></o:p>
2. You seem to like to make comparisons that are not similar. At that time Pomminville had little or no NHL experience and had the Sabres players were not as well respected. There was also the factor that the new NHL had not arrived, making quick guys like Ryan and Pomminville that much more desired. So yeah, waivers, experience and all that does factor into play, especially when a guy (i.e. MacArthur) needs ice time. He can get 15-20 minutes a game in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Rochester</st1:place></st1:City>, including PP, PK, and end of game situations. He won’t get that in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City>.<o:p></o:p>
3. Another different situation. They could walk away from <st1:place w:st="on">Dumont</st1:place>, not Kotalik. And again, two different players. For one ,Kotalik is valuable in the regular season as one of the best shootout guys in the league. There is also the fact that Dumont would have been an <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UFA</st1:place></st1:City> this past off-season, whereas Kotalik was not. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Granted that one could have gone the other way (I would have to see the salaries too though). But it is not cut and dried like you seem to think. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[churchinski]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1. More than <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:place w:st="on">Stafford</st1:place>. And, like I said (and you conveniently ignored) is the diverse ability of Paille. PK, physical play. <st1:place w:st="on">Stafford</st1:place>, especially at that time, was a goal scorer. The Sabres had plenty of those. <o:p></o:p>
2. You seem to like to make comparisons that are not similar. At that time Pomminville had little or no NHL experience and had the Sabres players were not as well respected. There was also the factor that the new NHL had not arrived, making quick guys like Ryan and Pomminville that much more desired. So yeah, waivers, experience and all that does factor into play, especially when a guy (i.e. MacArthur) needs ice time. He can get 15-20 minutes a game in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Rochester</st1:place></st1:City>, including PP, PK, and end of game situations. He won’t get that in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City>.<o:p></o:p>
3. Another different situation. They could walk away from <st1:place w:st="on">Dumont</st1:place>, not Kotalik. And again, two different players. For one ,Kotalik is valuable in the regular season as one of the best shootout guys in the league. There is also the fact that Dumont would have been an <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UFA</st1:place></st1:City> this past off-season, whereas Kotalik was not. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Granted that one could have gone the other way (I would have to see the salaries too though). But it is not cut and dried like you seem to think. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1. Paille is a more physical player than Stafford ?

2. there is no way to avoid comparing Ryan to exposing Pominville
The speed think is a contrived rationalization
Pominville wasn't just a fast player he was a skill player !
And Ruff had him in camp and it went right over his head

Ryan is nowhere near the type of playe pominville was even in 2005
Ruff completely missed it and they exposed a back to back 30 goal scorer

To even attempt to rationalize that is useless

3. more rationalizing
the offer dumont got in abritration only took place because they never gave him an offer prior to arbitration they made their decision on him PRIOR to abritration

LOOK it up because they as much as said so themselves !

They put themselves up against the cap before he even hit arbitration.
They had already resigned themselves to letting Dumont go in favor of keeping younger players like Kotalik.

They said it themselves.

So they were NOt boxed into a one year contract with Dumont....they already dropped him before the arbitration and never offered him a multiyear deal.

They just simply dropped him in a numbers game.

[churchinski]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1. More than <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:place w:st="on">Stafford</st1:place>. And, like I said (and you conveniently ignored) is the diverse ability of Paille. PK, physical play. <st1:place w:st="on">Stafford</st1:place>, especially at that time, was a goal scorer. The Sabres had plenty of those. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Yeah Paille's vast experience amounted to 14 NHL games at that point

with limited ice time no doubt

LOL

[churchinski]

Did you watch Stafford in the playoffs?

He was awful.

What Zubrus brought, was a physical style the team was lacking. He was one of the better players in the playoffs.

yes I watched Stafford in the playoffs and he was far far better than Zubrus

I'm not sure which playoffs you watched if any at all

So let me clue you in on what happened


How many games did each of these players play in the playoffs ?
Zubrus 16
Stafford 10

How much total ice time did each of these players see ?
Zubrus 280 minutes
Stafford 118 minutes

Zubrus is a defensive physical player ?.....hmmm let's look at plus/ minus
Zubrus +1
Stafford +3

How many goals did each player score ?
Zubrus ...ZERO ! he layed a playoff goose egg ( but keep reading it gets worse much worse)
Stafford 2

How many total points did they have
Zubrus 8
Stafford 4

zubrus ...1 point for every 35 minutes
Stafford..1 point for every 29.5 minutes

Now here is where we show just how bad a playoffs Zubrus ( a player we traded a 1st round pick for) ....

he was not only was outplayed by Stafford he was outplayed even though he had a HUGE HUGE HUGE advantage over Stafford

And what was that you ask ?.....power play time

How Huge was this advantage for Zubrus?...a hell of a lot larger than you are apparently aware

So lets take a look ok?

Power play ice time in minutes

Zubrus 60.5 minutes !!!!!
Stafford 1.5 minutes !!!!!


And you are questioning if I watched the playoffs ??

LOL

[Michael82]

Ohhh... A feisty one!!!

Very well then.

First off, you can drop the WGR rhetoric (Since I never listen to the crap) and the implications I don't know hockey. (Apparently differing opinions get you all kinds of testy too).

Zubrus has been an underacheiver, for the talent he was perceived as having coming out of Junior. That does not mean he was not, or can't be effective. He is not a scorer. That much is known. He is a big player who offers a phsyical presence and kills penalties. He also, while not scoring, did have a number of assists in the playoffs.

As for the Sabres not offerring him a deal, I think the current situation makes it clear why they did not, not to mention the comments made shortly after they acquired him. He was no more than a rent-a-player acquired using Marty's salary cap space. No more. No less.
and they dropped the ball on that one. Once they saw what he could do for them in the playoffs, be another Mike Grier. They should have locked him up. But they didn't even give him a ****ing lowball offer. None whatsoever. :sigh:

[THATHURMANATOR]

That's typical.

Is Ruff efn blind ?

This is the same guy that was accelerating Paille in front of Stafford , last year.
Stafford only saw ice after injuries.
Ruff had Paille rated in front of Drew Stafford !

If he can't see what they have in MacArthur then I don't know what he's smoking.

I'll say this ...after MacArthur gets his shot and sticks then look back and try to figure out how they could have arrived at having Ryan and Paille on the regular roster in front of MacArthur.

Every bit as ridiculous as going through a training camp last year and figuring Paile as being more NHL capable then Stafford.

The fact that Ryan has to clear waivers doesn't mean squat, he's not an in demand player at this point and probably never will be.


I do feel that Mcarthur is more talented than Ryan but in the grand scheme of things Mcarthur will get more playing time in Rochester for the near future. I am sure he will be the first call up. I also felt Ryan filled in well last year and was at least on par with Clarke.

Paille is no slouch and fit the type of player Ruff wanted at the beginning of last season not to mention he had more seasoning that Stafford. This by no means says that Ruff thought Paille had more talent just felt he was more ready for the big show.

[OpIv37]

holy ****, now I know how other people must feel when they read an Op/Justa thread in the main forum.

[JD]

Where did this church guy come from anyway..

Thank GOD he predicted Edwards would own the NFL, lol.


But anyway I thought MacArthur and Sekera were just going down to play for the Amerks, then coming back for Fridays game at the HSBC.. probably wrong but whatever. I love Mac's work ethic. He should be in the club.

[churchinski]

Where did this church guy come from anyway..

Thank GOD he predicted Edwards would own the NFL, lol.


But anyway I thought MacArthur and Sekera were just going down to play for the Amerks, then coming back for Fridays game at the HSBC.. probably wrong but whatever. I love Mac's work ethic. He should be in the club.

Well someone has to shoot down your predictions of Losman taking the Bills to multiple super bowls because they just don't make any sense

Any that's why I can't figure out what hole you crawled out of

[churchinski]

and they dropped the ball on that one. Once they saw what he could do for them in the playoffs, be another Mike Grier. They should have locked him up. But they didn't even give him a ****ing lowball offer. None whatsoever. :sigh:
The only negotiation they handled correctly was Zubrus', by deciding he wasn't even worth a phone call.

[churchinski]

I do feel that Mcarthur is more talented than Ryan but in the grand scheme of things Mcarthur will get more playing time in Rochester for the near future. I am sure he will be the first call up. I also felt Ryan filled in well last year and was at least on par with Clarke.

Paille is no slouch and fit the type of player Ruff wanted at the beginning of last season not to mention he had more seasoning that Stafford. This by no means says that Ruff thought Paille had more talent just felt he was more ready for the big show.

1st you are still stuck with this myth you have apparently picked up that says Paille had significant NHL experience prior to 2006 in order to give Ruff a pass on advancing Paille over Stafford.

He appeared in 14 NHL games with sparse ice time prior to 2006.

Pure rationalization not rooted in fact, an excuse you are drumming up for Ruff is all it is.

Stafford is a player that is levels above and beyond Paille and it went right over Ruffs head.

Worse than that he might have decided that a player like Paille is his preference for winning under his system as you suggest.
And that logic is more unbelievable as selecting Paille over Stafford on a skill basis.
Which is exactly the type of decision I said worries me about Ruff.

So in either case Ruff's decision is idiotic.




I also felt Ryan filled in well last year and was at least on par with Clarke.

That is where we really disagree.
Apparently you and Ruff believe that MacArthur and Ryan are interchangable.
But I am certain that MacArthur is a far far better player than Ryan.

And the fact that they signed Ryan to a last chance low level contract shouldn't interfer with the progress of a far better player like MacArthur.

Ryan is a player running out of auditions.
MacArthur is a player on the rise.

[THATHURMANATOR]

1st you are still stuck with this myth you have apparently picked up that says Paille had significant NHL experience prior to 2006 in order to give Ruff a pass on advancing Paille over Stafford.

He appeared in 14 NHL games with sparse ice time prior to 2006.

Pure rationalization not rooted in fact, an excuse you are drumming up for Ruff is all it is.

Stafford is a player that is levels above and beyond Paille and it went right over Ruffs head.

Worse than that he might have decided that player like Paille is his preference for winning under his system as you suggest.
And that logic is more unbelievable as selecting Paille over Stafford on a skill basis.
Which is exactly the type of decision I said worries me about Ruff.

So in either case Ruff's decision is idiotic.



That is where we really disagree.
Apparently you and Ruff believe that MacArthur and Ryan are interchangable.
But I am certain that MacArthur is a far far better player than Ryan.

And the fact that they signed Ryan to a last chance low level contract shouldn't interfer with the progress of a far better player like MacArthur.

Ryan is a player running out of auditions.
MacArthur is a player on the rise.
He had a year in Rochester is what I mainly meant.

Either way who gives two ****s?

[Dr. Lecter]

But again, the decision is not only based on skill. It is based on what role a player will fulfill. Paille's skill set, i.e. physical play and PK, was a better fit at the time. Furthermore, what Stafford needed at that time was the playing time he could get in Rochester, but would not get in Buffalo. Your argument also mistakenly assumes that Stafford would have been as successful at the start of last season as he was partway through.

And also, once again on Ryan and MacArthur, it is about maintaining depth for the entire season. Losing a player like Ryan now damages the depth for this team in December and January. How many legit players are there in Rochester to call up? MacArthur? Yep.

After that? Not Kaleta. Maybe Zagrupan. Hunter? Nope.

So who else? It is about having the best team over the long haul. Not the most talented team on opening night.

[Dr. Lecter]

holy ****, now I know how other people must feel when they read an Op/Justa thread in the main forum.

Yeah, well if we do this 50 more times, we can catch up to you two.

[churchinski]

But again, the decision is not only based on skill. It is based on what role a player will fulfill. Paille's skill set, i.e. physical play and PK, was a better fit at the time. Furthermore, what Stafford needed at that time was the playing time he could get in Rochester, but would not get in Buffalo. Your argument also mistakenly assumes that Stafford would have been as successful at the start of last season as he was partway through.

And also, once again on Ryan and MacArthur, it is about maintaining depth for the entire season. Losing a player like Ryan now damages the depth for this team in December and January. How many legit players are there in Rochester to call up? MacArthur? Yep.

After that? Not Kaleta. Maybe Zagrupan. Hunter? Nope.

So who else? It is about having the best team over the long haul. Not the most talented team on opening night.
Again you are fabricating

So are you telling me that Paille is a more physical player than Stafford and that played into why Ruff missed the boat on Stafford coming out of training camp in 2006 ?

Because you keep going with this ...physical play crap ?

so lets cut through the BS...is Paille a more physical player that Stafford ?

I say it's the opposite ....Stafford is clearly a more physical player.



On Ryan...
1. what gave you the bizzarre idea that teams will be lining up to snag Ryan ?
2. where do you get the idea that holding back MacArthur is worth it just to avoid the small risk of losing a player like Ryan who has not made a dent in the NHL ?

[THATHURMANATOR]

But again, the decision is not only based on skill. It is based on what role a player will fulfill. Paille's skill set, i.e. physical play and PK, was a better fit at the time. Furthermore, what Stafford needed at that time was the playing time he could get in Rochester, but would not get in Buffalo. Your argument also mistakenly assumes that Stafford would have been as successful at the start of last season as he was partway through.

And also, once again on Ryan and MacArthur, it is about maintaining depth for the entire season. Losing a player like Ryan now damages the depth for this team in December and January. How many legit players are there in Rochester to call up? MacArthur? Yep.

After that? Not Kaleta. Maybe Zagrupan. Hunter? Nope.

So who else? It is about having the best team over the long haul. Not the most talented team on opening night.

I am with you Dr! but I am sure Churchinskiwings will tell us just how stupid we really are.... We just don't realize it.... :(

[THATHURMANATOR]

Again you are fabricating

So are you telling me that Paille is a more physical player than Stafford and tht playing into why Ruff missed the boat on Stafford coming out of training camp in 2006 ?

Because you keep going with this ...physical play crap ?

so lets cut through the BS...is Paille a more physical player that Stafford ?

I say it the opposite ....Stafford is clearly a more physical player.
Not necessarily more physical but more of a defensive player is all. In reality Stafford is a fantastic player and quite a bit better than Paille but it is easy to say that now since we have seen him in action. Last year no one had much to go on with Stafford.

[Dr. Lecter]

Again you are fabricating

So are you telling me that Paille is a more physical player than Stafford and that played into why Ruff missed the boat on Stafford coming out of training camp in 2006 ?

Because you keep going with this ...physical play crap ?

so lets cut through the BS...is Paille a more physical player that Stafford ?

I say it's the opposite ....Stafford is clearly a more physical player.



On Ryan...
1. what gave you the bizzarre idea that teams will be lining up to snag Ryan ?
2. where do you get the idea that holding back MacArthur is worth it just to avoid the small risk of losing a player like Ryan who has not made a dent in the NHL ?

You tell me I fabricate? First off, I never said teams would "line-up" to snag Ryan. But is Chris Thornburn gets snagged, you can be sure that Ryan would. He would be great for a team like Pheonix or Chicago. And if he is lost, who becomes the top call up from Rochester? Are you going to try and tell me Mancari, Hunter, Kaleta or Zagrupan is ready for that?????

An d they are not holding back MacArthur. He will get to play 20 minutes a game, not 10. He will get to play in many differnet situations, not just even strength. So it is a decisionthat makes more long term sense.

As for the physical play you once again ignore most of what was said. Paille is more well rounded and offers a different skill set. At the start of last year, the Sabres had boatloads of goal scorers. They did not need another.

I love Stafford. Almost bought his jersey this summer (they were out). But I see where Lindy was coming from. Paille had more professional experience. He is a better fit for the 4th line. He contributes on the PK.

All skills needed at that time.

[churchinski]

You tell me I fabricate? First off, I never said teams would "line-up" to snag Ryan. But is Chris Thornburn gets snagged, you can be sure that Ryan would. He would be great for a team like Pheonix or Chicago. And if he is lost, who becomes the top call up from Rochester? Are you going to try and tell me Mancari, Hunter, Kaleta or Zagrupan is ready for that?????

An d they are not holding back MacArthur. He will get to play 20 minutes a game, not 10. He will get to play in many differnet situations, not just even strength. So it is a decisionthat makes more long term sense.

As for the physical play you once again ignore most of what was said. Paille is more well rounded and offers a different skill set. At the start of last year, the Sabres had boatloads of goal scorers. They did not need another.

I love Stafford. Almost bought his jersey this summer (they were out). But I see where Lindy was coming from. Paille had more professional experience. He is a better fit for the 4th line. He contributes on the PK.

All skills needed at that time.

Oh we are running out of excuses for Ruff now ?

LOL

You started with

1. he had NHL experience ....that was pointed out as laughable considering is experience barely amounted to a brief appearance

2. the Sabres need his physical play...only you forgot to mention that Stafford is a more physical player

3. now you have this strange idea that Paille is a better defense forward than Stafford

4. and he becomes in your mind a PK specialist in order to make the case right for Ruff


So with these weak excuses you have been giving us let me ask you a question...

Where would you draw the line in giving Ruff a pass on selecting lunchpail players over top level players ?

Would you have given him a pass had he sent Ovechkin down to the minors for half a season ?

Because i'm trying to gauge how far your excuses carry for Ruff, you talk as if Stafford and Paille are close enough in what they bring to this team that it makes the decision Ruff made reasonable.

But Stafford is not that type of player , he is not an average player shuffling around between Buffalo and Rochester .



So how good in your mind does a player need to be before you say..what the hell was Ruff thinking ?

You apparently didn't seem to think he missed the boat on Pominville when he exposed him to waivers but at the same time use this as a reason to keep Ryan on the Sabres roster instead of in Rochester where he should be in a decision between him and MacArthur.

Hell of a contradiction @!

Would you give Ruff a pass if he had exposed Crosby to waivers?



In other words how blind does a coach need to be in order for you to say ...WTF ?

How extreme would it need to be ?

[Dr. Lecter]

Excuses for Ruff???

:rofl:

This guy is considered one of the best coaches in the NHL. He has taken teams deep into the playoffs playing tight, defensive style winning 2-1. He has done so playing run and gun, winning games 6-5. None of that means he is perfect. But it also means that maybe, just maybe he knows what he is doing.

He hardly needs Thurm or I to defend him.

As for Pominville, that logical fallacy comparison was easily explained.

As for changing reasons, that hardly happened either. Unfortanetly we are getting to the point that we are getting nowhere.

[churchinski]

Not necessarily more physical but more of a defensive player is all. In reality Stafford is a fantastic player and quite a bit better than Paille but it is easy to say that now since we have seen him in action. Last year no one had much to go on with Stafford.
Speak for yourself

You didn't have much to go on.

This is a multimillion dollar coaching staff that brings these players to camp for weeks.

They had just as much on Stafford as they did on Paille


You say it yourself...Stafford is an outstanding player ...and guess what ...it went right past Ruff

Why?
Because he is locked into what he sees as his ideal .
Primarily lunchpail players
He gets blinded to a degree by his affinity for the lunchpail players

[churchinski]

Excuses for Ruff???

:rofl:


As for Pominville, that logical fallacy comparison was easily explained.

.

What ?

1. there is no fallacy it's fact
2. you have no explaination for it let alone an easy one

[churchinski]

Excuses for Ruff???

:rofl:

This guy is considered one of the best coaches in the NHL. He has taken teams deep into the playoffs playing tight, defensive style winning 2-1. He has done so playing run and gun, winning games 6-5. None of that means he is perfect. But it also means that maybe, just maybe he knows what he is doing.

He hardly needs Thurm or I to defend him.

As for Pominville, that logical fallacy comparison was easily explained.

As for changing reasons, that hardly happened either. Unfortanetly we are getting to the point that we are getting nowhere.

Primarily it is players that win

Do you think there will be a big fall off in Ottawa without Murphy behind the bench ?

He took a team to the finals ...Ruff hasn't


Ruff was badly outcoached in the ECF

[Dr. Lecter]

What ?

1. there is no fallacy it's fact
2. you have no explaination for it let alone an easy one

Ummm....

When Pominville was sent down he had no NHL expereince at all. He had looked good in one pre-season. The team had more than one recall availabel in Rochester. The NHL was still changing into a skating game where guys like Pominville succeed. And the Sabres depth and talent ws not respected like it is now. And there was no cap where a cheap played like Pominville was desirable.

So you are comparing two disimilar situations.

Tell me, does a guy like Thornburn get snagged but Ryan does not?

[Dr. Lecter]

Primarily it is players that win

Do you think there will be a big fall off in Ottawa without Murphy behind the bench ?

He took a team to the finals ...Ruff hasn't


Ruff was badly outcoached in the ECF

Really?

You sure about that one?

Think carefully.

[churchinski]

Ummm....

When Pominville was sent down he had no NHL expereince at all. He had looked good in one pre-season. The team had more than one recall availabel in Rochester. The NHL was still changing into a skating game where guys like Pominville succeed. And the Sabres depth and talent ws not respected like it is now. And there was no cap where a cheap played like Pominville was desirable.

So you are comparing two disimilar situations.

Tell me, does a guy like Thornburn get snagged but Ryan does not?

How is that an excuse ?

Pominville is a back to back 30 goal scorer


Here let me clue you in ....

No coach would agree to saying...I can't spot skilled players before they play a full season even if they are players that are 30 goal scores

LOL that is laughable

Hey if that is the way it is done than an NHL coach is no better than a 12 year old kid sitting in the stand ...neither one of the knows talent until after they get on the scoreboard

this is where you are making the least amount of sense, zero sense


how can anyone suggest...well he would know if the player had any talent at all because they player didn't score any goals yet...so he was correct to assume the player was a bust and exposed him to waivers

OMG YOU MUST JOKING

[Dr. Lecter]

You know, you really need to stop twisting people words and changing them.

[Dr. Lecter]

So has Lindy taken a team to the finals or not?

[churchinski]

This is the same type of illogical thinking that comes from the JP LOSSMAN school of excuses

How would we judge him he is just a 3rd year rookie ?

Coaches get paid to evaluate players , they are supposed to be experts not equivalent to a kid in the stands who doesn't know until after the pucks actually go in the net

[BlackMetalNinja]

I'm so glad somebody finally showed up to show all of us uneducated fans just how things really are.

So how long is your contract as Head Coach of the Sabres for anyways?

[churchinski]

So has Lindy taken a team to the finals or not?

It is primarily players that win

Ruff has had the benefit of a loaded roster and fortunately when he misevaluates these players they go down to Rochester and prove him wrong then he gets a second crack at fixing his blunder.

In the case of Stafford had he not needed to get hit over the head, and Stafford got more time in the regular season, then Stafford would have been in a bigger role by the time the playoffs arrived and he would not have been in the pressbox in favor of a dime-a-dozen player like Zubrus

LOL

[Dr. Lecter]

This is the same type of illogical thinking that comes from the JP LOSSMAN school of excuses

How would we judge him he is just a 3rd year rookie ?

Coaches get paid to evaluate players , they are supposed to be experts not equivalent to a kid in the stands who doesn't know until after the pucks actually go in the net

So maybe Lindy knows more than you or I considering he has coached 3 teams to the ECF and one to the SCF? Just maybe?

And apparently every coach in the NHL sucks by your Pominvile standard, considering NOBODY claimed him.

Would that be correct?

[churchinski]

I'm so glad somebody finally showed up to show all of us uneducated fans just how things really are.

So how long is your contract as Head Coach of the Sabres for anyways?

You're welcome

now when you are talking hockey over beers you will be aware that NHL coaches are supposed to know talent when they see it

[Dr. Lecter]

It is primarily players that win

Ruff has had the benefit of a loaded roster and fortunately when he misevaluates these players they go down to Rochester and prove him wrong then he gets a second crack at fixing his blunder.

In the case of Stafford had he not needed to get hit over the head, and Stafford got more time in the regular season, then Stafford would have been in a bigger role by the time the playoffs arrived and he would not have been in the pressbox in favor of a dime-a-dozen player like Zubrus

LOL
He had a loaded roster when he took the Sabres to the Stanley Cup????

Vaclav Freakin' Varda??? Dixon Ward????? Brian Holzinger? Derek Plante?

That team was loaded???

[churchinski]

So maybe Lindy knows more than you or I considering he has coached 3 teams to the ECF and one to the SCF? Just maybe?

And apparently every coach in the NHL sucks by your Pominvile standard, considering NOBODY claimed him.

Would that be correct?

no

those coaches are evaluating thier own players in thier own camps and may not have gotten a look at Pominville

they certainly didn't have him through a camp like Ruff did

[Dr. Lecter]

I see. And sending him down hurt the team how exactly?

[churchinski]

He had a loaded roster when he took the Sabres to the Stanley Cup????

Vaclav Freakin' Varda??? Dixon Ward????? Brian Holzinger? Derek Plante?

That team was loaded???

Uhhhh Dominic Hasek ?
The best overall defense in the league ?

[churchinski]

I see. And sending him down hurt the team how exactly?
So because he got lucky and no one picked him up that means Ruff knows talent ?

[churchinski]

So maybe Lindy knows more than you or I considering he has coached 3 teams to the ECF and one to the SCF? Just maybe?

And apparently every coach in the NHL sucks by your Pominvile standard, considering NOBODY claimed him.

Would that be correct?

this is exactly what people that run out of excuses revert to by default


Here is the snynopsis of this type of conversation:

Ruff made a mistake with...blah blah blah

No he did here is why...blah blah blah

Wrong here is why ..blah blah blah

Ok i'm stuck so now I need a crutch...the sabres have been a playoff team so...Ruff was the coach...so I was right...



LOL pathetic

[Philagape]

I clicked this thread just to see how on earth this move gets three pages, and as soon as I did, I nearly passed out from the stench of the latest loudmouth know-nothing turd posts. Come and go, come and go ...

[Dr. Lecter]

:sadwalk:

[Philagape]

:sadwalk:

I refuse to in any way acknowledge the depositor of the turds, but it wasn't you.

[JD]

Well someone has to shoot down your predictions of Losman taking the Bills to multiple super bowls because they just don't make any sense

Any that's why I can't figure out what hole you crawled out of
..hmm you must be confusing me with someone else seeing that i've never been a jp supporter. id take holcomb, nall, and trent with 3 years exp with THIS organisation over jploser. Thanks though, holy one.
:bow:

[churchinski]

..hmm you must be confusing me with someone else seeing that i've never been a jp supporter. id take holcomb, nall, and trent with 3 years exp with THIS organisation over jploser. Thanks though, holy one.
:bow:

I didn't say you were but you use the same type of approach that Losman groupies use

[churchinski]

I clicked this thread just to see how on earth this move gets three pages, and as soon as I did, I nearly passed out from the stench of the latest loudmouth know-nothing turd posts. Come and go, come and go ...

if there is an ultimate no nothing on this forum you are one of the top 3 candidates

[churchinski]

I refuse to in any way acknowledge the depositor of the turds, but it wasn't you.

do not bother acknowledging just clean yourself off as best you can as they are being deposited

[Nighthawk]

Lindy Ruff is not the problem with this organization and we are lucky to have him as HC. On the other hand, this organization's commitment to winning can now be questioned.

[churchinski]

Lindy Ruff is not the problem with this organization and we are lucky to have him as HC. On the other hand, this organization's commitment to winning can now be questioned.
he is not what I would call a problem but he isn't this wonder coach people want to make him out to be

he got outcoached in the playoffs last year and he is not mistake free