a 45 yard penalty?

[trapezeus]

does anyone remember the game situation when Marshawn was hit out of bounds, faskmasked and horsecollared? If the bills got 15 yards would it have helped that drive, or was that drive the INT drive? I can't remember.

I hate football so much right now?

[Mahdi]

does anyone remember the game situation when Marshawn was hit out of bounds, faskmasked and horsecollared? If the bills got 15 yards would it have helped that drive, or was that drive the INT drive? I can't remember.

I hate football so much right now?
That was bloody shocking!! A horse collar by Mr. "Invented the horse collar rule myself" Williams and NO PERONAL FOUL! AND a facemask??? That was complete BS.

[Ickybaluky]

IMO, the horse collar was not as bad as the late hit by Newman. The horsecollar is a judgement call, you have to pull the guy backwards. Merely having him by the collar isn't enough. They called the facemask instead, making it a 5-yarder.

However, the out-of-bounds hit by Newman was an obvious call. That should have been called.

[The King]

I hate football so much right now?

I dont know do you?

[JDSmith]

As far as I know you can only accept 1 penalty. So unless I'm mistaken even if they had called all 3 you would have only gotten 15 yards and the others would be declined as a rule.

[Mahdi]

IMO, the horse collar was not as bad as the late hit by Newman. The horsecollar is a judgement call, you have to pull the guy backwards. Merely having him by the collar isn't enough. They called the facemask instead, making it a 5-yarder.

However, the out-of-bounds hit by Newman was an obvious call. That should have been called.
Roy pulled him down exactly how the rule describes it. He grabbed the collar at the back of the neck and dragged himself to the ground pulling Lynch back with him. It was a typical horse-collar.

[Ickybaluky]

Roy pulled him down exactly how the rule describes it. He grabbed the collar at the back of the neck and dragged himself to the ground pulling Lynch back with him. It was a typical horse-collar.

I probably would have called it, but I'm just saying it is the refs judgement. If you pull the guys backward it is a horse collar, but if you hang on the collar and he falls foward it is not. You have to drag the back backwards.

I thought the late hit out-of-bounds was a worse non-call. That was blatant and should have drawn an automatic flag.

[HHURRICANE]

IMO, the horse collar was not as bad as the late hit by Newman. The horsecollar is a judgement call, you have to pull the guy backwards. Merely having him by the collar isn't enough. They called the facemask instead, making it a 5-yarder.

However, the out-of-bounds hit by Newman was an obvious call. That should have been called.

Okay, you are wrong. Morning drive on Sirrius can't believe that it wasn't called and Randy Cross thinks he will get suspended for it. "When you grab the collar and put all of your weight down on it, that's a penalty."

Are you serious??

[JDSmith]

Roy pulled him down exactly how the rule describes it. He grabbed the collar at the back of the neck and dragged himself to the ground pulling Lynch back with him. It was a typical horse-collar.

IMO it wasn't. He didn't pull him backwards. That's the key to the horsecollar being called. He pulled him to the side. The fact that he got a hand up in front of him, and got the facemask, shows that it was not a horsecollar tackle, because in a true horsecollar tackle you wouldn't be able to grab the front of the guy at all, you're pulling backwards on the jersey or shoulderpads by his neck. The actual horsecollar tackle is very rare, which is why it's only called one or two times a week. And why it's a stupid rule.

[JDSmith]

Okay, you are wrong. Morning drive on Sirrius can't believe that it wasn't called and Randy Cross thinks he will get suspended for it. "When you grab the collar and put all of your weight down on it, that's a penalty."

Are you serious??

Randy Cross is flat out wrong. Had it been a true horsecollar tackle Newman would have missed the hit. Because for it to be a true horsecollar he would have had to be pulled backwards. You can grab inside the collar, you can drag a guy down by it, you just can't grab it and immediately yank him backwards. 90% of the fanbase, and probably the announcers, don't understand how the penalty is supposed to be called. When they made the rule, they even said that Roy Williams, the guy they invented it for, would have only been flagged for one of the 3 tackles that motivated the rule. He would not have been flagged on the others - including the one that broke Musa Smith's leg - because he pulled him down to the side.

[DraftBoy]

No matter your definition of horse collar or not, the missed late hit there was ridiculous.

[HHURRICANE]

Randy Cross is flat out wrong. Had it been a true horsecollar tackle Newman would have missed the hit. Because for it to be a true horsecollar he would have had to be pulled backwards. You can grab inside the collar, you can drag a guy down by it, you just can't grab it and immediately yank him backwards. 90% of the fanbase, and probably the announcers, don't understand how the penalty is supposed to be called. When they made the rule, they even said that Roy Williams, the guy they invented it for, would have only been flagged for one of the 3 tackles that motivated the rule. He would not have been flagged on the others - including the one that broke Musa Smith's leg - because he pulled him down to the side.

Okay, tell me this after he gets fined or suspended.

[JDSmith]

Okay, tell me this after he gets fined or suspended.

I won't be here when he's not fined or suspended, and you and Randy Cross will both forget about it. And that will lead to more confusion about the rule and more people who don't understand how it's supposed to be called. Because Randy Cross was saying it's a penalty, so it must be... right?

[Ickybaluky]

Okay, you are wrong. Morning drive on Sirrius can't believe that it wasn't called and Randy Cross thinks he will get suspended for it. "When you grab the collar and put all of your weight down on it, that's a penalty."

Are you serious??

To get called for a horse collar you not only have to grab the collar but you have to yank the player backwards to the turf. The refs may not have called it because Lynch didn't fall backwards.

The late hit out-of-bounds was textbook, and should have drawn an automatic flag.

[trapezeus]

just to clarify, i didn't really think there would be a 45 yard penalty, but i do think there were 3 15 yard penalties to chose from and refs picked none of them.

I understand what NE39 is saying. True, it might not be text book horsecollar, but the rule was created to protect players. And i've seen several games (non bills games) where it happens and they just don't call it. if you're not going to protect the players, then don't make it a rule.

The helmet to helmet late hit was atrocious.

[Mahdi]

I probably would have called it, but I'm just saying it is the refs judgement. If you pull the guys backward it is a horse collar, but if you hang on the collar and he falls foward it is not. You have to drag the back backwards.

I thought the late hit out-of-bounds was a worse non-call. That was blatant and should have drawn an automatic flag.
If you watch it again youll see he is pulled backwards though.... and that is how Newman got shot at his head late.

[JDSmith]

If you watch it again youll see he is pulled backwards though.... and that is how Newman got shot at his head late.

The fact that Roy got his arm around front and actually had his hand on the facemask makes it impossible for that tackle to be a text book horsecollar tackle. He was pulled to the side because Roy was on the side. For it to be a real horsecollar Roy would have had to be behind him and pull him backwards. That was not a horsecollar tackle according to the rules. And that's why the official, who was standing less than a foot away, didn't throw the flag for it.

As for Newman's hit, I'd have to see it again in real time to see if it happened quickly enough that he couldn't have pulled up. I remember it looked like a late hit in slow motion, but I'll have to watch it again at full speed to know for sure.

[Mahdi]

The fact that Roy got his arm around front and actually had his hand on the facemask makes it impossible for that tackle to be a text book horsecollar tackle. He was pulled to the side because Roy was on the side. For it to be a real horsecollar Roy would have had to be behind him and pull him backwards. That was not a horsecollar tackle according to the rules. And that's why the official, who was standing less than a foot away, didn't throw the flag for it.

As for Newman's hit, I'd have to see it again in real time to see if it happened quickly enough that he couldn't have pulled up. I remember it looked like a late hit in slow motion, but I'll have to watch it again at full speed to know for sure.
Ok I wont argue this,,,,, just watch it again,,,, this game will surely be on replay on NFL network.

[Ickybaluky]

Ok I wont argue this,,,,, just watch it again,,,, this game will surely be on replay on NFL network.

Only if it is the bonus game. They already set the 3 games they are going to show:

Monday
» Miami Dolphins at Houston Texans, 7 p.m. ET
Tuesday
» New York Jets at New York Giants, 8 p.m. ET
» Atlanta Falcons at Tennessee Titans, 10:30 P.M. ET

They will show the bonus game (usually the best game of the week that wasn't scheduled to be shown) on Wednesday, so maybe they will use the Bills for that game.

[chernobylwraiths]

Plenty of misses by the Refs as usual

TO definitely would have caught that one ball in bounds.
Missed horse collar and then helmet to helmet late hit out of bounds.
But rolling off only 7 seconds total on the onsides kick and the deep in to TO that was eventually ruled incomplete were tough as well.

But, the Bills choked this game away.

[DraftBoy]

Plenty of misses by the Refs as usual

TO definitely would have caught that one ball in bounds.
Missed horse collar and then helmet to helmet late hit out of bounds.
But rolling off only 7 seconds total on the onsides kick and the deep in to TO that was eventually ruled incomplete were tough as well.

But, the Bills choked this game away.

Im not sure about that call, a Dallas buddy of mine called and said it was good call in the end that he was sure TO was going to definitely come down with the 2nd foot, so he said it was a solid call not that it means a whole lot. I think the clock work was also spot on. Very good refereeing job overall, only bad miss was the helmet to helmet late hit.

[TigerJ]

If I remember that play, the facemask was a judgement, but it was at least as much of a facemask as was called on the Buffalo defender for 15 yards. The thing that made me mad was a helmut to helmut hit out of bounds on that same play. That's the one I thought should have been called.

[YardRat]

I thought both fouls were committed....and at least one of them should have been called.

[Michael82]

The facemask penalty and the late helmet to helmet hits were definite penalties. I was amazed that the ref didn't call the late hit. It was very late and it was even a ****ing helmet to helmet hit. How that wasn't called is beyond me. :ill: :mad:

As for the horse collar, it definitely looked like it to me, but it is questionable.

[Ickybaluky]

Looks like the NFL agrees they should have been called (http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=5B89FB824D26420951D7FFA7D41B1821?id=09000d5d80333bb8&template=without-video&confirm=true) penalties:

Roy Williams fined $15K for horsecollar tackle.

Terence Newman fined $5K for hitting with his helmet.

[trapezeus]

and the fines would be how much if they hit LT or Maroney? Thanks for Nothing NFL.

[Michael82]

Looks like the NFL agrees they should have been called (http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story;jsessionid=5B89FB824D26420951D7FFA7D41B1821?id=09000d5d80333bb8&template=without-video&confirm=true) penalties:

Roy Williams fined $15K for horsecollar tackle.

Terence Newman fined $5K for hitting with his helmet.
:sigh: