You knew the officials had to screw us somehow monday night....

[Mitchy moo]

ESPN just reported as I had noted that the game clock never started on the onside kicks. The clock if it started would have been 15-16 seconds not 18 as they reset it. I would even question the Owens trap and where the clock was set. 2-3 seconds would have resulted in a big difference in routes and calls.
___________________________________________________________________________
Click on 4:53 of the video and you will see the officials had the clock reset to show 18 seconds before Dallas ran the first play after the onside. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_1132354-->

Scan 3:40 into the video, clock never ran:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4187534648496207960&q=mnf+dallas&total=52&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

[Mitchy moo]

This reopens the wounds........

[RedEyE]

I thought the Owens trap clock reset was definitly a bunch of BS. They spiked the ball at 1 second.

So, if that's a dead ball how in the world do they put 13 seconds on the clock? Should have been about 5 seconds IMO. 8 at the most.

[camelcowboy]

Is there even a game clock on kick offs

[LtBillsFan66]

Doesn't the clock start when the ball is touched?

[RedEyE]

Is there even a game clock on kick offs
Yes. Game clock ticks down as soon as the ball is touched.

[TacklingDummy]

Yes. Game clock ticks down as soon as the ball is touched.


I find it hard to believe that touching the ball and then running after it only takes 2 seconds.

[camelcowboy]

Yes. Game clock ticks down as soon as the ball is touched.touched? By who? isn't the ball on the tee

[camelcowboy]

Yes. Game clock ticks down as soon as the ball is touched.ok game clock not the play clock, im caught up.

[Gunzlingr]

touched? By who? isn't the ball on the tee

the returner (or whoever after the kick)

[DynaPaul]

Jesus, just let the game go already...

[Mitchy moo]

I find it hard to believe that touching the ball and then running after it only takes 2 seconds.

There was a freaking scrum for the ball as well, it wasn't like it was cut and dry. I would safely say the play from touching should of taken 5-6 seconds, that basically changes what Dallas could of done and forces them into one longer play instead of two with us having our prevent on. It's a F-in joke and I ain't laughing.

I almost cried watching this F-in Video, we really got F-ed.

[Mitchy moo]

I find it hard to believe that touching the ball and then running after it only takes 2 seconds.

You show me ANY play in football that only takes 2 seconds to run and I'll show you a 98-year-old stripper with one leg. That clock should have run at least 5 seconds before stopping, by the time the refs got to the scrum and blew the whistle. Dj needed to be out there on the sideline screaming, throwing the red flag just to get their attention, doing whatever he could. His players played their hearts out. He coached like the game meant nothing. He is a jerk. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_1132470-->

[Dr. Lecter]

I thought the Owens trap clock reset was definitly a bunch of BS. They spiked the ball at 1 second.

So, if that's a dead ball how in the world do they put 13 seconds on the clock? Should have been about 5 seconds IMO. 8 at the most.

Because between the catch and downing of the ball it was probably about 13 seconds.

[Mr. Pink]

After watching this the Refs probably screwed us out of 1 second.
On the onside kick, 3 seconds should have run off, not 2.
The Owens drop, the ball hit the turf at the 13 second mark on the clock, hence why they reset it to 13 seconds.
Either way, the last pass play to the sidelines the clock stopped at 2 and arguably could have been stopped at 3. The refs didn't screw this part of the ending to change the outcome of the game.

What the refs did screw however was a blatant pass interference on Greer in the endzone, you're supposed to play the ball, not the WR. Greer never looks back for the ball and plays Owens all the way.

The sad part is, if that is called correctly, perhaps Dallas gets the 2 and we win in OT. Who knows?

[Mitchy moo]

After watching this the Refs probably screwed us out of 1 second.
On the onside kick, 3 seconds should have run off, not 2.
The Owens drop, the ball hit the turf at the 13 second mark on the clock, hence why they reset it to 13 seconds.
Either way, the last pass play to the sidelines the clock stopped at 2 and arguably could have been stopped at 3. The refs didn't screw this part of the ending to change the outcome of the game.

What the refs did screw however was a blatant pass interference on Greer in the endzone, you're supposed to play the ball, not the WR. Greer never looks back for the ball and plays Owens all the way.

The sad part is, if that is called correctly, perhaps Dallas gets the 2 and we win in OT. Who knows?

What's to say Dallas would of made it on their 2nd try if the ref called a penalty? A few seconds cost us 2 games at home.

[Michael82]

Wow, that just makes it even worse. How the **** could they not start the clock for the damn onsides kick? WTF!!! :mad:

[HHURRICANE]

Goal with player in the crease, penalty that was never called on the Norwood kick, forward pass on the lateral, blah, blah, blah....

[Mitchy moo]

Wow, that just makes it even worse. How the **** could they not start the clock for the damn onsides kick? WTF!!! :mad:

When I watched the Video again, it just killed me. Many real smart posters on here and when I did some research on it, it's obvious.

Do you think that ESPN will want to rehash it too much?? F-no. It's Romo for president now, the 5-0 star. Even though his QB rating sucked for the game.

[Mitchy moo]

Goal with player in the crease, penalty that was never called on the Norwood kick, forward pass on the lateral, blah, blah, blah....

All true, it almost seems like god has endeared us to a fate of hell on earth. From a sporting standpoint of course.

[TacklingDummy]

Wow, that just makes it even worse. How the **** could they not start the clock for the damn onsides kick? WTF!!! :mad:

It looks like 4 maybe 5 seconds to me.

I thought Buffalo was suppose to have home field advantage? The guy running the clock must have been from Dallas.

[chernobylwraiths]

After watching this the Refs probably screwed us out of 1 second.
On the onside kick, 3 seconds should have run off, not 2.
The Owens drop, the ball hit the turf at the 13 second mark on the clock, hence why they reset it to 13 seconds.
Either way, the last pass play to the sidelines the clock stopped at 2 and arguably could have been stopped at 3. The refs didn't screw this part of the ending to change the outcome of the game.

What the refs did screw however was a blatant pass interference on Greer in the endzone, you're supposed to play the ball, not the WR. Greer never looks back for the ball and plays Owens all the way.

The sad part is, if that is called correctly, perhaps Dallas gets the 2 and we win in OT. Who knows?

There is always a little handfighting that goes on in a battle for the ball. Yes, Greer never looks back for the ball, but he barely touches Owens until the ball hits him in the hands. He never interfered with Owens ability to catch the ball until he tried to bring it in. At that point, he ripped it out. This IMO was a good non call.

[chernobylwraiths]

ESPN just reported as I had noted that the game clock never started on the onside kicks. The clock if it started would have been 15-16 seconds not 18 as they reset it. I would even question the Owens trap and where the clock was set. 2-3 seconds would have resulted in a big difference in routes and calls.
___________________________________________________________________________
Click on 4:53 of the video and you will see the officials had the clock reset to show 18 seconds before Dallas ran the first play after the onside. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_1132354-->

Scan 3:40 into the video, clock never ran:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4187534648496207960&q=mnf+dallas&total=52&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2


http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=136619


Yeah, I kind of said a similar thing yesterday.

[DraftBoy]

I watched video I dont see us getting screwed, the only screwing that happened was us screwing ourselves

[Mitchy moo]

I watched video I dont see us getting screwed, the only screwing that happened was us screwing ourselves

Go to the 4:06 mark and see when TO first touched this ball, it was with :13 seconds left. Did he have to hit the ground to lose the ball, so do you give him the clock time when when he first touched the ball or when he loses it after going down and struggling?? He had the ball, he hits the ground and loses control and then he struggles. That did not all happen in the same second he originally touched the ball. It was imcomplete after losing it to the ground, sad but true.

According to Mike Pereira it was also the toughest call the had since video was reintroduced. They had to make sure that the cowboys could get up to the line in time to even spike the ball in case it was complete instead. They actually said they didn't want to give the cowboys another play and he was right, they wanted to give them 2 more plays.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80326e7d

[paladin warrior]

ESPN just reported as I had noted that the game clock never started on the onside kicks. The clock if it started would have been 15-16 seconds not 18 as they reset it. I would even question the Owens trap and where the clock was set. 2-3 seconds would have resulted in a big difference in routes and calls.
___________________________________________________________________________
Click on 4:53 of the video and you will see the officials had the clock reset to show 18 seconds before Dallas ran the first play after the onside. touchdown. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_1132354-->

Scan 3:40 into the video, clock never ran: Yeah U are total right. I see the clock was 20 sec. And dallas trying to throw the ball for 2 points.And did not ran the clock..It still same 20 sec. Before touchdown..Who is the heck chagre of the clock tinking.. Did u see the clock was 20 sec?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4187534648496207960&q=mnf+dallas&total=52&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

[Mr. Pink]

There is always a little handfighting that goes on in a battle for the ball. Yes, Greer never looks back for the ball, but he barely touches Owens until the ball hits him in the hands. He never interfered with Owens ability to catch the ball until he tried to bring it in. At that point, he ripped it out. This IMO was a good non call.

Face guarding is pass interference by definition of the rule. Greer obviously never plays the ball....and that is called more times than not. After seeing how blatant it was that he never played the ball and considering it was TO, I'm shocked it wasn't called on the field.

[Michael82]

I watched video I dont see us getting screwed, the only screwing that happened was us screwing ourselves
oh come on....how convenient that they "forget" to start the playclock for the onside kick? And how the hell is that only 2 seconds from when the Cowboys player first touched the ball, to that little scrum? Bull****! And we were coming down to the final precious seconds. If they took off 5 seconds instead of 2, the Cowboys never would have had time to spike the ball in time for the field goal. :::

[Crisis]

OK, I'll be the first one to admit that the refs have screwed us for so long.

But Monday Night was our fault, not the officials. Anyone saying otherwise is grasping for straws for another excuse.

[LtFinFan66]

ESPN just reported as I had noted that the game clock never started on the onside kicks. The clock if it started would have been 15-16 seconds not 18 as they reset it. I would even question the Owens trap and where the clock was set. 2-3 seconds would have resulted in a big difference in routes and calls.
___________________________________________________________________________
Click on 4:53 of the video and you will see the officials had the clock reset to show 18 seconds before Dallas ran the first play after the onside. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_1132354-->

Scan 3:40 into the video, clock never ran:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4187534648496207960&q=mnf+dallas&total=52&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2ESPN JUST reported this?? I told my son right when it happened that the clock never started. ESPN is right on top of things

[jamze132]

So it goes down along with the other notable chokes in Buffalo sports history. Hell I even saw a Bison's game at War Memorial when I was a kid where they blew a 9th inning lead.

I swear every team I cheer for no matter what sport or level of play, they lose. GO PATRIOTS!

[Turf]

I don't know if everyone caught on yet, but Jauron doesn't really have a grip for what's going on "on" the field as far as time, field position, or much of anything else for that matter. He knows what down it is but not much else. Most fans have a better grip of the game during the game than he does.

[DraftBoy]

oh come on....how convenient that they "forget" to start the playclock for the onside kick? And how the hell is that only 2 seconds from when the Cowboys player first touched the ball, to that little scrum? Bull****! And we were coming down to the final precious seconds. If they took off 5 seconds instead of 2, the Cowboys never would have had time to spike the ball in time for the field goal. :::

clock starts when the ball is touched and as soon as the scrum begins the clock is supposed to be stopped, two seconds is not out of the realm of possibility at all. Its not like the ball kicked off the Dallas guy and went 15 yards down the field it went maybe 5 yards.

[Mitchy moo]

clock starts when the ball is touched and as soon as the scrum begins the clock is supposed to be stopped, two seconds is not out of the realm of possibility at all. Its not like the ball kicked off the Dallas guy and went 15 yards down the field it went maybe 5 yards.

When does the struggling for the ball end?? In a normal course of a game, the whistle blows after the ball is clearly in one players hand or the other. Why would that rule or action change based on where the clock is?? Is there some unwritten rule we have to hurry things along to make it more interesting?? There has to be some clarity as to when to time these things out, if not BS like this is going to continue to happen.

[Wys Guy]

ESPN just reported as I had noted that the game clock never started on the onside kicks. The clock if it started would have been 15-16 seconds not 18 as they reset it. I would even question the Owens trap and where the clock was set. 2-3 seconds would have resulted in a big difference in routes and calls.
___________________________________________________________________________
Click on 4:53 of the video and you will see the officials had the clock reset to show 18 seconds before Dallas ran the first play after the onside. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_1132354-->

Scan 3:40 into the video, clock never ran:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4187534648496207960&q=mnf+dallas&total=52&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

The officials were bad on mulitple counts and not always favoring the Cowboys.

Owens was pushed out, clearly. The Cowboys would have had a FG at least, perhaps even a TD there making the rest entirely moot.

TO was interfered with on that 2 pt. conversion. No question that our DB made contact prior to the catch.

There was a helmet to helmet on Lynch uncalled.

We ran into their K it looked like.

Plus the clock debacle against us.

The refs sucked hind teat in this game to the tune of about 8 horrible calls. Fortunately it was all on national TV. The officials need to be deunionized and replaced as we've all known for years.

But let's face it, the sun was shining so far up our arse in this game that our colon lining has sunburn today and we still couldn't win.

Six TOs by Dallas and they still get 385 yards of net offense and nearly double us up. Our D didn't play well. There wasn't a second of garbage time either for the Boys.

We probably logged half of the grand total of D/STs points that we'll get for the year in this game alone and yet still, our O could only put up 3 points and failed to move the ball well in all but one single drive.

Let's not stoop to blaming things on the officials. Yes, the officating was poor, but what else is new first of all. Second of all, if they had called a good game to begin with the final seconds thing would all have been moot as Dallas would have led in this game much earlier and simply run the clock out anyway.

[Beantown_Pat]

GMAFB! The Cowboys were HANDING you the game on a silver FREAKIN platter!!!! The officals did not screw you...your own team did.

[mchurchfie]

GMAFB! The Cowboys were HANDING you the game on a silver FREAKIN platter!!!! The officals did not screw you...your own team did.
This Sunday I have the feeling they'll be handing the Patsies their ass on a silver platter.;)

[justasportsfan]

It looks like 4 maybe 5 seconds to me.

I thought Buffalo was suppose to have home field advantage? The guy running the clock must have been from Dallas.


or the 5 yards instead of 15 for the facemask or non-horse collar call or non late hit call on Lynch . But inspite of that , a choke is a choke. we didn't close therefore we lost.

[chernobylwraiths]

Face guarding is pass interference by definition of the rule. Greer obviously never plays the ball....and that is called more times than not. After seeing how blatant it was that he never played the ball and considering it was TO, I'm shocked it wasn't called on the field.

At the point when the ball was within TO's reach, Greer's hands were nowhere near his facemask I believe. It was not blatent pass interference. If they call that, it is a ticky tack call.

[chernobylwraiths]

clock starts when the ball is touched and as soon as the scrum begins the clock is supposed to be stopped, two seconds is not out of the realm of possibility at all. Its not like the ball kicked off the Dallas guy and went 15 yards down the field it went maybe 5 yards.

Ball recovered at our 47. So it went 13 yards. Try again.

[Michael82]

Ball recovered at our 47. So it went 13 yards. Try again.
Exactly! :hi5:

Someone should time it. I'm betting that from the time it touched that one guy's hand until it was recoved, that was about 6-7 seconds. If that's the case...that's 4 or 5 more than the amount of time they took off the clock. I know it's not the reason they lost the game, but go ahead....take 4 seconds off the time when they ran the first play and u will see that the Cowboys would have never had a chance to kick the field goal from the 35 yard line. :ill:

[Mr. Pink]

Mikey, I actually did time it...it was 3 to 4 seconds from the time Hurd touched it, to the time it was recovered. There was no scrum for the ball really as the Dallas player fell on it himself before any bills player joined in. The clock would be stopped from the time he fell on it, basically. 3 to 4 seconds being basically how fast the timekeeper could have stopped the clock. Seeing the timekeeper inexplicably never ran the clock as the play ran, which is BS, I agree. The refs are at discretion of how long it took as well as the guy upstairs. He viewed the play to see if it wasn't illegally touched and then the approximate time it took for the recovery.

[Mitchy moo]

Mikey, I actually did time it...it was 3 to 4 seconds from the time Hurd touched it, to the time it was recovered. There was no scrum for the ball really as the Dallas player fell on it himself before any bills player joined in. The clock would be stopped from the time he fell on it, basically. 3 to 4 seconds being basically how fast the timekeeper could have stopped the clock. Seeing the timekeeper inexplicably never ran the clock as the play ran, which is BS, I agree. The refs are at discretion of how long it took as well as the guy upstairs. He viewed the play to see if it wasn't illegally touched and then the approximate time it took for the recovery.

So in a nutshell, we got screwed.

[chernobylwraiths]

Mikey, I actually did time it...it was 3 to 4 seconds from the time Hurd touched it, to the time it was recovered. There was no scrum for the ball really as the Dallas player fell on it himself before any bills player joined in. The clock would be stopped from the time he fell on it, basically. 3 to 4 seconds being basically how fast the timekeeper could have stopped the clock. Seeing the timekeeper inexplicably never ran the clock as the play ran, which is BS, I agree. The refs are at discretion of how long it took as well as the guy upstairs. He viewed the play to see if it wasn't illegally touched and then the approximate time it took for the recovery.

That is right. Since the the clock operator screwed up and didn't start the clock, the officials had to GUESS how many seconds would run off. Obviously, if the clock operator had run off 5 or 6 seconds on the play, the refs probably wouldn't have done anything about it. Remember too that the clock operator is supposed to run the clock until the officials "officially" call for the time to be stopped. This goes for the Owens play as well. Since the officals SCREWED UP and there is no denying they screwed up and didn't get that play right, the official on the scene would have then called time out and maybe another second would have run off the clock, basic human reaction time. Since the refs screwed up and let him have the catch ("just give it to em ring a bell?") they almost HAD to stop the clock at the point where the ball hit the ground, not a second or two after when an official would have signaled incomplete. Not saying they did it on purpose, but the officals screw ups (and the clock operator's as well) gave them probably 2 to 5 seconds extra. How many seconds were left when their kicker went for the kick? That kick didn't look like it would go an extra five yards.

[Mitchy moo]

That is right. Since the the clock operator screwed up and didn't start the clock, the officials had to GUESS how many seconds would run off. Obviously, if the clock operator had run off 5 or 6 seconds on the play, the refs probably wouldn't have done anything about it. Remember too that the clock operator is supposed to run the clock until the officials "officially" call for the time to be stopped. This goes for the Owens play as well. Since the officals SCREWED UP and there is no denying they screwed up and didn't get that play right, the official on the scene would have then called time out and maybe another second would have run off the clock, basic human reaction time. Since the refs screwed up and let him have the catch ("just give it to em ring a bell?") they almost HAD to stop the clock at the point where the ball hit the ground, not a second or two after when an official would have signaled incomplete. Not saying they did it on purpose, but the officals screw ups (and the clock operator's as well) gave them probably 2 to 5 seconds extra. How many seconds were left when their kicker went for the kick? That kick didn't look like it would go an extra five yards.

We would of won that game if the clock was done right, it wasn't.

[paladin warrior]

Every thing are mistake from REF.. BAD Call.and Did not look at the clock did not ran.. Bills should Sue the REF.. If NFL Look at it and review what happen all of it..And If NFL found out.. And fire the REF or pay big fine.. NFL will change that Bills won.. 24-22.. It that will work?..

[jamze132]

I think in all sports where the time beging kept can play a crucial role in the outcome of a game needs to be controlled by the refs and them alone. In today's world, is it impossible to have a handheld device that is linked to the scoreboard and operated by the referee? I know Hockey is toying with a whistle that does this exact same thing.

I have always thought that the person controlling the clock in a NFL game is a pure idiot. I don't know how many times I have seen a player run out of bounds and the clock keeps ticking. And I understand that he doesn't stop the clock until the official says so which creates an extra second a lot of the time.

[BillsFever21]

The refs didn't lose this game for us. Let it go. We hear this every single time Buffalo chokes. Quit making excuses for us. We lost because our offense could only score 3 points and Dick Jauron coached scard(like he always does) in the 4th quarter on defense.