Trent "checkdown" Edwards

[xXSpIkes5IXx]

Does anyone else notice that Trent throws to his checkdown recievers a TON? Its been my prevailing analysis of him ever since training camp.

Often times, taking whats given to you, and checking down is a saavy move, you see the best QB's check down frequently. However, Edwards has not impressed me in these 2 starts with his ability to make tough throws and plays down the field. He stays very composed in the pocket, and his short to midrange game is excellent, however based on his very limited playing time, he seems to lack the "big play" ability that is so crucial in the NFL.

That being said, i think thats something that may come with time, if we decide to give Trent the ball over JP. However JP seems to have that big play potential which makes it even more maddening when you seem make stupid mistakes out there, because i think everyone on this board will agree he has big play potential and all the physical tools to be a great quarterback in this league, however will he ever get it upstairs?

I hope so, and soon.

[Night Train]

I like the kid and hope more playing time will rid him of the usual bad habits that inexperience shows.

Checkdown passes and staring down the receivers is common with youth. The one wild card is the Coaching he receives. They have to put him into the proper position to succeed by giving him a good gameplan.

[Philagape]

Does anyone else notice that Trent throws to his checkdown recievers a TON?

No, no one else here has mentioned it at all. :crazy:

[HHURRICANE]

After his second start in the league I have noticed that he is.....a rookie. Who's playing extremely well!!!!

[Ickybaluky]

It's called being patient and not forcing the ball downfield into coverage or holding it too long and taking the sack.

The funny thing is you used to hear this same thing all the time back in 2001 when people were arguing Brady-vs-Bledsoe.

[TacklingDummy]

Has anyone noticed that neither Trent or Losman have completed a pass over 20 yards this year?

[Kerr]

Has anyone noticed that neither Trent or Losman have completed a pass over 20 yards this year?

que? According to this he has.

http://www.nfl.com/players/trentedwards/careerstats?id=EDW720778

[TacklingDummy]

que? According to this he has.

http://www.nfl.com/players/trentedwards/careerstats?id=EDW720778


With the ball being in the air 20 yards he hasn't. That 27 completion was on a ball thrown 10-20 yards and the receiver running the extra 7+yards.

[Wys Guy]

Has anyone noticed that neither Trent or Losman have completed a pass over 20 yards this year?

I know that Edwards completed only one pass whereby the receiver actually caught the ball beyond 10 yards from the line of scrimmage in the last game. That was to Parrish for 14 I believe, at the point of the catch.

The fact that Edwards is getting sacked at a rate of 3 times per games with such quick passes says little for our OL.

On the flip side, that's what Losman seems to struggle with. If you could merge Losman and Edwards, right now assuming that Edwards will improve in the deep(er) game, you'd have one hell of a QB just like sticking Flutie's head on Johnson's body would have given us one too.

The question is, is Edwards lack of going downfield his own choosing? Or are the coaches merely allowing him to get his feet wet first before asking too much?

Discuss. LOL

[Kerr]

With the ball being in the air 20 yards he hasn't. That 27 completion was on a ball thrown 10-20 yards and the receiver running the extra 7+yards.


Now you're just nitpicking.

[Kerr]

Edwards can complete a deeper pass if he wanted to. The fact is the coaches likely want him to play more conservative, plus they limit his opportunities for deep throw with quick step drops. Once they allow it, you'd see more deep passes.

[justasportsfan]

I know that Edwards completed only one pass whereby the receiver actually caught the ball beyond 10 yards from the line of scrimmage in the last game. That was to Parrish for 14 I believe, at the point of the catch.

The fact that Edwards is getting sacked at a rate of 3 times per games with such quick passes says little for our OL.

On the flip side, that's what Losman seems to struggle with. If you could merge Losman and Edwards, right now assuming that Edwards will improve in the deep(er) game, you'd have one hell of a QB just like sticking Flutie's head on Johnson's body would have given us one too.

The question is, is Edwards lack of going downfield his own choosing? Or are the coaches merely allowing him to get his feet wet first before asking too much?

Discuss. LOL
according to Edwards' admission and Fairchild, the call for deep balls were called but Edwards decided to go short. Not saying they were wrong decisions (except fot the INT obviously) but he's obviously not confident with taking chances deep. That'll change once he gets more comfortable with his wrs. He only needs to connect once to get over the hump.

[TacklingDummy]

Now you're just nitpicking.

Not really.

In last years Jets game Parrish took a 5 yard pass from Losman and turned it into a 51 yard Touchdown.

(14:14) (Shotgun) J.Losman pass short middle to R.Parrish for 51 yards, TOUCHDOWN [V.Hobson]. Caught at NYJ 41

In last years Houston game Evans took 2 passes that went around 30 yards in the air for 83 yard touchdowns.

[Wys Guy]

according to Edwards' admission and Fairchild, the call for deep balls were called but Edwards decided to go short. Not saying they were wrong decisions (except fot the INT obviously) but he's obviously not confident with taking chances deep. That'll change once he gets more comfortable with his wrs. He only needs to connect once to get over the hump.

Thud! That's the sound of me hitting the floor after reading a good football post from you just!!

I agree in fact. Nothing wrong with that however either. It's not as if we're competing for the playoffs this year. I'll stop having said that. ;)

We'll see what happens with that moving forward. But suffice it to say that while the short game is what butters the bread of a QBs success, QBs do need to at least be able to heave one accurately for 50 yards at least on the fly in order to draw heat off of the short game and get the D to backoff when necessary.

So we'll give Edwards another handful of games before expecting more. My guess is that the coaches will stick Losman in there for the Ravens game knowing that this O isn't going to do anything against the Ravens, then in typical Bills' apples-to-oranges fashion start Edwards against the Jets to show how much better he is and then have their guy starting the rest of the way.

Not saying that would be a bad decision anyway, as frankly, how long are we supposed to give Losman to master what should be automatic, namely a short high-percentage passing game which is low-percentage for him. The logic would be typical Bills however.

I'm curious to see how Edwards develops.

[Philagape]

If I had the Bills' receivers, I wouldn't be confident throwing downfield either.

[Wys Guy]

If I had the Bills' receivers, I wouldn't be confident throwing downfield either.

Come on, Evans did more last year with poorly thrown deep Losman balls than any other WR in the history of the game. Only one or two of those deep balls for TDs was accurate. The rest Evans had to adjust to.

[Wraith]

Not saying that would be a bad decision anyway, as frankly, how long are we supposed to give Losman to master what should be automatic, namely a short high-percentage passing game which is low-percentage for him. The logic would be typical Bills however.

Completing 74% of his short passes, third highest in the league amongst starting quarterbacks last season, is LOW percentage to you? 76% this year? Just how often would he have to complete the short pass for people to realize he's GOOD AT IT.

[mybills]

Not really.

In last years Jets game Parrish took a 5 yard pass from Losman and turned it into a 51 yard Touchdown.

(14:14) (Shotgun) J.Losman pass short middle to R.Parrish for 51 yards, TOUCHDOWN [V.Hobson]. Caught at NYJ 41

In last years Houston game Evans took 2 passes that went around 30 yards in the air for 83 yard touchdowns.

This is why stats are so deceiving. A QB can have perfect passes 4 times for 25 yds each and if the wr drops 2 of them, the QB gets 50 yds. A RB can run 50 yds but if his team mate draws a penalty that comes back, he gets zero. Like I said, stats are like a map..they can get you to the vicinity, but it doesn't give you the house/building number.

As for TD's...I think a QB should only have the ones he throws into the endzone. 9 times out of 10, the WR's or RB's are doing most of the work. It's a team TD for those, not a QB TD.
JMO.

[Philagape]

Come on, Evans did more last year with poorly thrown deep Losman balls than any other WR in the history of the game. Only one or two of those deep balls for TDs was accurate. The rest Evans had to adjust to.

The secret's out, so to speak. Defenses aren't letting Evans do that now.

[Wraith]

The secret's out, so to speak. Defenses aren't letting Evans do that now.

Two games is enough to prove that?

[Philagape]

Two games is enough to prove that?

Evans has played five.

[Wraith]

Evans has played five.

With Trent Edwards at QB for three of them.

[Philagape]

With Trent Edwards at QB for three of them.

So? Anyone who's done their homework knows that Edwards is no noodle arm. He's choosing not to go deep. He's regularly having to pick his second/third option.

[Wraith]

So? Anyone who's done their homework knows that Edwards is no noodle arm. He's choosing not to go deep. He's regularly having to pick his second/third option.

I didn't say he had a noodle arm. He's just totally, completely unwilling to throw the ball downfield. Why would a defense bother to "take that away" when Edwards won't throw it?

[TacklingDummy]

. Why would a defense bother to "take that away" when Edwards won't throw it?

He is 0-3 with 2 INTS with balls thrown over 20 yards in the air. In a way he has completed 2-3 passes with balls thrown over 20 yards. They are just completed to the wrong team.

[Kerr]

Not really.

In last years Jets game Parrish took a 5 yard pass from Losman and turned it into a 51 yard Touchdown.

(14:14) (Shotgun) J.Losman pass short middle to R.Parrish for 51 yards, TOUCHDOWN [V.Hobson]. Caught at NYJ 41

In last years Houston game Evans took 2 passes that went around 30 yards in the air for 83 yard touchdowns.



Who really cares? It sounds like you really just care about stats and not wins.

[Philagape]

I didn't say he had a noodle arm. He's just totally, completely unwilling to throw the ball downfield. Why would a defense bother to "take that away" when Edwards won't throw it?

It's the other way around ... he's not throwing it because they've taken it away. They take it away because of Evans, no matter who the QB is.

[justasportsfan]

Who really cares? It sounds like you really just care about stats and not wins.
what TD forgot to highlight is that THEY WENT FOR TOUCHDOWNS.

[Wraith]

It's the other way around ... he's not throwing it because they've taken it away. They take it away because of Evans, no matter who the QB is.

You can argue that until you're blue in the face but it won't do you a bit of good because there is no way to prove that without watching game film. I can't argue against it for the same reason. However, I at least have history on my side. The Bills threw deep often during the second half of the season last year and it worked, even against great defenses like Baltimore, even after the Bills run game had proved ineffective, and even after the Bills had burned many other teams the same way leading up to that game.

If defenses truly were "taking it away" wouldn't Marshawn Lynch be averaging more than 3.7 yards/carry. The Jets came right and said after our game that they sold out against the run. Evans wasn't single covered once during a game in which the opposing defense sold out to stop the run that never came?

[Wys Guy]

The secret's out, so to speak. Defenses aren't letting Evans do that now.

Yeah, especially when the ball never goes deep.

Who's not "letting him do that now?"

[Saratoga Slim]

Thud! That's the sound of me hitting the floor after reading a good football post from you just!!

I agree in fact. Nothing wrong with that however either. It's not as if we're competing for the playoffs this year. I'll stop having said that. ;)

We'll see what happens with that moving forward. But suffice it to say that while the short game is what butters the bread of a QBs success, QBs do need to at least be able to heave one accurately for 50 yards at least on the fly in order to draw heat off of the short game and get the D to backoff when necessary.

So we'll give Edwards another handful of games before expecting more. My guess is that the coaches will stick Losman in there for the Ravens game knowing that this O isn't going to do anything against the Ravens, then in typical Bills' apples-to-oranges fashion start Edwards against the Jets to show how much better he is and then have their guy starting the rest of the way.

Not saying that would be a bad decision anyway, as frankly, how long are we supposed to give Losman to master what should be automatic, namely a short high-percentage passing game which is low-percentage for him. The logic would be typical Bills however.

I'm curious to see how Edwards develops.

Good post, I agree with most of the above. A good QB HAS to to be able to keep the defense honest by stretching the field - as any Jets fan will tell you right now re Pennington. But that said, it's way too early to chastise Edwards for not stretching the field and working within his obvious comfort zone. I'm frankly happy to see the short completions, as at least we see some longer drives that way.

[Saratoga Slim]

I didn't say he had a noodle arm. He's just totally, completely unwilling to throw the ball downfield. Why would a defense bother to "take that away" when Edwards won't throw it?

"Totally, completely unwilling to throw the ball downfield?" Are you serious? After two and a half games as a rookie QB?

Kelly Holcomb, now THERE's a guy who's completely unwilling to throw the ball down the field.

[mybills]

Didn't Tony Romo throw short and long in his first start?

[Wraith]

"Totally, completely unwilling to throw the ball downfield?" Are you serious? After two and a half games as a rookie QB?


That wasn't a prediction about Edwards' future abilitiy. It was a reflection about our past two and a half games with a rookie QB and how defenses would plan to defense that said rookie QB. Having watched the last two and a half games I am very comfortable saying that Edwards, a rookie QB, was unwilling to throw the ball down field in those games.

[Saratoga Slim]

That wasn't a prediction about Edwards' future abilitiy. It was a reflection about our past two and a half games with a rookie QB and how defenses would plan to defense that said rookie QB. Having watched the last two and a half games I am very comfortable saying that Edwards, a rookie QB, was unwilling to throw the ball down field in those games.

Gotcha. That's fair.

[mybills]

That wasn't a prediction about Edwards' future abilitiy. It was a reflection about our past two and a half games with a rookie QB and how defenses would plan to defense that said rookie QB. Having watched the last two and a half games I am very comfortable saying that Edwards, a rookie QB, was unwilling to throw the ball down field in those games.
Didn't Edwards admit that?

[Wys Guy]

Good post, I agree with most of the above. A good QB HAS to to be able to keep the defense honest by stretching the field - as any Jets fan will tell you right now re Pennington. But that said, it's way too early to chastise Edwards for not stretching the field and working within his obvious comfort zone. I'm frankly happy to see the short completions, as at least we see some longer drives that way.

Yeah, but completions are great, as long as they result in 3rd-down conversions when necessary and 1st-downs generally speaking.

We had five drives end on 3rd-down completions by Edwards vs. the Cowboys, yet not long enough for 1st-downs. So what if he's "efficient" if he doesn't get the job done. He had another two drives ended by a INT on 3rd down and by an incompletion. That's 7 drives ended for one reason or another on Edwards passes.

People are getting far to giddy over mere completion percentage.

Where are the TDs, 3rd-down conversions, and 1st-downs?

Granted, he gets some time, but that definitely has to be ironed out.

Yeah, definitely. (said with a Rain Man accent)

[Wys Guy]

Didn't Tony Romo throw short and long in his first start?

IDK. Take a look at the Jets gamebook and see where he threw. It will tell you exactly where the player caught the pass usually.

[xXSpIkes5IXx]

Also a reason for Trent's success is that teams have very little tape on him as well, so they dont have a ton to work with when gameplanning him.

[Philagape]

You can argue that until you're blue in the face but it won't do you a bit of good because there is no way to prove that without watching game film. I can't argue against it for the same reason. However, I at least have history on my side. The Bills threw deep often during the second half of the season last year and it worked, even against great defenses like Baltimore, even after the Bills run game had proved ineffective, and even after the Bills had burned many other teams the same way leading up to that game.

If defenses truly were "taking it away" wouldn't Marshawn Lynch be averaging more than 3.7 yards/carry. The Jets came right and said after our game that they sold out against the run. Evans wasn't single covered once during a game in which the opposing defense sold out to stop the run that never came?

If they double up Evans and single cover the other WR and TE, that leaves seven to stop the run (eight if the TEs block).

All I have to support my position is the results. Evans has done nothing. Don't you think he's the first option on a vast majority of pass plays? How many times have both QBs dropped back, gotten the time, waited, and checked off? They're going through their progressions, and I find it hard to believe they aren't looking for Evans. But he's not getting open. Whatever they did last year, it's not working this year.

[raphael120]

It's just pretty bad that no one can get open when Evans is supposively getting double teamed. But then again, maybe the guys that are open ARE the TE's and the HBs...I mean, even Edwards in the Jets game was throwing WRs the ball when they weren't exactly open. But I agree, I dont even see us taking SHOTS downfield let along completing the big passes. We're not even doing it.

[Philagape]

And the problem is not the big bombs. We have tried bombs this year; off the top of my head I remember the ones against Denver and the Jets. Most of the big plays last year were the bombs. What we need is some 20-yarders on 3rd and 15. The medium-range passes. That's what this is about.

[Wally The Barber]

Does anyone else notice that Trent throws to his checkdown recievers a TON? Its been my prevailing analysis of him ever since training camp.

Often times, taking whats given to you, and checking down is a saavy move, you see the best QB's check down frequently. However, Edwards has not impressed me in these 2 starts with his ability to make tough throws and plays down the field. He stays very composed in the pocket, and his short to midrange game is excellent, however based on his very limited playing time, he seems to lack the "big play" ability that is so crucial in the NFL.

That being said, i think thats something that may come with time, if we decide to give Trent the ball over JP. However JP seems to have that big play potential which makes it even more maddening when you seem make stupid mistakes out there, because i think everyone on this board will agree he has big play potential and all the physical tools to be a great quarterback in this league, however will he ever get it upstairs?

I hope so, and soon.

When Trent attempts the long passes and they fall short, I will believe he can not throw them!

[Johnny Bugmenot]

When Trent attempts the long passes and they fall short, I will believe he can not throw them!

When Trent attempts the long passes and GETS SACKED EVERY TIME, there's a problem, most likely he's not dropping back enough.

[Philagape]

When Trent attempts the long passes and GETS SACKED EVERY TIME, there's a problem, most likely he's not dropping back enough.

That happens to both QBs, and the problem is the receivers aren't getting open, That's why they're called coverage sacks.

[justasportsfan]

That happens to both QBs, and the problem is the receivers aren't getting open, That's why they're called coverage sacks.
Trent went to Rayals when a wr was open deep. The sky cam showed our wr jumping up and down but TE went with Royals instead. It did gain a 1st down but our wr was 30-40 deep by himself.

Most wr aren't open when you first throw the ball deep. That's when Evans turns on the jets and makes a play. He almost did against Denver and Pitts but he dropped them. Evans may have failed but it was early in the season just like last year. Eventually he and JP will hook up again but you're not gonna hook up if you don't take a chance like TE. That's what Evans pretty much said, TAKE A CHANCE and now TE admits he shou;d've. What's he got to lose, his stats? He's a rookie, we'll forgive him but trust your wr's. If Flutie and JP can do it, TE should.

[evol4276]

arent checkdowns n tightends a rookie qb's favorite til he gets a full grasp of things?

[jamze132]

I like the kid and hope more playing time will rid him of the usual bad habits that inexperience shows.

Checkdown passes and staring down the receivers is common with youth. The one wild card is the Coaching he receives. They have to put him into the proper position to succeed by giving him a good gameplan.
Which is the exact reason any QB under the tutelage of Jauron and Fairchild is going to suck ass.

[Philagape]

Trent went to Rayals when a wr was open deep. The sky cam showed our wr jumping up and down but TE went with Royals instead. It did gain a 1st down but our wr was 30-40 deep by himself.

I was responding to a post about sacks.

[Nighthawk]

Does anyone else notice that Trent throws to his checkdown recievers a TON? Its been my prevailing analysis of him ever since training camp.

Often times, taking whats given to you, and checking down is a saavy move, you see the best QB's check down frequently. However, Edwards has not impressed me in these 2 starts with his ability to make tough throws and plays down the field. He stays very composed in the pocket, and his short to midrange game is excellent, however based on his very limited playing time, he seems to lack the "big play" ability that is so crucial in the NFL.

That being said, i think thats something that may come with time, if we decide to give Trent the ball over JP. However JP seems to have that big play potential which makes it even more maddening when you seem make stupid mistakes out there, because i think everyone on this board will agree he has big play potential and all the physical tools to be a great quarterback in this league, however will he ever get it upstairs?

I hope so, and soon.

Yeah, I much rather have a guy sit back there, see his first read isn't open and then take a sack. That's great football! [sarcasm]

[SyraBillsLican]

XxSpikes51xX is completely correct in every facet that a person can be right.

all others pale in comparison to this Upstate God and may he have success on Long Island

[SABURZFAN]

it's a useless stat but Edwards has a better Passer Rating than Lossman. :snicker:

[churchinski]

Does anyone else notice that Trent throws to his checkdown recievers a TON? Its been my prevailing analysis of him ever since training camp.

Often times, taking whats given to you, and checking down is a saavy move, you see the best QB's check down frequently. However, Edwards has not impressed me in these 2 starts with his ability to make tough throws and plays down the field. He stays very composed in the pocket, and his short to midrange game is excellent, however based on his very limited playing time, he seems to lack the "big play" ability that is so crucial in the NFL.

That being said, i think thats something that may come with time, if we decide to give Trent the ball over JP. However JP seems to have that big play potential which makes it even more maddening when you seem make stupid mistakes out there, because i think everyone on this board will agree he has big play potential and all the physical tools to be a great quarterback in this league, however will he ever get it upstairs?

I hope so, and soon. any QB that take snaps in NFL games has big play ability

I think people completely miss that point

And any QB that starts as many games as losman has and takes as many shots down the field as he has will make some big plays

but he is irratic and I have seen more than enough of him

I cannot get a grip on the number of people who watch this game for years and still cannot distinguish a good QB from a bust