Home Pre-Season Game in Toronto 2008, Home Regular Season Game in 2009

[Night Train]

Bills requesting this, according to the Thursday morning Buffalo News. Not many details.

This ought to get the Chicken Littles screaming.

Bills citing regionalism.

[LtFinFan66]

:movie:

[DMBcrew36]

:couch:

[Don't Panic]

Do we want a team long-term or not? Even with a WNY born Commish, this might be the best we can get.

[Don't Panic]

The Buffalo Bills hope to play a regular- season game in Toronto next year.
In a statement obtained by The Journal, the Bills say they are looking to expand their regional marketing efforts by moving one of their eight home games north of the border.
"Beginning in 2008, the team plans to increase its focus on the northern sector of its market," the statement said. "The team hopes to capitalize on the increasing interest of fans in the Canadian market by playing a regular-season game in Toronto."

[Mitchy moo]

Momma I'm coming home........

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/186580.html

This sucks......

[Dr. Lecter]

Meh.

All teams are going to be playing internationally at some point. The Bills best option to do so is to do it in Toronto.

[THATHURMANATOR]

See I have no problem with this at all if it is designed to help keep the team here long term. When all or half of our games are in Toronto is when I will have a problem.

[OpIv37]

I see this as backfiring- all it's going to do is increase Toronto's desire to have an NFL franchise, which is the worst possible thing for the Bills (especially since there's a good chance that franchise could BE the Bills).

[mybills]

"hopes to capitalize on the increasing interest of fans in the Canadian market"

If they're so interested, they should come to the team. Not the other way around. :cynic:

[THATHURMANATOR]

What can we do though?. The only thing that will suck is we will have only 7 home games in 2009. I can't imagine the Toronto fans really giving 12th man support.

[clumping platelets]

I agree with mybills.................Toronto Bills fans can drive down to Orchard Park.......maybe HBF can give them a lift. They are so willing to drive down to HSBC Arena to see the Leafs play, why can't they commit to driving down here to see the BUFFALO BILLS if they are such "die-hard" Bills fans :rolleyes:

This is just another attempt by the Bills (i.e. Ralph and the NFL) to scare local fans into buying up all the premium seats and luxury suites

[Cleve]

For anyone not thinking by now that Ralph Wilson is a greedy cheapskate well into his dotage, this serves as more evidence.

If I was a season ticket holder - I'd be pissed. I'm assumng they'll drop the cost of season tickets by 13% (or whatever percentage a pre-season and regular seaon game works out to be from the schedule) to compensate. Uh-huh.

[djjimkelly]

I agree with mybills.................Toronto Bills fans can drive down to Orchard Park.......maybe HBF can give them a lift. They are so willing to drive down to HSBC Arena to see the Leafs play, why can't they commit to driving down here to see the BUFFALO BILLS if they are such "die-hard" Bills fans :rolleyes:

This is just another attempt by the Bills (i.e. Ralph and the NFL) to scare local fans into buying up all the premium seats and luxury suites


i cant cross border becuz of minor drug charge when i was younger or i would have best season tickets money could buy

[JD]

That makes sense, play a game in Toronto... see how many people would be interested in the team before moving it for good up north.

[Cleve]

That makes sense, play a game in Toronto... see how many people would be interested in the team before moving it for good up north.
That's it exactly. It's one small step towards removing the team from Buffalo. It's disgraceful, given the huge sums of NYS taxpayer (and fan) money that have been bequeathed to this team over the years.

[Coach Sal]

I have several thoughts on this.

First, fans have to realize that, like it or not, the league IS going to play regular season games in other countries. Every team will eventually be required to do so. Every team will lose a home game every other year under the plan. So, in that regard, Toronto is the best place to do it. Bills fans can still drive to the game and see their team.....and they will still have the "home crowd." As opposed to playing in Europe, where a very small % of WNYers will be able to go, and the stadium could even be filled with fans of the other team.

For example, the league will have one game in Europe in 2008, and right now the Bills are a very prime candidate to play in Germany against Kansas City (it will be a KC "home" game). That doesn't bother me at all, because playing at Arrowhead is very difficult, and this decreases the Chiefs "home field advantage."

Secondly, it looks like Toronto is serious about trying to land a team in their city eventually. If they did, and it weren't the Bills who moved there, it will still drastically effect the Bills fan base, as they will lose most of their Toronto/Canadian fans to the new team up north. So, by the Bills increasing their presence there NOW, they still have a chance to salvage many of those fans and keep them coming to WNY even after Toronto does land a team. In essence, it is a pre-emptive strike to keep their fans as long as possible.

I'm scared just like everyone else. I bleed BUFFALO BILLS red, white, and blue just like all of you. And I'd much rather play every regular season game, every single season, for the next thousand years in Buffalo......and it scares the crap out of me that that may not happen - and may not happen sooner rather than later.

But if the organization (Ralph) and the city/county just sit around and wait for Ralph to die and see what happens, by then it will be too late. Toronto will have their act together, they'll have the fan base in place, and Erie County will have nothing to counter with. And if that happens, we won't be talking anymore about "1 game in Toronto." We'll be talking about 7 in Toronto and 1 in Europe.

[mybills]

If this team moves to Canada, I'll quit watching them.

[OpIv37]

So, by the Bills increasing their presence there NOW, they still have a chance to salvage many of those fans and keep them coming to WNY even after Toronto does land a team. In essence, it is a pre-emptive strike to keep their fans as long as possible.



but it's going to backfire- it's going to make Toronto want their own team even more. And if Toronto ever gets an NFL team, it's the official end of the Buffalo Bills because a) either that team will BE the Bills or b) that team will pull enough support away from an already struggling franchise that it will no longer be viable.

I agree that in the short term, an international game in Toronto would be great and would be close to a "home" game for us. But in the long term, it's putting one foot in the grave. The Bills are a regional franchise and a team in Toronto would take a huge chunk out of that region.

[trapezeus]

i don't think it'll backfire. mostly because i don't believe that they really think this is helping buffalo's chances of getting more toronto fans to OP. They know that that this will drive up the cost of the bills overall value. You show the prospective buyers, "look, if you buy this team, the other 31 owners are willing to let you relocate to Toronto and look, they sell out the stadium, they know their football, and they sell about 2x the number of suites. Plus you'll have the canadian government to screw out of its money.

The NFL's greed is unbelievable. The bills are not a struggling company. Ralph, and the NFL love playing that card, but making $52MM after expenses is hardly struggling.

Why not market the team better. most of america is struggling as the underdog. hit that nerve and buffalo becomes every american's personal cause. They are so short sited, it hurts to think about.

[Coach Sal]

And if Toronto ever gets an NFL team, it's the official end of the Buffalo Bills because a) either that team will BE the Bills or b) that team will pull enough support away from an already struggling franchise that it will no longer be viable.

I agree, Op. But that's exactly my point.

I understand this is an optimistic view.....but the aim of the organization is to try and not let Toronto get its own team (for the very reason "B" you point out). One of the ways to do that is to increase the Bills presence in that region, keeping the fans, but especially the businesses that would be willing to support a Toronto franchise continuing to support the Bills in Buffalo for as long as possible.

[mybills]

This will be Buffalo with no Buffalo Bills.
http://www.brandonstone.com/photos_generated/ghost_town_truck_stop-750x600.jpg

[Bulldog]

This will be Buffalo with no Buffalo Bills.
http://www.brandonstone.com/photos_generated/ghost_town_truck_stop-750x600.jpg

Funny, I don't see Bass Pro in that picture.

[TacklingDummy]

See I have no problem with this at all if it is designed to help keep the team here long term. When all or half of our games are in Toronto is when I will have a problem.


Toronto newspapers have published stories speculating whether the city can be a viable NFL market, and most often mention the Bills as a prime candidate.

Great Idea. Let's play some "Home Games" at a place where they want to steal our team.

[raphael120]

Toronto newspapers have published stories speculating whether the city can be a viable NFL market, and most often mention the Bills as a prime candidate.

Great Idea. Let's play some "Home Games" at a place where they want to steal our team.

If Buffalo can keep the Sabres, with Toronto also having an NHL team, there is apparently enough people in Buffalo to support a sports team. I think Buffalo has the fans, and the money, it's just that I think people would be more willing to pay the league average ticket price for an average team. People will be more amicable to the paying below league averages for a below average team.

I think people wouuldve paid 100 bucks a ticket to see the 89-93 bills.

How do you think the Pittsburgh Pirates sell out so many games even though theyre so bad? Because you can get a seat for 8 bucks.

[Cleve]

Funny, I don't see Bass Pro in that picture.

Well, we could turn Rich Stadium into a giant aquarium - and people could pay to fish there with their Bass Pro Shops purchases. :fishy:

[PromoTheRobot]

The Bills are toast in Buffalo long-term. If we can tap into he Toronto market, even if it means playing half or more games there, is better than seeing them pack the vans for L.A. As long as they remain the Bills (Toronto Buffalo Bills?) and Buffalo season ticket holders have the option of keeping their tickets, I'm in favor of it.

Getting back to the name for a minute...You could keep the name Buffalo Bills, as in William Cody. Toronto Buffalo Bills would be a little odd but as long as "Buffalo Bills" are in the name, I'm okay with it.

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

Well, we could turn Rich Stadium into a giant aquarium - and people could pay to fish there with their Bass Pro Shops purchases. :fishy:
RWS and the field house could be used for U of Buffalo football too.

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

If Buffalo can keep the Sabres, with Toronto also having an NHL team, there is apparently enough people in Buffalo to support a sports team. I think Buffalo has the fans, and the money, it's just that I think people would be more willing to pay the league average ticket price for an average team. People will be more amicable to the paying below league averages for a below average team.

I think people wouuldve paid 100 bucks a ticket to see the 89-93 bills.

How do you think the Pittsburgh Pirates sell out so many games even though theyre so bad? Because you can get a seat for 8 bucks.
Comparing the NHL to the NFL is ludicrous. One is a money making machine, the other is a sport that loses to poker on TV. The $$$ needed to play the NFL game is beyond what Buffalo can generate...unless you get Toronto to pitch in.

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

That's it exactly. It's one small step towards removing the team from Buffalo. It's disgraceful, given the huge sums of NYS taxpayer (and fan) money that have been bequeathed to this team over the years.
Huge sums of taxpayer money???? Don't make me laugh. How much have the taxpayers paid for the Bills over the last 48 years? $300 million? In NFL dollars that's chump change! Buffalo and the taxpayers are getting a bargain. An NFL team with tickets as low as $27?? Buffalo fans ought to get out of town once in a while and see the rest of the world. Maybe you'd stop feeling so sorry about yourselves.

PTR

[jamze132]

Ok, lets think hypotheticaly for just one minute...

The Bills are now under new ownership and they are leaving Buffalo following the season. Would you rather have them move a few miles north or across the country to LA? I would much rather have them move to Toronto than anywhere else outside Buffalo.

Back to reality...

I would love nothing more for my beloved Bills to stay in Buffalo.

[Saratoga Slim]

I have several thoughts on this.

First, fans have to realize that, like it or not, the league IS going to play regular season games in other countries. Every team will eventually be required to do so. Every team will lose a home game every other year under the plan. So, in that regard, Toronto is the best place to do it. Bills fans can still drive to the game and see their team.....and they will still have the "home crowd." As opposed to playing in Europe, where a very small % of WNYers will be able to go, and the stadium could even be filled with fans of the other team.

For example, the league will have one game in Europe in 2008, and right now the Bills are a very prime candidate to play in Germany against Kansas City (it will be a KC "home" game). That doesn't bother me at all, because playing at Arrowhead is very difficult, and this decreases the Chiefs "home field advantage."

Secondly, it looks like Toronto is serious about trying to land a team in their city eventually. If they did, and it weren't the Bills who moved there, it will still drastically effect the Bills fan base, as they will lose most of their Toronto/Canadian fans to the new team up north. So, by the Bills increasing their presence there NOW, they still have a chance to salvage many of those fans and keep them coming to WNY even after Toronto does land a team. In essence, it is a pre-emptive strike to keep their fans as long as possible.

I'm scared just like everyone else. I bleed BUFFALO BILLS red, white, and blue just like all of you. And I'd much rather play every regular season game, every single season, for the next thousand years in Buffalo......and it scares the crap out of me that that may not happen - and may not happen sooner rather than later.

But if the organization (Ralph) and the city/county just sit around and wait for Ralph to die and see what happens, by then it will be too late. Toronto will have their act together, they'll have the fan base in place, and Erie County will have nothing to counter with. And if that happens, we won't be talking anymore about "1 game in Toronto." We'll be talking about 7 in Toronto and 1 in Europe.

Good post.

[Devin]

I see this as backfiring- all it's going to do is increase Toronto's desire to have an NFL franchise, which is the worst possible thing for the Bills (especially since there's a good chance that franchise could BE the Bills).

Thats likely true. I honestly think this is the start so to speak, the Bills are creaking open "that door".

[Jan Reimers]

I guess I'm too trusting, but I take these Toronto games at face value. Every team in the league is required to play international games over some period of time, and the Bills would like to further tap into the Toronto market for both individual and luxury box sales. So, it's a perfect pairing.

The only way we keep the Bills in Buffalo is for local ownership to step up when Ralph passes. A couple of games in Toronto will have no bearing on whether a local hero will come forward and keep our team here.

[Novacane]

Ok, lets think hypotheticaly for just one minute...

The Bills are now under new ownership and they are leaving Buffalo following the season. Would you rather have them move a few miles north or across the country to LA? I would much rather have them move to Toronto than anywhere else outside Buffalo.

Back to reality...

I would love nothing more for my beloved Bills to stay in Buffalo.


If they leave Buffalo I'll hate them no matter how close or far away they move

[Cleve]

Cleveland survived losing the first Browns team. We'd survive losing the Bills. We could certainly create a new Bills team - I'd have to think *someone* would think $50 million a year in profits is a worthwhile venture - many businesses operate year after year on far smaller revenues.

[G. Host]

First, fans have to realize that, like it or not, the league IS going to play regular season games in other countries. Every team will eventually be required to do so. Every team will lose a home game every other year under the plan.

Every other year? No. That would be 16 games a year played outside the US.

[jamze132]

If they leave Buffalo I'll hate them no matter how close or far away they move
Hating the team is dumb in my opinion. If they move, it's because someone else bought the team and chose to move them. You can hate the owner but why the team? It's going to be the same players either in Toronto or LA or Buffalo.

If you want to blame someone for this team moving blame Dick for assembling the bumbling, stumbling coaching staff that no one wants to see play which is hurting the revenue of the Buffalo Bills. Blame Marv for hiring Dick and blame Ralph for hiring Marv. No individual is bigger than the team itself. If they move, they are still a team and probably the team I will continue to cheer for. I have grown up watching the franchise grow into what it is today.

Poor play will ultimately doom almost any franchise in almost any market eventually.

[jamze132]

Cleveland survived losing the first Browns team. We'd survive losing the Bills. We could certainly create a new Bills team - I'd have to think *someone* would think $50 million a year in profits is a worthwhile venture - many businesses operate year after year on far smaller revenues.
If that were enough, their would already be an owner lined up ready take control tomorrow. They want more.

I'm not 100% sure Ralph is pocketing $50 mil per year. Actually I highly doubt it.

[Bone]

This sucks.

It's not even fun to root for the Bills these days when in the back of your mind you know something bad is going to happen:curse:

[Coach Sal]

Every other year? No. That would be 16 games a year played outside the US.

No, that's exactly right.

The league would like to play a 17-game regular season, with every team playing 1 game per season (equals 16 games/year total) outside the country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/26/AR2007042602579.html

As of right now, it will be 2 games/season overall, but the plan is to eventually have everyone play once/year overseas.

[paladin warrior]

If this team moves to Canada, I'll quit watching them.ME too. I will go with NY Giants in the future.. Unless if Bills no longer anymore:sad:

[BillsFever21]

I would hate to see the Bills move. IF they did move to Toronto I would still follow them and go to a game every now and then. I wouldn't have season tickets like I do in Buffalo though.

If they had to move I would rather be Toronto then out West. I started watching the Bills because I could go to the games and have a team close by I could watch. The next closest teams to me are both the Browns and Steelers which are each about 3 hours away. That is about the distance Toronto would be(as far as I know) I would NEVER root on Pittsburgh and you couldn't get tickets anyway. The Browns never did very much for me.

I would hate to see Buffalo move but if it meant better ownership and a better team at least that is better then the alternative right now.

[mybills]

Hating the team is dumb in my opinion.

Moving to Canada, will make them an INTERnational team. This is the NFL, not the IFL.

[henrybacker]

The NFL should do whatever it can to protect the Buffalo Bills from going under. The fan support for this garbage they have thrown out there every sunday is incredible. If the NFL does not do as such, I will no longer watch the NFL.

[jamze132]

Moving to Canada, will make them an INTERnational team. This is the NFL, not the IFL.
I have no idea what your response has to do with my quote?


BUT... I am well aware of what the NFL stands for. I am also aware of what both conferences stand for. I am also aware that in baseball there is a National League AND an American League, just like in football. Did you know that the Toronto Blue Jays are in the American League? Does it make sense? No. But do to allignment problems, it is what it is. So really don't think it's that far fetched to have an NFL team in Canada, hell they are practicaly American anways, minus the Frenchies.

[ajsdx]

Moving to Canada, will make them an INTERnational team. This is the NFL, not the IFL.

The Toronto Raptors don't play in the IBA.