Bills hope Toronto is cash cushion

[Michael82]

Toronto. Is it the ultimate threat to Buffalo, as a possible new home for the Buffalo Bills?

Or should it be viewed as part of the solution, as a valuable addition to the Bills’ expanding geographic market — and as a way to ease, slightly, the financial burden for seasonticket holders?

After hearing the team is seeking to move one regular-season game to Toronto each year through 2012, many Buffalo Bills fans fear the news signals a parade of vans heading up the QEW, from Orchard Park to Toronto.

Local business leaders, though, seem to take the Bills at their word, that this is being done to help strengthen the Bills’ marketing efforts in Southern Ontario.

“Is this the first step in the team moving to Toronto?” asked Erkie Kailbourne, chairman emeritus of the Business Backs the Bills committee. “I would say no. This is an appropriate strategy for the Bills to continue to attract Canadian fans, and more importantly, business support for their premium seating.”

Moving one Bills home game to Toronto each year seems like a dramatic attempt to rectify what probably has been the team’s biggest off-field weakness in the last decade — selling suites and club seats to Southern Ontario businesses.

Hosting an annual game in Toronto could be seen as the northern equivalent to the Bills moving their training camp to the Rochester suburb of Pittsford in 2000. That has been an unqualified success in strengthening the team’s Rochester- area support. Business leaders look at the economic strength of any potential market. So when the Bills talk about extending their reach into northwestern Pennsylvania, the Southern Tier and the Rochester and Syracuse areas, these business leaders see a largely stagnant economy similar to Buffalo’s.

Then they look across the international bridges to Canada — where they see growth, a stronger dollar and a huge potential market for the Bills.

“We must find new business revenue for our premium seating, and that’s the only market that has the growth and demographics to yield that at the present time,” Kailbourne said.

Anyone looking at this from a business perspective would have a tough time opposing the bold marketing venture into Canada, said Jonathan A. Dandes, president of Rich Baseball Operations.

“Long term, big picture, if it helps stabilize the franchise and creates more fans in Southern Ontario, how can you be against it?” he asked.

Still, some of these business leaders remain wary about what will happen when Bills owner Ralph C. Wilson Jr. passes from the scene.

Ronald K. Zoeller, who co-chaired the Business Backs the Bills committee that helped sell enough premium seats in 1998 to ensure the team stayed here, had typical reactions to the Toronto news.

His initial gut reaction was negative, that this could be the forerunner to the Bills playing more and more games in Toronto.

Then, he took the Bills at their word and decided that playing some games in Toronto represents no threat to the team moving there permanently — as long as Wilson stays healthy.

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/buffaloerie/story/188213.html

[Michael82]

This is a different point of view for the whole thing and it's actually very interesting. I mean, they moved training camp to Rochester and that strengthened the fan base in Rochester and the season ticket base. Now they can try doing the same thing with 1 or 2 games a year in Toronto. Plus, now it has gotten cheaper for Buffalo fans to buy season tickets. You have 1 or 2 less games and the price goes down. Now you also have less blackouts because with less home games at the Ralph, the other 7 home games will become a hotter commodity. :scratch:

[Stewie]

Just move the team to LA.... It will be cheaper for season ticket holders in buffalo, and the games will never be blacked out!

[Michael82]

Just move the team to LA.... It will be cheaper for season ticket holders in buffalo, and the games will never be blacked out!
:negrep:

[Night Train]

It still remains to be seen how affordable the ticket is for the regular (non-corporate) fan down the road, regardless of what happens after Ralph dies.

We could celebrate a local sale and keeping the team here. Then once the financials are looked at closely, the new ownership would likely have to raise prices in order to compete. Cheap seats in the Rockpile section would be nothing but a distant memory.

It has nothing to do with the Bills fans but everything to do with a bad owners agreement and an attitude of unlimited greed.

[Michael82]

It still remains to be seen how affordable the ticket is for the regular (non-corporate) fan down the road, regardless of what happens after Ralph dies.

We could celebrate a local sale and keeping the team here. Then once the financials are looked at closely, the new ownership would likely have to raise prices in order to compete. Cheap seats in the Rockpile section would be nothing but a distant memory.

It has nothing to do with the Bills fans but everything to do with a bad owners agreement and an attitude of unlimited greed.
and that is why I continue to say that the NFL will ruin themselves in the next 10-20 years. They are going to price the regular, hard working, loyal fans out of the game. And they will also start eliminating teams. I see the AFL or a version of the AFL coming back, and I bet that Buffalo would get one of those teams. :up:

[G. Host]

Whether there will be less blackouts depends on what team is chosen to play against Buffalo in Toronto and when. Openers rarely blackout and generally it is the late season games which have trouble selling out especially if they raise ticket prices in the cheap seats.

I think having a game after the Gray Cup can be a plus plus for Bills - more interest in Toronto, does not interfere with CFL, less likely to have a blackout at end of year and more jerseys & gear sales. If the NFL cooperates and chooses a tough opponent to sell (i.e. Jacksonville or Arizona) then it helps even more but what will help the most is more wins.

[Michael82]

Whether there will be less blackouts depends on what team is chosen to play against Buffalo in Toronto and when. Openers rarely blackout and generally it is the late season games which have trouble selling out especially if they raise ticket prices in the cheap seats.

I think having a game after the Gray Cup can be a plus plus for Bills - more interest in Toronto, does not interfere with CFL, less likely to have a blackout at end of year and more jerseys & gear sales. If the NFL cooperates and chooses a tough opponent to sell (i.e. Jacksonville or Arizona) then it helps even more but what will help the most is more wins.
Exactly! That's just what I was thinking.... :up:

[G. Host]

We could celebrate a local sale and keeping the team here. Then once the financials are looked at closely, the new ownership would likely have to raise prices in order to compete. Cheap seats in the Rockpile section would be nothing but a distant memory. .

I think the cheap seats in Rockpile section are the first to go. Reportedly they are seats which have the most drunks in them.

[SABURZFAN]

Just move the team to LA.... It will be cheaper for season ticket holders in buffalo, and the games will never be blacked out!



i'd like to see them move to Vegas IF they move.

[Gunzlingr]

This is the way I feel about the Toronto proposal at well. I see it as a win-win for Buffalo.

[plundar]

It still makes me sick that Wilson will not take measures to make sure the team stays in Buffalo. He has relied on the people there to line his pockets for years and now he is going to turn his back on them.

[Tiburon1724]

The whole thing is BS. I'm a season ticket holder and look forward to those 8 times a year I can go to the Ralph and cheer for the Bills. Now 1 of those is being stripped away from me? This is where it starts, all that can follow is more. At first I thought they said 1 pre and 1 reg season game - PERIOD. Then I found out they meant EVERY YEAR - that is completely unacceptable. Let them play the preseason games there but leave the regular season games alone - except for what is required by the league. I hope nobody goes to the games in Toronto and the whole thing blows up in their face. It will only help the prospect of the Buffalo Bills remaining the BUFFALO Bills. I will not cheer for the Toronto Skyfreaks or whatever they decide to name their eventual (Bills) NFL Team and I will not watch or cheer for the unknown team playing that one time per year up there in the meantime. I urge everyone to make their displeasure known as well.

[Mr. Cynical]

The whole thing is BS. I'm a season ticket holder and look forward to those 8 times a year I can go to the Ralph and cheer for the Bills. Now 1 of those is being stripped away from me? This is where it starts, all that can follow is more. At first I thought they said 1 pre and 1 reg season game - PERIOD. Then I found out they meant EVERY YEAR - that is completely unacceptable. Let them play the preseason games there but leave the regular season games alone - except for what is required by the league. I hope nobody goes to the games in Toronto and the whole thing blows up in their face. It will only help the prospect of the Buffalo Bills remaining the BUFFALO Bills. I will not cheer for the Toronto Skyfreaks or whatever they decide to name their eventual (Bills) NFL Team and I will not watch or cheer for the unknown team playing that one time per year up there in the meantime. I urge everyone to make their displeasure known as well.

Have to agree here. Playing home games in another country is BS.

I repeat - if there was a winning product on the field, more businesses would be inclined to buy seats, even business in Toronto. But as long as they continue to suck, it all comes down to relocating to an "easier" market.

[G. Host]

The whole thing is BS. I'm a season ticket holder and look forward to those 8 times a year I can go to the Ralph and cheer for the Bills.

If you do not want the Bills to do this buy a box. Bills are just trying sell the booths. The choice appears to be regionalization or moving.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I can understand the point of this but could we ever build a new stadium for 7 games a year?

[Michael82]

I can understand the point of this but could we ever build a new stadium for 7 games a year?
that's why it would have to be temporary.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The whole thing is BS. I'm a season ticket holder and look forward to those 8 times a year I can go to the Ralph and cheer for the Bills. Now 1 of those is being stripped away from me? This is where it starts, all that can follow is more. At first I thought they said 1 pre and 1 reg season game - PERIOD. Then I found out they meant EVERY YEAR - that is completely unacceptable. Let them play the preseason games there but leave the regular season games alone - except for what is required by the league. I hope nobody goes to the games in Toronto and the whole thing blows up in their face. It will only help the prospect of the Buffalo Bills remaining the BUFFALO Bills. I will not cheer for the Toronto Skyfreaks or whatever they decide to name their eventual (Bills) NFL Team and I will not watch or cheer for the unknown team playing that one time per year up there in the meantime. I urge everyone to make their displeasure known as well.
I am with you. This can't done every year. It is COMPLETE BS.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If this is done for say 4 years just as a means to build the base and until we can get the Buffalo market going then fine but I can't except it as a guarantee going forward.

[YardRat]

It's win/win for Ralph himself... I don't know if that's true for the entire organization or not. From a strictly business standpoint, it's a very smart move.

[Michael82]

If this is done for say 4 years just as a means to build the base and until we can get the Buffalo market going then fine but I can't except it as a guarantee going forward.
if it's done for 3-4 years, hopefully they will work on a new lease agreement with Erie County that assures the team will stay in here or take a HUGE penalty in 15-20 years.

[Michael82]

I will say this, I'll be going to the regular season game in Toronto, and will be glad that I don't have to pay full price for the preseason game, so I'll watch that one at home.

[G. Host]

I can understand the point of this but could we ever build a new stadium for 7 games a year?

Despite wishes for a new stadium there is no way the Bills are going to get one. The state will not support and neither will fans support the ticket increase required to get the team in invest in one even if they could convince the league to loan them the money like other teams have gotten.

[G. Host]

I will say this, I'll be going to the regular season game in Toronto, and will be glad that I don't have to pay full price for the preseason game, so I'll watch that one at home.

Most fans would be happy to sacrifice one of the preseason games if the Bills cut the cost of a season ticket. One of them is useful for Kids Day to get kids a chance to see them play live and hopefully generate new fans.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If this were to be enacted as a full time thing it would ruin a Super bowl victory for me. We would have to share it as a Toronto/Buffalo Superbowl and that is BS to me. Blah blah blah but canada has 15,000 season tickets blah blah blah. They come to the game because it is something to do and not because they have great passion for the team. Yes I know that is a blanket statement and does not hold true for all. I have seen COUNTLESS numbers of canadian "Bills" fans over the last 15 years(6 of which are with season tickets) rarely do you find one that actually gives two craps about the bills. Half the time they start Leaf chants for christ sakes. It would cheapen the great feeling I would have had after suffering for so many years.... But that is life right. The rich get richer while ****ting on the poor... :ill:

[Tiburon1724]

If you do not want the Bills to do this buy a box. Bills are just trying sell the booths. The choice appears to be regionalization or moving.

Well since I can't afford a box right now, I did what I could and bought season tickets. Once I finish Pharmacy school I'll buy a box.

[Tiburon1724]

if it's done for 3-4 years, hopefully they will work on a new lease agreement with Erie County that assures the team will stay in here or take a HUGE penalty in 15-20 years.
It's through 2012. - the end of the stadium lease. Anyone who buys a ticket to the games in Toronto is directly helping relocate the Bills.

[YardRat]

If this were to be enacted as a full time thing it would ruin a Super bowl victory for me. We would have to share it as a Toronto/Buffalo Superbowl and that is BS to me. Blah blah blah but canada has 15,000 season tickets blah blah blah. They come to the game because it is something to do and not because they have great passion for the team. Yes I know that is a blanket statement and does not hold true for all. I have seen COUNTLESS numbers of canadian "Bills" fans over the last 15 years(6 of which are with season tickets) rarely do you find one that actually gives two craps about the bills. Half the time they start Leaf chants for christ sakes. It would cheapen the great feeling I would have had after suffering for so many years.... But that is life right. The rich get richer while ****ting on the poor... :ill:

Just imagine how you're going to feel when the team finally does make the play-offs again, and it's announced the 'home' game will be played in Toronto.

[G. Host]

It's through 2012. - the end of the stadium lease. Anyone who buys a ticket to the games in Toronto is directly helping relocate the Bills.

Nonsense. The lease means nothing to the owner of the Bills for the penality is so small it does not factor into the equation. If Ralph or replacement owner wanted to move the Bills they could move the Bills now by just breaking the lease but as long as the lease is in effect they need to ask for permission.

[TacklingDummy]

Anyone who buys a ticket to the games in Toronto is directly helping relocate the Bills.

Agreed.

They will be the first ones crying when the Bills pack up and move.

[TacklingDummy]

Most fans would be happy to sacrifice one of the preseason games if the Bills cut the cost of a season ticket.

I thought Bills tickets were some of the lowest ticket prices in the NFL?

[Wys Guy]

The whole thing is BS. I'm a season ticket holder and look forward to those 8 times a year I can go to the Ralph and cheer for the Bills. Now 1 of those is being stripped away from me? This is where it starts, all that can follow is more. At first I thought they said 1 pre and 1 reg season game - PERIOD. Then I found out they meant EVERY YEAR - that is completely unacceptable. Let them play the preseason games there but leave the regular season games alone - except for what is required by the league. I hope nobody goes to the games in Toronto and the whole thing blows up in their face. It will only help the prospect of the Buffalo Bills remaining the BUFFALO Bills. I will not cheer for the Toronto Skyfreaks or whatever they decide to name their eventual (Bills) NFL Team and I will not watch or cheer for the unknown team playing that one time per year up there in the meantime. I urge everyone to make their displeasure known as well.

You make some good points! Now all ST holders would have to go thru all the BS of crossing the border and driving to Toronto.

This is all just a smokescreen anyway. It still boils down to TV markets and premium/luxury seating. The article says this regarding TV markets:

National ratings of televised Bills games, which clearly are boosted by all the native Buffalonians living elsewhere.

But it has nothing to do w/ "Bills fans living elsewhere." It's the size of the TV market where the league has a team. The Bills aren't a national draw like the Pats or Colt or Cowboys.

The team isn't going anywhere until Wilson passes or decides to sell it otherwise. After that, it becomes a simple matter of business economics. We can all appreciate the regional media and business community to attempt to rationalize why the team won't move, but it's gone when Wilson is.

Wilson bought this team for a song and can make money. Just about anyone buying it w/ designs on keeping the team in WNY would have to finance at least part of the deal which will be on the magnitude of a billion dollars. Wilson doesn't have to worry about making enough to cover interest on his investment whereas a new owner would. So why wouldn't a team move if its owner could make more money elsewhere. People, businessmen, simply don't do things at that level and expense for sentimental reasons.