I want to say one thing about our QB's and then that's it..

[patmoran2006]

Forget for a second who you like better; Losman or Edwards. Forget about who you would PREFER to start.


Here is the bottom line.. There is a 0.000000001% chance that Ralph Wilson is going to pay Losman an extension to keep him here after the season, meaning he's getting traded somewhere this winter (prolly for pick between rounds 3-5). I don't think it's even DEBATABLE that Wilson is going to pay him $40-50 million; and I think Losman's own family even knows that, let alone his supporters on here.

Having said that, for many reasons, but none bigger than the stated above, I want Edwards to play as much as possible and get as much valuable experience as he can so he heads into 2008 with much more confidence and battle-tested poise.

I hope the Bills win against Cinci, I really do and I think we will. But I hope its because of the defense and a STRONG running game. I'd be lying otherwise-- I think a strong JP performance is only going to make the locker room (not to mention this board) a lot worse. I hope JP plays well enough for us to win, that's it. Sorry

[SquishDaFish]

Hell no if we arent going to pay him I want him to light it up the rest of season and put up pro bowl #s so at least they HAVE to pay him or we can get something great for him. I just want W's GO BUFFALO!!

[gr8slayer]

So you're basically hoping Losman plays poorly....... No one can ever question your loyalty as a fan Pat.

[patmoran2006]

So you're basically hoping Losman plays poorly....... No one can ever question your loyalty as a fan Pat.
I didnt say that.. I said I hope he plays like both he and Edwards have done so far this season.. Just well enough to win.

I made it very clear I want the Bills to win. But personally, to be honest I hope its on the strength of the defense (again), and a brutally strong performance by Lynch.. I dont want Losman to get hurt or throw picks.. I just hope he manages the game and plays "well enough for him to win"


TRUST ME WHEN I TELL YOU THIS and I'll bet anybody anything they want. Ralph Wilson.. is.........NOT...........going...........to.. pay.. losman........the big extension at the end of the season. I dont care if he throws 20 TD's and 2 INT's the rest of the way.. He LIKES Trent Edwards and he WILL be the QB next year if not next week.

So Losman playing great is only going to piss you guys off more come winter time, because except for maybe Gr8slayer, some of you guys are failing to remember exactly who our owner is..

This is a situation I never been in as a Bills fan, because I despise Wilson and I hate the REASON Losman won't get paid whether he's great or not.. but at the same time I agree with Wilson because I too like Edwards a hell of a lot.

[Ed]

Pat, I kind of understand where you're coming from, but assuming JP did put up pro-bowl numbers, lead us to a playoff berth and finally become the qb we all hoped he would this year, there's just something wrong with that being a bad thing for Buffalo.

Even if there's no chance of Wilson wanting to re-sign Losman, I don't want to root for him to only do ok in order to justify his cheapness.

[patmoran2006]

Pat, I kind of understand where you're coming from, but assuming JP did put up pro-bowl numbers, lead us to a playoff berth and finally become the qb we all hoped he would this year, there's just something wrong with that being a bad thing for Buffalo.

Even if there's no chance of Wilson wanting to re-sign Losman, I don't want to root for him to only do ok in order to justify his cheapness.
I'm not justifying his cheapness. I freekin HATE Ralph Wilson as an owner.

I'm just keeping it real. Whether we like it or not, Wilson is going with Edwards next season and not paying Losman, so as a Bills fan I want Trent to get as much experience as possible.

I'm obviously in the minority, but even money issues aside, if I was the head coach I'd play Edwards because I think he's even with Losman now and long-term is going to be a lot better.. and this is DEFINITELY a team being built for the long term, which you would concur?

[shelby]

If we don't keep JP next season, and if the front office knows they don't plan to keep him, it would be in their best interests to let JP play so that other teams may become interested in him.

i wish JP success, either here or with another team, because i genuinely like the kid.

i think TE will be a decent QB next season, as he continues to gain experience.

The bottom line is, i want both of them to do well, but i don't feel that either is the answer to our stumbling offense.

[patmoran2006]

If we don't keep JP next season, and if the front office knows they don't plan to keep him, it would be in their best interests to let JP play so that other teams may become interested in him.

i wish JP success, either here or with another team, because i genuinely like the kid.

i think TE will be a decent QB next season, as he continues to gain experience.

The bottom line is, i want both of them to do well, but i don't feel that either is the answer to our stumbling offense.
I like JP LOSMAN personally.. He's one of the most "real" and down to earth guys I've ever met in football. He genuially loves this city.

I just dont think he's the QB that Edwards is going to be. .and even if I'm wrong, it doesnt matter because he's not going to be here for the long haul anyway.

[PECKERWOOD]

If JP lit it up and got to the pro bowl and turned the corner and Ralph still didn't pay him, then I would be done. I would refuse to watch the Bills and the NFL completely all together. I'm not sure why any of you would keep watching the Bills if this happened either. I would resort to college football.

[gr8slayer]

If JP lit it up and got to the pro bowl and turned the corner and Ralph still didn't pay him, then I would be done. I would refuse to watch the Bills and the NFL completely all together. I'm not sure why any of you would keep watching the Bills if this happened either. I would resort to college football.
Sadly, even if Losman led us to a ring Wilson would still not pay the man. This team will never win anything with Wilson at the helm, it's not like it's breaking news.

[PECKERWOOD]

Sadly, even if Losman led us to a ring Wilson would still not pay the man. This team will never win anything with Wilson at the helm, it's not like it's breaking news.

Just because the banter around here is that Wilson is cheap, I don't believe it. I think if Losman truly lit it up, Ralphy would pay him. He is a smart business man, if he did not pay Losman then he would lose ALOT of support.

[Dr. Lecter]

Sadly, even if Losman led us to a ring Wilson would still not pay the man. This team will never win anything with Wilson at the helm, it's not like it's breaking news.

Sigh.

The idea of Ralph not paying guys market values (or more) has been shot down 58,692 times in the past.

[patmoran2006]

If JP lit it up and got to the pro bowl and turned the corner and Ralph still didn't pay him, then I would be done. I would refuse to watch the Bills and the NFL completely all together. I'm not sure why any of you would keep watching the Bills if this happened either. I would resort to college football.
Sometimes with this team you get blind-sided with something.. and then sometimes you can see things coming from a MILE away dude.

An example of a blind-side may be Pat Williams? I'm pretty sure most (including me) thought he'd be a priority re-signing but we just let him walk away.

With this QB deal though, this is coming from a very long, long mile away.

Wilson likes Trent, and convienantly, his 2008 base salary is $6.130 million LESS than Losman's next year (and that doesnt include any incentives JP could've maybe reached this year).

2008 Base Salaries
JP Losman $6.5 million
Trent Edwards $370 thousand

That's all you need to know man. That **** aint just written on the wall, its spray-painted in big, huge letters.

[The Answer]

PM makes some good points and it's no secret that Big Ralph is a tightwad.

Best case scenario at this point is that Losman plays great against the Bengals, and possibly the Dolphins next week if Edwards isn't ready to go because it will up his trade value.

Either way he's finished in Buffalo as the coaching staff and front office has already made thier decision to move forward with Edwards as starting QB of this team.

~The Answer

[PECKERWOOD]

Sometimes with this team you get blind-sided with something.. and then sometimes you can see things coming from a MILE away dude.

An example of a blind-side may be Pat Williams? I'm pretty sure most (including me) thought he'd be a priority re-signing but we just let him walk away.

With this QB deal though, this is coming from a very long, long mile away.

Wilson likes Trent, and convienantly, his 2008 base salary is $6.130 million LESS than Losman's next year (and that doesnt include any incentives JP could've maybe reached this year).

2008 Base Salaries
JP Losman $6.5 million
Trent Edwards $370 thousand

That's all you need to know man. That **** aint just written on the wall, its spray-painted in big, huge letters.


QB is WAAAAAY different. You pay a franchise QB when he comes, Ralph has done some stupid things in the past but he isn't brain dead. I guarantee you that half of the posters on this board would be GONE if we found a franchise QB and opted not to pay him.

[gr8slayer]

Sigh.

The idea of Ralph not paying guys market values (or more) has been shot down 58,692 times in the past.
Because every five years he brings in a decent-good player?

Also, you do realize how much money is just sitting there under the cap right?

[PECKERWOOD]

Sigh.

The idea of Ralph not paying guys market values (or more) has been shot down 58,692 times in the past.

:check:

[PECKERWOOD]

Because every five years he brings in a decent-good player?

Also, you do realize how much money is just sitting there under the cap right?

Honestly? How many game breakers did you find this offseason that we should have signed? We already spent a TON of money on Schobel, Kelsay, Dockery and Walker. Rome was not built in a day friend.

[patmoran2006]

QB is WAAAAAY different. You pay a franchise QB when he comes, Ralph has done some stupid things in the past but he isn't brain dead. I guarantee you that half of the posters on this board would be GONE if we found a franchise QB and opted not to pay him.
I in principle DO NOT disagree with you.

Here's the problem.. Wilson is ENAMORED with Edwards, not Losman.

Marv Levy drafted Edwards, not Losman.

Dont you remember the trade rumors last year? Don't you remember they signed a bum (Nall) and gave him $1.3 million to come and compete for a starting job?

Losman is not this current organization's guy, Wilson likes Edwards, he's a fraction of JP's price next year.. The writing literally is all over the place.

[gr8slayer]

Honestly? How many game breakers did you find this offseason that we should have signed? We already spent a TON of money on Schobel, Kelsay, Dockery and Walker. Rome was not built in a day friend.
Well in NFL years we could have built Rome five times by now. We haven't made the play-offs in damn near a decade. When do the excuses for Ralph's sorry ass stop? The man has had decades and hasn't gotten it done, do we need to wait another forty years before he gets it right?

[PECKERWOOD]

I in principle DO NOT disagree with you.

Here's the problem.. Wilson is ENAMORED with Edwards, not Losman.

Marv Levy drafted Edwards, not Losman.

Dont you remember the trade rumors last year? Don't you remember they signed a bum (Nall) and gave him $1.3 million to come and compete for a starting job?

Losman is not this current organization's guy, Wilson likes Edwards, he's a fraction of JP's price next year.. The writing literally is all over the place.

Losman is out of here if he doesn't do anything but if he DOES do something significant then he IS staying. I will bet all of my ZB's on it. We haven't had a franchise QB in a decade, no way Ralph passes him up.

[patmoran2006]

Honestly? How many game breakers did you find this offseason that we should have signed? We already spent a TON of money on Schobel, Kelsay, Dockery and Walker. Rome was not built in a day friend.

Don't go there.

Randy Moss, Adalius THomas, Donte Stallworth and Wes Welker were all acquired by NE, all have been big time gamebreakers, and combined they costed LESS money than Schobel, Kelsay, Dockery and Walker.

Our FA talent evaluation, which I'm assuming is led by Guy, absolutely SUCKS and has for several seasons now.

But without being ignorant, I fail to see what your point is, specifically regarding Losman or Edwards (on this particular topic)

[PECKERWOOD]

Don't go there.

Randy Moss, Adalius THomas, Donte Stallworth and Wes Welker were all acquired by NE, all have been big time gamebreakers, and combined they costed LESS money than Schobel, Kelsay, Dockery and Walker.

Our FA talent evaluation, which I'm assuming is led by Guy, absolutely SUCKS and has for several seasons now.

But without being ignorant, I fail to see what your point is, specifically regarding Losman or Edwards (on this particular topic)

Big FA's will take less money to play for a contender such as New England. Hell, Randy Moss restructured his deal and took a pay cut to play for them. Btw, we are not New England. We cannot go out and sign every big FA and expect to win. Marv did not goto the school of Snyder. Plus, you need to look at New England's market, they have ALOT more cash to spend on FA's then we do. If Ralph will pay an unproven Derrick Dockery 50 million, then he will sure as hell pay a proven (hypothetically speaking..) JP Losman.

[Ebenezer]

Forget for a second who you like better; Losman or Edwards. Forget about who you would PREFER to start.


Here is the bottom line.. There is a 0.000000001% chance that Ralph Wilson is going to pay Losman an extension to keep him here after the season, meaning he's getting traded somewhere this winter (prolly for pick between rounds 3-5). I don't think it's even DEBATABLE that Wilson is going to pay him $40-50 million; and I think Losman's own family even knows that, let alone his supporters on here.

Having said that, for many reasons, but none bigger than the stated above, I want Edwards to play as much as possible and get as much valuable experience as he can so he heads into 2008 with much more confidence and battle-tested poise.

I hope the Bills win against Cinci, I really do and I think we will. But I hope its because of the defense and a STRONG running game. I'd be lying otherwise-- I think a strong JP performance is only going to make the locker room (not to mention this board) a lot worse. I hope JP plays well enough for us to win, that's it. Sorry


Sanest post you have ever made. RW is not going to pay JP unless JP goes out there and throws for 300 yards and 3 TDs every week for the rest of the season - not happening. TE is the long-term man.

[Ebenezer]

Don't go there.

Randy Moss, Adalius THomas, Donte Stallworth and Wes Welker were all acquired by NE, all have been big time gamebreakers, and combined they costed LESS money than Schobel, Kelsay, Dockery and Walker.

Our FA talent evaluation, which I'm assuming is led by Guy, absolutely SUCKS and has for several seasons now.

But without being ignorant, I fail to see what your point is, specifically regarding Losman or Edwards (on this particular topic)

I'n not giving Guy a free pass, I have major problems with him too but....

they are taking less money to play for a team that has a better than even chance of winning a SB...watch out for their next FA contract (especially Moss) - they will rake in huge $$$

[PECKERWOOD]

Let me also add this. Belichick won Kraft 3 rings and is on his way to the 4th. I'm sure that Kraft will pay for every big free agent that Belichick asks for, with Modrak it's a COMPLETELY different story. The trust just isn't there.

[Ebenezer]

Let me also add this. Belichick won Kraft 3 rings and is on his way to the 4th. I'm sure that Kraft will pay for every big free agent that Belichick asks for, with Modrak it's a COMPLETELY different story. The trust just isn't there.
and at this point it will take a lot of convincing for players to come here...

[PECKERWOOD]

and at this point it will take a lot of convincing for players to come here...

Thank you! That is exactly my point, money talks. That is the only way we are going to get big time names here is by over paying for them.

[Ed]

I'm not justifying his cheapness. I freekin HATE Ralph Wilson as an owner.

I'm just keeping it real. Whether we like it or not, Wilson is going with Edwards next season and not paying Losman, so as a Bills fan I want Trent to get as much experience as possible.

I'm obviously in the minority, but even money issues aside, if I was the head coach I'd play Edwards because I think he's even with Losman now and long-term is going to be a lot better.. and this is DEFINITELY a team being built for the long term, which you would concur?
I guess I'm just not as sold on Edwards as you are and refuse to accept that Losman can't still be part of our long term answer if he steps up. I like the idea of potentially have two good qb's and some options in terms of our future. Edwards is too much of an unknown for me right now, so I don't like feeling he's our only hope and we're forced to just start all over again.

[acehole]

You are probably right and nobody is happier about that then JP Lossman.
The bigger question is how foolish R Wilson will look when L Evans and other FA's turn down a boatload in Buffalo to go elsewhere when it happens. Hoping JP doesnt have a big day is selfish Pat even for you. Edwards was drafted as the future and leverage and value in that round...and now we see all of those things are true. We have to stop running Qb's out of this town. You know as well as I do...especially after all your offseason rants...that this teams problems go well beyond the qb. This debate is masking so many other issues with this team. It is even possible that is by design. Coaches and Gm's get more slack with a rookie at the helm....you can allways pull the rookie card out to make excuses for job security. Pat I am just so tired or the 15 year plan to rebuild. I hope JP does well on Sunday and plays out his contract. In the mean time lets give him or whoever is at qb some help. Another DT and CB and LB also. How about a pass rush specialist? A legit #2 wideout? A TE who can catch and block? IF JP does well and wins the lockeroom will be fine and pumped. This board will find a way to fault JP no doubt...if he score 4 TD's they will say he should have score 5 against the d yada yada. Possibly the old man comes around and spends some dollars next year instead of this "crash to crap" stuff. We get our injured guys back next year and we might have somthing to build the rest of this year on to the next. So dont worry ..be happy.


Forget for a second who you like better; Losman or Edwards. Forget about who you would PREFER to start.


Here is the bottom line.. There is a 0.000000001% chance that Ralph Wilson is going to pay Losman an extension to keep him here after the season, meaning he's getting traded somewhere this winter (prolly for pick between rounds 3-5). I don't think it's even DEBATABLE that Wilson is going to pay him $40-50 million; and I think Losman's own family even knows that, let alone his supporters on here.

Having said that, for many reasons, but none bigger than the stated above, I want Edwards to play as much as possible and get as much valuable experience as he can so he heads into 2008 with much more confidence and battle-tested poise.

I hope the Bills win against Cinci, I really do and I think we will. But I hope its because of the defense and a STRONG running game. I'd be lying otherwise-- I think a strong JP performance is only going to make the locker room (not to mention this board) a lot worse. I hope JP plays well enough for us to win, that's it. Sorry

[Ebenezer]

Thank you! That is exactly my point, money talks. That is the only way we are going to get big time names here is by over paying for them.
not true...win.

if this were 1992 and Polian was the GM this team would be in the exact same position as NE is now...Veteran, quality players would be lining up to play here...and for cheaper than you think. Put yourself in Moss's shoes. This is his chance at a ring. He can go get the money after this. He keeps putting up numbers for another 5-7 years and regardless the jerk he can be he will make the HOF, have a ring and more money than he can spend.

[PECKERWOOD]

Woooh Wooh Wooh Wooh Wooh Wooh Wooh Wooooooo E OOOOOOOH! Don't worry, ah be happy!

[PECKERWOOD]

not true...win.

if this were 1992 and Polian was the GM this team would be in the exact same position as NE is now...Veteran, quality players would be lining up to play here...and for cheaper than you think. Put yourself in Moss's shoes. This is his chance at a ring. He can go get the money after this. He keeps putting up numbers for another 5-7 years and regardless the jerk he can be he will make the HOF, have a ring and more money than he can spend.


Well yah, that too but I'm saying in our current state.

[John Doe]

Well yah, that too but I'm saying in our current state.

Don't forget that playing in a big media center results in higher endorsement deals as well - the "hidden" salary bonus. Buffalo just does not have that going for it.