View Full Version : Resting the defense
mybills
11-01-2007, 07:44 AM
Buffalo posted five first downs on that opening drive and it paid dividends later in the game for Buffalo's defense. The Bills defensive unit was fresh in the fourth quarter as they forced two punts and pulled in two interceptions to stop New York drives and preserve a 6-3 lead that eventually became a 10-point advantage and a win.
http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5478 (link posted as source only, please stay on topic.) Thanks in advance.
Some of you mentioned that Lee Evans played harder for JP in the Jets game. Could the same be said about the defense? They weren't exactly "fresh" in the 3rd after resting at half time. :idunno:
jamze132
11-01-2007, 08:43 AM
Any time the offense can get a couple first downs on a drive, it helps the defense.
I look forward to them getting better the further we get into the season. Sticking with one QB will allow the offense to be more comfortable and avoid stupid mistakes.
[B]
Some of you mentioned that Lee Evans played harder for JP in the Jets game. Could the same be said about the defense? They weren't exactly "fresh" in the 3rd after resting at half time. :idunno:
No.
OpIv37
11-01-2007, 01:03 PM
if they were so fresh, why was Ryan Neill playing DE on the Jets' final drive?
HHURRICANE
11-01-2007, 01:04 PM
Edwards did a great job of keeping the D off of the field.
patmoran2006
11-01-2007, 01:14 PM
Edwards is that type of QB, and with experience will come less INT's and more bigger plays..
AS for Evans, I HATE his mouth lately, but its garbage to say he plays harder for one QB. He made a couple nice tough catches earlier in the game when edwards was in
mybills
11-01-2007, 01:17 PM
Edwards did a great job of keeping the D off of the field.
I'm pretty sure they were all off the field at half time.
HHURRICANE
11-01-2007, 01:25 PM
I'm pretty sure they were all off the field at half time.
Edwards 1st drive took 10:03 off the clock.
Losman had 3 drives of 2:17, 4:10, and 2:19 equalling 8:46.
Losman is not going to keep the D off the field and this will play out on Sunday.
patmoran2006
11-01-2007, 01:29 PM
we've averaged 32:03 time of possesion per game during Edward's four starts
patmoran2006
11-01-2007, 01:30 PM
Edwards 1st drive took 10:03 off the clock.
Losman had 3 drives of 2:17, 4:10, and 2:19 equalling 8:46.
Losman is not going to keep the D off the field and this will play out on Sunday.
People see what they want to.
If your a JP guy nothing is going to change.. Vice Versa
With JP the plus is POTENTIAL for an explosive day vs the potential for a slew of 3 and outs, ugly passes, quick punts and bad field position against an offense that score like crazy when they're on (cinci)
mybills
11-01-2007, 01:31 PM
Edwards 1st drive took 10:03 off the clock.
Losman had 3 drives of 2:17, 4:10, and 2:19 equalling 8:46.
Losman is not going to keep the D off the field and this will play out on Sunday.
I'm not getting into QB pissing match with you.
Read it again: :shakeno:
Buffalo posted five first downs on that opening drive and it paid dividends later in the game for Buffalo's defense. The Bills defensive unit was fresh in the fourth quarter They obviously gave TE love in the first quarter, but they have completely left out the 2nd & 3rd.
mybills
11-01-2007, 02:30 PM
Nothing to say other than trashing JP, I see.
*crickets*
Wraith
11-01-2007, 02:43 PM
I'm not getting into QB pissing match with you.
Read it again: :shakeno:
Buffalo posted five first downs on that opening drive and it paid dividends later in the game for Buffalo's defense. The Bills defensive unit was fresh in the fourth quarter They obviously gave TE love in the first quarter, but they have completely left out the 2nd & 3rd.
This question is not aimed at you specifically but your post brought it to my mind:
What exactly is the benefit of a long drive by the offense to start a game? I don't think it's the same as a nice long drive late in the third quarter. At the beginning of the game, the defensive players are already rested. There is no recuperative benefit.
SABURZFAN
11-01-2007, 04:13 PM
Nothing to say other than trashing JP, I see.
*crickets*
Groan :down:
SABURZFAN
11-01-2007, 04:15 PM
Edwards 1st drive took 10:03 off the clock.
Losman had 3 drives of 2:17, 4:10, and 2:19 equalling 8:46.
like one poster would claim,it's apples and oranges.......
YardRat
11-01-2007, 04:57 PM
This question is not aimed at you specifically but your post brought it to my mind:
What exactly is the benefit of a long drive by the offense to start a game? I don't think it's the same as a nice long drive late in the third quarter. At the beginning of the game, the defensive players are already rested. There is no recuperative benefit.
I agree a third quarter long drive is more beneficial than the first drive of the game, but it doesn't mean it isn't beneficial at all. Time not spent on the field running your ass off is time not on the field, and it all matters in the long run.
realdealryan
11-01-2007, 08:03 PM
if they were so fresh, why was Ryan Neill playing DE on the Jets' final drive?
We were up by 2 scores.
OpIv37
11-01-2007, 08:23 PM
We were up by 2 scores.
after denver and dallas our coaches shouldn't be taking chances like that... not to mention with the money Kelsay and Schobel are making, a full game isn't too much to ask.
I'm going to have to groan you too mybills. All you seem to do is run around posting crap that is supposed to poke at the perfomance of TE with total ignorace. Considering the point of the article which two and a half minute drive are they supposed to be showing JP the love for? And keep your BS "all I said was..." responses to yourself welcome to my ignore list.
Attack the post, NOT the poster. Thanks ~CG
The last buffalo fan
11-01-2007, 09:21 PM
Same problem happens with the Colts D, when Manning goes for the long TDs. We had points in two out of three Jp's drives. What's the point here?
mybills
11-02-2007, 05:35 AM
I'm going to have to groan you too mybills. All you seem to do is run around posting crap that is supposed to poke at the perfomance of TE with total ignorace. Considering the point of the article which two and a half minute drive are they supposed to be showing JP the love for? And keep your BS "all I said was..." responses to yourself welcome to my ignore list.
Attack the post, NOT the poster. Thanks ~CG
Again, this has nothing to do with TE. I was curious why the writer went from the 1st to the 4th and no mention of the 2nd or 3rd. Do you have anything to add about the 2nd or 3rd quarters, like what the writer should have added?
YardRat
11-02-2007, 05:42 AM
Because the long drive in the first had an effect on the events of the fourth. Why is that so hard to understand?
mybills
11-02-2007, 05:48 AM
Somebody please close this thread. The hate is too strong.
:sadwalk:
Again, this has nothing to do with TE. I was curious why the writer went from the 1st to the 4th and no mention of the 2nd or 3rd. Do you have anything to add about the 2nd or 3rd quarters, like what the writer should have added?
no, why should I? The whole thesis of the article is that the first drive taking ten minutes was beneficial for the defense. You only see it as a bash on JP. All the writer is saying is sustained drives help the defense throughout the game. Talk about the hate being strong! Just watch and see what happens this weekend. TE has kept this crappy team in games. you'll be crawling into a cave soon.
G. Host
11-02-2007, 07:55 AM
if they were so fresh, why was Ryan Neill playing DE on the Jets' final drive?
Because they rotate their DEs in their scheme because they want them to go all out. You may not like the scheme but that is the one they play.
OpIv37
11-02-2007, 08:17 AM
Because they rotate their DEs in their scheme because they want them to go all out. You may not like the scheme but that is the one they play.
it's ridiculous.
Long snappers playing DE because we have no other DE's is not a winning strategy. In fact, it's counter productive to a defensive scheme that relies on pressure from the front four. Think of how ridiculous this would be for other positions. "Oh, 2 min left and we're down by 3- put in Hamden because JP needs a breather. And what's Evans doing out there? Keep him fresh and get Freddie Jackson in at WR for a few plays."
it's ridiculous.
Long snappers playing DE because we have no other DE's is not a winning strategy. In fact, it's counter productive to a defensive scheme that relies on pressure from the front four. Think of how ridiculous this would be for other positions. "Oh, 2 min left and we're down by 3- put in Hamden because JP needs a breather. And what's Evans doing out there? Keep him fresh and get Freddie Jackson in at WR for a few plays."
at some point you have to give the coaches a chance they see more and know more than we do. The whole management staff said all through the offseason and training camp they are going to be rotating people a lot to keep them fresh on every play. It kind of makes sense to me...you lose some veterans and are going to have to try and play in the NFL with very young players against veterans on the other side of the ball...you hope that 100% of your young defense can compensate a bit by playing against 85% veteran effort because they are playing more. Our defense has been playing OK and has been able to take advanatage of some opportunities I don't think it's that unit we should be complaining about.
OpIv37
11-02-2007, 10:23 AM
at some point you have to give the coaches a chance they see more and know more than we do. The whole management staff said all through the offseason and training camp they are going to be rotating people a lot to keep them fresh on every play. It kind of makes sense to me...you lose some veterans and are going to have to try and play in the NFL with very young players against veterans on the other side of the ball...you hope that 100% of your young defense can compensate a bit by playing against 85% veteran effort because they are playing more. Our defense has been playing OK and has been able to take advanatage of some opportunities I don't think it's that unit we should be complaining about.
yeah well here's a thought: rotate EARLIER in the game so you can have your best players on the field when it means the most. You see it with RB's all the time- teams will underuse their "feature back" in the 3rd quarter so he's fresh for the 4th. That makes more sense than burning out Kelsay and Schobel early and playing Ryan Neill at crunch time. I'm no huge fan of the way Kelsay and Schobel have played this year, but they're still better than Neill.
justasportsfan
11-02-2007, 10:31 AM
Under the dink and dunk our best offense is our defense. Our passing game has become a clock controller and not a scoring threat.
So while we run up the clock (which should've been the running games job) , we have to hope that our D can catch a break and score some points to win the game while trying to stop O's from scoring at the same time.
I just hope TE can find that long range connection with any wr soon on a consistent basis. We're not going anywhere this way unless our D will be as good as the ravens sb D .
Wys Guy
11-02-2007, 10:40 AM
if they were so fresh, why was Ryan Neill playing DE on the Jets' final drive?
Probably because it's in our brain trust's plans to use 6 or 7 players to fill one position that one most teams is handled by two.
mybills
11-02-2007, 12:41 PM
You only see it as a bash on JP.
:coocoo:
mybills
11-02-2007, 12:42 PM
it's ridiculous.
Long snappers playing DE because we have no other DE's is not a winning strategy. In fact, it's counter productive to a defensive scheme that relies on pressure from the front four. Think of how ridiculous this would be for other positions. "Oh, 2 min left and we're down by 3- put in Hamden because JP needs a breather. And what's Evans doing out there? Keep him fresh and get Freddie Jackson in at WR for a few plays."
Thank you for staying on topic. :10: :posrep:
Under the dink and dunk our best offense is our defense. Our passing game has become a clock controller and not a scoring threat.
So while we run up the clock (which should've been the running games job) , we have to hope that our D can catch a break and score some points to win the game while trying to stop O's from scoring at the same time.
I just hope TE can find that long range connection with any wr soon on a consistent basis. We're not going anywhere this way unless our D will be as good as the ravens sb D .
I disagree. The problem we have is we don't have the personel to score in the red zone not the play of the QB...so we're stuck scoring on low percentage plays like bombs. I just can't understand how people who watch football can't understand this. Scoring on bombs costs us five other downs on the plays that don't work. We need to be scoring and not wasting downs. You're just blind to the difference between someone who can actually work the team in a way to move down field and someone who only once and a great while can get downfield and only in one way.
Under the dink and dunk our best offense is our defense. Our passing game has become a clock controller and not a scoring threat.
So while we run up the clock (which should've been the running games job) , we have to hope that our D can catch a break and score some points to win the game while trying to stop O's from scoring at the same time.
I just hope TE can find that long range connection with any wr soon on a consistent basis. We're not going anywhere this way unless our D will be as good as the ravens sb D .
I disagree. The problem we have is we don't have the personel to score in the red zone not the play of the QB...so we're stuck scoring on low percentage plays like bombs. I just can't understand how people who watch football can't understand this. Scoring on bombs costs us five other downs on the plays that don't work. We need to be scoring and not wasting downs. You're just blind to the difference between someone who can actually work the team in a way to move down field and someone who only once and a great while can get downfield and only in one way.
and I really think that reference to the "dink and dunk" is what fires a lot of people up. It's rediculous and a function of the gameplan not the QB. TE has thrown downfield and been successful doing so. The difference is when that was part of the gameplan he was succesful at that and chunking down the field and moving the team where JP only can throw the bomb and can't execute a chunking gameplan when that's what's required to beat a good team like the PATS. THATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE GUYS. TE DOES EVERYTHING AND JP IS LIMITED. Every expert and media person says TE has a great arm as demonstrated in camp and practice. We've all seem him throw the ball downfield with more accuracy than JP (ie. consistent good passes instead of two over the head, two short and one in a place where our guy might catch it). So get off this dink and dunk crap you look like an idiot.
justasportsfan
11-02-2007, 02:39 PM
I disagree. The problem we have is we don't have the personel to score in the red zone not the play of the QB...so we're stuck scoring on low percentage plays like bombs. I just can't understand how people who watch football can't understand this. Scoring on bombs costs us five other downs on the plays that don't work. We need to be scoring and not wasting downs. You're just blind to the difference between someone who can actually work the team in a way to move down field and someone who only once and a great while can get downfield and only in one way.
Are you telling me that the coaches chose go back to a LESS THAN Holcomblike game performnace with Trent? they might as well given the job to Holcomb over JP. At Least Holcomb can score and doesn't turn the ball in crunch time as often as TE.
IMO, going with Trent NOW is not Dicks choice. Remember how JP wasn't made to auduble much last year. The long bombs were Fairchilds choice and not because JP can't do it. He didn't have a problem checking down last year.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?game_id=29026&displayPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2006&week=REG12
I can pull out more play by plays if you want to prove that JP can checkdown and has been doing it. Remember the come from behind win? JP checkdowned to A_train all the way to win the game .
OUR D
TOP is also the D's responsibility. They also have to stops O's from running on them which they didn't do last year. It's wasn't only the O's fault last year although Willis' lack of effort comes into play when losing TOP.
IMO checking down is Fairchilds way of getting the ball out from the rookies hand quick. It's designed once again to develop the rookie. No one in their right mind realizes that we're winning because of checkdowns. IMO TOP is a result of trying to deveop Trent. Even the blind can see that our D is winning games for us. Something they couldn't do last year because they were one of the worse against the run.
NO team has dinked and dunked its way to winning a sb unless you have the ravens sb D or the Bucs sb D.
THE LEAGUES TOP 2 TEAMS
INDY
How is it that they are not the worse team at stopping the run this year when they lost several lbs to FA'cy last year? Their O is helping the D out by running Addai more often and successfully . Not because Manning dinks and dunks all game.
PATRIOTS
YOu cannot tell me that the Pats brought in Welker and Moss to control TOP. It's the opposite, Brady is playing his best year so far because he's connecting deep more often because of Moss. They are hardly perfect passes but Moss can jump and win against triple coverages. He is also aided by a runnng game that controls TOP. We don't have that.
TOP is both the responsibility of both the D and O.
Are you telling me that the coaches chose go back to a LESS THAN Holcomblike game performnace with Trent?
yep.
IMO checking down is Fairchilds way of getting the ball out from the rookies hand quick. It's designed once again to develop the rookie. No one in their right mind realizes that we're winning because of checkdowns. IMO TOP is a result of trying to deveop Trent. Even the blind can see that our D is winning games for us. Something they couldn't do last year because they were one of the worse against the run.
exactly. And since TE was developing in front of their eyes, as opposed to just stagnating and doing nothing, they just went with him. and since the TOP was working for them it just helped them make the decision.
NO team has dinked and dunked its way to winning a sb unless you have the ravens sb D or the Bucs sb D.
no one is claiming this team is going to win the sb by throwing 5 yard passes. But the team is doing better with TE in there. We are getting consistent first downs and moving the football. I haven't seen us do that in a few years. We need to do that and we need to score in the red zone. That's the only thing that's been missing to shut everyone up. It will come. TE has done more in six months than JP did in 36 when he was supposedly "still a rookie". TE has also started to throw the ball downfield. I guess the difference is JP's priority is throwing the bomb and TEs priority is getting first downs. With TE it's throwing the bomb but not at the cost of getting first downs. With JP it's throwing the bomb at all costs. And the other thing is when JP has a bad series or something bad happens he tanks...
and the frustrating part to read all the time, hence this thread, is that when JP is sitting on the bench in three or four years somewhere or watching the games from home people are still going to be saying "if only mularkey hadn't screwed him up" or "if only the media treated him better" which is a load of crap. The onus for JPs performance is on JP unless you are a member of the JPLC. It's just another pile of crap brought here wastefully by TD that had some promise but could never live up to it because the brain wasn't into it.
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