OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

[Wys Guy]

Here are our OL stats through week 8:

Rank	Team	Rush	Yds	Avg	Left	LYd	LAv	Middle	MYd	MAv	Right	RYd	RAv	Sck
21	Bills	195	702	3.6	74	219	3	47	143	3	17	48	2.8	16

Considering that the only major strides towards improvements that this team made with veterans from free agency, vets that were either regarded as good (Dockery) or sold to us as good (Langston Walker), and considering that the latter two weigh 330 and 370 lbs. respectively, and considering that we shelled out a not-so-small fortune to acquire them, this is incredibly indicting of this team's management and leadership.

Meanwhile, on the left side, where were supposed to be bulldozering teams over, we're ranked tied for 27th with the Texans mighty rushing offense at 3.0 ypc.

UTM, we're ranked 20th, WOA!, and ahead of the Ravens and Willis "Fred Astaire" McGahee.

On the right we're ranked 29th at 2.8 ypc being powered behind that great FAcy find Langston Walker who Levy and Jauron stated that they "see something that others don't see."

Right! They're seeing quite a few things that others don't see. Perhaps that's part of the problem in Buffalo.

Part mind you.

Regardless, that's the Bills "big hurrah" in changes this season. Impressive? Hardly. In fact, a regression over last season.

So what does that say for Lynch? Personally I think that Lynch is much better than McGahee. But his stats aren't.

So which is it, our line sucks even worse than it did w/ McGahee and Thomas rushing? Or Lynch really isn't that good? Or a combo of the two? Or is it something having to do with the OL coaching and offensive "coordinating" which is really uncoordinating in my view?

I dismiss the one that says that Lynch isn't that good. But I could be wrong I suppose although visually there is little to suggest that I am.

Either way, let's hear it from those of you that really think that Levy and Dick, the Ivy League Dynamic Duo, actually have a plan.

If they do, this was certainly the first phase of it after a "We don't know what the hell we're doing or want to" do inaugeral season.

The bottom line is that they've failed miserably in terms of addressing both lines.

[LtBillsFan66]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

I think TD set this team back years. As much as fans hate the term rebuilding (including me!), I think Marv has this team heading in the right direction. No one honestly expected a lot from the Bills. Even the homers. Some of their posts were sarcastic.

[LtBillsFan66]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

Let me add that although it pains me to see the team struggle, I enjoy watching them compete. The Bills "marketing machine" hasn't "tricked" me into supporting them...

[Mr. Miyagi]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

Like the florist.....FTD!

[billsburgh]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

McNally must go.

[OpIv37]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

Marv could go either way, but is there anyone left who still thinks Jauron knows what he's doing?

[Billz_fan]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

Not sure about Marv right now. I groaned when they hired Dick, been graoning ever since.

Still I pin this on Ralph, he just will not spend any money to get a proven head coach. He doesn't mind paying players but he just skimps on coaches.

[trapezeus]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

the team is in pretty good shape. i think they trust that peters and dockery are going to gel. no one expected it to take less than a year. and knock on wood, they get to play without injury. there are some good OL youth on our team. And now, they are all signed to be hear. no more one year two year deals on gandy and villarial. we have bigger better guys. next year is the year to cast judgement on the line.

Lynch has earned every yard he's gotten. i'm not worried about him. hopefully, he'll get to have some finesse runs once the line gels.

the team can focuson getting some TE,WR for next year.

on the defensive side, i think they have shown they worked a pretty good system. if they can find above average talent to insert into the system, they could be dominant by next year.

Everyone is seeing 2008 as a break out year. we were all saying that in the preseason too. so patience needs to be exercised until next year before we throw these guys out.

[Mahdi]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

As its stands now and has been since the season started, we dont have a passing game. Why would any team allow us to run on them? Every team we have played has stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys, of course our rushing game isnt there. When we prove we can air it out then the run will open up.

[Mitchy moo]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

As its stands now and has been since the season started, we dont have a passing game. Why would any team allow us to run on them? Every team we have played has stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys, of course our rushing game isnt there. When we prove we can air it out then the run will open up.

Bingo, this is the problem. Our opponents play 15 yards and in waiting for us to make a move. If we throw 50 yards bombs, they back way up and we have a better running game. Box stacked = lower YPC.

[Wys Guy]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

the team is in pretty good shape. i think they trust that peters and dockery are going to gel. no one expected it to take less than a year.

Lynch has earned every yard he's gotten. i'm not worried about him. hopefully, he'll get to have some finesse runs once the line gels.

the team can focuson getting some TE,WR for next year.

on the defensive side, i think they have shown they worked a pretty good system. if they can find above average talent to insert into the system, they could be dominant by next year.

Everyone is seeing 2008 as a break out year. we were all saying that in the preseason too. so patience needs to be exercised until next year before we throw these guys out.

It's progress that you need to look at trapezeus. You implicitly contradict yourself here. If Lynch has "earned every yard that he's gotten," and I fully agree, then what does that say for the line given our well below average all but bottom-dwelling output in yards-per-carry? Keep in mind that it's actually gotten worse from last season, after their supposed "upgrades," at least one of which I vehemently contended would be a sheer and utter downgrade and have been proven completely correct to their having been completely wrong. Few even argue that today.

Also, Dockery is mid prime and at an age where he'll never be much better. Peters is in his fourth season. "Gelling" is one thing, but these two given the hype, even w/o much "gelling" should at least be average. Yet they're, again, near bottom dwelling status. Rookies take time to gel, not two vets in or near their prime moving upwards in that regard.

I don't think the team can focus on TE and WR next year. IMO they have to keep focusing on the OL and DL until they get some good ones. Right now they both suck. And Schobel and his weight loss combined with his now being past prime will need to be looked at replacing over the next couple of seasons too. Take him out of the DL and what have we got? Scary.

Problem is, is the "problem" or the OC and OL coach? I'm not sure which frankly. I/we know that he coaches are, but how good are Dockery and Peters really after watching them this season?

As its stands now and has been since the season started, we dont have a passing game. Why would any team allow us to run on them? Every team we have played has stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys, of course our rushing game isnt there. When we prove we can air it out then the run will open up.

Bingo, this is the problem. Our opponents play 15 yards and in waiting for us to make a move. If we throw 50 yards bombs, they back way up and we have a better running game. Box stacked = lower YPC.

Why hasn't our passing game been better then?

Fine, perhaps you two support Edwards, but as a rookie who when you extrapolate his four games starts of stats, he's on pace for:

4 TDs and 16 INTs and 32 sacks over the course of a 16-game season, argue as you may. Even for a rookie that blows chunks. Heath Shuler had a far better rookie season.

And frankly, two of those starts featured the Jets defense that you've all made fun of here and which sucks.

Those sacks stats may not appear too bad, but when you consider that this offense has been designed around getting rid of the ball quickly, and does, whether or not that always helps the team being a different issue altogether, then it's not good.

You may also cite Edwards ratings. But we know the deal there. They're built entirely on his completion percentage in a game and game-plans built around the high-percentage passing game. Nothing else. Remove that and you'd see that rating drop like a ton of bricks.

I would argue that some of the play of the passing game, Edwards or JP, has a lot to do with the OL. Call me crazy.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

I'm still trying to figure out a way to neg somebody who's on my ignore list.

[mchurchfie]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

I think a huge part of it is Mouse and Fairchild. Mouse has had several prospects on the line and has yet to produce an even average OL. Fairchild's formations, tendencies, and unimaginative playcalling pretty much give the run away to defenses. Plus the fact that he almost exclusively runs over the left side which defenses stack up against.

[Mahdi]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

It's progress that you need to look at trapezeus. You implicitly contradict yourself here. If Lynch has "earned every yard that he's gotten," and I fully agree, then what does that say for the line given our well below average all but bottom-dwelling output in yards-per-carry? Keep in mind that it's actually gotten worse from last season, after their supposed "upgrades," at least one of which I vehemently contended would be a sheer and utter downgrade and have been proven completely correct to their having been completely wrong. Few even argue that today.

Also, Dockery is mid prime and at an age where he'll never be much better. Peters is in his fourth season. "Gelling" is one thing, but these two given the hype, even w/o much "gelling" should at least be average. Yet they're, again, near bottom dwelling status. Rookies take time to gel, not two vets in or near their prime moving upwards in that regard.

I don't think the team can focus on TE and WR next year. IMO they have to keep focusing on the OL and DL until they get some good ones. Right now they both suck. And Schobel and his weight loss combined with his now being past prime will need to be looked at replacing over the next couple of seasons too. Take him out of the DL and what have we got? Scary.

Problem is, is the "problem" or the OC and OL coach? I'm not sure which frankly. I/we know that he coaches are, but how good are Dockery and Peters really after watching them this season?






Why hasn't our passing game been better then?

Fine, perhaps you two support Edwards, but as a rookie who when you extrapolate his four games starts of stats, he's on pace for:

4 TDs and 16 INTs and 32 sacks over the course of a 16-game season, argue as you may. Even for a rookie that blows chunks. Heath Shuler had a far better rookie season.

And frankly, two of those starts featured the Jets defense that you've all made fun of here and which sucks.

Those sacks stats may not appear too bad, but when you consider that this offense has been designed around getting rid of the ball quickly, and does, whether or not that always helps the team being a different issue altogether, then it's not good.

You may also cite Edwards ratings. But we know the deal there. They're built entirely on his completion percentage in a game and game-plans built around the high-percentage passing game. Nothing else. Remove that and you'd see that rating drop like a ton of bricks.

I would argue that some of the play of the passing game, Edwards or JP, has a lot to do with the OL. Call me crazy.

Who ever said I support Edwards? I support whoever is under center. This has nothing to do with who is playing QB. Our passing game has been weak no matter who was playing and that is the reason our running game is suffering. How about you watch the tape of the games and watch Peters and Dockery only. If you do that you will see that they dominate on every play. But even with that the run game suffers because the opposing D brings way too many guys to block. The only weak links on this line are Fowler and Butler. Fowler is getting blown up sometimes because again theres just too much traffic at the LOS. Butler is actually doing well but has a mental mistake or two on run block assignments every now and then. And Walker has been playing great, focus on him as well and you will see that.

[trapezeus]

Re: OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

wys guy, i think getting more OL people is not going to help. yes, maybe Mcnally sucks. living in NYC, i remember how much giant fans hated their line when he was here.\

but its nice to have guys that we think can work here long term instead of having one year replacements. i think we just keep the line as it is and let it gel. if we need a new OL coach at the end of the season, then so be it. but we finally have stability at OL on the left side, and walker isn't that bad. he doesn't take horrible penalties, he's a good pass blocker, then can't establish long runs with so much stacked against the run.