OK, This is for those that think that Levy and Dick Know what they're doing;

[Wys Guy]

Here are our OL stats through week 8:

<TABLE borderColor=#0c1801 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=552 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width="7%" height=16>
Rank


</TD><TD width="8%" height=16>
Team


</TD><TD width="7%" height=16>
Rush


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
Yds


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
Avg


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
Left


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
LYd


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
LAv


</TD><TD width="10%" height=16>
Middle


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
MYd


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
MAv


</TD><TD width="8%" height=16>
Right


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
RYd


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
RAv


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
Sck


</TD></TR><TR><TD width="7%" height=16>
21


</TD><TD width="8%" height=16>
Bills


</TD><TD width="7%" height=16>
195


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
702


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
3.6


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
74


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
219


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
3


</TD><TD width="10%" height=16>
47


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
143


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
3


</TD><TD width="8%" height=16>
17


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
48


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
2.8


</TD><TD width="6%" height=16>
16


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Considering that the only major strides towards improvements that this team made with veterans from free agency, vets that were either regarded as good (Dockery) or sold to us as good (Langston Walker), and considering that the latter two weigh 330 and 370 lbs. respectively, and considering that we shelled out a not-so-small fortune to acquire them, this is incredibly indicting of this team's management and leadership.

Meanwhile, on the left side, where were supposed to be bulldozering teams over, we're ranked tied for 27th with the Texans mighty rushing offense at 3.0 ypc.

UTM, we're ranked 20th, WOA!, and ahead of the Ravens and Willis "Fred Astaire" McGahee.

On the right we're ranked 29th at 2.8 ypc being powered behind that great FAcy find Langston Walker who Levy and Jauron stated that they "see something that others don't see."

Right! They're seeing quite a few things that others don't see. Perhaps that's part of the problem in Buffalo.

Part mind you.

Regardless, that's the Bills "big hurrah" in changes this season. Impressive? Hardly. In fact, a regression over last season.

So what does that say for Lynch? Personally I think that Lynch is much better than McGahee. But his stats aren't.

So which is it, our line sucks even worse than it did w/ McGahee and Thomas rushing? Or Lynch really isn't that good? Or a combo of the two? Or is it something having to do with the OL coaching and offensive "coordinating" which is really uncoordinating in my view?

I dismiss the one that says that Lynch isn't that good. But I could be wrong I suppose although visually there is little to suggest that I am.

Either way, let's hear it from those of you that really think that Levy and Dick, the Ivy League Dynamic Duo, actually have a plan.

If they do, this was certainly the first phase of it after a "We don't know what the hell we're doing or want to" do inaugeral season.

The bottom line is that they've failed miserably in terms of addressing both lines.

[LtBillsFan66]

I think TD set this team back years. As much as fans hate the term rebuilding (including me!), I think Marv has this team heading in the right direction. No one honestly expected a lot from the Bills. Even the homers. Some of their posts were sarcastic.

[LtBillsFan66]

Let me add that although it pains me to see the team struggle, I enjoy watching them compete. The Bills "marketing machine" hasn't "tricked" me into supporting them...

[Mr. Miyagi]

Like the florist.....FTD!

[billsburgh]

McNally must go.

[OpIv37]

Marv could go either way, but is there anyone left who still thinks Jauron knows what he's doing?

[Billz_fan]

Not sure about Marv right now. I groaned when they hired Dick, been graoning ever since.

Still I pin this on Ralph, he just will not spend any money to get a proven head coach. He doesn't mind paying players but he just skimps on coaches.

[trapezeus]

the team is in pretty good shape. i think they trust that peters and dockery are going to gel. no one expected it to take less than a year. and knock on wood, they get to play without injury. there are some good OL youth on our team. And now, they are all signed to be hear. no more one year two year deals on gandy and villarial. we have bigger better guys. next year is the year to cast judgement on the line.

Lynch has earned every yard he's gotten. i'm not worried about him. hopefully, he'll get to have some finesse runs once the line gels.

the team can focuson getting some TE,WR for next year.

on the defensive side, i think they have shown they worked a pretty good system. if they can find above average talent to insert into the system, they could be dominant by next year.

Everyone is seeing 2008 as a break out year. we were all saying that in the preseason too. so patience needs to be exercised until next year before we throw these guys out.

[Mahdi]

As its stands now and has been since the season started, we dont have a passing game. Why would any team allow us to run on them? Every team we have played has stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys, of course our rushing game isnt there. When we prove we can air it out then the run will open up.

[Mitchy moo]

As its stands now and has been since the season started, we dont have a passing game. Why would any team allow us to run on them? Every team we have played has stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys, of course our rushing game isnt there. When we prove we can air it out then the run will open up.

Bingo, this is the problem. Our opponents play 15 yards and in waiting for us to make a move. If we throw 50 yards bombs, they back way up and we have a better running game. Box stacked = lower YPC.

[Wys Guy]

the team is in pretty good shape. i think they trust that peters and dockery are going to gel. no one expected it to take less than a year.

Lynch has earned every yard he's gotten. i'm not worried about him. hopefully, he'll get to have some finesse runs once the line gels.

the team can focuson getting some TE,WR for next year.

on the defensive side, i think they have shown they worked a pretty good system. if they can find above average talent to insert into the system, they could be dominant by next year.

Everyone is seeing 2008 as a break out year. we were all saying that in the preseason too. so patience needs to be exercised until next year before we throw these guys out.

It's progress that you need to look at trapezeus. You implicitly contradict yourself here. If Lynch has "earned every yard that he's gotten," and I fully agree, then what does that say for the line given our well below average all but bottom-dwelling output in yards-per-carry? Keep in mind that it's actually gotten worse from last season, after their supposed "upgrades," at least one of which I vehemently contended would be a sheer and utter downgrade and have been proven completely correct to their having been completely wrong. Few even argue that today.

Also, Dockery is mid prime and at an age where he'll never be much better. Peters is in his fourth season. "Gelling" is one thing, but these two given the hype, even w/o much "gelling" should at least be average. Yet they're, again, near bottom dwelling status. Rookies take time to gel, not two vets in or near their prime moving upwards in that regard.

I don't think the team can focus on TE and WR next year. IMO they have to keep focusing on the OL and DL until they get some good ones. Right now they both suck. And Schobel and his weight loss combined with his now being past prime will need to be looked at replacing over the next couple of seasons too. Take him out of the DL and what have we got? Scary.

Problem is, is the "problem" or the OC and OL coach? I'm not sure which frankly. I/we know that he coaches are, but how good are Dockery and Peters really after watching them this season?



As its stands now and has been since the season started, we dont have a passing game. Why would any team allow us to run on them? Every team we have played has stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys, of course our rushing game isnt there. When we prove we can air it out then the run will open up.


Bingo, this is the problem. Our opponents play 15 yards and in waiting for us to make a move. If we throw 50 yards bombs, they back way up and we have a better running game. Box stacked = lower YPC.

Why hasn't our passing game been better then?

Fine, perhaps you two support Edwards, but as a rookie who when you extrapolate his four games starts of stats, he's on pace for:

4 TDs and 16 INTs and 32 sacks over the course of a 16-game season, argue as you may. Even for a rookie that blows chunks. Heath Shuler had a far better rookie season.

And frankly, two of those starts featured the Jets defense that you've all made fun of here and which sucks.

Those sacks stats may not appear too bad, but when you consider that this offense has been designed around getting rid of the ball quickly, and does, whether or not that always helps the team being a different issue altogether, then it's not good.

You may also cite Edwards ratings. But we know the deal there. They're built entirely on his completion percentage in a game and game-plans built around the high-percentage passing game. Nothing else. Remove that and you'd see that rating drop like a ton of bricks.

I would argue that some of the play of the passing game, Edwards or JP, has a lot to do with the OL. Call me crazy.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'm still trying to figure out a way to neg somebody who's on my ignore list.

[mchurchfie]

I think a huge part of it is Mouse and Fairchild. Mouse has had several prospects on the line and has yet to produce an even average OL. Fairchild's formations, tendencies, and unimaginative playcalling pretty much give the run away to defenses. Plus the fact that he almost exclusively runs over the left side which defenses stack up against.

[Mahdi]

It's progress that you need to look at trapezeus. You implicitly contradict yourself here. If Lynch has "earned every yard that he's gotten," and I fully agree, then what does that say for the line given our well below average all but bottom-dwelling output in yards-per-carry? Keep in mind that it's actually gotten worse from last season, after their supposed "upgrades," at least one of which I vehemently contended would be a sheer and utter downgrade and have been proven completely correct to their having been completely wrong. Few even argue that today.

Also, Dockery is mid prime and at an age where he'll never be much better. Peters is in his fourth season. "Gelling" is one thing, but these two given the hype, even w/o much "gelling" should at least be average. Yet they're, again, near bottom dwelling status. Rookies take time to gel, not two vets in or near their prime moving upwards in that regard.

I don't think the team can focus on TE and WR next year. IMO they have to keep focusing on the OL and DL until they get some good ones. Right now they both suck. And Schobel and his weight loss combined with his now being past prime will need to be looked at replacing over the next couple of seasons too. Take him out of the DL and what have we got? Scary.

Problem is, is the "problem" or the OC and OL coach? I'm not sure which frankly. I/we know that he coaches are, but how good are Dockery and Peters really after watching them this season?






Why hasn't our passing game been better then?

Fine, perhaps you two support Edwards, but as a rookie who when you extrapolate his four games starts of stats, he's on pace for:

4 TDs and 16 INTs and 32 sacks over the course of a 16-game season, argue as you may. Even for a rookie that blows chunks. Heath Shuler had a far better rookie season.

And frankly, two of those starts featured the Jets defense that you've all made fun of here and which sucks.

Those sacks stats may not appear too bad, but when you consider that this offense has been designed around getting rid of the ball quickly, and does, whether or not that always helps the team being a different issue altogether, then it's not good.

You may also cite Edwards ratings. But we know the deal there. They're built entirely on his completion percentage in a game and game-plans built around the high-percentage passing game. Nothing else. Remove that and you'd see that rating drop like a ton of bricks.

I would argue that some of the play of the passing game, Edwards or JP, has a lot to do with the OL. Call me crazy.
Who ever said I support Edwards? I support whoever is under center. This has nothing to do with who is playing QB. Our passing game has been weak no matter who was playing and that is the reason our running game is suffering. How about you watch the tape of the games and watch Peters and Dockery only. If you do that you will see that they dominate on every play. But even with that the run game suffers because the opposing D brings way too many guys to block. The only weak links on this line are Fowler and Butler. Fowler is getting blown up sometimes because again theres just too much traffic at the LOS. Butler is actually doing well but has a mental mistake or two on run block assignments every now and then. And Walker has been playing great, focus on him as well and you will see that.

[trapezeus]

wys guy, i think getting more OL people is not going to help. yes, maybe Mcnally sucks. living in NYC, i remember how much giant fans hated their line when he was here.\

but its nice to have guys that we think can work here long term instead of having one year replacements. i think we just keep the line as it is and let it gel. if we need a new OL coach at the end of the season, then so be it. but we finally have stability at OL on the left side, and walker isn't that bad. he doesn't take horrible penalties, he's a good pass blocker, then can't establish long runs with so much stacked against the run.

[YardRat]

How does a left average of 3, a right average of 2.8, and a middle average of 3 account for a total average of 3.6??

[HHURRICANE]

When this team gets real WRs than everything else will gel. Until than expect more of the same.

It's like buying a Canary and expecting it to talk like a Parrot.

Not happening.

[acehole]

I think TD set this team back years. As much as fans hate the term rebuilding (including me!), I think Marv has this team heading in the right direction. No one honestly expected a lot from the Bills. Even the homers. Some of their posts were sarcastic.

We are not the only one who know the runs come on J Petters side. Deffenses tend to favor that side. We really need a RG ONE THAT CAN PULL PREFERABLY. In the o-lines deffense there is somthing called "time to gell". I would think at this piont of the season if that is going to materialize...now whould be that time and against that deffense it really should. Dont want to beat the fairchild horse any more but I have not seen any play action..or delay handoff to much. We allways seem to project our plays..I saw it all game during the jets calling them from the bleachers. We just seem to want to line up and force the issue and hit them in the mouth. Which is fine as that is why we spent so much money...but they do need to "Scheme" a bit more. The long to intermediate pass can also go along way to bringing those safties back a bit....but without the playaction the pass that sets up that run that running game isnt really materilizing. Hitting those TE's in the seam can pull the linebacker back as well.....we dont see too much of that either. We know we outclass the bengals on deffense let see if we can outcoach them.

[EDS]

As its stands now and has been since the season started, we dont have a passing game. Why would any team allow us to run on them? Every team we have played has stacked the box with 8 or 9 guys, of course our rushing game isnt there. When we prove we can air it out then the run will open up.

How come teams with equally bad QB play have been able to run effectively? Brown ran wild in Miami before being injured despite some awful QB play. Same goes for Peterson and the Vikes and a few different running backs in Tennessee. Even Oakland is running more effectively despite subpar play by Dante.

[patmoran2006]

Who ever said I support Edwards? I support whoever is under center. This has nothing to do with who is playing QB. Our passing game has been weak no matter who was playing and that is the reason our running game is suffering. How about you watch the tape of the games and watch Peters and Dockery only. If you do that you will see that they dominate on every play. But even with that the run game suffers because the opposing D brings way too many guys to block. The only weak links on this line are Fowler and Butler. Fowler is getting blown up sometimes because again theres just too much traffic at the LOS. Butler is actually doing well but has a mental mistake or two on run block assignments every now and then. And Walker has been playing great, focus on him as well and you will see that.
I think you're right on some fronts and wrong on others, and I've been taping every game and watching every run play this year over and over again.

I agree with you that it has little to do with our QB (the run game suffering). I think it has more to do with blocking assignments getting missed left and right (McNally?) and bad play calling (Fairchild). Better WR's that can get open more consistently will help the running game a lot. Even Evans doesn't consistently get open.

As for the line itself. Your basically saying Peters, Dockery and WAlker have been "great". Well, if 3/5 of our OL is great, and we have a beast at RB, then why is the RB game so weak?

The reality is, the OL has been pretty f'n awful this season. Dockery has made a TON of mental mistakes (aka missed blocks). These fat slobs RARELY get to the second level to hit a LB or safety. Your on the money with Fowler, and Butler to this point is just plain bad.

But Peters has been "OK" this year, but far from a Pro Bowl player... Walker makes some nice blocks and then decides to take 2-3 plays off at a time. Did you see our fumble Sunday against the Jets on that running play? Walker was like 6 yards BEHIND the line of scrimmage on a running play. To me, he's very little if none better than what we had last year in Pennington.

However, with Peters and Dock' I do see some gel'ing coming in the future and I think they'll be fine. We're kinda stuck with Walker for a few years (thanks Marv)-- but Butler and Fowler have GOT to go.

[patmoran2006]

BTW.. You gotta take it for what it is.

We have a rookie QB and a rookie RB..not to mention no real WR threat other than Evans... teams are STACKING up on the run against us.

And we have THREE new starters on the line and an overmatched center. Did you or anyone EXPECT us to be near the top of the league in rushing?

If we get a better center and RG here next year, we'll be among the league's best

[Mahdi]

How come teams with equally bad QB play have been able to run effectively? Brown ran wild in Miami before being injured despite some awful QB play. Same goes for Peterson and the Vikes and a few different running backs in Tennessee. Even Oakland is running more effectively despite subpar play by Dante.
Honestly,,,, no idea,,,, all I know is that when I watch the tape of the Bills game I see that theres no way Lynch can go anywhere even if the play is perfectly blocked. It seems as though they have everyone at the LOS. If anyone has the Dallas game still on tape you should watch it cause its a perfect example.

[Mahdi]

I think you're right on some fronts and wrong on others, and I've been taping every game and watching every run play this year over and over again.

I agree with you that it has little to do with our QB (the run game suffering). I think it has more to do with blocking assignments getting missed left and right (McNally?) and bad play calling (Fairchild). Better WR's that can get open more consistently will help the running game a lot. Even Evans doesn't consistently get open.

As for the line itself. Your basically saying Peters, Dockery and WAlker have been "great". Well, if 3/5 of our OL is great, and we have a beast at RB, then why is the RB game so weak?

The reality is, the OL has been pretty f'n awful this season. Dockery has made a TON of mental mistakes (aka missed blocks). These fat slobs RARELY get to the second level to hit a LB or safety. Your on the money with Fowler, and Butler to this point is just plain bad.

But Peters has been "OK" this year, but far from a Pro Bowl player... Walker makes some nice blocks and then decides to take 2-3 plays off at a time. Did you see our fumble Sunday against the Jets on that running play? Walker was like 6 yards BEHIND the line of scrimmage on a running play. To me, he's very little if none better than what we had last year in Pennington.

However, with Peters and Dock' I do see some gel'ing coming in the future and I think they'll be fine. We're kinda stuck with Walker for a few years (thanks Marv)-- but Butler and Fowler have GOT to go.
We didnt fumble last week?? And I have also been watching the tape of every game and have yet to see Dockery miss a block. At least not to the extent yer claiming. Walker has been dominant in pass blocking.


Why does our run blocking suck if 3/5 OL are playing great?? Because if theres 9 guys at or very near the LOS 3 great blocks wont do much.

[patmoran2006]

Im not disagreeing with you about the main reason WHY we're not running the ball, and I agree its NOT because of Edwards (or Losman?)

IM telling you Dockery has missed plenty of blocks, Walker has been FAR from dominant in anything.. and it was a fumble, or maybe it was Lynch losing yards on a run last week; im telling you Walker was driven back LITERALLY 6 lines behind the line of scrimmage.

I still like Dockery, I think he'll be fine and only get better. Walker IMO sucks balls. SEriously, what has he done this year that min priced Terrence Pennington didnt do last year? We agree on Fowler and Butler.

But dont take the stance Im totally on a different page than you because Im not. They ARE stacking the line, and they're doing it becuase we don't take enough shots down the field.

IMO- an Edwards led offense with precise passing and MORE shots down the field than they take now would solve a lot of that. Sorry guys, I do NOT trust Losman and I dont see that changing.

[Mahdi]

Im not disagreeing with you about the main reason WHY we're not running the ball, and I agree its NOT because of Edwards (or Losman?)

IM telling you Dockery has missed plenty of blocks, Walker has been FAR from dominant in anything.. and it was a fumble, or maybe it was Lynch losing yards on a run last week; im telling you Walker was driven back LITERALLY 6 lines behind the line of scrimmage.

I still like Dockery, I think he'll be fine and only get better. Walker IMO sucks balls. SEriously, what has he done this year that min priced Terrence Pennington didnt do last year? We agree on Fowler and Butler.

But dont take the stance Im totally on a different page than you because Im not. They ARE stacking the line, and they're doing it becuase we don't take enough shots down the field.

IMO- an Edwards led offense with precise passing and MORE shots down the field than they take now would solve a lot of that. Sorry guys, I do NOT trust Losman and I dont see that changing.
Walker has been pass blocking on the edge all year against 3-4 teams without help that means he has been pass protecting against fast LBs by himself which is not easy. Pennington needed constant help from backs and TEs.

[Ingtar33]

no passing game. still, a massive hole at RG and Center (our RT is average at best); throw in the fact the play calling sucks, and we have what we have.

I think our line is light years better then last years in pass protection. the run blocking is just not there yet.

[Wys Guy]

I'm still trying to figure out a way to neg somebody who's on my ignore list.

Here's a tip, ignore somebody that's on your ignore list.

[Wys Guy]

I think a huge part of it is Mouse and Fairchild. Mouse has had several prospects on the line and has yet to produce an even average OL. Fairchild's formations, tendencies, and unimaginative playcalling pretty much give the run away to defenses. Plus the fact that he almost exclusively runs over the left side which defenses stack up against.

OK, so we know who hired "Mouse," but as I've been asking, who retained him and made him part of their ongoing effort, which just oh, by the way, wasn't rebuilding last year but is this year? I see plenty of problems inherent in that simple sentence alone.



Who ever said I support Edwards? I support whoever is under center. This has nothing to do with who is playing QB. Our passing game has been weak no matter who was playing and that is the reason our running game is suffering. How about you watch the tape of the games and watch Peters and Dockery only. If you do that you will see that they dominate on every play. But even with that the run game suffers because the opposing D brings way too many guys to block. The only weak links on this line are Fowler and Butler. Fowler is getting blown up sometimes because again theres just too much traffic at the LOS. Butler is actually doing well but has a mental mistake or two on run block assignments every now and then. And Walker has been playing great, focus on him as well and you will see that.

First of all I said perhaps you support Edwards, don't know, don't care. It's immaterial to the argument. You couldn't possibly be more wrong on Dockery and Peters. I've personally watche both get all but schooled on numerous occasions this year. Fowler is always getting blown up and did last year too. In fact, usually he doesn't even get blown up, as I pointed out as a consistent theme last year his best move is evaluating the DL-man that just blew past him seemingly w/o contact as he looks back into his own backfield. Frankly, not quite as bad this year to date, but still not far from it.

Peters and Dockery are the only two linemen on the team at present that are worth hanging onto to build a future line, yet, neither has played to anything beyond an average or perhaps average-plus level this year. Peters has been a disappointment to all that had high hopes for him and I know I did.



wys guy, i think getting more OL people is not going to help. yes, maybe Mcnally sucks. living in NYC, i remember how much giant fans hated their line when he was here.\

but its nice to have guys that we think can work here long term instead of having one year replacements. i think we just keep the line as it is and let it gel. if we need a new OL coach at the end of the season, then so be it. but we finally have stability at OL on the left side, and walker isn't that bad. he doesn't take horrible penalties, he's a good pass blocker, then can't establish long runs with so much stacked against the run.

Walker's particularly bad at pass blocking. He's top-heavy, sluggish, cannot adjust at all to DEs taking him on the edge. He's at best a double tackling sled. Agree with the rest however.

In fact, I began calling McNally's hiring out as soon as he was hired. Just as with Jauron they said he had no talent to work with. Nonsense. Either way, he's had at least marginal talent here and has only consistently gotten bottom of the barrel performance from it.



How does a left average of 3, a right average of 2.8, and a middle average of 3 account for a total average of 3.6??

I thought you knew everything YardRat! I'll allow you to chew on that one for a while. Hint: If you think Lynch is a good runner, you may be right!



BTW.. You gotta take it for what it is.

We have a rookie QB and a rookie RB..not to mention no real WR threat other than Evans... teams are STACKING up on the run against us.

And we have THREE new starters on the line and an overmatched center. Did you or anyone EXPECT us to be near the top of the league in rushing?

If we get a better center and RG here next year, we'll be among the league's best

Yeah, some people here for sure certainly did expect us to be near the top of the league in rushing Pat.

Disagree on the fix however. We need a new OL coach. Whatever line talent we have is not being made better, it's being held up by McNally. But again, who has decided that he's done a great job and deserves to still be here when the jury was out on him, IMO before he got here, but otherwise after the '05 season.

Ergo, if the problem is McNally, and the reason for that problem is others that support him, now our problems just multiplied. We have far too many to correct, or perhaps that will be corrected, in the short term. It's gonna, sadly, take another season of abysmal output, which will happen, before other problems are corrected.

Then, in typical Bills fashion, we'll probably fire the lot in a season where the fewest number of decent candidates for replacement are actually available and hire some other unqualified crony with a preexisting laundry list of issues that we make excuses for as to why none of them were his fault. That's Bills football.

As to Evans, expect him to begin making noise on getting out of here.



We didnt fumble last week?? And I have also been watching the tape of every game and have yet to see Dockery miss a block. At least not to the extent yer claiming. Walker has been dominant in pass blocking.

Why does our run blocking suck if 3/5 OL are playing great?? Because if theres 9 guys at or very near the LOS 3 great blocks wont do much.

What kind of hallucinogens are you on Mahdi?



no passing game. still, a massive hole at RG and Center (our RT is average at best); throw in the fact the play calling sucks, and we have what we have.

I think our line is light years better then last years in pass protection. the run blocking is just not there yet.

I thought that our run blocking was better last year frankly. I agree that our pass blocking is better, but not light years, only marginally. No matter how you slice it, given the circumstances regarding the OL entering this season there is now no more excuse for McNally or for Levy or Dick.

JP was still under pressure and the big delta between he and Edwards is that Edwards does more and shorter drops and the plays are designed to get rid of the ball much more quickly by definition of the high-percentage/short game if nothing else.

While we/he are doing that, it's not yielding benefits in offensive production. Again, the significant tell-tale there is our futility in the red zone. Once again we're among the bottom four teams in the red zone. If Edwards were all that good as some suggest, and granted, he is still a rookie in his first few games, but then we wouldn't be unable to score from within the red zone.

We have only four red zone TDs on the season and two were against the Jets. Edwards has one, JP none, and Edwards' was against the Jets on a 1-yard toss to Gaines at the goal line.

Lynch has the other three with two of the three being not-so-short runs. 1 v. the Jets, NE, and Ravens apiece.


Generally speaking the jury's already out on the Levy-Dick era, the Ivy League Dynamic Duo.

Levy charged in here and made a power play and failed bid for the entire ball of wax. He then turned around and hired Dick. They insisted that they were not rebuilding and ran the team that way by not releasing/trading players when the would have had far more value to us, something that in the face of a rebuild should have been of interest to Marv "take a nap" Levy.

In year two they completely reversed their position and said that they were rebuilding. The only significant moves that they made in spite of shelling out more money on players not worth it elsewhere, was to drop $75M in contracts on the OL. Dockery was reaching and Walker was just downright dumb. Yet, they suggested that they saw things in Walker that "others didn't see" and yet that has not even come close to manifesting itself to validate their own methods and statements. In fact, if anything is true, it's the opposite and quite clearly.

Now the fans are left talking about "what needs to be fixed," yet we are a team that seems to piss off its own players and give them good reasons to want out of here, and a team wherein the biggest issues are at the core/root levels to begin with, namely with those that would select new ones and are in charge of the rebuilding process.

I mean in less than a season and a half the failures of this current new regime are already stacked and piled high on top of one another with their biggest moves reaping little reward if not downrigth flopping.

[Mahdi]

Walker's particularly bad at pass blocking. He's top-heavy, sluggish, cannot adjust at all to DEs taking him on the edge. He's at best a double tackling sled. Agree with the rest however

Again as always, anytime I read your posts is so obvious that your views are biased towards the negative and based on misconceptions. Walker HAS been a dominant pass blocker its not even up for debate. He is routinely taking care of his man and most of the time its one on one with LBs.

I watch the games over and disect every play and Walker has rarely been beaten in pass pro. Where do you come up with this stuff anyways? If you were a journalist and you mentionned anything about Walker playing poorly in pass pro you would be laughed at and your credibility would be questionned. If you want to argue with ppl here and get your point accross and actually be taken seriously then at least say things that have some truth. If you want to debate that he hasnt done well in run blocking then we can actually argue that point, but saying he has been particularly bad at pass blocking is a complete fallacy.

[baalworship]

I think Marv is drafting well but John Guy hasn't impressed me. We need a better pro personnel guy.

[Mahdi]

I think Marv is drafting well but John Guy hasn't impressed me. We need a better pro personnel guy.
I dont think we need any more FAs. Keep the cap space and fill our weaknesses through the draft. We dont need much anyways and we should be able to take care of our needs on the first day of the draft. If McCargo and Williams continue to play at a high level and improve even more then we might actually not need a DT. We also still have Orien Harris on the PS who could develop into a good rotational guy. Our real needs are a big posession WR and a playmaker at TE. First round could be QB.

[TedMock]

If you watch the games, the o-line actually isn't playing that bad. Decent, actually. Wys, I know you said previously that you were no longer watching the Bills games, so I'm assuming you're keeping up with the team via the papers. I'll just give you what I saw the last few weeks...

It pains me to say this because I was really pulling for the guy, but McNally is a big part of the problem. As many have already mentioned, teams are stacking the line and we're not exploiting that. Part of the problem is Lynch being a rookie. I say that because there are times during the game when he just completely misses cutback lanes and I have to assume that it's him still not fully up to the speed he's facing. However, the biggest problem is the scheme. We are running a ton of zone blocking on running plays. I truly do not understand why. Fowler can do that fairly well, but the over 330 lbs guys cannot. I don't get why we wouldn't let these guys bull over DT's, but it's not my call. I was worried about Walker, but he's actually been solid. Not great as he has missed a few assignments, but definitely a lot better than I expected. Dockery has been solid, but not as good as I expected and same with Peters. Again, not all bad. Dockery, Fowler, and Butler are facing most of the pressure as that's where opponents are flooding us. All have done well under the circumstances. Butler in his second season has played better than I expected.

The QB's? Oh, the QB's. Edwards has tremendous poise for a rookie. He's quite impressive in that regard. He goes through his reads quickly, has a nice release, and makes very few mistakes. Unfortunately, the mistakes he does make are huge, game-changing, momentum-reversing mistakes. Real bad. You already know what we have with Losman. Strong arm, a little scattered, hates the short game, athletic. I like both QB's for different reasons, but both drive me nuts for different reasons.

The defense has been more active and around the ball a lot more which is nice to see, but they're still giving up chunks at a time. However, they're doing it less often than they did early in the year. I hated DiGiorgio in the beginning of the year, but he's coming into his own a bit and McCargo is actually playing pretty well overall. Tripplet has regressed and Schobel isn't quite the same. Everybody else seems to be where they should be.

[justasportsfan]

Marv could go either way, but is there anyone left who still thinks Jauron knows what he's doing?

The jury is still out es[ecially when you have a meddling owner.

[Ingtar33]

I thought that our run blocking was better last year frankly. I agree that our pass blocking is better, but not light years, only marginally. No matter how you slice it, given the circumstances regarding the OL entering this season there is now no more excuse for McNally or for Levy or Dick.


Toward the end of the year, yeah, the run blocking was better.

and after looking at the numbers, you're right, the pass blocking is better this year, thought not by much.

however, I'm going to show the numbers to you, for some food for thought

Pass Blocking (Team)
2007: 16 sacks in 189 dropbacks = 1 sack per 11.81 dropbacks
2006: 47 sacks in 476 dropbacks = 1 sack per 10.13 dropbacks

Pass Blocking per QB
2007 - Losman : 7 sacks in 59 dropbacks = 1 sack per 8.43 dropbacks
2007 - Edwards: 9 sacks in 130 dropbacks = 1 sack per 14.4 dropbacks

Losman's numbers per passing attempt are Rob Johnsonesque (not that edwards are great, but they're not rob johnson's famous 1 sack per 10-12 attempts numbers. Hell, heres a comparison for you.

2002 - Bledsoe: 54 Sacks in 664 dropbacks = 1 sack per 12.30 dropbacks

[Wys Guy]

Again as always, anytime I read your posts is so obvious that your views are biased towards the negative and based on misconceptions. Walker HAS been a dominant pass blocker its not even up for debate. He is routinely taking care of his man and most of the time its one on one with LBs.

I watch the games over and disect every play and Walker has rarely been beaten in pass pro. Where do you come up with this stuff anyways? If you were a journalist and you mentionned anything about Walker playing poorly in pass pro you would be laughed at and your credibility would be questionned. If you want to argue with ppl here and get your point accross and actually be taken seriously then at least say things that have some truth. If you want to debate that he hasnt done well in run blocking then we can actually argue that point, but saying he has been particularly bad at pass blocking is a complete fallacy.

Completely false. Walker stinks. But hey, given some of your views, at least your somewhat consistent.

[LtBillsFan66]

Completely false. Walker stinks. But hey, given some of your views, at least your somewhat consistent.

I thought you admitted to not watching many of the games this year. How do you know how Walker has performed?

[Mahdi]

Toward the end of the year, yeah, the run blocking was better.

and after looking at the numbers, you're right, the pass blocking is better this year, thought not by much.

however, I'm going to show the numbers to you, for some food for thought

Pass Blocking (Team)
2007: 16 sacks in 189 dropbacks = 1 sack per 11.81 dropbacks
2006: 47 sacks in 476 dropbacks = 1 sack per 10.13 dropbacks

Pass Blocking per QB
2007 - Losman : 7 sacks in 59 dropbacks = 1 sack per 8.43 dropbacks
2007 - Edwards: 9 sacks in 130 dropbacks = 1 sack per 14.4 dropbacks

Losman's numbers per passing attempt are Rob Johnsonesque (not that edwards are great, but they're not rob johnson's famous 1 sack per 10-12 attempts numbers. Hell, heres a comparison for you.

2002 - Bledsoe: 54 Sacks in 664 dropbacks = 1 sack per 12.30 dropbacks
These numbers are normal and expected considering we've played 6 out of 7 games against 3-4 teams. They will usually get at least 2 sacks a game. Its almost impossible to contain the blitzes that are faced with these defenses.

The other factor involved is that our QBs both have been guilty of holding on to the ball too long and that has been the main cause of sacks this year. How many times have we seen Edwards get 3 or 4 seconds in the pocket then take the sack. Don't get me wrong it hasnt happened a lot but enough to cause those numbers.

[EDS]

Toward the end of the year, yeah, the run blocking was better.

and after looking at the numbers, you're right, the pass blocking is better this year, thought not by much.

however, I'm going to show the numbers to you, for some food for thought

Pass Blocking (Team)
2007: 16 sacks in 189 dropbacks = 1 sack per 11.81 dropbacks
2006: 47 sacks in 476 dropbacks = 1 sack per 10.13 dropbacks

Pass Blocking per QB
2007 - Losman : 7 sacks in 59 dropbacks = 1 sack per 8.43 dropbacks
2007 - Edwards: 9 sacks in 130 dropbacks = 1 sack per 14.4 dropbacks

Losman's numbers per passing attempt are Rob Johnsonesque (not that edwards are great, but they're not rob johnson's famous 1 sack per 10-12 attempts numbers. Hell, heres a comparison for you.

2002 - Bledsoe: 54 Sacks in 664 dropbacks = 1 sack per 12.30 dropbacks

I definitely think the pass blocking has improved - except the Bills running backs cannot pass block at all. Run blocking is horrid. Last year the Bills could run for 4+ yards at will on the left side behind Peters and Gandy.

Maybe it is a system thing, but if they are zone blocking then why bring in drive blockers like Dockery and Walker?

[Wys Guy]

If you watch the games, the o-line actually isn't playing that bad. Decent, actually. Wys, I know you said previously that you were no longer watching the Bills games, so I'm assuming you're keeping up with the team via the papers. I'll just give you what I saw the last few weeks...

It pains me to say this because I was really pulling for the guy, but McNally is a big part of the problem. As many have already mentioned, teams are stacking the line and we're not exploiting that. Part of the problem is Lynch being a rookie. I say that because there are times during the game when he just completely misses cutback lanes and I have to assume that it's him still not fully up to the speed he's facing. However, the biggest problem is the scheme. We are running a ton of zone blocking on running plays. I truly do not understand why. Fowler can do that fairly well, but the over 330 lbs guys cannot. I don't get why we wouldn't let these guys bull over DT's, but it's not my call. I was worried about Walker, but he's actually been solid. Not great as he has missed a few assignments, but definitely a lot better than I expected. Dockery has been solid, but not as good as I expected and same with Peters. Again, not all bad. Dockery, Fowler, and Butler are facing most of the pressure as that's where opponents are flooding us. All have done well under the circumstances. Butler in his second season has played better than I expected.

The QB's? Oh, the QB's. Edwards has tremendous poise for a rookie. He's quite impressive in that regard. He goes through his reads quickly, has a nice release, and makes very few mistakes. Unfortunately, the mistakes he does make are huge, game-changing, momentum-reversing mistakes. Real bad. You already know what we have with Losman. Strong arm, a little scattered, hates the short game, athletic. I like both QB's for different reasons, but both drive me nuts for different reasons.

The defense has been more active and around the ball a lot more which is nice to see, but they're still giving up chunks at a time. However, they're doing it less often than they did early in the year. I hated DiGiorgio in the beginning of the year, but he's coming into his own a bit and McCargo is actually playing pretty well overall. Tripplet has regressed and Schobel isn't quite the same. Everybody else seems to be where they should be.

We're simply going to have to agree to disagree here. When I watch teams like NE and Indy and any one of another dozen or so teams it becomes glaringly obvious to me the shortcomings on our OL.

I truly believe that so many here and so many Bills fans have lived with such shoddy performances for so long that even the remotest semblance of solid play "becomes" average or "not so bad" or the like.

Our line is bad. It's statistically bad and when we watch games it's bad as a rule visually. They never put more than a series together, or very rarely, and often must rely on two or more extra blockers.

Either way, it can't be both ways, namely that Lynch and Edwards are really good, but that the line is halfway decent too. If that were the case, then we wouldn't be struggling every game, particularly against some of the crappiest defenses that have ever taken the field in the NFL, for any season, in putting up a mere 17 points. It just wouldn't be that way.

So that means that one must begin separating the things that are working from those that are not.

If you wanted to sell me on the notion that Walker and the rest of the line talent is not at all that bad but that they are miscoached, then fine, but then let's hang the albatross of incompetence directly around the necks of where it belongs.

Otherwise I simply sense some denial mixed in with a bias that simply cannot nor will not recognize the realities of the situation(s).

I don't know what else to say, but if what you and Mahdi say is true, then either we have some really horrific skill position talent, or coaches and management that are so incredibly bad, or what you say simply isn't true.

Our line is bad. It's not at all good. It's bad statistically, meaning among the bottom quartile easily. Our statistical categories that reflect that otherwise offensively are also largely in the bottom quartile if not worse including the most fundamental performance indicators. Our skill position players do not have even average averages or even close such as Lynch's 3.6 ypc average when at least IMO he's better than that.

So start suggesting that Lynch isn't all that if you want, but otherwise something must explain the sheer and utter lack of performance. We cannot simply sit here and try to convince ourselves that based on a 3-win record to date with two pathetic wins over the Jets, and pathetic from only our end too, that what's very low-end in relation to the rest of the league really "isn't that bad" otherwise.

[Wys Guy]

PS I've watched 4 out of 7 games this season and didn't see our line play more than perhaps 3 solid quarters of the 16 that I saw.

[Wys Guy]

Toward the end of the year, yeah, the run blocking was better.

and after looking at the numbers, you're right, the pass blocking is better this year, thought not by much.

however, I'm going to show the numbers to you, for some food for thought

Pass Blocking (Team)
2007: 16 sacks in 189 dropbacks = 1 sack per 11.81 dropbacks
2006: 47 sacks in 476 dropbacks = 1 sack per 10.13 dropbacks

Pass Blocking per QB
2007 - Losman : 7 sacks in 59 dropbacks = 1 sack per 8.43 dropbacks
2007 - Edwards: 9 sacks in 130 dropbacks = 1 sack per 14.4 dropbacks

Losman's numbers per passing attempt are Rob Johnsonesque (not that edwards are great, but they're not rob johnson's famous 1 sack per 10-12 attempts numbers. Hell, heres a comparison for you.

2002 - Bledsoe: 54 Sacks in 664 dropbacks = 1 sack per 12.30 dropbacks

Oh, I won't disagree with that at all Ingtar. Where I will take issue is in the way both play or perhaps what has to do with the play calling. We all know that it was usual for Losman to stand back in the pocket looking for open receivers.

This season with Edwards in there that's simply not a recollection. Edwards is clearly throwing much quicker passes often on only 5-step or even 3-step drops. So in that regard, that has a lot to do with your analysis.

Of JP's 7 sacks 4 were on the road in Pittsburgh. Edwards was allowed to face the Jets O twice and the team has so tailored the passing game to ensure that he doesn't get overwhelmed that our offense is inept and utterly ineffective with him in there.

Case in point, other than in the two Jets game where the team averaged an extremely unimpressive 15.0 ppg against them, our offense has averaged fewer than 10 ppg otherwise with Edwards in there.

IMO you're oversimplifying the entire thing in this way due to the two different styles and strengths of each QB. JP clearly struggles on the short-medium throws while Edwards has yet to prove that he can even heave the ball much beyond 40 or 45 yards in the air, and not suggesting that he cannot.

It is possible to have as a goal reducing pressure on your QB and/or minimizing sacks. That is not to say that such a strategy/goal will assist in winning games. That's where we are, because our offense as purely an offense and not counting points scored by the team as a whole, ranks among the two or three worst right now in that regard.

Anyway, bottom line, Losman will take more sacks for the simple reason that he prefers to stand in the pocket, or let's just say in the O backfield, and look farther downfield than Edwards does or perhaps is allowed to. It may only amount to one or two per game, but that's more than enough to provide the basis for the analysis that you just threw up.

The rewards are greater and can easily be seen in the TD last week to Evans for 85 and a TD. He's thrown 6 passes against the Jets and one has been a TD. Edwards has thrown 49 against the Jets, a poor passing D, and has also 1 TD.

By the same token I won't stoop to suggesting that Losman throws more TDs per pass thrown, or rather has fewer passes thrown per TD than Edwards, and is therefore a better QB or that the lie has played better for him in that regard with over twice the TD% and less than half of the INT% as a whole on the season.

There are so many ways one can slice this in the stats between the QBs and I'd all but guarantee you that I can do it and make JP appear to be the better QB.

A good line however results in points. Sure, our line has played well on drives, but far more than often it plays poorly. If that weren't true, we woudln't be near the bottom in red zone performance, 29th I believe, 31st in 1st downs per game, 29th in 3rd-down completion percentage, etc. We just wouldn't be.

[Luisito23]

:yawn:....




GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!

[Wys Guy]

I thought you admitted to not watching many of the games this year. How do you know how Walker has performed?

I've seen four games this season and the Cincy game is on local this weekend.

So unless Walker has played like Orlando Pace, my analysis rests with what I saw in preseason and in four games to date along with the critique of many others.

Also, factor in abysmal sack, false start, and penalty stats from four prior season too.

[Wys Guy]

I definitely think the pass blocking has improved - except the Bills running backs cannot pass block at all. Run blocking is horrid. Last year the Bills could run for 4+ yards at will on the left side behind Peters and Gandy.

Maybe it is a system thing, but if they are zone blocking then why bring in drive blockers like Dockery and Walker?

Again, and I'm gonna challenge everyone on this, since when? Since we played the Jets?

As well, assuming that's true, we've amassed 139 and 148 net yards of passing prior to that. That's a reflection of good pass blocking?

Not in my book.

[YardRat]

I thought you knew everything YardRat! I'll allow you to chew on that one for a while. Hint: If you think Lynch is a good runner, you may be right!


Aw shucks. I never claimed to know everything, but if that's the impression I've given you I'm certainly flattered.

[Ingtar33]

i think you're misunderstanding me wys.

Im not in favor of either quarterback.

I'm just pointing out that jp and Edwards both equally suck, and the part that should be alarming is edwards looks statistically identical to JP and he's a rookie, while JP is a 4 year player.

[Wys Guy]

i think you're misunderstanding me wys.

Im not in favor of either quarterback.

I'm just pointing out that jp and Edwards both equally suck, and the part that should be alarming is edwards looks statistically identical to JP and he's a rookie, while JP is a 4 year player.

Thanks for clarifying that Ing. I didn't get the impression that you were "in favor" of either QB. You did say that that pass blocking had improved significantly and I took issue with that.

Also, per the above, their stats aren't equal. They're better/worse in different ways. JP for example never has been nor is prone to throwing INTs. That's important too but seems to get overlooked in analyses between the two.

Given Edwards short high-percentage game and the fact that either he and/or the team have bent over backwards to give him a "safe" passing game, his 4 INTs in 4 games is far from impressive.

As to JP "being a 4-year player," agreed, obviously as this is his 4th season. BUT, he's on a crud team, led by morons, with a bad OL.

He also has only started what, 25 games? People talk as if he's been playing for three or four seasons. '05 was an absolute joke. So essentially I will at least yield the benefit of the doubt to him in that way and concede to his credit that he really has had only one season behind a bad line on a poor team to "show something."

Edwards won't show any more by the end of '08. That doesn't mean it's his fault all of it. I frankly just don't see anything in Edwards. I also don't see anything promising in JP and have laid out my view extensively there too. His short game is not good and no QB in the NFL will succeed w/o one.

Anyway, I simply don't think it's fair to JP in spite of that to insist that this is his fourth season when two of those were sitting behind brickhead Bledsoe and the next one was probably spent trying to get all of those visions out of his head. LOL

Anyway, as stated, the issues with the QB and skill positions are all categorically far more deep rooted than most think and this organization has utterly failed in their glorius (and expensive) rebuild of the OL.

[TedMock]

Either way, it can't be both ways, namely that Lynch and Edwards are really good, but that the line is halfway decent too. If that were the case, then we wouldn't be struggling every game, particularly against some of the crappiest defenses that have ever taken the field in the NFL, for any season, in putting up a mere 17 points. It just wouldn't be that way.

So that means that one must begin separating the things that are working from those that are not.

If you wanted to sell me on the notion that Walker and the rest of the line talent is not at all that bad but that they are miscoached, then fine, but then let's hang the albatross of incompetence directly around the necks of where it belongs.

Otherwise I simply sense some denial mixed in with a bias that simply cannot nor will not recognize the realities of the situation(s).

I don't know what else to say, but if what you and Mahdi say is true, then either we have some really horrific skill position talent, or coaches and management that are so incredibly bad, or what you say simply isn't true.


We're not that far off in our beliefs except that you seem to feel that the o-line is tremendously bad and I feel that the offensive coaching is tremendously bad. Don't get me wrong - I do not feel that our o-line is anywhere near being on par with that of the Patriots. I just think it tends to look better than it has. I also think Walker looks better than people say he does. He's not playing even close to the level of money he makes either. I wouldn't suggest that. So, I agree with you in that "not so bad" has become a welcome improvement to the fans. Sad, but true considering what we've watched over the years. At least we don't feel as if the line will be solely responsible for a loss any longer! It's a collective effort led by the coaching staff.

As for the skilled positions - well they're all over the place. Lynch is a legit stud who runs very hard and has impressed me quite a bit even on short gains. He does not pass block very well, but a lot of rookies don't and he seems to be picking things up a little better in recent weeks. He also needs to see the field a little better than he does at times. Lee Evans is a good WR. I think we all agree on that. I think Josh Reed is a nice 3rd and Roscoe Parrish is a nice 4th. We have no #2 on this roster and that's very troubling. We also don't have TE worth anything. I don't know what to say about the QB's anymore. I think both have strengths, but both certainly have glaring weaknesses. Neither has impressed me with his overall game. Both have impressed me with certain aspects. I certainly don't think Edwards or Losman are very good overall QB's at this point. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady they are not.

My biggest problem with the team right now, and where I will gladly place the blame, is the offensive coaching. I put a huge majority of our woes on Fairchild and McNally. I feel the size and strength of our o-line is not being utilized properly with the blocking schemes we've witnessed to date. I also think the offensive play-calling has been horrible. Every player on the offense could use some work. No doubt about that. However, I watch these games and wonder constantly "why would they call that?!" Pass plays on 3rd and short, late in the game, with a lead, and in field goal range; WR hitch plays 6 times in one game (um, they're not fooled anymore); trick plays deep in our own territory in tight games; etc. I just don't get it.

[acehole]

Bingo, this is the problem. Our opponents play 15 yards and in waiting for us to make a move. If we throw 50 yards bombs, they back way up and we have a better running game. Box stacked = lower YPC.

Who are you and what have you done with skoob.

[acehole]

I made these piont earlier on and was flamed...for making excuses for JP. Even during the Edwadrs game I complianed about the Playcalling ..so that isnt it. It seem like they find a way to kill drives...they get "Cute" with the calling. ....or line up and call three gut runs with the same formation...then when they pass in the same series they dont playaction pass...doent make sense. I am starting to come around to Juron...but I never liked fairchild. He was suppose to be this M Martz spinnoff...too bad they left the pass section of that book behind. You either set up the pass with run...or set up the run with the pass...he does niether.He is predictable and boring....which does not have to be ball control. Ball control can indeed be 4 runs in a row...but do they have to be the same play? Can we go from quick slant to sweep right, to delay hand off to screen? I would be thrilled with that...and guess what..it isnt predictible.I like the OLINE but they are asked to smash somebodies mouth on every play. Cant they scheam? Pull a guard? Run a counter trey? When they started to tee off on Edwards they should have run outside screens to counter the blitzing.....they did not do anything to counter anyone.



We're not that far off in our beliefs except that you seem to feel that the o-line is tremendously bad and I feel that the offensive coaching is tremendously bad. Don't get me wrong - I do not feel that our o-line is anywhere near being on par with that of the Patriots. I just think it tends to look better than it has. I also think Walker looks better than people say he does. He's not playing even close to the level of money he makes either. I wouldn't suggest that. So, I agree with you in that "not so bad" has become a welcome improvement to the fans. Sad, but true considering what we've watched over the years. At least we don't feel as if the line will be solely responsible for a loss any longer! It's a collective effort led by the coaching staff.

As for the skilled positions - well they're all over the place. Lynch is a legit stud who runs very hard and has impressed me quite a bit even on short gains. He does not pass block very well, but a lot of rookies don't and he seems to be picking things up a little better in recent weeks. He also needs to see the field a little better than he does at times. Lee Evans is a good WR. I think we all agree on that. I think Josh Reed is a nice 3rd and Roscoe Parrish is a nice 4th. We have no #2 on this roster and that's very troubling. We also don't have TE worth anything. I don't know what to say about the QB's anymore. I think both have strengths, but both certainly have glaring weaknesses. Neither has impressed me with his overall game. Both have impressed me with certain aspects. I certainly don't think Edwards or Losman are very good overall QB's at this point. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady they are not.

My biggest problem with the team right now, and where I will gladly place the blame, is the offensive coaching. I put a huge majority of our woes on Fairchild and McNally. I feel the size and strength of our o-line is not being utilized properly with the blocking schemes we've witnessed to date. I also think the offensive play-calling has been horrible. Every player on the offense could use some work. No doubt about that. However, I watch these games and wonder constantly "why would they call that?!" Pass plays on 3rd and short, late in the game, with a lead, and in field goal range; WR hitch plays 6 times in one game (um, they're not fooled anymore); trick plays deep in our own territory in tight games; etc. I just don't get it.

[Typ0]

I definately think they have a plan. Make some decent cash. Build up their resume in case they get a chance to work for a real owner someday and not some wrinkled up incompetent joke. Vacation in the bahamas during the winter months making sure they get there before new years.

[Typ0]

i think you're misunderstanding me wys.

Im not in favor of either quarterback.

I'm just pointing out that jp and Edwards both equally suck, and the part that should be alarming is edwards looks statistically identical to JP and he's a rookie, while JP is a 4 year player.

not that alarming. We know what we have in JP if TE improves like many first year rookies do he's the better QB.

[kernowboy]

One of the reasons why I didn't like the Off season was that we massively overpaid on Dockery and Walker and our Day2 of the draft was poor because of our failure to land a OL prospect.

Firstly I think we would have been playing Aaron Merz if he had not got injured.

Gandy had started developing a strong relationship with Peters and would have been much cheaper to resign than Dockery. Sean Mahan would have been a good upgrade at C, and a RT competition between Butler, Pennington and a signed Rob Petiti would have given us a decent man on the outside right. Instead we overpay on Walker and make up undropable.

Rather than Dwayne Wright we could have drafted Manuel Ramirez in R4 and I am sure he would have been in the lineup by the end of the season.

Looking forward, I think drafting John Sullivan C, and Coby Rinehart OL makes a lot of sense next year.

[Typ0]

more of the revolving door theory that never seems to make things better.