Notes from Gary's and Ismail's visit!

[Tatonka]

Gary Knows You Need Two Backs: Olandis Gary said his visit is going great so far. He didn't expect to visit Buffalo with presence of Travis Henry. He feels this is a good opportunity for him since you need two good backs in the NFL. He spoke to Henry during his visit today. Gary is looking to be part of a long term solution, not a short fix. He feels he can do many things including catching the ball out of the backfield on third downs. He is coming off an injury riddled career but says he feels great now and his lack of playing time last year was because of the cluttered backfield in Denver. He says he will accept a split time role with the Bills, saying he would be happy with 30% of the playing time. He feels he would be better off as a backup on a Super Bowl contender like the Bills then a starter on a bad team. He has visits planned with Jacksonville and the Giants and has other visits yet to be scheduled.

Ismail Impressed With Bills: Quadry Ismail addressed the media after his visit and he said he is very impressed with the direction the organization is taking. He feels as a veteran receiver he understands the workings of the game and that could he could be an added dimension to the potent offense. He feels it would be great to work with a quarterback the caliber of Drew Bledsoe. He thinks it would be a good place for him if it works out for both sides. He feels he could compete with Josh Reed for the number two spot if he signs with the Bills.

[lordofgun]

thanks! link?

[Pride]

Works for me! Thanks tatonka!

[The Natrix]

man, those would be great additions

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would love to get both of them. We would be set!!!

[SoCalBillsFan]

adding gary to the backfield would be a huge plus. I'm concerned with our lack of depth at RB right now.

[Schobel94]

Screw them both, we dont need them! 30 % of the time? You gotta be kidding me! more like 15 at most, there is no reason to have Henry in less than 80-85% of the plays, he a pro-bowler. If he signs I only want to see him in when Henry is tired. We dont need Ismail either, I am fundamentally opposed with getting a reciever who could compete w/ Reed. Reed is a great talent but he CANNOT develop it if he doesnt get the playing time he deserves! He's also like 32, not eactly a long term solution. I would be fine with Gary, but I think we should bass on Ismail.

[venis2k1]

Shaw said he would compete with reed too, every WR we bring in will say the same thing. And Henry is a hard nosed back. He takes alot punishment every game. You cant expect him to do that all year long and still be 100% for a playoff run.

[Schobel94]

There was never any doubt that Shaw would be #3, but adding one more reciever just throws things over one. The bottom line is that we dont need him. Why do you think Harrison was passed to so many times, its becuase nobody else on that team could catch a football. I think you're right though about Henry, he got 90% of the running plays last year and you cant possibly last that long after taking the kind of punishment he does, he needs some1 who can take the pressure off of him.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Schobel94
Screw them both, we dont need them! 30 % of the time? You gotta be kidding me! more like 15 at most, there is no reason to have Henry in less than 80-85% of the plays, he a pro-bowler. If he signs I only want to see him in when Henry is tired. We dont need Ismail either, I am fundamentally opposed with getting a reciever who could compete w/ Reed. Reed is a great talent but he CANNOT develop it if he doesnt get the playing time he deserves! He's also like 32, not eactly a long term solution. I would be fine with Gary, but I think we should bass on Ismail.

I don't know about you Schoebel but I don't want to wait arround and see if Reed is ready to develop. We need to win now. Why wait til' next year when Reed is ready? If we can get the help to win now , let's do it.

[venis2k1]

I also think having reed in the slot is a pretty good thing. He is the perfect slot WR. He runs great routes, he runs hard, and he has good hands. Competition never hurt anybody.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I say sign them both, but I'm not comfortable with Gary getting 30% playing time. As soon as you put down a number like that, then it's expected, and expectations breed disapointment and contempt. We can't have any RB controversies here. He needs to be just a relief runner, or someone who comes in just to mix things up a bit.

[Throne Logic]

I still say we should take a look at Jamal Anderson . . .

[The Spaz]

Travis Henry is the man he is a probowler if Gary signs he gets what he gets in playing time. You don't come to a team who has a probowler and starts talking about playing time. Go Bills!

[Schobel94]

Who ever said Reed wouldnt be ready for this year. Hell hed have been ready last year! I still have not heard any convincing argument as to why Reed would not be a good, if not great 2nd reciever, in fact, I have not heard any arguments, its just people too scared to try something new.

[The Spaz]

I'll be the 1st Josh Reed is going to be the man! He better be because I I bought $115.00 worth of his rookie cards today:)! Go Bills!

[venis2k1]

Originally posted by Schobel94
Who ever said Reed wouldnt be ready for this year.

the coaches. At the end of the season GW said he "wasnt 100% comfortable letting Reed step into the #2 spot." It was part of a statment saying he wanted Price back.

[SoCalBillsFan]

Guys, signing gary doesn't mean he gets 30 percent of the carries..that's just a number he threw out there. The coaches will decide that. The fact is that in the NFL today it is necessery to have 2 guys who can carry the ball if you want to get deep into the playoffs. I want our running game to be effective, and having two backs will help. Henry is still gonna get most of the carries, but he will be more effective if he has a little help. I don't want him getting hurt.

As for Ismael, why does it hurt to have another receiver? I want the best receiving core we can get on the field. If reed is so good, he will beat ismael out, so what are you scared of? It never hurts to get more depth. Reed will get plenty of playing time.

Fact is I don't care who plays as long as we win. Adding more talented players leads to winning

[venis2k1]

and for those that dont want Olandis Gary here, what would happen if TH went down with an injury(knock on wood). Would you be happy with Morris getting 100% of the carries??? Or if Moulds went down(again knock on wood) we would have Reed as our #1 and Shaw as our #2 and then put Charles Johnson in the slot.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I never cared for either Ismail.

If we got Gary, he'd eventually be playing 80% of the time because he doesn't fumble the ball 87 times.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by venis2k1
and for those that dont want Olandis Gary here, what would happen if TH went down with an injury(knock on wood). Would you be happy with Morris getting 100% of the carries??? Or if Moulds went down(again knock on wood) we would have Reed as our #1 and Shaw as our #2 and then put Charles Johnson in the slot.

Or if the Janitor got injured, would anyone feel comfortable with Watson holding the mop/broom?

[Bufftp]

no

[Schobel94]

You could say that for every position! If Bledsoe, Van Pelt, and Brown got hurt would you feel confortable having Jow Schmoe as QB. We can't worry about that kind of thing. Bottom line, no matter what back up we get if T Hen goes down were screwed!

[venis2k1]

Originally posted by Schobel94
You could say that for every position! If Bledsoe, Van Pelt, and Brown got hurt would you feel confortable having Jow Schmoe as QB. We can't worry about that kind of thing. Bottom line, no matter what back up we get if T Hen goes down were screwed!

We have quality depth at most spots. RB and WR arnt one of them.

[SoCalBillsFan]

Originally posted by Schobel94
You could say that for every position! If Bledsoe, Van Pelt, and Brown got hurt would you feel confortable having Jow Schmoe as QB. We can't worry about that kind of thing. Bottom line, no matter what back up we get if T Hen goes down were screwed!

I disagree completely. First of all, your bledsoe example means 3 people have to go down before we are screwed. Obviously the likelyhood of that happening is small. Of course if bledose goes down it will be harder to win, but I think van pelt is a decent backup and can still give us an opportunity to win. That is the job of a backup.

Right now, if henry goes down we ARE screwed at the running back position. But if we get somone like gary, we will have a RB with starter experience who has been succesful at the NFL level to fill his spot. Sure, he wont be as good, but he will put us in a better position to win thatn morris or burns will. That is important. Look at the dolphins, there season was ruyined because they didn't have a backup QB. if they had a quality backup, they would have made the playoffs AND had their starting unit together for the playoffs.

Same goes for WR. If moulds get hurt, Reed is number 1, and BOOBY SHAW is number 2, rogers number 3. A very unintimidating receiving core. Ismael may not be the best, but id much rather have him in there instead of rogers and maybe shaw if need be.

It never hurts to have depth, expecially if we can afford it, which we can!

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Schobel94
If Bledsoe, Van Pelt, and Brown got hurt would you feel confortable having Jow Schmoe as QB. We can't worry about that kind of thing. Bottom line, no matter what back up we get if T Hen goes down were screwed!

schobel, i know you are smarter than that statement..

no.. you cant plan on ALL THREE of your QBs getting hurt.. but i feel comfortable with AVP and TB as back ups..

we need a good back up for henry.. and you know what.. if henry were to go down, i believe gary has shown before what he can do if the starter gets hurt.. or do you want to ask Terrell Davis?

just becuase your starters get hurt, does not mean you are screwed.. you plan for it, and hope for the best.. Philly made it deep in the playoffs because their 2nd and 3rd string qbs played well.. that is called preperation, which is exactly why they were brought in for a visit.

[Tatonka]

i got that link from www.billsdaily.com

[Schobel94]

I'm all for Gary! I want Gary! I love Gary! I just dont want Ismail, I dont want an old reciever to mess up the flow of our corps. The reciever/QB chemisrty takes time, just like the O-line, and the secondary, that is why I am opposed to having any new starters in those three areas (beside essential ones). You keep putting in new people just becuase they may be a little better and they will never develop!! I like Reed, and I would just like everyone to give him a freakin chance before we bench him. He will be better than anyone we could possibly get, I garuntee that!

You're right though depth is essential, remember when Winfield went down and Watson was the starting CB!?! *shudders* how did we ever do it, oh wait we didn't, we were lucky we didnt face any prolific passing O's.

[Tatonka]

schobel.. if reed should be the starter.. he will earn it (which i think he will).. it sounds like you dont want him to have any competition.. just hand him the job?

[Schobel94]

Precisely, competition is not always good, it can make a lot of hostilities and be a very negative force on the team. Like Flutie v Johnson, that was a nightmare! You need someone to step in and say you're in and you're out. Unfortunately they both stunk, but at least Johnson had a chance. Just give Reed a chance. I am afraid that they might put someone else in SOLEY on the reason he is a 2nd year reciever, and needs to be"seasoned". He is ready now! He would have been ready last year if we had needed him! I don't trust GW the way he's been talkin about Reed. If he turns out to be a bust then you can yell at me, I have been wrong before ya know.

[Tatonka]

i disagree totally.. you dont hand anyone the job, it promotes complacentcy..

while you state reed has done nothing to show he shouldnt be the starter.. he also has shown that he should be a lock to start.. if shaw plays better than reed.. i want shaw on the field..

your saying start the guy just because we dont want to hurt anyones feelings.. i am saying play the best player, which should be reed.. but if he isnt.. you put in your best wr.

[Romes]

Originally posted by Schobel94
Precisely, competition is not always good, it can make a lot of hostilities and be a very negative force on the team. Like Flutie v Johnson, that was a nightmare! You need someone to step in and say you're in and you're out. Unfortunately they both stunk, but at least Johnson had a chance. Just give Reed a chance. I am afraid that they might put someone else in SOLEY on the reason he is a 2nd year reciever, and needs to be"seasoned". He is ready now! He would have been ready last year if we had needed him! I don't trust GW the way he's been talkin about Reed. If he turns out to be a bust then you can yell at me, I have been wrong before ya know.

I disagree. The RJ/DF thing is completley different. Both thought they had earned their starting spots. Both where highly paid as starters. Also, they played a position where 2nd string hardly, if ever plays as long as the starter stays healthy. A WR battle is completley different. But if you do want to compare there are 2 reasons the RJ/DF thing became so bad.

One was because the coaches couldn't stick by one guy. As long as the coaches declare a winner at the end of the competition there shouldn't be confusion between who should start. There were arguements because the coaches did not put there foot down.

The second reason goes hand in hand with the first. It also depends a lot on the players. The player who does not win has to respect the decision and play the correct role on the team. Just as much as the guy that one needs to be a gracious winner and not rub it in the other guys face.

That being said, I don't understand how making Reed compete for the #2 job is a bad thing. I don't want anyone on this team being handed their position. Now, nothing that I have heard about Reed lets me to believe that he is a slacker. Still, people should be brought in to let Reed know he doesn't automatically have the spot.

Don't forget that someone that will push Reed in theory would also be an excellent #3 receiver. It will only make this team better.

[Tatonka]

reed and shaw both seem like team players.. they can deal with competition..

doug flutie was not a team player.. he was only concerned about DF..

RJ, imho, was a team player.. he just was not that good.

[Schobel94]

What I am saying is that I am convinced our coaching staff cannot adequately evaluate who is the better reciever. You cant just say start the better man when no one really can tell who the better man is, especially just through training camp and preseason. I like our WR's the way they are, there is no need to create unnecessary competition. I mean, of course this is 100% my opinion and as you can see I am hell bent on having Reed start, so why should I support competition, I know who I want and everyone else will just stand in the way. I have NEVER been so convinced about a player as I am right now! This is purely just a philosiphy in this case, in most other cases I would tend to agree with you. I just see Reed having so much potential, and I see him being such a good reciever, it would be a shame to waste it. I dont care who the hell they bring in, Reed must start, or I'll be one unhappy camper. Hell I wanted Price gone halfway through the seasn, I NEVER saw Price as being a great reciever. Not like Reed, I just see greatness written all over him. I hope our staff sees that too, but it sure doesn't sound that way.

[Schobel94]

Don't forget that someone that will push Reed in theory would also be an excellent #3 receiver. It will only make this team better.

In theory is the key word. What one must remember is that our coaches are not Gods, they make mistakes, it has happened before and will happen again, I just don't want it to be with this.

Case in point: Remeber we had John Parella at one point? Our coaches obviously thought someone else was better than he was and cut him, and he became, while not a great player, a very good one. I think Reed is 1000x that and I want him played, signing another WR is just wasting money that could be used elsewhere.

[Tatonka]

the better guy will get the job..

and if they are head to head.. then they will split time i am sure.. drew will pick his favorite..

i really dont think at this point that it is going to be much competition though.. reed fans should not be worried.. lol

[Schobel94]

Another one was Rich Gannon, I mean, we cannot trust our staff to make the best decisions. Obviously this is coming from someone who believes he knows more than our coaches, which while probably isnt true, is something I like to tell myself.

The way GW is talking about Reed sounds like he is hell bent on keeping him at #3 for at least another year, but maybe I just heard wrong.

[Tatonka]

what decisions have our coaching staff made between players that makes you think they can not evaluate WR talent.. besides draft josh reed?

[Schobel94]

The fact that GW says he is not convinced Reed can be the no. 2 guy. That scares the hell outta me. He better damn well be convinced! The guy will be a phenom! That doesn not instill confidence in me, him sayin stuff like that, when he clearly does deserve it, at least with the guys we have.

[Brian H]

When did GW say this??? u have a link???

[Tatonka]

reed played good as a 3rd WR with 2 GREAT WRs around him, along with a great RB..

i think GW knows more about the situation than you.. i just dont agree with your approach.. you act like reed has done something amazing in his rookie year..

while i think he will be very good, that is not based on what i saw from him in his rookie year..

you have josh reed-obia

i had sam adams-obia.. i understand.

[Schobel94]

You know what this whole discussion is moot becuase he will be the 2nd reciever, I just cant see that not being the case. And if he isnt, you best believe I'll be up in arms.

[Tatonka]

we finally agree on somthing :D

he will be the starter.

[Schobel94]

We also agree that your avatar makes me wanna puke... dammit make another bet so you can change it it makes me sick.

[Tatonka]

yeah.. i am not really digging it at all.. hurts me to look at it to... but a bet is a bet..

brian kept his sig up the whole time..

i have to keep this damn avatar till the draft.

[SoCalBillsFan]

Shoebel, I think Reed is the better player for sure. I do not really see Ismael taking his spot, believe me. COaches say that kind of stuff all the time, it's for motivation. If reed really has all that potential the coaches are going o want to play him.

I really think Ismael can compete with shaw for number 3 and provided much needed depth! We need more depth at WR! Ismael is older and not as dynamic as reed, he isn't going to take his spot!

That being said, the best player should play. If reed isn't the best player, he needs to work harder. Maybe next season will be his breakout year, who knows. The point is this bills team could be good enough to go deep into the playoffs; if reed struggles, and we are in the thick of the hunt, I would expect the coaches wouldn't leave him in "just in case he turns out good like gannon."

you can't play people just because you are afraid of making a judgment in error. And we have a lot invested in reed, the team likes him, he will get his chance. Signing Ismael is only going to make the bills better.

[Kevikid]

I find it interesting that the players that give interviews generally sign with us...minus Dyson and Jenkins.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/index.cfm?cont_id=166371

And I agree with SoCal, Reed will be a very good player for us, but if he doesn't step up to the challenge next year, it will be good to have someone more established, such as Ismail.

[Schobel94]

He's not that good, in fact, he's not good at all, he's old, he's lost a step, and he stinks. That's just my opinion though.

[SoCalBillsFan]

then obviously he isn't going to take reed's spot...so a great depth signing then! A vet with experience who won't take reeds' spot! perfect.

[Romes]

Schobel,

You sound like you are Josh Reed's mom. Stop pampering the guy and let him earn his spot. It will make this whole team better.


:D


:brace:

[venis2k1]

Originally posted by Schobel94
Precisely, competition is not always good...

Competition makes everyone better. We’re telling the guys, ‘If you’re afraid of competition, you’re on the wrong team this year.’ “ - Jerry Gray

[Buffalo Billy Bison]

:fartdie:

Let's just suppose we sign Olandis Gary and predict his running somewhere between 15 and 30 percent. Great. We know that he is in to spell TH, but now let's say TH gets hurt! Whose going to carry the load now?

We going to go back to passing 40+ times a game and let the oppositions defense lay back and wait for the interception, not to mention keying more on Drew.

I thought we were a little week in several key positions including the backfield?!

Sam Gash kicks butt, but a Tailback he's not. I know we have Morris but I personally would rather have OG in place of TH.

:drunks:

[HenryRules]

I think we need Gary. For this coaching staff, Morris is not an adequate backup RB ... otherwise they would have elected to give him the ball. Gilbride has shown in the past he has no problems running the ball (Bettis had a kickass season with him and Taylor did well also), nor does he have a problem spreading carries, he just didn't seem to have faith in Morris which limited our running game.

I also think Ismail would be a good addition. He and Reed play different receiving positions and with the number of 3-wide sets we played last year, I don't think he'd do anything to take away from what Reed is capable of. Even with a more run-oriented offense, I'd like to see us use some 3-wide sets (with either a TE or FB, doesn't matter) cuz with our OL and TE or FB blocking, there aren't many teams that could handle our running up the gut if they need 3 corners on the field. I'm also not a big fan of giving someone a starting job instead of forcing them to beat out veterans ... a lot of players seem to get complacent when handed a starting job instead of winning it.

[McD]

Gary would be a welcome addition and a nice insurance policy for TH. I wouldn't mind spending a 3rd round pick on a speedy WR to help keep the deep ball an option, and give Reed some room to work with underneath.

McD

[WCoastFin]

Signing Gary would be a good move for the Bills, THenry is coming off a fluky season and you dont know what to expect from him especially with his case of "fumbulitis"....this would be a great JIC (Just In Case) signing....As for Ismail, he has lost some talent and has proven he cannot play a lead role as a WR....an upgrade over Shaw is for sure, but not by a longshot.

[4thAndLong]

Originally posted by WCoastFin
Signing Gary would be a good move for the Bills, THenry is coming off a fluky season and you dont know what to expect from him especially with his case of "fumbulitis"....this would be a great JIC (Just In Case) signing....As for Ismail, he has lost some talent and has proven he cannot play a lead role as a WR....an upgrade over Shaw is for sure, but not by a longshot.

Travis, fluky season?

I guess RW had a fluky season too, right? :mex:

[Tatonka]

ricky did have a flukey season.. he will be injured this upcoming year.. that would be more of the norm for him.

[Tatonka]

not to mention, he wont be playing against 2 of the worst run defenses again next year.. in buffalo and NE.. he will be lucky to get the number henry had last year.

[WCoastFin]

Originally posted by Tatonka
not to mention, he wont be playing against 2 of the worst run defenses again next year.. in buffalo and NE.. he will be lucky to get the number henry had last year.

How can you assume that Tatonka?? Great defenses arent made in paper...trust me I know what a great defense looks like ;)