Jim Kelly on 97 Rock

[Dr. Lecter]

I missed part of it, but he talked about the Bills staying in WNY.

The short version is that he and Jack Kemp have investors lined up to buy the team and keep them in WNY. He also talked about a waterfront stadium.

He has talked to Ralph about this plan. He understands (and respects) Ralph's wishes and pointed out that if Ralph was only interested in money he would have sold the team long ago.

Basically he sounded confidant that he and Kemp can buy the team when necessary.

[Turf]

God I love Kelly.

[Luisito23]

I love Jimbo!!!....






GO BILLS!!!!!!!!

[HHURRICANE]

Guys, you are dreaming if you think Kelly and Kemp and their investors are ending up with this team.

It may stay in Buffalo but it won't be with either one of these two in the purchase agreement.

Just so you know the NFL would most likely not approve a group buying this team. So unless Kelly has an extra billion laying around it aint happening.

[mybills]

Then Ralph can pretend to leave it to them in his will. :;

[lordofgun]

I named my firstborn after Jimbo!!

[mybills]

You just got lucky with yours. :;

[hydro]

Guys, you are dreaming if you think Kelly and Kemp and their investors are ending up with this team.

It may stay in Buffalo but it won't be with either one of these two in the purchase agreement.

Just so you know the NFL would most likely not approve a group buying this team. So unless Kelly has an extra billion laying around it aint happening.

Why wouldn't they approve?? Do you have inside info? Are you a NFL exec?

[gil]

Guys, you are dreaming if you think Kelly and Kemp and their investors are ending up with this team.

It may stay in Buffalo but it won't be with either one of these two in the purchase agreement.

Just so you know the NFL would most likely not approve a group buying this team. So unless Kelly has an extra billion laying around it aint happening.

there aren't any group ownership arrangements in the NFL?

[Mr. Miyagi]

I named my firstborn after Jimbo!!
Your parents named YOU after Jimbo!

[OpIv37]

Guys, you are dreaming if you think Kelly and Kemp and their investors are ending up with this team.

It may stay in Buffalo but it won't be with either one of these two in the purchase agreement.

Just so you know the NFL would most likely not approve a group buying this team. So unless Kelly has an extra billion laying around it aint happening.

why? There are plenty of group ownership arrangements around the NFL.

Plus, when you're talking about billion-dollar franchises, there are only a handful of people who have that kind of money and an interest in owning a team. The NFL further limits itself by not wanting owners who own teams in the other major sports leagues (MLB, NBA, NHL). Something has to give eventually or else the NFL is going to run out of potential owners.

The way it typically works is someone is majority owner and acts as the owner at NFL meetings and such, while the team is run by all the owners jointly, similar to a corporate board of directors with the majority owner as CEO.

I think it would be in the NFL's interest to have a former player who knows the league and the city as well as a congressman on the ownership team.

[MikeInRoch]

The NFL has clamped down some on team ownerships, yes. For example, no one is allowed to do what the Packers did (sell it to 'the public') any more.

[madness]

Guys, you are dreaming if you think Kelly and Kemp and their investors are ending up with this team.

It may stay in Buffalo but it won't be with either one of these two in the purchase agreement.

Just so you know the NFL would most likely not approve a group buying this team. So unless Kelly has an extra billion laying around it aint happening.

NFL approves Raiders minority ownership deal

ALAMEDA, Calif. -- The NFL gave approval Wednesday to allow the Oakland Raiders to sell a 20 percent minority interest in the team to a small group of investors.
The deal gives the group no control of the franchise now or in the future. Owner Al Davis and his family remain in charge of the Raiders as they have for more than four decades.
The deal to sell the minority interest in the team was unanimously approved without debate at the NFL owners meeting in Philadelphia, league spokesman Joe Browne said.

http://www.sacbee.com/raiders/story/451511.html

As MikeInRoch said, the public option is pretty much ruled out but here's an article on how GB does it...

Ownership makes Packers best in NFL

Green Bay is very unique in that the team is owned by its fans. According to their official web site, 112,015 different people all own stock in the Packers. This group of people stays large and diverse because there is a cap as to how much stock each person can own to ensure that no one person or group will attain too much power. All of these stockholders entirely fund the Packers, and because dividends are not paid out, all the money generated by the team is put back into the team.

All stockholders also have a say in team affairs. It works much like our own American government. Every year in July, stockholders arrive at Lambeau Field to elect a board of directors.

http://media.www.louisvillecardinal.com/media/storage/paper964/news/2007/10/23/Opinion/Ownership.Makes.Packers.Best.In.Nfl-3048410.shtml

[RockStar36]

The day Jim Kelly is part of the ownership of the team is the day I immediately buy season tickets for the rest of my life.

[Mr. Pink]

The packers public ownership can't happen again...ever. NFL has stated as such.

A group can buy the Bills, true, but someone has to be a majority owner. Kemp and Jimbo putting their money together at best would be like a 10% share of the team. I think I'm high on the percentage though, either way, not likely to happen.

The thought is cool though and gives some people hope.

[trapezeus]

kemp and kelly are essentially the marketing arm of any potential group buyer. They aren't going to be the purchasers, but they are going to be the advisers and high level execs which the majority owner will look to for day to day operations, navigating the league, and player input. Just like with the sabres and golisano. he wanted the presitige and ability to save the team, but knew nothing about hockey. arguably, Quinn is his "hockey guy"

i would imagine a group ownership would also use kemp and kelly as the local heroes to help get tickets sold.

I don't think it's very far fetched.

[Mr. Pink]

kemp and kelly are essentially the marketing arm of any potential group buyer. They aren't going to be the purchasers, but they are going to be the advisers and high level execs which the majority owner will look to for day to day operations, navigating the league, and player input. Just like with the sabres and golisano. he wanted the presitige and ability to save the team, but knew nothing about hockey. arguably, Quinn is his "hockey guy"

i would imagine a group ownership would also use kemp and kelly as the local heroes to help get tickets sold.

I don't think it's very far fetched.

To briefly touch on your last point...The new Browns ownership group wanted nothing to do with Bernie Kosar. Kosar would have done the same thing to help get tickets sold. And the NFL rejected the group that Kosar was involved with.

[HHURRICANE]

why? There are plenty of group ownership arrangements around the NFL.

Plus, when you're talking about billion-dollar franchises, there are only a handful of people who have that kind of money and an interest in owning a team. The NFL further limits itself by not wanting owners who own teams in the other major sports leagues (MLB, NBA, NHL). Something has to give eventually or else the NFL is going to run out of potential owners.

The way it typically works is someone is majority owner and acts as the owner at NFL meetings and such, while the team is run by all the owners jointly, similar to a corporate board of directors with the majority owner as CEO.

I think it would be in the NFL's interest to have a former player who knows the league and the city as well as a congressman on the ownership team.

First off, their are plenty of Billionaires in the world. The rich are getting richer and you only have to look at the latest Forbes to figure it out.

The NFL is pretty clear on having stability with the majority owner so Kelly and Kemp can't show up with a bunch of investors. Actually Kemp and Kelly bring nothing to the table. They would be fortunate to be able to invest as minority owners if, for say, Golisano bought the team.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade but Jim kelly is not the answer to the Bills staying in Buffalo.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Guys, you are dreaming if you think Kelly and Kemp and their investors are ending up with this team.

It may stay in Buffalo but it won't be with either one of these two in the purchase agreement.

Just so you know the NFL would most likely not approve a group buying this team. So unless Kelly has an extra billion laying around it aint happening.
Who gives a **** if they aren't on the purchase agreement man?

I am sick of all the god dang know it alls.... :ill:

[THATHURMANATOR]

To briefly touch on your last point...The new Browns ownership group wanted nothing to do with Bernie Kosar. Kosar would have done the same thing to help get tickets sold. And the NFL rejected the group that Kosar was involved with.
What does that have to do with the Bills though Thomas? :idunno:

[Mr. Pink]

What does that have to do with the Bills though Thomas? :idunno:

Just an example of how implausible it is to think that Kelly and Kemp are gonna be the saviours and the end all be all of how the Bills stay in Buffalo Corey.

Nothing more, nothing less.

[HHURRICANE]

Who gives a **** if they aren't on the purchase agreement man?

I am sick of all the god dang know it alls.... :ill:

Let's ignore the reality of the situation to make your day better. Geez.

People get all excited around here because Kelly says something that people want to believe even thought it's not plausible.

To be honest, it kind of pisses me off because Jim Kelly knows the reality of the situation better than anybody so although it makes him look good to the "regular joe" it makes him less credible with the people that know better.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Just an example of how implausible it is to think that Kelly and Kemp are gonna be the saviours and the end all be all of how the Bills stay in Buffalo Corey.

Nothing more, nothing less.
No it was a totally different situation that has nothing to do with the Bills. What if the Investment Group Kelly and Kemp(a respected politician) have put together is reputable?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Let's ignore the reality of the situation to make your day better. Geez.

People get all excited around here because Kelly says something that people want to believe even thought it's not plausible.

To be honest, it kind of pisses me off because Jim Kelly knows the reality of the situation better than anybody so although it makes him look good to the "regular joe" it makes him less credible with the people that know better.
No one thinks that Kelly or Kemp are themselves going to be the owners of the team. Stop trying to play it off like that.

Neither of us really have any idea so lets not argue about it. Just stop acting like you do.

[clumping platelets]

:pray:

[Mr. Pink]

No it was a totally different situation that has nothing to do with the Bills. What if the Investment Group Kelly and Kemp(a respected politician) have put together is reputable?

It could be reputable yes, but they're gonna need someone who brings the bucks to the table. Because between the two of them they have nowhere near enough to make a dent in the purchase price, let alone majority ownership.

Don't forget as of now, there are NO former players in ownership roles anywhere in the league. At least that I am aware of.

It's different only in one aspect...there was 5 willing groups to purchase the new Browns. So far, we've only heard a few voices say they want to own the Bills. Hopefully they have no personal differences with each other and can sack up the lootcakes to join forces to buy this team. And then hope one person has about 4 to 5 hundred million alone, at the minimum.

Then hope that if this does go into Mr Wilson's estate it's a high enough offer to appease a. the estate and b. the NFL. If someone billionaire in LA, Tor, Vegas for a few examples gets a group together that will offer a billion + for this franchise, we might be in trouble.

[trapezeus]

I don't understand what is so hard to believe that Kemp and Kelly could be getting investors together to get a group to buy the team. Kemp and Kelly are hardly the main investors. They get the name recognition of spearheading an effort and to stay involved with the sport they love.

No one suggests that kelly and kemp will buy the team. Obviously the team is worth $800MM. That means for a single investor to buy, he/she would need to have in excess of $2BN to comfortably buy the team. That also means that that that $2BN person would need it to be very liquid in terms of their prior investments. Typically, high net worth individuals do not have this kind of cash sitting around. They either have concentrated holdings in their company, hedge fund investments which can take a while to get out of, less liquid start-up projects.

This all means that the likely hood of a team of investors coming is as much higher. How do you organize these people who have $200-500MM together and to agree to be part owners? A couple seasoned, well known guys who have a. the football clout (kelly) and b. the political clout (kemp) to make you comfortable that their is a head structure that can not only buy the team, but run the team.

Kemp and Kelly pretty much have to be the big idea guys and get three to 5 investors on board. This is not impossible.

Also for kelly to say such things and not even be working on it serves him absolutely no purpose. The guy is loved in Buffalo regardless of whether he is part of a new ownership structure. I trust Kelly a little more than some guys on Billszone.com complaining that it can't get done.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It could be reputable yes, but they're gonna need someone who brings the bucks to the table. Because between the two of them they have nowhere near enough to make a dent in the purchase price, let alone majority ownership.

Don't forget as of now, there are NO former players in ownership roles anywhere in the league. At least that I am aware of.

It's different only in one aspect...there was 5 willing groups to purchase the new Browns. So far, we've only heard a few voices say they want to own the Bills. Hopefully they have no personal differences with each other and can sack up the lootcakes to join forces to buy this team. And then hope one person has about 4 to 5 hundred million alone, at the minimum.

Then hope that if this does go into Mr Wilson's estate it's a high enough offer to appease a. the estate and b. the NFL. If someone billionaire in LA, Tor, Vegas for a few examples gets a group together that will offer a billion + for this franchise, we might be in trouble.
Right Thomas we all realize there will be someone involved with their group that actually has money! Thanks for pointing that out!

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't understand what is so hard to believe that Kemp and Kelly could be getting investors together to get a group to buy the team. Kemp and Kelly are hardly the main investors. They get the name recognition of spearheading an effort and to stay involved with the sport they love.

No one suggests that kelly and kemp will buy the team. Obviously the team is worth $800MM. That means for a single investor to buy, he/she would need to have in excess of $2BN to comfortably buy the team. That also means that that that $2BN person would need it to be very liquid in terms of their prior investments. Typically, high net worth individuals do not have this kind of cash sitting around. They either have concentrated holdings in their company, hedge fund investments which can take a while to get out of, less liquid start-up projects.

This all means that the likely hood of a team of investors coming is as much higher. How do you organize these people who have $200-500MM together and to agree to be part owners? A couple seasoned, well known guys who have a. the football clout (kelly) and b. the political clout (kemp) to make you comfortable that their is a head structure that can not only buy the team, but run the team.

Kemp and Kelly pretty much have to be the big idea guys and get three to 5 investors on board. This is not impossible.

Also for kelly to say such things and not even be working on it serves him absolutely no purpose. The guy is loved in Buffalo regardless of whether he is part of a new ownership structure. I trust Kelly a little more than some guys on Billszone.com complaining that it can't get done.
:bf1:

[Mr. Pink]

Right Thomas we all realize there will be someone involved with their group that actually has money! Thanks for pointing that out!

That's the thing Corey, we don't know if Jimbo or Kemp have any investors lined up. We just know they want to be part of something that keeps the Bills in Buffalo.

Hell you and I can join this list and say "we want the Bills in Buffalo and would love to be involved in it." IMO it holds the same amount of clout.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That's the thing Corey, we don't know if Jimbo or Kemp have any investors lined up. We just know they want to be part of something that keeps the Bills in Buffalo.

Hell you and I can join this list and say "we want the Bills in Buffalo and would love to be involved in it." IMO it holds the same amount of clout.

Do we know if he DOESN'T?? NO.

Did he say he does? YES.

I guess we will have to take him at his word right?

[Tiburon1724]

I'm told Kelly and Donald Trump are friends....

[mchurchfie]

Your parents named YOU after Jimbo!
They named him after Jim Nabors.:D:

[Typ0]

people are so focused on if people here can afford it...and they are forgetting the other league owners have to approve a transacction that will leave the Bills sucking on the revenue sharing stream.

[THATHURMANATOR]

people are so focused on if people here can afford it...and they are forgetting the other league owners have to approve a transacction that will leave the Bills sucking on the revenue sharing stream.
Good point of course.

[Kelly The Dog]

The team has to be owned by one guy (or woman) with at least 33 (or maybe it's 35%) of the team. It can be split up for the rest of the 65-67% in any number of ways. I don't think there is a number. Kelly and kemp could easily put together a group of investors, say including Wegman and Rich or anyone really, and then become managing partners of the ownership group. That's what Jerry Colangelo did with the Phoenix Suns. He basically had no money but he was always known as the owner. I could easily see this happening, and I also know personally of other groups interested.

The problem will be if some guy swoops in with stupid money and outbids Kelly & Co. by $200 million or so, and then the NFL has to decide.

[gr8slayer]

If he's going to do what Ralph never could I'm all for it.

[eyedog]

I can't believe Kelly would get on the radio and talk bs if they don't have something legitimate going on.
People like Rich, Jacobs, Golisano, and Wegman are all local and have that kind of money. And some of those would have big tie-ins to their other businesses by being part of an ownership group.

[Mitchy moo]

Jim has huge connections in racing as well, I mean huge money. Multi-Billionaire's have a way of getting what they want and if a group of them show up at the NFL's door odds are the other owner's know them. The big boy club is a field of friends and wealth and if Jimbo or Tom G. or anyone brings a group in it's great.

You have to give Jim credit for trying, god bless him.

[jpdex12]

Who gives a **** if they aren't on the purchase agreement man?

I am sick of all the god dang know it alls.... :ill:

And sick of all of the people that act like their soup got peed in!

[justasportsfan]

To be honest, it kind of pisses me off because Jim Kelly knows the reality of the situation better than anybody


Including you.

[trapezeus]

The team has to be owned by one guy (or woman) with at least 33 (or maybe it's 35%) of the team. It can be split up for the rest of the 65-67% in any number of ways. I don't think there is a number. Kelly and kemp could easily put together a group of investors, say including Wegman and Rich or anyone really, and then become managing partners of the ownership group. That's what Jerry Colangelo did with the Phoenix Suns. He basically had no money but he was always known as the owner. I could easily see this happening, and I also know personally of other groups interested.

The problem will be if some guy swoops in with stupid money and outbids Kelly & Co. by $200 million or so, and then the NFL has to decide.

See that's one of the beauty's for a potential owner that kelly and kemp bring to the table. Kelly and Kemp's relationship with the Wilson's could potentially have the heirs of the Estate willing to take fair market value for a sale price as opposed to an inflated price.

As horrible and greedy as you want to paint the wilsons, they have a reputation to maintain. and if they can sell the team within their circle at $800MM and not be seen as evil people vs selling for $1Bn and moving the team. this is a consideration that they will take into account. There are a number of deals that are done for "relationship" reasons in all aspects of business. and there are often times things bigger than the numbers that influence these things.

Potential bidders with the desire to move the team will then have to get comfortable that they'll have to outbid or overpay to get control of the team. Then they need to spend to finance a new stadium deal, etc. These are all more out of pocket expenses. To be truthful, there are only really a handful of guys who could make this purchase on their own for vanity sake and not worry about going over their budget.

The infrastructure is already here in Buffalo. The stadium, the season tickets, a loyal fan base. These are all things a new location needs to cultivate from scratch. and there are no guarantees that they work; LA has proven to be a bust for professional football several times.

[PECKERWOOD]

Why wouldn't they approve?? Do you have inside info? Are you a NFL exec?

Goodell is also from WNY, so I'm sure that he would have some influence on the ruling.

[HHURRICANE]

Ralph's family will sell the team to the highest bidder. It's only worth 800MM in Buffalo. It's over 1 Billion in the open market. Benson had an offer of over 1 Billion in 2005 for the Saints.

Wilson's kids don't need Jim Kelly and Jack Kemp to bridge any kind of Gap. In addition no potential owner, even if he's local, needs Jim Kelly to help facilitate a deal. From a marketing standpoint the Bills already sell out games with a crappy team so Jim Kelly brings nothing.

Guys the almighty dollar rules. I love how Bob Rich got brought up in this whole thing. Do you actually know these people because I do and you are talking out of your butts.

There only 32 teams in arguably the best league in the world. You don't think that there aren't going to be a few people interested in this team??

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ralph's family will sell the team to the highest bidder. It's only worth 800MM in Buffalo. It's over 1 Billion in the open market. Benson had an offer of over 1 Billion in 2005 for the Saints.

Wilson's kids don't need Jim Kelly and Jack Kemp to bridge any kind of Gap. In addition no potential owner, even if he's local, needs Jim Kelly to help facilitate a deal. From a marketing standpoint the Bills already sell out games with a crappy team so Jim Kelly brings nothing.

Guys the almighty dollar rules. I love how Bob Rich got brought up in this whole thing. Do you actually know these people because I do and you are talking out of your butts.

There only 32 teams in arguably the best league in the world. You don't think that there aren't going to be a few people interested in this team??
LOL You don't know Bob Rich man LOL

[billsburgh]

I wonder if Jim Kelly knows Scooby's rich friend. They could buy the team together.

[Mitchy moo]

LOL You don't know Bob Rich man LOL

My best friends aunt has been bob rich's personal sec. for many years. When I lived in Buffalo we had 13 Sabres tickets just about every game for free and sold the extra's for beer / food money during the game. We only got 12 for Rich stadium but they always we're the best seats and the people around us always thought we we're relatives, which was kind of funny.

His other aunt was linda pellegrino who was on the news. I have no idea what's she is doing now but she was always cool (always had good booze too).

[THATHURMANATOR]

Wait I party with Bob Rich all the time and he said he already has the deal in place for the Bills.

:rolleyes:

[Meathead]

And sick of all of the people that act like their soup got peed in!
or spit in

then you could call it spit pee soup. mmm

[RockStar36]

If he's going to do what Ralph never could I'm all for it.

I don't see why he wouldn't.

The thing with Jim Kelly is that he has always wanted to be a winner at every level and didn't want to accept anything less.

I think that playoffs would be a normal part of the conversation for Bills fans if Kelly was part of the ownership unlike now.

[HHURRICANE]

LOL You don't know Bob Rich man LOL

That would be crazy wouldn't it?

Yes, I have met the man on more than one occassion with his wife Mindy. Bob Rich is not someone, IMO, who seems motivated to own an NFL franchise nor would be willing to put the cash out there to do it.

He's a pretty down to earth guy to be an NFL owner.

[THATHURMANATOR]

LOL you have met him 3 times and have diagnosed he doesn't want to buy the bills... LOL

[HHURRICANE]

LOL you have met him 3 times and have diagnosed he doesn't want to buy the bills... LOL

Better than throwing his name out there without any clue.

[Wys Guy]

I missed part of it, but he talked about the Bills staying in WNY.

The short version is that he and Jack Kemp have investors lined up to buy the team and keep them in WNY. He also talked about a waterfront stadium.

He has talked to Ralph about this plan. He understands (and respects) Ralph's wishes and pointed out that if Ralph was only interested in money he would have sold the team long ago.

Basically he sounded confidant that he and Kemp can buy the team when necessary.

Naturally an analysis of the economic climate in NYS and more specifically in WNY didn't factor into the discussion, did it?

Having said that, I suppose of Ralph wants to sell the team at far below market value then the team has a shot at leaving it here. Still, investors would want an appropriate return on whatever money they too invested, unless of course none of the investors mind losing their shirts merely for nostalgic purposes. Whether Wilson will take such little remains to be seen.

Everyone has to keep in mind that Wilson has not made money after buying this team for $400 million. He bought it for $25K, as in thousand. He can't possibly lose money overall and the fact that he keeps crying about not making any makes investors buying the team for ~$600M to $1B and keeping it here in Buffalo absurd. The interest and/or opportunity cost alone are enough to make this a laughable proposal to all but the nation's richest people that have the money to make it a hobby of sorts. Even so, when they can make it a hobby elsewhere and make money that becomes an obstacle too.

Think about it, 10% of only $600M is $60M annually. 5% is $30M. If Ralph's making that then why's he been bawling his eyes out in recent seasons. Up the cost and the scenario becomes even more absurd.

Even so, Kelly and Kemp can say what they want to, it must all pass through the other owners and I simply don't see that scenario unfolding under any circumstances.

As to the Waterfront, LOL, if that were going to be developed and worth an infinitely smaller investment there, then it'd have been done already. The fact that it hasn't been should be all the flag that is necessary in the economic/financial considerations otherwise.

It's good to hope and dream, but in this case it's merely a pipe dream. I'm sure that Kelly's sincere however. He too is probably seeking relevance in the post-Kelly era Bills.

[Mitchy moo]

Naturally an analysis of the economic climate in NYS and more specifically in WNY didn't factor into the discussion, did it?

Having said that, I suppose of Ralph wants to sell the team at far below market value then the team has a shot at leaving it here. Still, investors would want an appropriate return on whatever money they too invested, unless of course none of the investors mind losing their shirts merely for nostalgic purposes. Whether Wilson will take such little remains to be seen.

Even so, Kelly and Kemp can say what they want to, it must all pass through the other owners and I simply don't see that scenario unfolding under any circumstances.

As to the Waterfront, LOL, if that were going to be developed and worth an infinitely smaller investment there, then it'd have been done already. The fact that it hasn't been should be all the flag that is necessary in the economic/financial considerations otherwise.

It's good to hope and dream, but in this case it's merely a pipe dream. I'm sure that Kelly's sincere however. He too is probably seeking relevance in the post-Kelly era Bills.

Alot of buildings are being purchased downtown, I could see a waterfront stadium by the old shooters.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Well everybody WYS is on the scene.

We were all wrong "AS USUAL". The Bills are a goner and we are idiots for thinking otherwise....

THREAD OVER!

[trapezeus]

if the almighty dollar rules, then wouldn't a potential owner hate the fact that they'd have to pony up over market value of $800MM just to take ownership of the team, and then have the cash liquidity to run the pay roll of the team.

I could give you my resume as to why i know this, but there is no reason for you to believe me. but you should trust the number of people who keep saying that literally, there are only a handful of people who can straight out buy an NFL team and not worry about cash liquidity for day to day operations, and moreover, not worry about how quickly they can get it to be profitable. Even the uber rich, they hold such tiny cash positions in regards to their total wealth. So if you have $5bn, chances are because you hold a concentrated majority in one company. and you try to sell at a steady pace as to not upset the market. if you sell too fast, people panic and your $5BN drops pretty fast.

this has to be down through a group, and just like how quinn was able to cut through the redtape for golly and get the deal done, kelly, kemp and any other athlete whether its to keep tht team in buffalo or not, adds a lot of cache to potential owners.

[Kelly The Dog]

Better than throwing his name out there without any clue.
So he inarguably wanted to own a major league baseball team but is too down to earth to own an NFL team?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Better than throwing his name out there without any clue.
I was joking though. You were serious. That is the funny thing about it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

So he inarguably wanted to own a major league baseball team but is too down to earth to own an NFL team?
Listen Kelly. HHURRICANE has met Bob Rich on 3 separate occasions.

[Mr. Pink]

So something Bob Rich wanted 15 years ago has any relevancy to today?

is that what you're implying.

[Kelly The Dog]

Listen Kelly. HHURRICANE has met Bob Rich on 3 separate occasions.
That's how they getcha! They pull you in, usually in 3 minute intervals of small talk with their wives at social events every couple of years.

[Kelly The Dog]

So something Bob Rich wanted 15 years ago has any relevancy to today?

is that what you're implying.
All I am saying is given the two choices, 1] anecdotally hearing he is "too much of a down to earth guy" to own an NFL team, and 2] knowing for a fact that he actively pursued owning an MLB team 15 years ago, it's less far fetched to think that he COULD be interested in owning an NFL than he has NO interest in it because he's so down to earth.

[Mr. Pink]

All I am saying is given the two choices, 1] anecdotally hearing he is "too much of a down to earth guy" to own an NFL team, and 2] knowing for a fact that he actively pursued owning an MLB team 15 years ago, it's less far fetched to think that he COULD be interested in owning an NFL than he has NO interest in it because he's so down to earth.

Apples and oranges man.

The Rockies were purchased for 95 million dollars back in 1992.

Maybe Rich wanted to get into something that would cost 95 million thinking he could make a big profit. The Rockies have made a good profit in that time frame from 95 million to 304 million, according to Forbes. Rich might have been thinking business wise he could turn a short term investment into something that would make him a ton of money.

There's a huge difference between spending 95 million to own something outright than at least 410 million to just be a majority owner and still split profits.

On top of the fact 15 years changes a lot of how you look at things.

[THATHURMANATOR]

On top of the fact 15 years changes a lot of how you look at things.

Right now he may be more focused on LARGE investments in long term markets.

[trapezeus]

95 million in 1992 dollars is a sizable investment. Think, in 1992, the Dow was at 3300. Now it's near 14,000. I'm guessing Rich has done ok.

I'm not even a guy suggesting he's part of the ownership structure. i believe that there are investors who can be persuaded that owning the Bills in Buffalo makes good economic sense since the infrastructure is in place and there are plenty of marketing opportunities with toronto, rochester, albany and syracuse, plus the number of fans who visitwhen their team plays buffalo. The risk of staying here is much lower than trying to move it somewhere else and try to start over again.

[Mr. Pink]

95 million in 1992 dollars is a sizable investment. Think, in 1992, the Dow was at 3300. Now it's near 14,000. I'm guessing Rich has done ok.

I'm not even a guy suggesting he's part of the ownership structure. i believe that there are investors who can be persuaded that owning the Bills in Buffalo makes good economic sense since the infrastructure is in place and there are plenty of marketing opportunities with toronto, rochester, albany and syracuse, plus the number of fans who visitwhen their team plays buffalo. The risk of staying here is much lower than trying to move it somewhere else and try to start over again.

I disagree with your thinking of moving a team elsewhere is risky. When a new area gets a team the teams profits go up exponentially. The stadium no matter the size sells out to being the franchise's new tenure...people are always enamored with something that is new. On top of the PSL costs most franchises seek now. And would moving this team to say Toronto really make a difference marketting wise? No matter where a team plays is gonna attract some visiting fans too. The NFL is largely regionalized in many aspects like that. Hence why all the divisional foes for the most part are so close in proximity to one another. Notice I said for the most part, why Miami was ever placed in a division with us baffles me.

A newly moved team usually does well in the short-term, it's the long term that's a different story. Listening to what Ralphy says, one would think the team is failing here. Which we all know as Buffalonians isn't true. But that's the image he tries to convey.

And I still disagree with you on LA. The Raiders were successful there, Al Davis was just an idiot who used LA and then Oakland to extort money out of each city. Then the Rams left due to the fanbase being split between the Raiders and them. The Rams were a very viable franchise in LA for a long time, until the Raiders came in.

[Kelly The Dog]

95 million in 1992 dollars is a sizable investment. Think, in 1992, the Dow was at 3300. Now it's near 14,000. I'm guessing Rich has done ok.

I'm not even a guy suggesting he's part of the ownership structure. i believe that there are investors who can be persuaded that owning the Bills in Buffalo makes good economic sense since the infrastructure is in place and there are plenty of marketing opportunities with toronto, rochester, albany and syracuse, plus the number of fans who visitwhen their team plays buffalo. The risk of staying here is much lower than trying to move it somewhere else and try to start over again.
That is what I am thinking. I'm not talking about one guy buying the team but rather ten of them, or 50 of them. And I just originally mentioned Rich as an example of a wealthy guy who MAY want a PIECE of the team.

Actually, I never would have mentioned Rich at all knowing only about the baseball venture because he didn't have enough money to do it then. Within the last year I read an article about him saying that Rich Products was doing amazingly well and his personal worth was over a billion dollars. I was shocked, although I don't know if it is true or not.

Still, I also know for a fact a lot of people want to own NFL franchises and are putting together groups such as these. They want to do it for various reasons, and "making as much money as possible" is 2-3 down on the list. At the top of the list for a lot of them is ego stroking of how cool would it be to have part of an NFL franchise, and how cool would it be to own part of the team you love in the city you love.

[shelby]

I missed part of it, but he talked about the Bills staying in WNY.

The short version is that he and Jack Kemp have investors lined up to buy the team and keep them in WNY. He also talked about a waterfront stadium.

He has talked to Ralph about this plan. He understands (and respects) Ralph's wishes and pointed out that if Ralph was only interested in money he would have sold the team long ago.

Basically he sounded confidant that he and Kemp can buy the team when necessary.
Now THAT would be :curse:ing sweet!!!!!
:up:

[Pride]

Former Bills quarterback Jim Kelly said, "He knows how serious, not only Jack Kemp, but myself are, about keeping the Bills in Western New York. And I'll tell you what, I know the people, I know a couple of people that have come to me and have the money to pay it in cash. I guess the best thing I can say is that I will do everything in my power to make sure the people I align myself with and the people Jack Kemp aligns himself with makes sure that team stays here in Western New York."

http://www.wivb.com/global/story.asp?s=7325748

[trapezeus]

I disagree with your thinking of moving a team elsewhere is risky. When a new area gets a team the teams profits go up exponentially. The stadium no matter the size sells out to being the franchise's new tenure...people are always enamored with something that is new. On top of the PSL costs most franchises seek now. And would moving this team to say Toronto really make a difference marketting wise? No matter where a team plays is gonna attract some visiting fans too. The NFL is largely regionalized in many aspects like that. Hence why all the divisional foes for the most part are so close in proximity to one another. Notice I said for the most part, why Miami was ever placed in a division with us baffles me.

A newly moved team usually does well in the short-term, it's the long term that's a different story. Listening to what Ralphy says, one would think the team is failing here. Which we all know as Buffalonians isn't true. But that's the image he tries to convey.

And I still disagree with you on LA. The Raiders were successful there, Al Davis was just an idiot who used LA and then Oakland to extort money out of each city. Then the Rams left due to the fanbase being split between the Raiders and them. The Rams were a very viable franchise in LA for a long time, until the Raiders came in.

So it sounds like we are saying the same thing in some ways. moving doesn't equate to long term success. I know from my professional experience that the days of most counties willing to finance stadium deals with sweet heart carve outs for the owners is essentially dead. As a result, owners need to pony up to make the finances work. Even if they pay 10% of a stadium deal, that's a lot of cash to spend out. I also know that banks on a whole are reluctant to do stadium deals because they rarely cover the expenses

I'll disagree with you about LA. LA now is not the same LA it was 30 years ago, or even 10 years ago. They have focused their attention even more so to entertainment. LA has gone from big city with diversity in economic scales, to small city of rich socialites with millions trying to make it to that level. As a result the everday folk around LA want to spend their money on items that make them "it" people or look like "it" people. They want the restaurants, the shows, the clubs, etc. As a result, sitting in a stadium with 40,000 to 60,000 extra people isn't that prestigious. It doesn't move them forward. And for those who have to pick between super cool event that can make or break you or go to a football game, they pick their career. I don't think you'll be able to have a sold out stadium because there are plenty of other things Los Angelians would rather do.

[Mitchy moo]

Apples and oranges man.

The Rockies were purchased for 95 million dollars back in 1992.

Maybe Rich wanted to get into something that would cost 95 million thinking he could make a big profit. The Rockies have made a good profit in that time frame from 95 million to 304 million, according to Forbes. Rich might have been thinking business wise he could turn a short term investment into something that would make him a ton of money.

There's a huge difference between spending 95 million to own something outright than at least 410 million to just be a majority owner and still split profits.

On top of the fact 15 years changes a lot of how you look at things.

You think?

In 1992--

<TABLE class=smallgold width=250><TBODY><TR><TD width=150>Gallon of Gas </TD><TD width=100>$1.05 </TD></TR><TR><TD width=150>1 LB of Bacon </TD><TD width=100>$1.92 </TD></TR><TR><TD width=150>Average cost of new car</TD><TD width=100>$16,950.00 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Gunzlingr]

Minnesota is owned by Zygi Wylf's ownership group.

[Kelly The Dog]

BTW, Forbes now lists Robert Rich, Jr. as being worth $2.5 billion. And a "sports fanatic". I didn't know he tried out for the Olympic Hockey team in 1964. He could easily afford it.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/54/richlist07_Robert-Rich-Jr_DR48.html

[YardRat]

I hope they can pull it off. I heard part of the show, also, this morning and he certainly sounded confident to me.

[im4bflo]

Kelly and Kemp would be greater hero's by pulling this off, than for QBing the BILLS! IMO! It sure is great to hear something this positive.
But the part when Jimbo said something about a new owner building a stadium by the waterfront, wouldn't that kill the tailgating, or is there room somewhere for both? But then, anything that keeps the BILLS in WNY, I'll adapt to it.

[Dr. Lecter]

http://www.97rock.com/audio/jimkelly.mp3

Audio link for those that did not hear it.

It takes a few minutes to load.

[HHURRICANE]

BTW, Forbes now lists Robert Rich, Jr. as being worth $2.5 billion. And a "sports fanatic". I didn't know he tried out for the Olympic Hockey team in 1964. He could easily afford it.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/54/richlist07_Robert-Rich-Jr_DR48.html

I didn't realize he was worth that much. I owe him and Thurm an apology. This is one of the most unassuming people you will ever meet. Wow.

[Nighthawk]

Ralph's family will sell the team to the highest bidder. It's only worth 800MM in Buffalo. It's over 1 Billion in the open market. Benson had an offer of over 1 Billion in 2005 for the Saints.

Wilson's kids don't need Jim Kelly and Jack Kemp to bridge any kind of Gap. In addition no potential owner, even if he's local, needs Jim Kelly to help facilitate a deal. From a marketing standpoint the Bills already sell out games with a crappy team so Jim Kelly brings nothing.

Guys the almighty dollar rules. I love how Bob Rich got brought up in this whole thing. Do you actually know these people because I do and you are talking out of your butts.

There only 32 teams in arguably the best league in the world. You don't think that there aren't going to be a few people interested in this team??

Ahh, another person who left Buffalo telling us how bad it is. For one thing, the only reason this team is worth more is because value is determined by adding everything up and that includes stadiums. IMO, for this team to stick in Buffalo, then a new stadium must be built and it sound like Kelly knows this. It sounds like there is already some behind the scenes dealings going on and I'm happy for that.

[Typ0]

Ahh, another person who left Buffalo telling us how bad it is. For one thing, the only reason this team is worth more is because value is determined by adding everything up and that includes stadiums. IMO, for this team to stick in Buffalo, then a new stadium must be built and it sound like Kelly knows this. It sounds like there is already some behind the scenes dealings going on and I'm happy for that.

Wrong, value is the net present value of all future cash flows. It is pretty bad in buffalo so you are wrong on both accounts.

[Typ0]

Kelly and Kemp would be greater hero's by pulling this off, than for QBing the BILLS! IMO! It sure is great to hear something this positive.
But the part when Jimbo said something about a new owner building a stadium by the waterfront, wouldn't that kill the tailgating, or is there room somewhere for both? But then, anything that keeps the BILLS in WNY, I'll adapt to it.


there is loads of room for tailgating there!

[im4bflo]

there is loads of room for tailgating there!

Excellent!!! Then it's ALL good!!!

[Nighthawk]

Wrong, value is the net present value of all future cash flows. It is pretty bad in buffalo so you are wrong on both accounts.

It isn't as bad as people make it out to be. As I've mentioned in the past, I am in the Staffing field and see on a daily basis what is going on on the employment front. It has started to get better in the past year or so, but the constant negative press is all anybody hears. Honestly, it isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

[Kelly The Dog]

Wrong, value is the net present value of all future cash flows. It is pretty bad in buffalo so you are wrong on both accounts.
No, he's right. The "value" of NFL franchises has a lot to do with the stadiums as he says. The Bills have a great stadium deal, which adds value to their team, but they lose a lot of money because of their stadium, which lessens a lot of its value compared to other teams. Eventually they will need a new stadium, which will immediately jettison the value of the franchise way up. The reason the Redskins were the biggest valued team was because Snyder owned the stadium. They are to become second place to the Cowboys because of the new stadium.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Buffalo-Bills_301765.html

[TigerJ]

Guys, you are dreaming if you think Kelly and Kemp and their investors are ending up with this team.

It may stay in Buffalo but it won't be with either one of these two in the purchase agreement.

Just so you know the NFL would most likely not approve a group buying this team. So unless Kelly has an extra billion laying around it aint happening.I think the NFL will accept a group ownership as long as there is a clear lead owner. This would probably be a majority owner, who acts on behalf of the team in its relationship with the league. They don't want to be dealing with a committee at league owner meetings. They want one guy who can speak for the team and know that it carries authority.

[Typ0]

No, he's right. The "value" of NFL franchises has a lot to do with the stadiums as he says. The Bills have a great stadium deal, which adds value to their team, but they lose a lot of money because of their stadium, which lessens a lot of its value compared to other teams. Eventually they will need a new stadium, which will immediately jettison the value of the franchise way up. The reason the Redskins were the biggest valued team was because Snyder owned the stadium. They are to become second place to the Cowboys because of the new stadium.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/30/biz_07nfl_Buffalo-Bills_301765.html

I'm not wrong. All you did was summarize some components of their cash flows. Of course building a stadium, ticket prices, luxury boxes all have something to do with their cash flows.

[Kelly The Dog]

I'm not wrong. All you did was summarize some components of their cash flows. Of course building a stadium, ticket prices, luxury boxes all have something to do with their cash flows.
First you're wrong because you said he was wrong, which he wasn't. The value of NFL teams isn't necessarily the formula that other things use for "value". A lot of it has to do with who owns the stadium, what deal they have with the city, how much debt there is on the stadium, etc. It's not all cash flows. Read the link. It breaks down the value into four categories, the sport, the individual market, the individual stadium deal, and the brand management. Not all of those are cash flows. For example, the "sport" makes each team automatically worth over 550 million. It;s because of the strength of the NFL but doesnt necessarily equal 550 million in cash flow.

[Oaf]

So would this team be owned sorta like how the Packers are owned?

[Kelly The Dog]

So would this team be owned sorta like how the Packers are owned?
That is not allowed in the league anymore. This team will be officially owned by one person, that person will have bought (at least) 33-35% of the team from Ralph. That is a league rule, one person has to own at least that much (I just can't remember whether it is 33% or 35%). After that, there can be any number of minority owners, putting in various amounts of money into the pot. Their percentage ownership will just be how much they put in versus the total package. Kelly and Kemp will be two of these other guys, but there could be 10-20 or more of them. Some guys may own 1% or 5% or 10% or 20% depending on how much cash they put in for the 800 million plus sale.

Kelly and Kemp, however, could have a lot more power in the ownership or management group, despite what actual cash they put in. I doubt either of them has 100 million but who knows. But they could be given a lot of say in the decision making by the board or the majority owner, who put in that 35%. The NFL will recognize one person as "the owner" at owner meetings and the like.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Guys enough arguing already. NONE of us are experts on these topics. Bottom line is the Bills are staying in Buffalo. I CAN FEEL IT!!!!

[blackonyx89]

Ralph Wilson,the answer to keeping the Bills here is right in front of your face!!! How can you not let Jim Kelly and Jack Kemp buy the Bills?

These two guys (as well as other Bills greats) help you make the millions you have now. Be smart and let them buy it to keep the team here!!! I pray that he's smart enough to realize this. $650,000,000 or is more than enough for his keep his family happy!!!

:pray:

[Mitchy moo]

. $650,000,000 or is more than enough for his keep his family happy!!!



Are you part of his family?? If not how can you or anyone possibly know this to be true?? Everyone needs to just relax and let Jimbo do his thing if he can.

[BidsJr]

Is their any reason that Ralph couldn't sell like 10% of the franchise to Jim and Jack, so they would have first opportunity to put group together after Ralph passes?

[blackonyx89]

Are you part of his family?? If not how can you or anyone possibly know this to be true?? Everyone needs to just relax and let Jimbo do his thing if he can.

No,I'm not part of his family but I'd like to be adopted to get a cut!!!

:biggrin:

[Typ0]

First you're wrong because you said he was wrong, which he wasn't. The value of NFL teams isn't necessarily the formula that other things use for "value". A lot of it has to do with who owns the stadium, what deal they have with the city, how much debt there is on the stadium, etc. It's not all cash flows. Read the link. It breaks down the value into four categories, the sport, the individual market, the individual stadium deal, and the brand management. Not all of those are cash flows. For example, the "sport" makes each team automatically worth over 550 million. It;s because of the strength of the NFL but doesnt necessarily equal 550 million in cash flow.

that's where you are wrong as well. The power of the NFL is being factored in the cash flow's and in turn being used to determine the value of the franchise. The "sport" is not worth 550M. It's the brand equity and marketing power of the sport that makes it worth 550M. Those things have that value because of what they can charge for advertising space and tickets. That is how things are determined in a free market society. It's called the capital asset pricing model and is the best model we have...the one the billionairres used to become billionaires and stay that way.

[Philagape]

Mark Gaughan lays out the ownership rules here:
http://buffalonews.typepad.com/billboard/2007/11/kelly-a-stadium.html

-- One investor must own at least 30 percent ($200-300 million)
-- An investment group can be no larger than 25 people