IF JP beat New England

[Tatonka]

would it change how you feel about him at all?

that would put him on a 4 game win streak and really put us in position to be a playoff team..

lets say he put up 2 tds, 1 int and threw for 200 yards.. and the d plays good.. we get a special teams td.. and lynch scores.. we win 31 to 28.

would you still hate him?

[BILLSROCK1212]

as long as he wins games i am fine with him

[BillsFever21]

No it wouldn't. It would be A, B and C why we won the game.

[Crisis]

It'd give him the rest of the year to show what he has.

[Tatonka]

No it wouldn't. It would be A, B and C why we won the game.

if it went down how i described it.. basically he played good.. lynch played good.. and special teams and defense made some plays.

[kinigirly]

if jp beat new england, and he had alot to do with the win, i would offer my unborn first child to him, shovel his lawn during winter, whatever he wants. i know ralph isn't gonna keep him so i will have to dig into my own pockets for securing such a sweet victory that will have to substitute for a championship until that day comes

[gr8slayer]

Come on Tonk. You know the answer to this question.

[Tatonka]

just wondering how biased people have become.. how far gone people are past winning.. winning doesnt matter as long as their guy gets on the field.

[gr8slayer]

just wondering how biased people have become.. how far gone people are past winning.. winning doesnt matter as long as their guy gets on the field.
You know all the answers. There are people who are "fans" and then there are people who are fans. Some of us root for the team no matter who the QB is, and some of us root for the team only when the other QB is playing.

You've been here long enough to know that.

[Crisis]

just wondering how biased people have become.. how far gone people are past winning.. winning doesnt matter as long as their guy gets on the field.


You and dj were the main ones complaining when we won with Edwards, you can't have it both ways.

[gr8slayer]

You and dj were the main ones complaining when we won with Edwards, you can't have it both ways.
It's pretty sad when people complain about any win.

[imbondz]

would it change how you feel about him at all?

that would put him on a 4 game win streak and really put us in position to be a playoff team..

lets say he put up 2 tds, 1 int and threw for 200 yards.. and the d plays good.. we get a special teams td.. and lynch scores.. we win 31 to 28.

would you still hate him?

I just think it's funny that even in a fantasy win you're only giving Losman 200 yds.

It's going to take a 300 yd day to beat the Pats

[djjimkelly]

You and dj were the main ones complaining when we won with Edwards, you can't have it both ways.


i was truly happy we won.

i have nothing against edwards i just know JP has way more upside. i like edwards as the backup becuz at least i know he wont be lost.

[mikemac2001]

. i like edwards as the backup becuz at least i know he wont be lost.


I like that comment

Thats how i feel i dont want to quit on him midway threw the season and see him go on to a great career

and i know he has had his chance but he was a young qb with a bad team and bad coached team

i think we are much better now then with murlarky

[Johnny Bugmenot]

IF JP beat New England


LOL... please ... stop... you are absolutely killing me! :lmao:

[Ebenezer]

just wondering how biased people have become.. how far gone people are past winning.. winning doesnt matter as long as their guy gets on the field.
remember the way you felt about DB....that's how folks are against JP...regardless what he does he has now been labeled.

[Mudflap1]

One game at a time. My take is to not treat the quarterbacks any different than you would treat any position. Where everything is at right now, Losman starts against NE because he gives the Bills the best chance to win that game. If he beats NE, I'll be proud of him and happy with the performance, but I won't be shooting guns in the air in the parking lot like a lot of the posters here, who were also ready to hang him after the Miami game. You just have to take everything in stride and be even-keeled. If Losman looks completely pathetic in the NE game, I'd put in Edwards (if the coaches deem him ready) in the 2nd half and let him show what he can do.

I guess what I'm saying is the old Al Davis saying from the 70s "it's better to be right at the moment than be consistent". Let's just see how this game pans out, then the next game, then the game after that. It's too hard to predict the future with this team. Heck, after the Cincy game people were wondering if that was J.P.'s coming out party. Now this week a lot of the fans think he is worthless again (and the team won).

Jon

[mybills]

if jp beat new england, and he had alot to do with the win, i would offer my unborn first child to him, shovel his lawn during winter, whatever he wants. i know ralph isn't gonna keep him so i will have to dig into my own pockets for securing such a sweet victory that will have to substitute for a championship until that day comes
sure, you just wanna sleep with him. :D
I don't blame you! He's got one hot bod! :naughty:

[SquishDaFish]

Haters would say it was someone else that wont he game. Its always someone else in the Ws and its Losman in the losses.

[Mitchy moo]

I want the Bills to win.

[alohabillsfan]

I will say this IMO Trent Edwards gives us the best chance to beat NE, Why? To beat NE you have to control the ball (Like the Giants kept it out of Kelly's hand in SB XXV). The same way P. Manning kept the game close against NE, short passes move the chains. This is the specialty of TE not JP, JP is the risk taker and long bomb guy.

What we can't do is 3 and out and leave our defense on the field. We can only win this game if we keep NE 21 points any more and we lose.

I Like JP as a person but, we need TE's to control the clock IMHO. Thoughts?

[Inetpub]

So if we win, JP beat the Pats but if we lose, the team lost and JP is not to blame?

This is a team game. JP wont beat NE. JP will play vs them and we'll probably lose.

[SquishDaFish]

Inet thats not what he was trying to say bro.

[Tatonka]

when trent won, i was happy we won.. i wasnt happy that every win trent had, and the losses too actually.. he tried to give the game away in the 4th quarter with awful interceptions.. the jets game (the first one) he almost blew.. the ravens game, the dallas game.. all games where he chunked the ball to the opposing team and gave them a chance to win.. the games we won.. the defense pulled it out and got the stop... i never said i wasnt happy we won.. i just wasnt happy with 1td and 5 picks... and especially the timing of the picks.

but that is not the point.. i am just wondering if the bills won the game against the pats.. and jp had a good day.. would it change the way people felt about him..

honestly, i hope jp stays the starter, but i dont have a ton of confidence in him.. i have even less in trent edwards.. so jp to me right now is the lesser of two evils.. at least jp might score.. trent 1 int for every .20 tds isnt winning games.. controlling the clock is great if you end up scoring.. but he doesnt.

[colin]

trent MIGHT not be the guy, he prolly isn't.

jp just plainly isn't. he's not close to as good as bledsoe was with us (he has lower lows and lower highs than drew, with the same painful up and down play).

if jp goes on an absolute tear, i don't care about the stats, and plays well and beats new england and performs at a high level for the rest of the season then i'd be happy extending him for big $$$.

the thing is he hasn't had more than one or two drives in a row where he was good, let alone games vs good opponents.

jp would give us our best chance to win if he tucks it and runs about 12 times vs new england. he should be in shotgun at least half the time and we should run draws, pitches, screens, bombs, and qb runs.

instead though i expect him to hold the ball too long, never see the blitz, and make his moves late as always.

[HHURRICANE]

would it change how you feel about him at all?

that would put him on a 4 game win streak and really put us in position to be a playoff team..

lets say he put up 2 tds, 1 int and threw for 200 yards.. and the d plays good.. we get a special teams td.. and lynch scores.. we win 31 to 28.

would you still hate him?

I don't hate him and I would continue to support him in the 1 and out scenario that he's in now.

A win is a win.

Are you willing to stop loving on him and bench him if he stinks up the joint or will you give him the "he was playing NE" excuse.

[Kerr]

It wouldn't change how I feel about him. I think he's a good guy with a lot of talent, but he still won't be a bill beyond this season unless he somehow helped this team get to the superbowl and won it. Marv didn't draft Trent in the 3rd round with the intent of him being a backup in this league.

[Meathead]

i only give credit for wins to rookies who produce fgs and ints

[Pinkerton Security]

If JP would just play better against good D's...look at Miami's D, they are mediocre, maybe even bad IMO and he looked like he was playing an All-pro team. He needs to be more consistent before I ever see him as a long term solution.

until then im gonna enjoy the ride and thank god its BILLS SEASON!

[Michael82]

The haters would continue to call for Trent Edwards to start and give the win to the defense and Marshawn Lynch. :sigh:

[Tatonka]

I don't hate him and I would continue to support him in the 1 and out scenario that he's in now.

A win is a win.

Are you willing to stop loving on him and bench him if he stinks up the joint or will you give him the "he was playing NE" excuse.

if he sucks against new england and we get killed.. i say bench him.. now if he throws up great numbers and the defense lets us down and the running game is non existant.. then obviously i wouldnt say sit him.. but if he is clearly a large part of the reason we lost the game and has a game like he did against miami and we lose.. im fine with the benching.

[justasportsfan]

If JP would just play better against good D's...look at Miami's D, they are mediocre, maybe even bad IMO and he looked like he was playing an All-pro team. He needs to be more consistent before I ever see him as a long term solution.

until then im gonna enjoy the ride and thank god its BILLS SEASON!
I still think it's not just JP or Trent but Fairchild. Anyone can figure out Fairchilds gameplan.

[baalworship]

The Bills have invested a lot into JP and I want him to prove he is worth a contract extension (which he has not done yet). Winning against the Pats would definitely be a big step in the right direction.

[The last buffalo fan]

if he wins and plays well, I could still love him.

[justasportsfan]

I will say this IMO Trent Edwards gives us the best chance to beat NE, Why? To beat NE you have to control the ball (Like the Giants kept it out of Kelly's hand in SB XXV). The same way P. Manning kept the game close against NE, short passes move the chains. This is the specialty of TE not JP, JP is the risk taker and long bomb guy.

What we can't do is 3 and out and leave our defense on the field. We can only win this game if we keep NE 21 points any more and we lose.

I Like JP as a person but, we need TE's to control the clock IMHO. Thoughts?
It's the running games job to control the clock. Since we can't run we use our passing game to control the clock? There isn't a D that would love for our passing to nothing more than be a clock controller.

Dinking and dunking is what allowed us to beat teams like the jets. By taking away the deep ball , we beat the bengals. Making teams pay when they go deep is what almost made our team beat the cowboys. we in turn didn't win it on offense because we had no deep game against the cowboys.

Without Moss and the deep ball Brady would'nt be having a career season.

It may be one dimensional but if you take Lee away from the deep ball what other weapons do we have? Lee is the only thing we have unless a banged up Lynch has a miraculous career day against the PAts.

[Crisis]

What happens if JP looks absolutely terrible vs the Pats, 100 yards (mostly in garbage time), terrible sacks, and a couple INTs?

[shelby]

This board will promptly self-destruct.
:ill:

[don137]

IMO, one thing is apparent about Losman. He is not a consistent QB. You need consistency at that position. One game he looks like an absolute stud and everyone preaches how great he is, the next game he plays like he went to the Rob Johnson school of how to handle yourself in the pocket and graduated magna *** laude.
If he has a great game and pulls it out great but next week he unfortunately will break everyone's heart again.

[acehole]

It would be a turn the corner game not only for him but for the franchise.
If he could acheive a win it would end the qb debate..some will allways
find fault. I think JP has to prove he can win the big game. I don't think
there is a bigger game in his career then this. Having said this this is an
incredible high bar to set. He would do what Payton Manning could not with
less weapons....and to date an inferior defense. There is a mood about
this game and this team I can not explain. They have character and fight
that go beyond talent right now. I cant wait for kick off....



that would put him on a 4 game win streak and really put us in position to be a playoff team..

lets say he put up 2 tds, 1 int and threw for 200 yards.. and the d plays good.. we get a special teams td.. and lynch scores.. we win 31 to 28.

would you still hate him?[/quote]

[BAM]

He'd be my hero for sure.

[Philagape]

The haters would continue to call for Trent Edwards to start and give the win to the defense and Marshawn Lynch. :sigh:

Serious question: How much has been said about JP that he hasn't earned or isn't true?

[acehole]

Serious question: How much has been said about JP that he hasn't earned or isn't true?

Putting wins and losses on qb's is dumb..on both accounts.
The uneducated say a teams record and say whoever is 4-5.
When you dig deeper you see there is more to winning and
losing then the qb. I dont have a losman jersey..but I am
smart enough to know when a bad game is called or when
a reciever cant catch a cold. ...or Defense cant stop the
run...or we dont have wr beyond L Evans...we put our qbs
in these situation it is a wonder we get any wins....

[Philagape]

Putting wins and losses on qb's is dumb..on both accounts.
The uneducated say a teams record and say whoever is 4-5.
When you dig deeper you see there is more to winning and
losing then the qb. I dont have a losman jersey..but I am
smart enough to know when a bad game is called or when
a reciever cant catch a cold. ...or Defense cant stop the
run...or we dont have wr beyond L Evans...we put our qbs
in these situation it is a wonder we get any wins....

So then you'd say that the record over the past three games is irrelevant as far as the QB?

[patmoran2006]

would it change how you feel about him at all?

that would put him on a 4 game win streak and really put us in position to be a playoff team..

lets say he put up 2 tds, 1 int and threw for 200 yards.. and the d plays good.. we get a special teams td.. and lynch scores.. we win 31 to 28.

would you still hate him?
To answer your question, yes it would change the way I feel about him.

If we beat NE, because of Losman and not in spite of him. Then it would change the way I feel about him. He has to show he can play huge and lead his team to win in a huge game- he hasn't come close to doing that yet, so this is his shot.

We're never going to be a Super Bowl contender until we have a QB that can win big games. Between NE and at Jacksonville next week (which will be like a playoff game for us)- let's see what he can do.

But to be honest, if he stinks up the field against NE in prime time, I think his Bills career is over, and if that happens, deservedly so.

[Mr. Cynical]

would it change how you feel about him at all?

that would put him on a 4 game win streak and really put us in position to be a playoff team..

lets say he put up 2 tds, 1 int and threw for 200 yards.. and the d plays good.. we get a special teams td.. and lynch scores.. we win 31 to 28.

would you still hate him?
One game does not a player make or break. So far he's shown nothing this year to convince me he is worth keeping as our starter. If he has a "blip" and plays well against NE, he'll have to do it for the rest of this season for me to say "he's our guy" going forward.

This is his 4th year and he's not where he should be IMHO for a true starting QB to lead us all the way (at least with this team)

[G. Host]

Teams win or lose not players.
QBs can play well or not well.

[acehole]

So then you'd say that the record over the past three games is irrelevant as far as the QB?

Yes I am saying that a way. I think he had alot to do with the win at Cini and NYJ,,,but not the Dolfins. The Dofins game I did see a ton of dropped balls but he made some bad plays. I did not say the qb is irrelevant you did...but JP did score TD's enough to win games. You do need to outscore your opponent and keep him from scoring as well... People put to much emphasis on the postion was my piont.

[acehole]

Trent Dilfer.


To answer your question, yes it would change the way I feel about him.

If we beat NE, because of Losman and not in spite of him. Then it would change the way I feel about him. He has to show he can play huge and lead his team to win in a huge game- he hasn't come close to doing that yet, so this is his shot.

We're never going to be a Super Bowl contender until we have a QB that can win big games. Between NE and at Jacksonville next week (which will be like a playoff game for us)- let's see what he can do.

But to be honest, if he stinks up the field against NE in prime time, I think his Bills career is over, and if that happens, deservedly so.

[acehole]

One game does not a player make or break. So far he's shown nothing this year to convince me he is worth keeping as our starter. If he has a "blip" and plays well against NE, he'll have to do it for the rest of this season for me to say "he's our guy" going forward.

This is his 4th year and he's not where he should be IMHO for a true starting QB to lead us all the way (at least with this team)

OK but are you saying Trend has...just asking?

[justasportsfan]

, yes it would change the way I feel about him.
. if I had a zonebuck everytime that happened I'd make fat tony look like a bum.

[dannyek71]

For Buf to win, JP is going to have to play a heck of a game. Even an average game stat-wise against a defense that good is enough for me.

[HotRod]

How about if the BILLS beat New England........ instead of a if a "SINGLE PLAYER" beats an "entire team" all by himself?

Of course, I did read an article about how Lee Evans was the difference in wins/loss NOT either one of the qb's. I'll see if I can find the link.

[HotRod]

Opponents Keying in on Lee
What's been the fastest, most efficient way to shut down Buffalo's offense this season? Eliminate Lee Evans from the passing game. It doesn't matter how it's done - if it happens, the Bills flounder. Just take a look at the eye-popping numbers:

Evans in 5 Victories: 29 receptions, 538 yards, 2 TD
Evans in 4 Losses: 6 catches, 41 yards, 0 TD

There's not much more convincing to do than that - at least for me. You can blame the QB carousel, you can blame the play-calling, and you can blame the lack of options outside of Lynch and Evans. The stats prove it: teams are most effective against the Bills when they turn Evans into a non-factor. Do I really need to convince you that Bill Belichick is fully aware of this?



link (http://www.buffalorumblings.com/story/2007/11/13/20829/962)

[trapezeus]

i was truly happy we won.

i have nothing against edwards i just know JP has way more upside. i like edwards as the backup becuz at least i know he wont be lost.

how can you make a claim like that? i think most people would look at a 3 year track record as a pretty indicative statement on one's ability. JP beats poor teams, and he seems to get razzled by the better teams.

When teams take away what he was suppose to do, JP never adjusts. in the handful of games edwards plays, he takes what he gets and he moves the chains. and he's a rookie.

All that being said, i want the BILLS to win against the Pats. and if JP makes me eat crow and plays well enough to win, that's great. But if he blows it royally, like he historically has, the debate about JP's ability to get better and being handcuffed needs to come to an end.

All of us Bills fans want this game like nothing else. and i honestly don't care who leads this team to better days. but the proof seems to be that JP won't be that guy.

[justasportsfan]

but the proof seems to be that JP won't be that guy.

then who? Edwards?

[BillsFever21]

in the handful of games edwards plays, he takes what he gets and he moves the chains. and he's a rookie.





Great post. His 30% 3rd down completion rate has to be close to tops in the league. I don't see any other teams capable of converting 4 out 12 3rd down attempts during the game. Or the 77 yards and 3 INT's worth of passing in the 4th quarter. He has defintely shown to be a clutch player in his short amount of time.

This bogus claims of "moving the chains" is the biggest pile of junk and myth of all of them. The facts prove otherwise but we still hear it 100 times a day. That is unless you feel 30% is a good conversion rate.

[Philagape]

Great post. His 30% 3rd down completion rate has to be close to tops in the league. I don't see any other teams capable of converting 4 out 12 3rd down attempts during the game. Or the 77 yards and 3 INT's worth of passing in the 4th quarter. He has defintely shown to be a clutch player in his short amount of time.

This bogus claims of "moving the chains" is the biggest pile of junk and myth of all of them. The facts prove otherwise but we still hear it 100 times a day. That is unless you feel 30% is a good conversion rate.

I haven't checked the NFL rulebook lately, but you do know that it's possible to move the chains on downs other than third down, right?

I would think the best way to see if a QB moves the chains is to see how many passes a QB throws that result in first downs. Let's look at the facts:

JP: 37 first downs by passing out of 109 total attempts. 33.0 percent
Trent: 44 first downs by passing out of 121 attempts. 36.4 percent

The facts show that Trent gains first downs by passing -- he moves the chains -- at a higher rate than JP.

The myth is more accurate than your lies.


I don't see any other teams capable of converting 4 out 12 3rd down attempts during the game.

We were 2-10 against Miami, does that count?

[Yasgur's Farm]

This is a team game. JP wont beat NE. JP will play vs them and we'll probably lose. http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2169944#post2169944

I find it funny people post RECORD AGAINST REAL TEAMS 1-2. Thats stooping to idiocy.

We can say that about Loserman. Record against real teams 0-24 since hes beaten the texans 3 times and the jets and miami. So that means hes really got 0 wins. http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2169769#post2169769

8-24 is what doomed JP. http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2167549#post2167549

we were playoff bound with losman?? whats your analysis based on? his 0-2 start? :fishy: :fishy: :fishy: :fishy: :fishy: :fishy: :fishy: :fishy:

[acehole]

Ahh I see so you found a stat that proves without a doubt that JP is the lesser of the 2 qbs.

He is 2.6% better at getting first downs.

Wow that is terrific.

Who has more TD's?
Who has more INt's?
Who has more yards?
Who has a better 3rd down %.
Who has a better passer rating.
Who can thow a TD pass longer
then 3 yards?

Who has more wins?
(I know this is what they hand their hat on prior to the Miami game.)

There is nothing about Trend Edward that is better and yet they still make the claim....Insane.



I haven't checked the NFL rulebook lately, but you do know that it's possible to move the chains on downs other than third down, right?

I would think the best way to see if a QB moves the chains is to see how many passes a QB throws that result in first downs. Let's look at the facts:

JP: 37 first downs by passing out of 109 total attempts. 33.0 percent
Trent: 44 first downs by passing out of 121 attempts. 36.4 percent

The facts show that Trent gains first downs by passing -- he moves the chains -- at a higher rate than JP.

The myth is more accurate than your lies.



We were 2-10 against Miami, does that count?

[Philagape]

There is nothing about Trend Edward that is better and yet they still make the claim....Insane.

This is where you're completely misunderstanding.

I'm not making a case for Trent at all. You assume that because in your world it's nothing but us vs. them with no room for a complex argument or the idea that neither is the answer right now.

I was responding to yet another misleading argument. What does it say about JP that the only case people can make for him is to trash the other guy? It shows JP has nothing of his own to boast about.

My position is neither QB is a good option. Both have strengths, both have weaknesses, both have things which they're better at than the other, both have bad coaching, both have bad receivers.

The correct answer is the grand debate is neither. So to me, it's not JP vs. Trent; I'm arguing neither vs. JP-worshiping lies.

[Novacane]

i was truly happy we won.

i have nothing against edwards i just know JP has way more upside.

You base this opinion on what?

[Novacane]

If JP can pull off this miracle I'll shut up about him and support him as starter for the rest of the year. Contrary to what some dumb ass know it alls say, us fans who are not sold on Losman do not want to lose with him. I've just seen enough to be pretty sure he's never gonna be consistant.
I actually was a big enough sucker to think maybe, just maybe he had turned a corner against Cinci. Then he had to come out and play like **** against a **** team. I expected that kind of play this week. I thought he'd have a good game against Miami.

[shelby]

So did i. He looked terrible against Miami, and proved yet again that he's inconsistent. i want him to succeed, i really do, but he always seems to stumble.

[Novacane]

Serious question: How much has been said about JP that he hasn't earned or isn't true?


Come on Mikey you were asked a question. Why haven't you answered it? Nevermind............we already know why :rolleyes:

[acehole]

If JP can pull off this miracle I'll shut up about him and support him as starter for the rest of the year. Contrary to what some dumb ass know it alls say, us fans who are not sold on Losman do not want to lose with him. I've just seen enough to be pretty sure he's never gonna be consistant.
I actually was a big enough sucker to think maybe, just maybe he had turned a corner against Cinci. Then he had to come out and play like **** against a **** team. I expected that kind of play this week. I thought he'd have a good game against Miami.

You know he did not play in Miami like he did in cini...but re watch the game if you got it...the whole team was missing. Roscoe fumble out of bounds...reeds and others with dropsies... Deffense could not stop the run or pass. I guess the QB allways takes the blame or glory...but the whole team is required to win a game. I mean we did win that game right?


In the end he did lead a game winning drive with a perfect pass to gaines.

[Philagape]

You know he did not play in Miami like he did in cini...but re watch the game if you got it...the whole team was missing. Roscoe fumble out of bounds...reeds and others with dropsies... Deffense could not stop the run or pass. I guess the QB allways takes the blame or glory...but the whole team is required to win a game. I mean we did win that game right?

This thread is about the QB.

[acehole]

So did i. He looked terrible against Miami, and proved yet again that he's inconsistent. i want him to succeed, i really do, but he always seems to stumble.

He is inconsitant I do agree...but he has been winning as of late.
Are we really expecting a cini game every week?

[BillsFever21]

This is where you're completely misunderstanding.

I'm not making a case for Trent at all. You assume that because in your world it's nothing but us vs. them with no room for a complex argument or the idea that neither is the answer right now.

I was responding to yet another misleading argument. What does it say about JP that the only case people can make for him is to trash the other guy? It shows JP has nothing of his own to boast about.

My position is neither QB is a good option. Both have strengths, both have weaknesses, both have things which they're better at than the other, both have bad coaching, both have bad receivers.

The correct answer is the grand debate is neither. So to me, it's not JP vs. Trent; I'm arguing neither vs. JP-worshiping lies.

So now you are trying to say both suck? LOL.

Oh yay. Edwards has completed 7 more at a 3% higher rate AT THE MOMENT. What does that prove? All that does is disprove your claims that Trent "moves the chains" and JP doesn't. Out of every 100 throws(3-4) games Trent may have completed 3 more first down throws. Less than one per game on the average. Thanks for making my point for me. Now if Trent would've had say 10% more on him then that might be a valid argument.

So Trent has a 3% higher rate at the moment but has a QB rating of 33 with 77 yards passing in the 4th quarter. I will trade the peformance in the home stretch of the game over an average of .08-1 more pass attempt for a first down a game. You have got to be kidding me? LOL

Yes. Trent leads by 1 more pass a game but loses in TD's, INT's, QB Rating, average per pass, points and 4th quarter performance. Great trade off. :roflmao:

[shelby]

The Buffalo Bills have won four straight and five of six, but here comes a cruel reminder
of what this franchise has been missing ever since Jim Kelly retired.
<TABLE class=contbl cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=763 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=cw width=428><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER></CENTER>Tom Brady versus Carson Palmer, Tony Romo or Ben Roethlisberger? Any of those quarterback matchups could be good, even very good. Brady versus Peyton Manning? That could be one for the ages - and usual is.
Brady vs. J.P. Losman? Well, the host Bills do have Brian Moorman, the league's best punter. Game on.

<SCRIPT language=JavaScript><!--if (parseFloat(navigator.appVersion) == 0) {document.write('<IFRAME WIDTH=468 HEIGHT=60 MARGINWIDTH=0 MARGINHEIGHT=0 HSPACE=0 VSPACE=0 FRAMEBORDER=0 SCROLLING=no BORDERCOLOR="#000000" SRC="http://ads.masslive.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_sx.ads/www.masslive.com/xml/story/union_news/s/sfpa/@StoryAd"></IFRAME>');}--></SCRIPT>Losman will start his sixth game of the season tonight, having returned only after Trent Edwards suffered a wrist injury against the New York Jets Oct. 28. Edwards, a rookie third-round pick from Stanford, stepped in after Losman suffered a knee injury during a 38-7 loss to the Patriots in Week 3.
Between the two, they have only three touchdown passes - or one every three games. Losman, though, was a first-round draft pick with four years and 29 starts to his name. He also had the benefit of a solid running game this season in the form of Marshawn Lynch, who is doubtful to play because of a sprained left ankle.
In Losman's defense, he is playing on a very young team. The Bills do not have a player with more than eight years experience nor do they have a player over the age of 31. The Patriots have 10 players with more than eight years experience and half dozen over the age of 31.
So perhaps Losman is still following his learning curve.
"It's learning how to do things to keep our team winning," he said. "What is more important? When can I take my chances? When do I have to take a chance? When I do, I just need to get the ball out? When do I need to be smart with it?
"It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to give you the most yardage on this play. It's actually what's the best play for our team. I think all the way around, we've had to learn that."




</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


QB edge? Losman is no Brady (http://www.masslive.com/sports/republican/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1195374068108740.xml&coll=1)

[Philagape]

So now you are trying to say both suck? LOL.

Oh yay. Edwards has completed 7 more at a 3% higher rate AT THE MOMENT. What does that prove? All that does is disprove your claims that Trent "moves the chains" and JP doesn't. Out of every 100 throws(3-4) games Trent may have completed 3 more first down throws. Less than one per game on the average. Thanks for making my point for me. Now if Trent would've had say 10% more on him then that might be a valid argument.

So Trent has a 3% higher rate at the moment but has a QB rating of 33 with 77 yards passing in the 4th quarter. I will trade the peformance in the home stretch of the game over an average of .08-1 more pass attempt for a first down a game. You have got to be kidding me? LOL


Just pointing out the absurdity of arguing for your guy by bashing an aspect of the other guy that he does better than your guy. It's not really saying much about a QB to point out that he's no worse than a rookie. I've ALWAYS said neither are very good options right now, and I've said JP should start right now.

It doesn't matter how good JP looks compared to a rookie ... it matters how good he looks against the rest of the league. He set the bar for himself last year, and he hasn't reached it. Not even close.

[acehole]

The whole arguement was who had the better chance of winning. That is what a qb debate is about. JP is that qb. You are wrong wen you say Trend is no worse that stat sheet proves that. He(JP) is the best one on the roster today. What choice do we have.


Just pointing out the absurdity of arguing for your guy by bashing an aspect of the other guy that he does better than your guy. It's not really saying much about a QB to point out that he's no worse than a rookie. I've ALWAYS said neither are very good options right now, and I've said JP should start right now.

It doesn't matter how good JP looks compared to a rookie ... it matters how good he looks against the rest of the league. He set the bar for himself last year, and he hasn't reached it. Not even close.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Don't bother acehole... Join me in the QB non-debate oasis. I'm really enjoying it here.

[Philagape]

The whole arguement was who had the better chance of winning. That is what a qb debate is about. JP is that qb. You are wrong wen you say Trend is no worse that stat sheet proves that. He(JP) is the best one on the roster today. What choice do we have.

I've always said they give us an equal chance of winning, and on this team that doesn't mean much. Neither QB will lead wins very often. When both play like rookies, it doesn't matter how worse one of them is.
So the debate is irrelevant. I don't advocate one over the other. I just point out absurdities, hypocrisy and misleading statements, because Bills fans shouldn't do that.

[justasportsfan]

This thread is about the QB.
and the wr's have alot to do with the qb's performance so it's not OT.

[justasportsfan]

I just point out absurdities, hypocrisy and misleading statements, because Bills fans shouldn't do that.
so do those who think JP gives us the best chance to win ;)

[Philagape]

and the wr's have alot to do with the qb's performance so it's not OT.

They do on the plays that they screw up. Not when the QB screws up. And the defense was mentioned too. Stopping the run has nothing to do with the QB's performance.

[justasportsfan]

They do on the plays that they screw up.thats what Acehole pointed out

And the defense was mentioned too. Stopping the run has nothing to do with the QB's performance.
It does help him get the ball back more often.

[Philagape]

thats what Acehole pointed out

It was more than that, hence the defense comments.


It does help him get the ball back more often.

I thought we were talking about performance.

[justasportsfan]

It was more than that, hence the defense comments.



I thought we were talking about performance.
acehole was also talking about the other factors against the" fins game".

[Philagape]

acehole was also talking about the other factors against the" fins game".

Why?

[justasportsfan]

Why?
because the qb's performance was in question . HIs perferomance is directly affected by the wr's (which is why he brought it up) and the D unable to stop the run which indirectly affects the O's ability to get the ball back and run more plays. The longer the D stays on the field becaue of their inability to stop the run, the less chances the O gets (vice-versa)

[Philagape]

because the qb's performance was in question . HIs perferomance is directly affected by the wr's (which is why he brought it up) and the D unable to stop the run which indirectly affects the O's ability to get the ball back and run more plays. The longer the D stays on the field becaue of their inability to stop the run, the less chances the O gets (vice-versa)

It's not about the quantity of the QB's plays, it's about the quality. The way he was playing, maybe it's better he got fewer plays.

[justasportsfan]

It's not about the quantity of the QB's plays, it's about the quality. The way he was playing, maybe it's better he got fewer plays.
I understand that. gaines dropping a TD , Parrish or Reed not stepping inbounds does not help in the "quality" of the qb play.

He just pointed out that the wrs dropping the ball helped that. His post was valid when talking about the qb. That's all.

[Philagape]

I understand that. gaines dropping a TD , Parrish or Reed not stepping inbounds does not help in the "quality" of the qb play.

He just pointed out that the wrs dropping the ball helped that. His post was valid when talking about the qb. That's all.

JP had more to do with the quality of his play than anyone else did. He made more bad throws and bad decisions than the receivers had drops. And when a receiver doesn't catch a bad throw, such as Reed's, they share responsibility. And if we're going to talk about drops, there's the one dropped by Miami too, so that cancels out Gaines as far as JP's day is concerned.
The validity of the point is extremely minimal to the point of irrelevant.

[Billz_fan]

As long as the team wins when he plays JP can keep playing in my world. I think the Dolphin game they won inspite of him playing. If that continues I dont think the coaches will let him keep playing.

[trapezeus]

He is inconsitant I do agree...but he has been winning as of late.
Are we really expecting a cini game every week?

yes, he did not have a 300+ game with 5 TD exception. he played for 295 yards(close to 300) with 1 TD and 1 pick. he took a little while to find his groove, and he never inspired any real confidence. The bills took the game back by running and running some more.

The bottom line is that Losman does not inspire confidence in any manner.

[HHURRICANE]

I don't hate him and I would continue to support him in the 1 and out scenario that he's in now.

A win is a win.

Are you willing to stop loving on him and bench him if he stinks up the joint or will you give him the "he was playing NE" excuse.

I guess we did.

[acehole]

QB edge? Losman is no Brady (http://www.masslive.com/sports/republican/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1195374068108740.xml&coll=1)

I was thinking about this Shelby and the artical makes valid pionts.

We have not had a great QB here since J kelly retired.

We have also not had...

A good DE as Bruce Smith

A good LB Like biscut.

A Great RB since T Thomas.

A great pass catching blocking TE like Metzallars.

Hall of fame coach...

So does a good QB elevate a team or does a good team elevate a QB.

Food for thought....

[acehole]

I guess we did.

Well you have to admit it is a pretty good one.

Payton looked lost against the Pats.

I dont think any QBs on our roster would have changed a thing.

Anyway on to JAX......

Let the JP bashing cont. I guess...