Last offseason flash back

[camelcowboy]

Many people had plenty of issues regarding the numerous freeagents we let walk. We have played 10 games this year lets revisit the issue.

London Fletcher- Between Poz and Digorio i haven't found myself missing fletcher i know he has done well in washington, but im glad we didn't sink money into fletch. Good decision

Nate Clements- Last year when we failed to replace him i was very upset, but seeing the emergence of greer I haven't had any problems with letting nate go. I think the team lucked out that Greer has played the level that he has, because they didn't plan on him being the guy, but letting nate goes as of now appears to have been a good decision. Youboty has played ok as well and now with Thomas on IR we will see what he is made of.

Spikes- I love takeo but watching him in Philly he's pretty much done, Ellison is all over the field and Crowell is finally staying healthy. Good decision.

Mcgahee- Another player i was upset about moving but with the play of Lynch easy to say it was a good decision.

The O-line- Not great yet, but hey for years we have been begging for a better line and this year they haven't been the weakest point of the team. Walker, Dockery, Butler all good decisions.

Positions the front office has come up short on.- Wide receivers, we still need a two with height desperately.

Tightend- Royal is a third o-tackle. Gaines is ok but not the answer

DT- McCargo has been a very pleasant surprise, but Tripplett and Williams have been ok but could be improved upon.

Center- Fowler is still bad.

Alright guys those are my views what do you think about the decisions last offseason?

[Don't Panic]

I like it... I agree with all of the departures... Spikes was the only one I was really going to miss and its apparent that we made a good call trading him.

I think the OLine is greatly improved but could use some more work. C may be due for an upgrade.

I think the corners we have are all the corners we need for the Cover 2.

I don't see us making a FA TE move... maybe a draft pick, though.

Big #2 WR is our glaring weakness that needs to be addressed.

The bottom line is that the house was on fire in a lot of people's eyes this past spring/summer and its now apparent that that was a false alarm. Marv made some shrewd moves that have paid dividends and I have faith that there will be more coming this offseason. The QB issue is the only real debate that we have, and something tells me that we'll have that settled by Xmas.

[G. Host]

All of the picks have been great.

Bills need a tall CB and TE. I'd like to see a true blocking back whose job would be to lead block but more importantly punish blitzers. Center is definitely a position which needs work and some work needs to be done for line for short yardage situations even if they need to change linemen in those situations.

I though Nate was more show than play, liked Fletch but thought he wanted too much, was sorry for Spikes but he did not want to be part of rebuild anyways. Willis was improvement by reduction. Shaud Williams played well for a while but when he started costing more it was time to go. Mike Schneck being released was my biggest concern but it has proved to be a non factor with his replacement making good plays on ST and defense. Villarrial and Gandy were in the Willis category.

[Charlieguide]

I like all your points except one. Letting Clements go was a mistake.

Yes, by the time he was a FA he commanded too much money. Corners shouldn't go for that price for another 5-10 years; he lucked out on being one of the few really good corners available.

But if we had signed him before last season, we'd have had him at a fair price, maybe a little more. There are just not enough corners to go around this league, and when you get a guy like him, you do your best to keep him.

Clements is a prime example of an alarming pattern the past several years: the apparent unwillingness to even try to hang on to top-quality players. If you just keep replacing them, how and when do you actually stabilize and improve?

[camelcowboy]

I like all your points except one. Letting Clements go was a mistake.

Yes, by the time he was a FA he commanded too much money. Corners shouldn't go for that price for another 5-10 years; he lucked out on being one of the few really good corners available.

But if we had signed him before last season, we'd have had him at a fair price, maybe a little more. There are just not enough corners to go around this league, and when you get a guy like him, you do your best to keep him.

Clements is a prime example of an alarming pattern the past several years: the apparent unwillingness to even try to hang on to top-quality players. If you just keep replacing them, how and when do you actually stabilize and improve? I felt the same way you did watching jason webster in the line up but since he busted his arm the secondary has actually played well. Would i like to see Nate Clements accross from Moss this weekend? Sure but the bills have spent the last three seasons gutting this team, next offseason we should be going for the playoffs that means retaining freeagents, and signing ones that can better our team. If they don't have make any moves this comming offseason i'll be ready to believe that this team doesn't care about winning and the bottomline is the dollar.

[Don't Panic]

I can't see Clements playing that much better than Greer has this year. Definitely not $80 million better.

[Mahdi]

Many people had plenty of issues regarding the numerous freeagents we let walk. We have played 10 games this year lets revisit the issue.

London Fletcher- Between Poz and Digorio i haven't found myself missing fletcher i know he has done well in washington, but im glad we didn't sink money into fletch. Good decision

Nate Clements- Last year when we failed to replace him i was very upset, but seeing the emergence of greer I haven't had any problems with letting nate go. I think the team lucked out that Greer has played the level that he has, because they didn't plan on him being the guy, but letting nate goes as of now appears to have been a good decision. Youboty has played ok as well and now with Thomas on IR we will see what he is made of.

Spikes- I love takeo but watching him in Philly he's pretty much done, Ellison is all over the field and Crowell is finally staying healthy. Good decision.

Mcgahee- Another player i was upset about moving but with the play of Lynch easy to say it was a good decision.

The O-line- Not great yet, but hey for years we have been begging for a better line and this year they haven't been the weakest point of the team. Walker, Dockery, Butler all good decisions.

Positions the front office has come up short on.- Wide receivers, we still need a two with height desperately.

Tightend- Royal is a third o-tackle. Gaines is ok but not the answer

DT- McCargo has been a very pleasant surprise, but Tripplett and Williams have been ok but could be improved upon.

Center- Fowler is still bad.

Alright guys those are my views what do you think about the decisions last offseason?
I think Kyle Williams should get more credit, and John McCargo has been our best DL this season.

[Mudflap1]

I generally agree, our defense has not lost us any games this year. 7 of 9 games were very winnable with a large part of the reason being the defense. Pittsburgh wasn't a blowout until the 3rd quarter, and the offense did nothing that game. New England was the only game that truly was not close.

Jon

[Oaf]

I'd like Fletch still here, I've been disappointed with Ellison.

[OpIv37]

Many people had plenty of issues regarding the numerous freeagents we let walk. We have played 10 games this year lets revisit the issue.

London Fletcher- Between Poz and Digorio i haven't found myself missing fletcher i know he has done well in washington, but im glad we didn't sink money into fletch. Good decision

Nate Clements- Last year when we failed to replace him i was very upset, but seeing the emergence of greer I haven't had any problems with letting nate go. I think the team lucked out that Greer has played the level that he has, because they didn't plan on him being the guy, but letting nate goes as of now appears to have been a good decision. Youboty has played ok as well and now with Thomas on IR we will see what he is made of.

Spikes- I love takeo but watching him in Philly he's pretty much done, Ellison is all over the field and Crowell is finally staying healthy. Good decision.

Mcgahee- Another player i was upset about moving but with the play of Lynch easy to say it was a good decision.

The O-line- Not great yet, but hey for years we have been begging for a better line and this year they haven't been the weakest point of the team. Walker, Dockery, Butler all good decisions.

Positions the front office has come up short on.- Wide receivers, we still need a two with height desperately.

Tightend- Royal is a third o-tackle. Gaines is ok but not the answer

DT- McCargo has been a very pleasant surprise, but Tripplett and Williams have been ok but could be improved upon.

Center- Fowler is still bad.

Alright guys those are my views what do you think about the decisions last offseason?

Jerametrius Butler is now our nickel back, so hopefully you didn't speak too soon about CB.

Spikes hasn't done much in Philly, but Ellison "all over the field"? What games are you watching? Since coming back he's had a handful of decent games and a handful of games where he was invisible. Regardless of whether or not ditching Spikes was the right move, don't make Ellison better than he is.

Tripplett absolutely blows. Anyone who doesn't think Darwin Walker would be an upgrade is kidding themselves.

The OL is excellent at pass blocking but the run blocking is very disappointing, especially for the bucks they shelled out.

[OpIv37]

I generally agree, our defense has not lost us any games this year. 7 of 9 games were very winnable with a large part of the reason being the defense. Pittsburgh wasn't a blowout until the 3rd quarter, and the offense did nothing that game. New England was the only game that truly was not close.

Jon

The D gave up back-to back 7 minute drives in the FIRST QUARTER of the Pitt game. Granted, the O didn't move the ball, but what are they supposed to do when they can't touch the ball? I'd say the D was at least equally responsible for that loss.

[Don't Panic]

Jerametrius Butler is now our nickel back, so hopefully you didn't speak too soon about CB.


Youboty is healthy, isn't he? If so, Butler is the dime back. Of course, that means he'll be getting a lot of work against NE's 4 WR sets on Sunday. The underlying point is that talent is not as important as being able to play in the system at CB. That is why Greer and McGhee have excelled. Paying Clements to do what other guys could do at only a marginal difference made no sense, and that is obvious now.

[dannyek71]

by loosing our 3 biggest names on defense, it made us into a team defense

[OpIv37]

Youboty is healthy, isn't he? If so, Butler is the dime back. Of course, that means he'll be getting a lot of work against NE's 4 WR sets on Sunday. The underlying point is that talent is not as important as being able to play in the system at CB. That is why Greer and McGhee have excelled. Paying Clements to do what other guys could do at only a marginal difference made no sense, and that is obvious now.

Youboty's listed as day to day. Hopefully he plays.

[Mr. Miyagi]

by loosing our 3 biggest names on defense, it made us into a team defense
I'd like to shove this thread up in Chris Mortensen's ass.

[Night Train]

Many people had plenty of issues regarding the numerous freeagents we let walk. We have played 10 games this year lets revisit the issue.

London Fletcher- Between Poz and Digorio i haven't found myself missing fletcher i know he has done well in washington, but im glad we didn't sink money into fletch. Good decision

Nate Clements- Last year when we failed to replace him i was very upset, but seeing the emergence of greer I haven't had any problems with letting nate go. I think the team lucked out that Greer has played the level that he has, because they didn't plan on him being the guy, but letting nate goes as of now appears to have been a good decision. Youboty has played ok as well and now with Thomas on IR we will see what he is made of.

Spikes- I love takeo but watching him in Philly he's pretty much done, Ellison is all over the field and Crowell is finally staying healthy. Good decision.

Mcgahee- Another player i was upset about moving but with the play of Lynch easy to say it was a good decision.

The O-line- Not great yet, but hey for years we have been begging for a better line and this year they haven't been the weakest point of the team. Walker, Dockery, Butler all good decisions.

Positions the front office has come up short on.- Wide receivers, we still need a two with height desperately.

Tightend- Royal is a third o-tackle. Gaines is ok but not the answer

DT- McCargo has been a very pleasant surprise, but Tripplett and Williams have been ok but could be improved upon.

Center- Fowler is still bad.

Alright guys those are my views what do you think about the decisions last offseason?

I pretty much agree with everything you said.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

I think overall, at this point in the season, I am more optimistic about our long term organizational direction (long term is a relative term in the NFL) than I was last year at this point. I feel the correct decisions were made in most areas. I think they should have let more people walk, actually. I think extending Kelsay was a waste, I don't think he's starting material.
I did not like the money we threw at Josh Reed, but I guess they felt they knew what they had, even if he is not a great receiver.
Looking at this team, I think it looks good in most areas, and it seems like the less experienced guys are getting better.
I personally don't find a lot of flaw with Fowler at center. Is he an all-pro? No, but I don't think he is doing a bad job at all.
Our o-line depth concerns me. Preston has digressed, and we need to reload in that area.
Most important, the team chemistry is very good right now. If we can continue that through next season, with the addition of a few select free agents and our rookies, this team should continue to move towards being a contender.

[Mudflap1]

The D gave up back-to back 7 minute drives in the FIRST QUARTER of the Pitt game. Granted, the O didn't move the ball, but what are they supposed to do when they can't touch the ball? I'd say the D was at least equally responsible for that loss.

You're right, but still, the offense was doing their best impression of the Rockettes that game "1-2-3-kick!" I didn't say the defense played great that game, they didn't, it was at least their 2nd-worst game this season.


I think extending Kelsay was a waste, I don't think he's starting material.

I might take a lot of heat for this, but I like Kelsay. I think he's played better than Schobel this season (although I think that's more of a case of Schobel not playing as well as last year as opposed to Kelsay being light years better). But I think Kelsay is solid. Heck, he got that safety last week, and the touchdown against Dallas. Those were some great plays from a DE. Is he a Pro-Bowler? No. But I don't mind the front office paying him and keeping him around.

Jon

[dannyek71]

I might take a lot of heat for this, but I like Kelsay. I think he's played better than Schobel this season (although I think that's more of a case of Schobel not playing as well as last year as opposed to Kelsay being light years better). But I think Kelsay is solid. Heck, he got that safety last week, and the touchdown against Dallas. Those were some great plays from a DE. Is he a Pro-Bowler? No. But I don't mind the front office paying him and keeping him around.

Jon



Kelsey has 8 points this season. Most of our guys on offense dont have that many

[OpIv37]

Kelsey has 8 points this season. Most of our guys on offense dont have that many


that's short sighted. He makes a big play, then doesn't show up for 3 games.

For a big portion of the year, he was overpursuing into the backfield and just getting guided past the QB EVERY time.

He did better in this regard against Miami, but people around here are too willing to forget a month of mediocrity after a handful of good plays.

[patmoran2006]

They should've kept London Fletcher, I think it was a mistake in letting him go. We probably beat Denver in week one with him in the lineup, maybe Dallas too. I have NO problem with drafting Poz in round two (though I said before the draft and since I liked David Harris better), but Poz is going to be a very nice player for us. I wish we kept Fletch in the middle and drafted Poz to play the weak side where Ellison is now. Our LB corp would've have been better IMO and then if Fletch's play slowed down (which it sure as hell hasn't) you could always move PoZ to the middle down the line whenever.

Letting Nate walk was a necessity. No way's he's worth that money. However, I think the FO made the same mistake with Clements that the Sabres did with Drury and Briere, by not locking him up the year before. If we did that, we would've gotten a deal done at much better market value. However, that's a two-edged sword as I think Greer has been great. So maybe in retrospect, not locking him up was the right thing to do financially. I'm fine with it.

Willis McGahee trade was a GREAT trade. I think Lynch is better than him without the extra picks. So we improved at RB, got our QB in the future (Edwards) in the trade and still have a first day pick from them next year (and its looking like a pretty high third rounder right now)

Takeo Spikes- I never disagreed with the trade, I just think based on his name and past accomplisments more could've been had for him. I'm not happy with a 5th rounder for him, we could've held out and gotten more. his play would have been a detriment to our defense, that's not my issues. I just think we could've gotten more.

As far as who we signed, the jury is still out. Walker has looked good for the money so far, and Dockery has been OK (considering salary). I need to see if they continue to grow before calling them good or bad signings. I hated the Kelsay signing, I still do because I think Hargrove/Denney could do the same job much cheaper. But his play is coming on and he was dominant vs Miami last week.

The only thing that really still BOTHERS me right now is we left a lot of money on the cap table, which could've spent to upgrade some of the talent on this lackluster offense. Hoarding cap money the way this team is going was a BAD INVESTMENT. We should've signed a legit #2 WR, someone who knows how to get in the end zone. Could you imagine how much better this WR corp would be had we signed Kevin Curtis to play with Lee Evans?

And especially TE. Obviously Fairchild with these QB's favors a lot of short/dump passes. Eric Johnson could've helped us a lot, or we could've spent the money and gotten Graham or someone else.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind if we had another play-maker or two on offense right now, we'd be sitting at 7-2 going into the NE game.

I am very much looking forward to this coming offseason. 3rd in the NFL in cap room, very few significant players iternally to worry about having to resign, and we're a borderline playoff contender that needs a few legitimate weapons. We'll see if Wilson truly is committed to putting a CHAMPIONSHIP contender on the field. We NEED a much better WR next to Evans, and we need a TE who has good hands an will consistently move the chains.

Honestly, I feel those are our only two pressing "needs". I think the defense is growing and by next season, they will be just fine. I'd like a good player here and there maybe but I'd have no problem running with the same exact defensive unit next season. DiGorgio and Wilson are becoming great "depth" players for the future when Poz and KO Simpson are back.