Bills Bringing Down Points Allowed

[BAM]

Through nine games Buffalo's defense has held five opponents (Jets twice) to 15 points or less. The Bills are 4-1 in those games this year and 8-1 overall in two seasons under Dick Jauron.

Impressive! Now if only our offense could score more than 15 we'd be in business!

I also LOVE this quote by Donte Whitner at the end:

"I don't care if they look good or not," said Whitner. "I just want to win them. When you look at our record it's not going to say how we won it, how we did it, how many yards they rushed for or anything like that. It's a win and that's all that matters."

http://buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=5571

[OpIv37]

Scoring:

19. Miami Dolphins 19.6 ppg
23. NYJ 17.7 ppg
25. Denver Broncos 17 ppg
28. Baltimore Ravens 15.3 ppg

It's not JUST us- these teams aren't scoring on ANYONE. That's a skewed stat if I ever saw one. Notice how they conveniently leave out the 3 teams we played that were in the top 10 in scoring- NE, Pitt and Cincy.

Wow, big deal- we can stop the teams that everyone else can stop and can't stop anyone good.

[YardRat]

Scoring:

19. Miami Dolphins 19.6 ppg
23. NYJ 17.7 ppg
25. Denver Broncos 17 ppg
28. Baltimore Ravens 15.3 ppg

It's not JUST us- these teams aren't scoring on ANYONE. That's a skewed stat if I ever saw one. Notice how they conveniently leave out the 3 teams we played that were in the top 10 in scoring- NE, Pitt and Cincy.

Wow, big deal- we can stop the teams that everyone else can stop and can't stop anyone good.

Miami's scored the most points against New England in any game so far this year...28.

[OpIv37]

Miami's scored the most points against New England in any game so far this year...28.

and?

We put up 33 on Cincy- doesn't mean squat because everyone knows Cincy's D is terrible and so is our O. One game doesn't make an offense productive.

[B-DON]

and?

We put up 33 on Cincy- doesn't mean squat because everyone knows Cincy's D is terrible and so is our O. One game doesn't make an offense productive.

And shut up! The stats dont lie. We dont give up to many points at all. Face it our d is not that bad. And if we look at things your way, name one team that NE hasnt racked up a **** ton of points on. You cant. So like i said, shut it.

[OpIv37]

And shut up! The stats dont lie. We dont give up to many points at all. Face it our d is not that bad. And if we look at things your way, name one team that NE hasnt racked up a **** ton of points on. You cant. So like i said, shut it.

The stats don't lie- you're right. We don't give up points to teams that don't score points. We do give up points to teams that do score points. So, what is it exactly that this stat shows? Nothing.

Pittsburgh scored 26. Dallas scored 24.

[YardRat]

and?

We put up 33 on Cincy- doesn't mean squat because everyone knows Cincy's D is terrible and so is our O. One game doesn't make an offense productive.

Everybody knows NE's defense is pretty good, and Miami's offense blows. Yet they were able to put up 28 pts.

[OpIv37]

Everybody knows NE's defense is pretty good, and Miami's offense blows. Yet they were able to put up 28 pts.

and what was the score at the start of the 4th in that game?

NE had one bad quarter and they only had it after building a ridiculous lead.

Yeah, it looks like Miami's O had a good game if you don't pay attention to the specifics. If the game was in doubt Miami never would have scored nearly that much.

[YardRat]

and what was the score at the start of the 4th in that game?

NE had one bad quarter and they only had it after building a ridiculous lead.

Yeah, it looks like Miami's O had a good game if you don't pay attention to the specifics. If the game was in doubt Miami never would have scored nearly that much.

Granted. It's still possible, though.

[B-DON]

How can you say we do it only against bad teams then list off the top 3 teams in the league. No one stops these teams. No one is saying we are a great d. You always point out some ridiculous point and just hound on it. The fact is we dont give up alot of points and i guarantee you it will be the same at the end of the year.

[OpIv37]

How can you say we do it only against bad teams then list off the top 3 teams in the league. No one stops these teams. No one is saying we are a great d. You always point out some ridiculous point and just hound on it. The fact is we dont give up alot of points and i guarantee you it will be the same at the end of the year.

the stat in the initial post talked about 5 games against 4 opponents: The Jets, Ravens, Broncos and Dolphins. I didn't leave it out- whoever computed the stat did. You're making my point exactly- the good offenses we played weren't included in this stat because we didn't stop them- so someone just conveniently left it out when talking about how great we are. They basically said "If you don't count the 4 games against good teams, the Bills' D is good."

Please.

And btw we didn't give up a lot of points last year. We were 10th in points allowed last year and we're 9th this year. Not giving up a lot of points doesn't matter when you can barely average 15 points a game and get killed in TOP.

[Ed]

Op,

We may give up more points to the good teams, but if you look at their average points per game, they've all scored less against us. So you could say we're at least doing better againsts them then most teams.

And not giving up a lot of points may not matter as far as wins and losses when your O is struggling to score points, but that's not the D's fault. You can still credit them for doing well.

[OpIv37]

Op,

We may give up more points to the good teams, but if you look at their average points per game, they've all scored less against us. So you could say we're at least doing better againsts them then most teams.

And not giving up a lot of points may not matter as far as wins and losses when your O is struggling to score points, but that's not the D's fault. You can still credit them for doing well.

Your first point is a much better indicator of the D's success than the stat that started this thread.

Everyone jumps on Wy's when he says "well, if you take out his longest run, he only averaged 2.6 yards." Well, this stat is doing the same thing: "If you ignore the games where we allowed points, we didn't allow points." It's not a complete measure, but no one wants to think about that. They heard what they wanted to hear and turned their brains off.

As far as the O struggling to score points, TOP goes both ways. Early in the season, the D wasn't giving the O enough chances with the ball, and the O wasn't doing anything with the chances they did get. Since the Dallas game or so, the D has done it's part even in the losses and it's been mostly, if not entirely, on the O.

[BAM]

Op,

We may give up more points to the good teams, but if you look at their average points per game, they've all scored less against us. So you could say we're at least doing better againsts them then most teams.

And not giving up a lot of points may not matter as far as wins and losses when your O is struggling to score points, but that's not the D's fault. You can still credit them for doing well.

This stat is nothing but a positive! We're improving and I'm proud of our defense! Keep it up this week boys!

[B-DON]

Your first point is a much better indicator of the D's success than the stat that started this thread.

Everyone jumps on Wy's when he says "well, if you take out his longest run, he only averaged 2.6 yards." Well, this stat is doing the same thing: "If you ignore the games where we allowed points, we didn't allow points." It's not a complete measure, but no one wants to think about that. They heard what they wanted to hear and turned their brains off.

As far as the O struggling to score points, TOP goes both ways. Early in the season, the D wasn't giving the O enough chances with the ball, and the O wasn't doing anything with the chances they did get. Since the Dallas game or so, the D has done it's part even in the losses and it's been mostly, if not entirely, on the O.

The writer ignored these teams but the stats didnt. And even ater those games our scoring D is still pretty damn good.

[BAM]

Wow, big deal- we can stop the teams that everyone else can stop and can't stop anyone good.
Okay cool. It's not a big deal to you. We get the point. It is to me and many of the rest of us though.

So can you please just leave this thread now then before you get another one of my threads closed? Thanks.


OK....new Zone rule:

From now on, if someone posts a postive thread, and someone else insists on trying to turn it into something negative, the negative posts will be split out of the thread and thrown into the Spam Zone.

Thank you.

[OpIv37]

Okay cool. It's not a big deal to you. We get the point. It is to me and many of the rest of us though.

So can you please just leave this thread now then before you get another one of my threads closed? Thanks.



Oh, I see, "don't respond if you don't agree with me" :rolleyes:.

I'm sorry but this stat doesn't prove anything because they threw out half the data. You don't want to see that, and now you're telling me to leave because I pointed out the fallacy in the logic. Apparently analysis and critical thinking constitutes "ruining a thread" around here now.

Do you actually want to discuss the team and the stats and the game of football? Or do you just want to post some manipulated numbers and have everyone respond by going "YAAAAAYYY!" like Special Ed?

[hydro]

Oh, I see, "don't respond if you don't agree with me" :rolleyes:.

I'm sorry but this stat doesn't prove anything because they threw out half the data. You don't want to see that, and now you're telling me to leave because I pointed out the fallacy in the logic. Apparently analysis and critical thinking constitutes "ruining a thread" around here now.

Do you actually want to discuss the team and the stats and the game of football? Or do you just want to post some manipulated numbers and have everyone respond by going "YAAAAAYYY!" like Special Ed?

There is a difference between analysis/critical thinking and TOTAL THREAD JACKING. 7 of the 17 posts in this thread is you spouting off how everyone is wrong.

[OpIv37]

There is a difference between analysis/critical thinking and TOTAL THREAD JACKING. 7 of the 17 posts in this thread is you spouting off how everyone is wrong.

and I have reasoning as to why they're wrong, and so far no one has come up with anything to prove me wrong. You get all pissed off about the tone and respond with a glorified version of "shut up".

I don't know why you can't just attempt to respond to my argument and have a debate. You insist on being excited about this statistics, but have no defense for my critiques. The problem here is yours, not mine.

[hydro]

PEOPLE THOUGHT OUR DEFENSE WAS GOING TO SUCK! THEY DON'T SUCK! THATS SOMETHING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT. IF THEY LET UP 24+ POINTS PER GAME I WOULD BE PISSED. BUT THEY DONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE MY OR ANYONE ELSES MINDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, if our offense ever gets in gear we can be fairly good all around team.

[OpIv37]

WE ALL THOUGHT OUR DEFENSE WAS GOING TO SUCK! THEY DON'T SUCK! THATS SOMETHING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT. IF THEY LET UP 24+ POINTS PER GAME I WOULD BE PISSED. BUT THEY DONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CHANGE MY OR ANYONE ELSES MINDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, if our offense ever gets in gear we can be fairly good all around team.

If that's what you want say, that's fine. But find stats that prove it instead of ones that ignore almost half the available data. There's no reason to get excited about stats that mean nothing when there are stats available that mean something. What's so hard about that?

Also, someone needs to rectify this stat with the fact that we didn't give up a lot of points last year but still managed to lose 9 games. This team has proven in the past that not allowing points is not a sign of success in and of itself. In fact, it doesn't even show that our D has improved over last year.* What's so hard about that?

*= I'm not saying that our D hasn't improved- I'm just saying that not allowing points doesn't show that we've improved because we didn't allow points last year.

[hydro]

If that's what you want say, that's fine. But find stats that prove it instead of ones that ignore almost half the available data. There's no reason to get excited about stats that mean nothing when there are stats available that mean something. What's so hard about that?

Also, someone needs to rectify this stat with the fact that we didn't give up a lot of points last year but still managed to lose 9 games. This team has proven in the past that not allowing points is not a sign of success in and of itself. In fact, it doesn't even show that our D has improved over last year.* What's so hard about that?

*= I'm not saying that our D hasn't improved- I'm just saying that not allowing points doesn't show that we've improved because we didn't allow points last year.

Its not the defenses fault. Its the offenses fault. The point of the thread wasn't the defense being stingey with points against = wins.

[OpIv37]

Its not the defenses fault. Its the offenses fault. The point of the thread wasn't the defense being stingey with points against = wins.

agreed on the offense.

At the start of the year, it was equally on the D cuz they couldn't get off the field. But lately, the D has been performing and the offense has been pathetic.

[Mr. Pink]

Our defense is about where I thought they'd be...

Give up yards and then stiffen up in the red zone, making teams kick field goals more than punching it in for 6 each time. This isn't ground breaking, we're at about the same rate we were at last year.

We'd improve ten-fold if our O could sustain some drives more frequently though, because we wouldn't be as gassed defensively.

With all the injuries we've suffered the fact that our D is still working is a positive in and of itself.

If you want to see a BAD defense, watch a Browns game. Or a Bengals game. Just don't watch those teams play the Ravens who arguably have the worst Offensive in the NFL right now.

[YardRat]

There's no reason to get excited about stats that mean nothing when there are stats available that mean something. What's so hard about that?


Stats don't mean anything, especially if you're winning. Indy had the worst run defense in the league last year, woe is them.



Also, someone needs to rectify this stat with the fact that we didn't give up a lot of points last year but still managed to lose 9 games.


The offense sucked.



This team has proven in the past that not allowing points is not a sign of success in and of itself.


Relative to what the discussion is about. Team success? No...football is not just a defensive game, you need offense to win also. Unit success? The defense has done well, better than expected by most especially after all the 'We're so screwed we lost Nate, Fletch, and Spikes and didn't replace them with anybody and if you can't see that you're ignorant' comments over the past off-season.

[OpIv37]

Stats don't mean anything, especially if you're winning. Indy had the worst run defense in the league last year, woe is them.



The offense sucked.



Relative to what the discussion is about. Team success? No...football is not just a defensive game, you need offense to win also. Unit success? The defense has done well, better than expected by most especially after all the 'We're so screwed we lost Nate, Fletch, and Spikes and didn't replace them with anybody and if you can't see that you're ignorant' comments over the past off-season.

Indy also had the BEST offense last year. So stats do mean something- they had the O to overcome their D. Our D may be better but it's still not nearly good enough to overcome our O.

As far as the D- this stat only shows that we're EQUAL to last year. Yeah, maybe I was wrong about losing all those guys, but did it make a difference? According to this stat, all we did was the same as last year. So, how are we going to improve and win games by being the same as last year? All I'm saying here is that this stat is not "impressive" as BAM claims.

[Dr. Lecter]

Indy also had the BEST offense last year. So stats do mean something- they had the O to overcome their D. Our D may be better but it's still not nearly good enough to overcome our O.

As far as the D- this stat only shows that we're EQUAL to last year. Yeah, maybe I was wrong about losing all those guys, but did it make a difference? According to this stat, all we did was the same as last year. So, how are we going to improve and win games by being the same as last year? All I'm saying here is that this stat is not "impressive" as BAM claims.

Considering the defense is as good as or better than last year with the injuries, I would call it impressive. Especially with the experience the depth guys are getting.

The defense should be even better next year with guys like Poz and Simpson back and Denney, Hargrove and Ellison available for all games. In addition, Wilson, DiG and Greer are getting valuable experience and couls be finds with their play so far.

[OpIv37]

Considering the defense is as good as or better than last year with the injuries, I would call it impressive. Especially with the experience the depth guys are getting.

The defense should be even better next year with guys like Poz and Simpson back and Denney, Hargrove and Ellison available for all games. In addition, Wilson, DiG and Greer are getting valuable experience and couls be finds with their play so far.

Agreed about next year but what does "impressive despite injuries" get us? According to this stat, it gets us the same as last year, which wasn't good enough.

[SquishDaFish]

We held EVERY TEAM we faced so far under their AVERAGE.I say that makes this d damn good.

[OpIv37]

We held EVERY TEAM we faced so far under their AVERAGE.I say that makes this d damn good.

Fair enough. That's a fair argument that our team is improving and a much better metric than BAM's stat because it accounts for all the teams we've played, not just the ones with bad offenses.

[Dr. Lecter]

Fair enough. That's a fair argument that our team is improving and a much better metric than BAM's stat because it accounts for all the teams we've played, not just the ones with bad offenses.

Woo hoo!

Op likes the positive stat I found!

The defense is the bright spot on this team so far. One of the biggest reasons, imo, is imroved DT play. McCargo is coming on. Williams is playing better and even Triplett is beign disruptive at times.

We do miss Timmy Anderson though.

[OpIv37]

Woo hoo!

Op likes the positive stat I found!

The defense is the bright spot on this team so far. One of the biggest reasons, imo, is imroved DT play. McCargo is coming on. Williams is playing better and even Triplett is beign disruptive at times.

We do miss Timmy Anderson though.

all I'm trying to do is think analytically about this stuff. There's no way that anything other than our team's play can account for EVERY team we've played scoring below their average. If it were one or two teams, you could argue they had off-games or we had good games, but it's almost impossible for EVERY team we played to have an off game against us without our team deserving some credit.

[Dr. Lecter]

Denver - Scored 15, Average 17.0
<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Pittsburgh</st1:place></st1:City> - Scored 26, Average 28.1
<st1:place w:st="on">New England</st1:place> - Scored 38, Average 39.4
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New York</st1:place></st1:State> Jets - Scored 14, Average 17.7
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Dallas</st1:place></st1:City> - Scored 25, Average 32.9
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Baltimore</st1:place></st1:City> - Scored 14, Average 15.3
Jets - Scored 3, Average 17.7<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Cincinnati</st1:place></st1:City> – Scored 21, Average 24.3<o:p></o:p>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Miami</st1:City></st1:place> – Scored 10, Average 19.6<o:p></o:p>

There is the proof.

[BAM]

Denver - Scored 15, Average 17.0
<st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Pittsburgh</st1:place></st1:city> - Scored 26, Average 28.1
<st1:place w:st="on">New England</st1:place> - Scored 38, Average 39.4
<st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New York</st1:place></st1:state> Jets - Scored 14, Average 17.7
<st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Dallas</st1:place></st1:city> - Scored 25, Average 32.9
<st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Baltimore</st1:place></st1:city> - Scored 14, Average 15.3
Jets - Scored 3, Average 17.7<o:p></o:p>
<st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Cincinnati</st1:place></st1:city> – Scored 21, Average 24.3<o:p></o:p>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Miami</st1:city></st1:place> – Scored 10, Average 19.6<o:p></o:p>

There is the proof.
Impressive stat! Our Defense is steadily improving.

[OpIv37]

Impressive stat! Our Defense is steadily improving.

I agree with you on this one.