NFL economics may force Bills move

[G. Host]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7457592?tbd
The Bills hope to expand their Canadian ticket-holder base — an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 fans currently attend home games — while also drawing new corporate support from Toronto's thriving business community.

The Bills' local financial forecast is so gloomy that even building a new stadium in Buffalo wouldn't solve the problems. There aren't enough major companies to purchase large numbers of luxury boxes and club seats, which is a team's most important revenue stream besides money from the league's television contract. Since luxury box and club seat revenue isn't shared equally among NFL owners, the financial chasm between franchises continues to widen.


The disparity hasn't reached the same level as Major League Baseball, but the Bills already show signs of becoming the NFL's version of the Montreal Expos. Buffalo is one of just three teams without a postseason appearance this decade.


One former Bills player told FOXSports.com that isn't a coincidence.
"Because of their situation, that organization makes a lot of decisions based more on keeping the franchise viable than winning and trying to make the playoffs," he said.

[Nighthawk]

More doom and gloom from people outside of Buffalo. Feel free to stop posting this crap.

[Devin]

its not doom and gloom if its a reality.

[Nighthawk]

its not doom and gloom if its a reality.

Yep, I know...everything's terrible in Buffalo, blah, blah, blah. You don't live here...don't worry about it!

[Night Train]

NFL economics may force Bills move

No kidding. <!-- Start Post Thank You Hack -->

[hydro]

Yep, I know...everything's terrible in Buffalo, blah, blah, blah. You don't live here...don't worry about it!

Wow, you are really taking this personally aren't you?

[Nighthawk]

NFL economics may force Bills move

No kidding. <!-- Start Post Thank You Hack -->

Yep, you don't think they're jumping on the bandwagon, do you? I guess it was slow day on the writing front for this writer.

[Nighthawk]

Wow, you are really taking this personally aren't you?

No, I just get tired of certain people on this board constantly bringing this subject up. They don't know what they're talking about regarding Buffalo and it is very annoying. No, Buffalo isn't a booming city, but is far from dead either. Just get over it if you don't live here anymore.

[Devin]

No, I just get tired of certain people on this board constantly bringing this subject up. They don't know what they're talking about regarding Buffalo and it is very annoying. No, Buffalo isn't a booming city, but is far from dead either. Just get over it if you don't live here anymore.

Right but there is a drastic difference between "far from dead" and "able to support an NFL team" and by support I mean keep up with the rest of the NFL not just sell out games at dirt cheap ticket prices on your way to 4-8 wins every year.

People, sorry I mean fans, will continue to bring it up as long as it is a reality. I would love nothing more then for Buffalo to stay put. But until some clear picture of what will happen to the team after RW's death emerges this debate will continue.

[hydro]

No, I just get tired of certain people on this board constantly bringing this subject up. They don't know what they're talking about regarding Buffalo and it is very annoying. No, Buffalo isn't a booming city, but is far from dead either. Just get over it if you don't live here anymore.

The thing is it not like its the Buffalo Bills fault. The State and the Erie County government suck so hard nobody wants to bother with the high taxes around this area. They need to cut down on all the people on welfare and tell them to get a fuggin job.

[Nighthawk]

Right but there is a drastic difference between "far from dead" and "able to support an NFL team" and by support I mean keep up with the rest of the NFL not just sell out games at dirt cheap ticket prices on your way to 4-8 wins every year.

People, sorry I mean fans, will continue to bring it up as long as it is a reality. I would love nothing more then for Buffalo to stay put. But until some clear picture of what will happen to the team after RW's death emerges this debate will continue.

Your logic is not even correct. If you're going to attack Buffalo's ability to keep an NFL team, then you sure as hell better question New Orleans, Jacksonville's or even Clevelands. These are all similar to Buffalo.

[Devin]

Your logic is not even correct. If you're going to attack Buffalo's ability to keep an NFL team, then you sure as hell better question New Orleans, Jacksonville's or even Clevelands. These are all similar to Buffalo.

I cant comment on Jacksonville or Cleveland because im not familiar with thier situations. The Saints are doing very well financially, they signed a 4 year extension with the state of Louisiana this year to stay put and currently are working on finding a spot for a brand new stadium. There is a waiting list for season tickets now, and the Saints front office have done an outstanding job of signing all of thier key players to long term deals.

It is what it is.

[Nighthawk]

I cant comment on Jacksonville or Cleveland because im not familiar with thier situations. The Saints are doing very well financially, they signed a 4 year extension with the state of Louisiana this year to stay put and currently are working on finding a spot for a brand new stadium. There is a waiting list for season tickets now, and the Saints front office have done an outstanding job of signing all of thier key players to long term deals.

It is what it is.

Let me give you a lesson. The Saints are still in NO because of the hurricane...nothing less, nothing more. That team was as good as gone right before the storm. They're still there because the NFL couldn't move them at that point. Sympathy is what kept the Saints in NO.

[Devin]

Let me give you a lesson. The Saints are still in NO because of the hurricane...nothing less, nothing more. That team was as good as gone right before the storm. They're still there because the NFL couldn't move them at that point. Sympathy is what kept the Saints in NO.

lol. I see. Thanks for that.

The state of Louisiana has basically poured money into that team. Sure the NFL helped, same as if a big ass blizzard wiped half of Buffalo off the map they would help them.

[Nighthawk]

lol. I see. Thanks for that.

The state of Louisiana has basically poured money into that team. Sure the NFL helped, same as if a big ass blizzard wiped half of Buffalo off the map they would help them.

Come on, Devin. I'm not being a jerk, I'm being serious. Everybody knows that the talk right before the storm was that NO was the leading candidate to relocate to LA. That is a fact. Spin it how you would like, but it is what it is.

[Mitchy moo]

I think a downtown stadium, the falls and a casino will increase tourism drastically in the area, the writer is all wet.

[JD]

Not to mention the american dollar being worth ****.. the canadians are poring into buffalo by the flocks, mostly for the galleria mall in cheektowaga lol

[tampabay25690]

I cant comment on Jacksonville or Cleveland because im not familiar with thier situations. The Saints are doing very well financially, they signed a 4 year extension with the state of Louisiana this year to stay put and currently are working on finding a spot for a brand new stadium. There is a waiting list for season tickets now, and the Saints front office have done an outstanding job of signing all of thier key players to long term deals.

It is what it is.

It wasn't like that there 2 years ago!!!!!!!!

[tampabay25690]

I think a downtown stadium, the falls and a casino will increase tourism drastically in the area, the writer is all wet.

Take away what is best about BILLS games then.....TAILGATING.....There will be a strict poilicy about what time you may eneter the lots if its downtown.....

[Mike13]

Let me give you a lesson. The Saints are still in NO because of the hurricane...nothing less, nothing more. That team was as good as gone right before the storm. They're still there because the NFL couldn't move them at that point. Sympathy is what kept the Saints in NO.

I have to agree with you there, whats his face denied it but you know he was looking to sell the team.

[Ickybaluky]

Come on, Devin. I'm not being a jerk, I'm being serious. Everybody knows that the talk right before the storm was that NO was the leading candidate to relocate to LA. That is a fact. Spin it how you would like, but it is what it is.

I'm not sure how you can bring Cleveland into the argument. They are a very strong franchise.

New Orleans was threatening to move, but that had as much to do with Tom Benson being a complete ass and the team sucking out loud for the better part of a half century. That tends to keep people away from games. L.A. was always mentioned because Benson married some chick who wanted to take the team there.

You have a point with Jacksonville, because they are in a similar situation to Buffalo. Granted, Jacksonville doesn't have nearly as loyal a following, but that doesn't really matter. Today's NFL is driven by corporate dollars. It is all about developing alternate revenue sources and getting corporations interested in buying luxury boxes and perks. That is the area where both Buffalo and Jacksonville fall short.

Jacksonville is the worse situation, because nobody down there seems to give a **** whether the team stays or goes. However, the Bills are in an uncertain situation. The Bills need to do something to start to develop other revenue streams, like Green Bay did. It takes more than a rabid fan base, it will require corporate partnerships and government support. To date Ralph Wilson hasn't been interested in investing in marketing, and the government hasn't been looking to help.

[Oaf]

I think NE39 makes a good point about the Packers. I think we should take a closer look on how they manage the team there. Our towns are pretty similar. I've lived near both.

[ajsdx]

I think NE39 makes a good point about the Packers. I think we should take a closer look on how they manage the team there. Our towns are pretty similar. I've lived near both.

The packers are publicly owned. The NFL decreed after that happened that all franchises going forward have to have a majority owner (i.e. 51% or more ownership by one person). So what the packers did can't be replicated by anyone else.

[Preacher]

What kills me is that the salary cap was "supposed to" fix this type of situation. While I don't know that much about the local Buffalo economy, I wonder how the Bills could move, when they netted over 34 million dollars last year (source) (http://www.ravens24x7.com/column_view.php?cid=22&id=1919&view=archive). The issue doesn't seem to be whether the Bills will or won't move, but whether the NFL will give a little more to the poorer teams.

[YardRat]

Either luxury box revenue should be shared, or signing bonus amortization rules should be shortened up.

Putting people in the seats should be a bigger factor in viability of a franchise than how many corporate and tax dollars you can milk from the community and then throw at the players as up-front money.

[Ickybaluky]

The packers are publicly owned. The NFL decreed after that happened that all franchises going forward have to have a majority owner (i.e. 51% or more ownership by one person). So what the packers did can't be replicated by anyone else.

How the Packers are owned is not relevant. They have an Executive committee that appoints people to run the team, and they aren't run differently than anyone else.

The Packers were in financial difficulty a few years ago, and decided to invest in the team. There was a renovation done to Lambeau field to bring it up to modern standards and add luxury revenue. They developed the Packer HOF complex/Mall that brings in alternate revenue streams. They built facilities that allow it to be used as a year-round venue, hosting corporate functions. The marketing and investment they made in the franchise and facilities helped them increase revenue dramatically, to the point where they earn a ton of revenue.

The Bills should take note of that.

[YardRat]

How the Packers are owned is not relevant. They have an Executive committee that appoints people to run the team, and they aren't run differently than anyone else.

The Packers were in financial difficulty a few years ago, and decided to invest in the team. There was a renovation done to Lambeau field to bring it up to modern standards and add luxury revenue. They developed the Packer HOF complex/Mall that brings in alternate revenue streams. They built facilities that allow it to be used as a year-round venue, hosting corporate functions. The marketing and investment they made in the franchise and facilities helped them increase revenue dramatically, to the point where they earn a ton of revenue.

The Bills should take note of that.

The Bills are constantly updating the Ralph. They have suites that sit empty at the moment. They're attempting to further regionalize. They benefit from the upcoming Ice Bowl.

They could do more, but I don't think they're exactly sitting on their hands, either.

The NFL is what it is today because of revenue sharing, and it's a concept that should be preserved in some manner and an integral part of any new revenue stream that is introduced and directly related to the game of professional football.

[patmoran2006]

You see one of the comments following the article? Way off base, but pretty funny to read I must admit..

"(report inappropriate content) (javascript:report(71584,333268);)

I speak for all Canadians when I say this...

HAHAHAHAHA BURN!!!!!!!!

OHHHHH CANADA OUR HOME AND NATIVE LAND.... TRUE PATRIOT LOVE......

----

First the bills, next? The world.
--

Why was there EVER a team in Buffalo? How do they promote it? "ohhhh come watch the Bills play in buffalo, you can get a glimsp of our 4 buildings above 5 stories. But be careful not to slip on the Ralph Wilson's drool.. We still havent taught homeboy to close swallow when he speaks..


Face it buffalo'ers... pack up your station wagons, spray that mullet all nice, and be sure to put on your favourite ACDC shirt, you bums are coming to toronto to watch the NFL..."

[HHURRICANE]

I'm actually going to calm people down.

This article is ridiculous at best. The team can and will be viable. It's a matter of how you approach it for the future.

The Bills continue to be one of the more profitable franchises in the NFL.

To put the Bills and Expos in the same sentence is a complete joke. Aren't we going to sell out every home game this year?

I lived in New England when the Pats sucked. They were going to build the stadium in Hartford to draw on a bigger fan base. Think about that? This wasn't that long ago. Are the Patriots not viable?

One thing that has to happen to keep the Bills safe is to win games. Hard to move a winning franchise.

[BillyT92679]

I think the point is, "Is the situation becoming too untenable overall to allow the Bills to be a winning team?" Yes, winning helps, but is the monetary issue becoming so restrictive that only big market teams can get the best players and best coaches? The Bills, right now, are disproving this, but I don't know if they can maintain it going forward. I hope so and I think Marv's approach is the best way to get good talent to ensure victories.

[Typ0]

No, I just get tired of certain people on this board constantly bringing this subject up. They don't know what they're talking about regarding Buffalo and it is very annoying. No, Buffalo isn't a booming city, but is far from dead either. Just get over it if you don't live here anymore.


Nighthawk, buffalo is in horrible shape. The government and Erie county is just about bankrupt. The schools in Buffalo are some of the worst schools in the country. Businesses are leaving not coming. The state of affairs here is very, very bad and we need world class leadership to pull out of it and it's not coming.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Nighthawk, buffalo is in horrible shape. The government and Erie county is just about bankrupt. The schools in Buffalo are some of the worst schools in the country. Businesses are leaving not coming. The state of affairs here is very, very bad and we need world class leadership to pull out of it and it's not coming.

Actually, Buffalo city schools are among the better large metro area public school systems in the country and for good reason....they put money into it and pay good teachers to stay. You are right about the city as a whole, though. The economy is not healthy. High taxes, high utility costs, and low real estate value are a recipe for continued decline. Any real change has to come from the County and the State as far as commercial taxes go. WNY tax law has to change and change quickly if Buffalo wants to stop shrinking.