Must be nice to actually have a good HC

[Nighthawk]

Just a thought...

[jdbillsfan]

Are you going to post the same thing all night?

You've said the same thing in about 10 different threads and you have started two threads saying you don't like Jauron. Ok. Got it.

[T-Long]

its not Jauron's fault. If it was, then all the coaches who the Pats have played so far this year should be fired.

[hydro]

Fans know everything the coaches know nothing... :rolleyes:

We simply just don't have the caliber players they have, plain and simple.

[Novacane]

I'm not a big DJ fan but name 1 Bils starter that would be starting for NE.

[hwc]

I'm not an expert on the Bills, but my impression from Boston is that Jauron has done a hell of a job with the Bills this year...especially considering the incredible number of injuries.

I see the Bills as a one of the teams in the NFL that's headed in the right direction.

[jamze132]

We just lost to one of the greatest teams in the history of the NFL. Get over it. And if you don't like it, emulate what their organization does. They have built one of the greatest teams ever, hell I wouldn't hesitate to call them a dynasty since they have been winning for quite a few years now.

[djjimkelly]

Just a thought...

no most on this board think hes brilliant and the qb is to blame for anything that goes wrong.

ive thought fewell has done a decent job all year till tonight

JUST PITIFUL i didnt expect to win i in fact expected to get beat up pretty bad but not 7 drives 7 TDs bad

fewell called one bad game.

our offensive design is a total joke.

the fact we went into this season with lynch and basically only lynch at rb is truly laughable becuz with 6-7 cycles of winstrol i could go do what A train does!!!!!!!

[tampabay25690]

Just a thought...

HEY we played the best team in the NFL by far. Honestly we don't deserve to be on the same playing field as them. They are much superior then the BILLS are at this time. The BILLS have to turn the corner and I like what DJ has done with this team and they will get by this. THIS offseason they better revamp that terrible DEFENSE, another CB, DT, OLB, DE. The positive is POZ comes back and SImpson comes back. Look at all the ijuries this team has had this year if they put some $$ where it needs to go this team will get better and be a playoff team again...

[Historian]

I'm not a big DJ fan but name 1 Bils starter that would be starting for NE.

Evans
Moorman
Lynch
Poz
DiGeorgio
McGee on returns
Parrish on returns

[OpIv37]

Evans
Moorman
Lynch
Poz
DiGeorgio
McGee on returns
Parrish on returns

Bruschi, Vrabel, Adalieus Thomas- there is NO WAY Poz or DiG would start over those guys.

[HHURRICANE]

People it's the talent!!!!

Bellichek said that Schobel wouldn't make his roster and Schobel proved why last night.

Jauron is not Bellichek but we are void of talent.

Evans would not make the Pats roster. And in all fairness Evans is a #2 receiver on most playoff team rosters.

[Ickybaluky]

Evans

Yeah, he would probably start on the outside opposite Moss, taking Stallworth's place.


Moorman

Definitely, although they don't punt much.


Lynch

That would be awesome. He would be a perfect fit for the Pats offense with his all-around game and hard running style.


Poz

No, I don't think so. I love Poz, but he isn't a good fit for the Pats 3-4 scheme. I think he is a perfect fit as a WSLB in a Tampa-2 scheme.


DiGeorgio

Uh, no. He might be able to contribute as a ST'er, but he is too small for the Pats scheme. He is a poor fit for what they do.


McGee on returns

I think McGee would start opposite Samuel at CB. I like Ellis Hobbs, but he is a better version of Hobbs. BTW, Belichick loves McGee. If he were ever to become a FA the Pats would be trying to sign him.


Parrish on returns

Yeah, OK. However, the Pats don't carry anyone as just a return specialist.

[Historian]

Bruschi, Vrabel, Adalieus Thomas- there is NO WAY Poz or DiG would start over those guys.

I think they're all getting a little long in the tooth (especially Captain Heart Attack) and if Belicek follows suit, (assuming he continues coaching after this year) will be jettisoned before their next contract renewal.

Trust me, he would LOVE to have Poz.

As for DiGeorgio, all you have to do is look at Welker.

:)

[OpIv37]

Fans know everything the coaches know nothing... :rolleyes:

We simply just don't have the caliber players they have, plain and simple.

that's true but the coaches bear their share of responsibility. This team was TOTALLY unprepared, particularly on D.

NE's receivers were WIDE OPEN all day and I'm sure some of that is due to execution, but a lot of it is due to being thoroughly outoached. They knew what plays would work against our D and we had no answers.

The Bills were woefully unprepared last night and that's on the coaches.

[Billzz]

that's true but the coaches bear their share of responsibility. This team was TOTALLY unprepared, particularly on D.

NE's receivers were WIDE OPEN all day and I'm sure some of that is due to execution, but a lot of it is due to being thoroughly outoached. They knew what plays would work against our D and we had no answers.

The Bills were woefully unprepared last night and that's on the coaches.

So what would of you done as far as game planning for the pats?

What defense would you of run, blitz's, stunts and overall coverage schemes?

How would you of prepared the team to face another team having a record setting year? Talk em up? Tear em down? or just scream at em alot till they got it right?

I am all ears............

[Ickybaluky]

Trust me, he would LOVE to have Poz.

As for DiGeorgio, all you have to do is look at Welker.

I don't think either guy fits. The Pats LB have to take on OG and have gap responsibilities. Neither guy is big enough to hold up. The Pats LB need to have size and versatility more than anything to play. None of the Bills LB, as good as they may fit in their scheme, fit with the Pats. I'd say the same thing about Indy's crew.

A guy you missed mentioning is Whitner. Harrison is getting older and the Pats love James Sanders, but Whitner would be right there in the mix. Also, Jason Peters would probably start for them, as he might for just about every team in the NFL.

[OpIv37]

So what would of you done as far as game planning for the pats?

What defense would you of run, blitz's, stunts and overall coverage schemes?

How would you of prepared the team to face another team having a record setting year? Talk em up? Tear em down? or just scream at em alot till they got it right?

I am all ears............

are you trying to tell me that the Pats are SOOOO much better than us that we allowed 7 touchdowns on 7 drives? or do you think that maybe, just maybe, our players didn't know where they should be?

For starters, our CB's were still playing too far off the lines and weren't getting effective games. Second, the blitzes were late and predictable. Third, the DE's were lining up too far to the outside which just contributed to their overpursuit. Fourth, the safeties never seem to know where their responsibilities were- granted NE throws a lot at them, but it's on the coaches to make sure the S's know what to look for and where the primary responsibility is. There seemed to be no play recognition whatsoever on the part of the safety- it wasn't "read and react"- it was "wait and react" and it was far too slow.

[Billzz]

are you trying to tell me that the Pats are SOOOO much better than us that we allowed 7 touchdowns on 7 drives? or do you think that maybe, just maybe, our players didn't know where they should be?

For starters, our CB's were still playing too far off the lines and weren't getting effective games. Second, the blitzes were late and predictable. Third, the DE's were lining up too far to the outside which just contributed to their overpursuit. Fourth, the safeties never seem to know where their responsibilities were- granted NE throws a lot at them, but it's on the coaches to make sure the S's know what to look for and where the primary responsibility is. There seemed to be no play recognition whatsoever on the part of the safety- it wasn't "read and react"- it was "wait and react" and it was far too slow.

Well you didn't anwser the questions but I guess that is a moot point.

For starters the defense gave a cushion because that what cover 2 does. We ran 2 deep safeties almost all game which did 2 things.

1. Tried to protect against the deep pass and the middle of the field where Brady loves to work.

2. Left us open to runs up the gut because of the 4/5 man front of undersized D linemen and injuries to our LB's. We had little to no safeties playing run support.

Definition of Cover2 just so you know.

The main weakness of the Cover 2 shell occurs in the middle of the field between the safeties. The safeties attempt to gain width upon the snap of the ball to cover any long passes to quick wide receivers down the sideline. This movement creates a natural hole between the safeties that can be attacked. By sending a receiver (usually a tight end) into the hole, the offense forces the safety to make a decision: play the vulnerable hole in the middle of the field or help out on the wide receiver. The quarterback reads the safety's decision and decides on the best matchup (i.e. which mismatch is better--TE vs S or WR vs CB).

Now with that in mind it was easy to see our safties on multiple plays not only commited some simple pee wee football mistakes like don't let anyone behind you or keep everything infront of you (Moss TD catch over the safety)

Case in point defintion #2

Teams that play Cover 2 shells usually subscribe to the "bend-but-don't-break" philosophy, preferring to keep offensive players in front of them for short gains while limiting long passes. This is in stark contrast to a more aggressive Cover 1 type scheme which leaves the offensive team's wide receivers in single man-to-man coverage with only one deep helper. By splitting the deep field between two defenders, the defense can drastically reduce the number of long gains.

You cannot tell me the coaching staff did not tell the players their responsibilites or practice them. You cannot tell me our players executed well and where just confused because the coaching staff didn't tell them what was gonna happen. They watched hours upon hours of film on the teams they play to try and get all the tendencies known to take advantage of em 12-16 hours a day. We where outplayed by a far superiour team.

Summary of the story is simple, No pressure = our secondary getting killed. Name me one person on our defense that touched Brady during the game at a point that mattered. On one pass alone I swear Brady scanned the field sideline to sideline 2 to 3 times. The players have to execute, period and this did not happen. Why you ask? The Patriots have the best Oline in the NFL hands down. The Patriots have the best QB possibly of all time, no one can disagree this fact.

[OpIv37]

Well you didn't anwser the questions but I guess that is a moot point.

For starters the defense gave a cushion because that what cover 2 does. We ran 2 deep safeties almost all game which did 2 things.

1. Tried to protect against the deep pass and the middle of the field where Brady loves to work.

2. Left us open to runs up the gut because of the 4/5 man front of undersized D linemen and injuries to our LB's. We had little to no safeties playing run support.

Definition of Cover2 just so you know.

The main weakness of the Cover 2 shell occurs in the middle of the field between the safeties. The safeties attempt to gain width upon the snap of the ball to cover any long passes to quick wide receivers down the sideline. This movement creates a natural hole between the safeties that can be attacked. By sending a receiver (usually a tight end) into the hole, the offense forces the safety to make a decision: play the vulnerable hole in the middle of the field or help out on the wide receiver. The quarterback reads the safety's decision and decides on the best matchup (i.e. which mismatch is better--TE vs S or WR vs CB).

Now with that in mind it was easy to see our safties on multiple plays not only commited some simple pee wee football mistakes like don't let anyone behind you or keep everything infront of you (Moss TD catch over the safety)

Case in point defintion #2

Teams that play Cover 2 shells usually subscribe to the "bend-but-don't-break" philosophy, preferring to keep offensive players in front of them for short gains while limiting long passes. This is in stark contrast to a more aggressive Cover 1 type scheme which leaves the offensive team's wide receivers in single man-to-man coverage with only one deep helper. By splitting the deep field between two defenders, the defense can drastically reduce the number of long gains.

You cannot tell me the coaching staff did not tell the players their responsibilites or practice them. You cannot tell me our players executed well and where just confused because the coaching staff didn't tell them what was gonna happen. They watched hours upon hours of film on the teams they play to try and get all the tendencies known to take advantage of em 12-16 hours a day. We where outplayed by a far superiour team.

Summary of the story is simple, No pressure = our secondary getting killed. Name me one person on our defense that touched Brady during the game at a point that mattered. On one pass alone I swear Brady scanned the field sideline to sideline 2 to 3 times. The players have to execute, period and this did not happen. Why you ask? The Patriots have the best Oline in the NFL hands down. The Patriots have the best QB possibly of all time, no one can disagree this fact.

The cushion wasn't working but we kept doing it anyway. If we continue to do something that doesn't working to adhere to some abstract defensive philosophy like "that's what a cover 2 does", it's just asinine.

Keeping our S's back to stop the deep pass wasn't working, yet, we continued to do it.

Our players didn't execute well. But you can't tell me that players being out of position ALL FRIGGIN DAY has nothing to do with coaches. You can't tell me that continuing to employ strategies that aren't working has nothing to do with the coaches. Yes- the coaches did have the players practice their responsibilities- they were the WRONG responsibilities for stopping the Pats which is why it didn't work.

And you use the Patriots' talent as the excuse as if this is the only game where we've ever been outcoached. That's not the case at all- we've been consistently outcoached since Jauron got here.

[Billzz]

The cushion wasn't working but we kept doing it anyway. If we continue to do something that doesn't working to adhere to some abstract defensive philosophy like "that's what a cover 2 does", it's just asinine.

Keeping our S's back to stop the deep pass wasn't working, yet, we continued to do it.

Our players didn't execute well. But you can't tell me that players being out of position ALL FRIGGIN DAY has nothing to do with coaches. You can't tell me that continuing to employ strategies that aren't working has nothing to do with the coaches. Yes- the coaches did have the players practice their responsibilities- they were the WRONG responsibilities for stopping the Pats which is why it didn't work.

And you use the Patriots' talent as the excuse as if this is the only game where we've ever been outcoached. That's not the case at all- we've been consistently outcoached since Jauron got here.

Didn't say we where outcoached, said we where outplayed, period. We run a cover 2 defense and that is not going to change midseason so you work with what you have game planned.

To run even say a 3-4 we would have to cut most of our line to get bigger heavier players for it to work.

So yet again I ask what defense would you have run that had the ability to stop the Patriots and give us a winning chance with our current roster?

[OpIv37]

Didn't say we where outcoached, said we where outplayed, period. We run a cover 2 defense and that is not going to change midseason so you work with what you have game planned.

To run even say a 3-4 we would have to cut most of our line to get bigger heavier players for it to work.

So yet again I ask what defense would you have run that had the ability to stop the Patriots and give us a winning chance with our current roster?

I'm not a coach so I don't know.

But I do know that I wouldn't have continued to do the same things that weren't working all night.

You're oversimplifying this way too much. A defensive philosophy is a base D- it doesn't mean the D HAS to play in that set EVERY down. For example, every team in the NFL uses some form of the Cover 2 situationally. I'm not saying we should have switched to a 3-4 for this game only- that's just ridiculous.

What I'm saying is that there are things within the Cover 2 that we could have done differently and didn't. I mentioned a few of them before and you said I "didn't answer the question." Just because we run a cover 2 doesn't mean we're not allowed to jam receivers or blitz safeties or man up on a good receiver. it may not be a "pure" cover 2, but if a "pure" cover 2 isn't working, it's on the coaches to make adjustments and find something that works.

If we can't get pressure, the coaches can't just say "Do a better job" to Schobel. They have to try somethign else too.

[Billzz]

I'm not a coach so I don't know.

But I do know that I wouldn't have continued to do the same things that weren't working all night.

You're oversimplifying this way too much. A defensive philosophy is a base D- it doesn't mean the D HAS to play in that set EVERY down. For example, every team in the NFL uses some form of the Cover 2 situationally. I'm not saying we should have switched to a 3-4 for this game only- that's just ridiculous.

What I'm saying is that there are things within the Cover 2 that we could have done differently and didn't. I mentioned a few of them before and you said I "didn't answer the question." Just because we run a cover 2 doesn't mean we're not allowed to jam receivers or blitz safeties or man up on a good receiver. it may not be a "pure" cover 2, but if a "pure" cover 2 isn't working, it's on the coaches to make adjustments and find something that works.

If we can't get pressure, the coaches can't just say "Do a better job" to Schobel. They have to try somethign else too.

You are correct teams do not run Cover2 the entire game, they do switch it up. With that in mind and the players we have the options are limited. We ran many different looks last night and blitz packages, all where picked up well by the Pats O-line, even delayed blitzes didn't work. 5 db sets, 4 DE and 6 linemen at one point with 8-9 in the box.

As much as it pains me to say it we where just plain outplayed. We eventually went to FULL protection to try and give our QB sometime in the pocket but too little to late.

[baalworship]

We didn't have anyone to cover Moss or even challenge him. Period. Case closed. This game had nothing to do with X and O's as Belichick needed to do little as Pats threw to Moss anytime they wished.

Until we get an athlete that can at least challenge Moss for the ball we are screwed against the Pats.

[OpIv37]

As much as it pains me to say it we where just plain outplayed. We eventually went to FULL protection to try and give our QB sometime in the pocket but too little to late.

I saw that at the end- there was one play where JP had tons of time and still couldn't complete the pass- the reason was because the Bills kept 8 in to block and the Pats rushed 7- but that meant we only had two WR's running out against 4 defenders.

[OpIv37]

We didn't have anyone to cover Moss or even challenge him. Period. Case closed. This game had nothing to do with X and O's as Belichick needed to do little as Pats threw to Moss anytime they wished.

Until we get an athlete that can at least challenge Moss for the ball we are screwed against the Pats.


I disagree. On Moss' 2nd TD, the CB let him go thinking he had S help but the S thought he was supposed to be inside. We should have let McGee (as our best cover corner) stay on Moss and just hope for the best. Instead, we had to compete with both his athleticism and coverage that was confused as to their responsibilities. We added an unnecessary element of chaos. I bet Moss still would have beat McGee a significant portion of the time, but at least then we wouldn't be fighting ourselves as well as him.

[Billzz]

We didn't have anyone to cover Moss or even challenge him. Period. Case closed. This game had nothing to do with X and O's as Belichick needed to do little as Pats threw to Moss anytime they wished.

Until we get an athlete that can at least challenge Moss for the ball we are screwed against the Pats.

We play a zone more or less thru most games on defense. That means when Moss goes deep one of our backup, now starting safties has the responsiblity of not only getting himself in position to cover Moss(they are usually towards the middle of the field) but also the speed/ability to compete with him.

[Billzz]

I saw that at the end- there was one play where JP had tons of time and still couldn't complete the pass- the reason was because the Bills kept 8 in to block and the Pats rushed 7- but that meant we only had two WR's running out against 4 defenders.

Yea a very unfortunate situation and basically a last resort. IMO they should of moved JP on bootlegs or atleast got him out of the pocket more to utilize what attributes he does his. Decent legs with a big arm he should be able to make throws on the run and stop the defense from always knowing I just need to meet my buddies in the same spot every play cause JP will be there.

That I will give you is on the coaching staff, definetly.

[OpIv37]

Yea a very unfortunate situation and basically a last resort. IMO they should of moved JP on bootlegs or atleast got him out of the pocket more to utilize what attributes he does his. Decent legs with a big arm he should be able to make throws on the run and stop the defense from always knowing I just need to meet my buddies in the same spot every play cause JP will be there.

That I will give you is on the coaching staff, definetly.

Fairchild has never figured out how to take advantage of JP's athleticism. It's frustrating because it's very disheartening to a D to shut down the pass and still give up the first down.

[Billzz]

Fairchild has never figured out how to take advantage of JP's athleticism. It's frustrating because it's very disheartening to a D to shut down the pass and still give up the first down.

The brightside was the runs he did have last night even in garbage time. Maybe that will click in somone's head if they continue to start JP. Some of the best QB's currently and past can hurt you with their legs. Roth 30 yard scamper, Young Steve and Vince, hell even Elway during the beginning of his career and especially during the Super Bowls his little runs when everyone was covered help move the chains.

For the love of god BRADY ran last night for positive yardage.