Pats will go undefeated..Miami to blame..

[RedEyE]

Last nights game was dismal but let's face facts, a young Bills team, still in search of an identity, and still digging for a decent QB, were just beaten by the best team in the league. And arguably the best team in history.

It might not be too obvious now, but by seasons end this Patriots team will have gone the distance without so much as come close to a loss. They'll have busted the Dolphins record wide open, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Moss is amazing, and Stallworth is useful on the outside, but no one moves the ball down the field like Welker. This guy destroys defensive interiors mainly because of the domination Moss brings downfield. But make no mistake about, Welker's presence and success is equally as important as Moss'.

Miami made the trade..within the division..to an already dominate team...they can choke on that when the Patriots are lifting the Lombardi high in the air at 19-0 this season.

[LtFinFan66]

Yeah, just Welker made them the powerhouse they are :rolleyes:

[Mr. Pink]

Welker has a lot to do with the success of this Pats offense. He also leads the Pats in receptions. Moss and Welker compliment each other beautifully, unfortunate for the rest of the NFL.

[LtFinFan66]

Yeah, the Bills would have overpaid Welker and not taken a 2nd and 7th rounder for a 3rd receiver and this place would have imploded.

Nobody else has ever traded within the division. Give me a ****ing break

[Ickybaluky]

Yeah, the Bills would have overpaid Welker and not taken a 2nd and 7th rounder for a 3rd receiver and this place would have imploded.

Nobody else has ever traded within the division. Give me a ****ing break

I think it is an example of why the Dolphins are where they are. Welker is a guy they should have kept.

[LtFinFan66]

Not when they are trying to rebuild with youth and they needed the draft picks. They got a starting center and a back-up D Lineman out of the deal:idunno:

[camelcowboy]

Miami's troubles began when the drafted Ted Ginn Jr. too high, and the fact that they let the defense get too long in the tooth. We will see how their future looks with Beck, but next year if they have a big offseason and Brown returns to form they will be a far better team.

[LtFinFan66]

Miami's troubles started about 8 years ago. The Ginn pick was not a bad pick

[Michael82]

Miami's troubles started about 8 years ago. The Ginn pick was not a bad pick
:rofl: It was a 9th overall pick for a really good punt returner!

[LtFinFan66]

Sure. Keep thinking that Mikey.

[arsenal]

you people are dumb... the reason the trade was made was because Welker was a FA and the contract the Pats gave him had a poison pill clause in it that would have made it impossible for the dolphins to match (thats why the original offer looked like it was for so much money, because of a huge bonus for playing x number of games in florida)...

but supposedly instead of beng asses and using the poison will, they threw in a 7th and made it a trade....

welker was gone either way

[Ickybaluky]

but supposedly instead of beng asses and using the poison will, they threw in a 7th and made it a trade....

He wasn't gone if the Dolphins had decided to spend an extra $400K on the tender, making it a 1st round pick to sign him. That is the type of decision that has led Miami to where they are, which is the possibility of being historically bad.

[lordofgun]

Miami and Oakland are ******ed.

[arsenal]

He wasn't gone if the Dolphins had decided to spend an extra $400K on the tender, making it a 1st round pick to sign him. That is the type of decision that has led Miami to where they are, which is the possibility of being historically bad.

giving your number 3 WR a 1st round tender is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard anyone suggest, even on this Bills board... WOW

thats like you guys giving Roscoe parrish 1st round tender... what you dont seem to realize is that any one in that slot spot would be producing for them right now... yes Welker is a good player, but hes not that good, right now hes the product of that high powered offense and reaping the benefits... hes not the cause of it... there is a reason hes averaging 10 yards a catch... he picks up the small underneath stuff while the defenses are trying to cover the deep stuff while brady has 20 minutes in the pocket...

learn something about football... jeez a 1st round tender and a 3rd WR, stop embarassing yourself with such nonsense

[mchurchfie]

Miami and Oakland are ******ed.
Waaaaay.

[justasportsfan]

yes Welker is a good player, but hes not that good,
while with miami. the Pats system made him better and brought out his full potential.




right now hes the product of that high powered offense and reaping the benefits... hes not the cause of it...he's part of the reason they are high powered. You can't call a team high powered and then neglect their leading catcher.


there is a reason hes averaging 10 yards a catch... he picks up the small underneath stuff while the defenses are trying to cover the deep stuff while brady has 20 minutes in the pocket...
slot guys don't average a whole lot of yards per catch


learn something about football... jeez a 1st round tender and a 3rd WR, stop embarassing yourself with such nonsense You sound bitter .

[mchurchfie]

Welker would be a whole different receiver without Moss, Stallworth, and Co. He is a really good receiver but most of his success has to be attributed to the star cast he has around him. Andre Reed went from a good receiver to becoming a Probowler when he became surrounded by Kelly, Lofton, Thurman, Mckellar, and Beebe. Miami was screwed either way, not that it hurts my feelings any.:snicker:

[Mr. Pink]

Welker makes the Pats offense go just as much as Az Zahir Hakim made the Rams - greatest show on Turf offense go. Excellent complimentary players but not true stars by themself. Wait til Welker's contract is up with the Pats and he gets a huge deal from some stupid team to be their number 1. It'll happen. And he'll disappear like Az did as a Lion.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

IMO, the Fins need a player like Satele more than they need Welker. It would be ridiculous to build your roster based on trying to keep players away from other teams. The trade made sense then and makes MORE sense now. Miami has gotten the center they needed. The OL has been one of the few bright spots this year and it is being led by a rookie.

BTW, it's a joke that the league allows teams to put poison pills in contracts like that.

[Ickybaluky]

giving your number 3 WR a 1st round tender is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard anyone suggest, even on this Bills board... WOW

He led the team in receptions. Nobody on the team caught more passes. Get it? The idea behind building a good team is to keep your good, young players, not let them go.

One of the dumbest things I've ever heard someone suggest is that it wasn't worth increasing the tender to keep the player. I guess Miami used that $400K to good use, probably allowing them to up their offer to Joey Porter. There's smart management for you.


thats like you guys giving Roscoe parrish 1st round tender... what you dont seem to realize is that any one in that slot spot would be producing for them right now... yes Welker is a good player, but hes not that good, right now hes the product of that high powered offense and reaping the benefits...

Welker is currently 3rd in the NFL in receptions. He is 15th in receiving yards. That is in the entire NFL.

He is on pace for 109 catches, 1,166 yards and 11 TD.

You may think of him as a 3rd WR, but he is producing like a #1.

But, hey, you wouldn't want a guy like that on your team, right? I mean, why spend the extra $400K?


learn something about football... jeez a 1st round tender and a 3rd WR, stop embarassing yourself with such nonsense

You are the one embarrassing yourself. You wouldn't keep your leading WR for $400K.

[RedEyE]

Allow me to explain a little differently...

Moss doesn't catch as many TDs this year as he had if it weren't for opposing secondaries having to leave him one on one doewnfield. Why? Because you have to compensate for their dominating possesion receiver.

Moss might lenghten the field, but when Welker is in the game together they divide defenses.

Simple as that. Had Miami just hung onto Welker (paid him his due), instead of drafting a guy to replace him that is nearly two times less talented, the Patriots wouldn't be as perfect an offense as they are today. Point blank.

Miami will be at fault for their own perfect season demise.

[RedEyE]

IMO, the Fins need a player like Satele more than they need Welker. It would be ridiculous to build your roster based on trying to keep players away from other teams. The trade made sense then and makes MORE sense now. Miami has gotten the center they needed. The OL has been one of the few bright spots this year and it is being led by a rookie.

BTW, it's a joke that the league allows teams to put poison pills in contracts like that.

So instead build your team around Ginn. That is essentialy what they did. Especially after they tossed Chambers from the field as well. Ginn is less talented and Welker has more upside. Bottome line is that you never trade within the division. Especially to the more dominating team.

[justasportsfan]

well they did get something for CHambers. Maybe they'll use that on a holder and the no. 1 pick overall on a long snapper.

[RedEyE]

well they did get something for CHambers. Maybe they'll use that on a holder and the no. 1 pick overall on a long snapper.

:rofl: If that happens what will Lemon do?

[justasportsfan]

:rofl: If that happens what will Lemon do? hand out gatorade to teammates.

[arsenal]

So instead build your team around Ginn. That is essentialy what they did. Especially after they tossed Chambers from the field as well. Ginn is less talented and Welker has more upside. Bottome line is that you never trade within the division. Especially to the more dominating team.
Ginn less talented? Welker has more upside?

seriously is everyone on this board a mental midget? the ******ed statements i read on here keep getting exponentially dumber...

ok so we dont make the trade... guess what happens? Welker goes anyway as a RFA and we still get that 2nd round pick just without the 7th...

morons everywhere here :shakeno:

[jamze132]

Yeah, just Welker made them the powerhouse they are :rolleyes:
Actually Welker is blowing it up over there while leading the team in receptions. Although I can't blame the Dolphins for trading him, the guy is now in a prefect situation with the perfect QB. I always likeed Welker and thought he was a pretty dangerous guy while on the Dolphins and now we all know how good he really is.

[Jeff1220]

Nobody knows the downside of trading with the Pats like us Bills fans. If they want a player, he's good. If they don't want him, he's done.

Btw, way to spin the Pats success as the Phins failure. I love it!

[FinFaninBuffalo]

So instead build your team around Ginn. That is essentialy what they did. Especially after they tossed Chambers from the field as well. Ginn is less talented and Welker has more upside. Bottome line is that you never trade within the division. Especially to the more dominating team.

WTF? Do me a favor and get a job in the personnel department of the Bills.

Welker more talented than Ginn? Give me a break.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Allow me to explain a little differently...

Moss doesn't catch as many TDs this year as he had if it weren't for opposing secondaries having to leave him one on one doewnfield. Why? Because you have to compensate for their dominating possesion receiver.

Moss might lenghten the field, but when Welker is in the game together they divide defenses.

Simple as that. Had Miami just hung onto Welker (paid him his due), instead of drafting a guy to replace him that is nearly two times less talented, the Patriots wouldn't be as perfect an offense as they are today. Point blank.

Miami will be at fault for their own perfect season demise.

Welker is drawing double teams away from Moss??????

:lol:

[superbills]

WTF? Do me a favor and get a job in the personnel department of the Bills.

Welker more talented than Ginn? Give me a break.

Racist

[FinFaninBuffalo]

Racist

Excuse me? What part of my reply can be interpreted as even remotely racist? I wasn't even aware that race was part of the discussion.

[Ickybaluky]

Welker more talented than Ginn? Give me a break.

More talented is probably not the right way to phrase it.

Better football player is probably a better description.

[The King]

This thread is a riot the Pats gave up a bag of Doritos and a half drank diet coke for Randy Moss. And we are talking about Welker.

[FinFaninBuffalo]

This thread is a riot the Pats gave up a bag of Doritos and a half drank diet coke for Randy Moss. And we are talking about Welker.

:bf1:

Best post in the entire thread.

..... the Doritos were half eaten too....

[FinFaninBuffalo]

More talented is probably not the right way to phrase it.

Better football player is probably a better description.

There is no reasonable way to compare them right now. Two totally different teams. Two totally different players. Personally, I wouldn't trade Ginn for Welker. I like Welker, but he is just the latest Wayne Crebet. Nice player, but he needs to be in the right system with a lot of surrounding talent. Give credit to the Pats, they had enough talent and extra draft picks to get a player that fit their system perfectly.

[Bling]

Worry about beating the Pats yourself, before you ***** about the almighty Patriots forcing the Dolphins to accept a trade for Welker.

[justasportsfan]

How did Beck do? Did we steal the best qb in Edwards in this years draft?

[Bling]

How did Beck do? Did we steal the best qb in Edwards in this years draft?

I don't know yet. Losman is still the starting QB.

Back to the topic.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

Last nights game was dismal but let's face facts, a young Bills team, still in search of an identity, and still digging for a decent QB, were just beaten by the best team in the league. And arguably the best team in history.

It might not be too obvious now, but by seasons end this Patriots team will have gone the distance without so much as come close to a loss. They'll have busted the Dolphins record wide open, and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Moss is amazing, and Stallworth is useful on the outside, but no one moves the ball down the field like Welker. This guy destroys defensive interiors mainly because of the domination Moss brings downfield. But make no mistake about, Welker's presence and success is equally as important as Moss'.

Miami made the trade..within the division..to an already dominate team...they can choke on that when the Patriots are lifting the Lombardi high in the air at 19-0 this season.

Dude to even say the dolphins are the reason for the pats going undefeated is f-in stupid..YOU honestly cant think because of welker that the patriots are going to be undefeated..maybe it's Tom Brady, when all said and done the best QB in NFL History..Randy Moss, one of the best WR's in the NFL when he wants to play..Donte Stallworth, who is an amazing deep threat with great speed..The whole enitre O-Line that doesnt allow Brady to be touched..Their Defense with that enitre front 7,and samuel who is a dominant corner, with harrison at safety....to honestly think that welker is the reason, is an outrage.

[justasportsfan]

I don't know yet. Losman is still the starting QB.

Back to the topic.
what about beck?

[justasportsfan]

Dude to even say the dolphins are the reason for the pats going undefeated is f-in stupid..YOU honestly cant think because of welker that the patriots are going to be undefeated..maybe it's Tom Brady, when all said and done the best QB in NFL History..Randy Moss, one of the best WR's in the NFL when he wants to play..Donte Stallworth, who is an amazing deep threat with great speed..The whole enitre O-Line that doesnt allow Brady to be touched..Their Defense with that enitre front 7,and samuel who is a dominant corner, with harrison at safety....to honestly think that welker is the reason, is an outrage.they wouldn't be as good without Welker.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

they wouldn't be as good without Welker.
OH get the hell out of here..AHAH i cant even believe you think that..who did tom brady win those superbowls with as his WR's..to think that welker has made them this much better is rediculous..they can put anyone in that slot and they'd still be dominant and go undefeated.

[The King]

OH get the hell out of here..AHAH i cant even believe you think that..who did tom brady win those superbowls with as his WR's..to think that welker has made them this much better is rediculous..they can put anyone in that slot and they'd still be dominant and go undefeated.

There is a difference between winning and destroying. This team would be great without Welker... but they are even better with him.

[justasportsfan]

OH get the hell out of here..AHAH i cant even believe you think that..who did tom brady win those superbowls with as his WR's..to think that welker has made them this much better is rediculous..they can put anyone in that slot and they'd still be dominant and go undefeated.


If Welker was thier 3rd or 4th leading reciever, I'd agree. He's their no.1 . I know they won sb without him, doesn't mean those teams then were better than the team they have now with Welker. Why do you think they are at the brink of going undefeated?

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

There is a difference between winning and destroying. This team would be great without Welker... but they are even better with him.

They'd be doing the same without Welker, i dont want to hear this..they would still be 10-0 at this point..

[justasportsfan]

They'd be doing the same without Welker, i dont want to hear this..they would still be 10-0 at this point.. Huh? Who would their no. 1 be in the slot.

[The King]

They'd be doing the same without Welker, i dont want to hear this..they would still be 10-0 at this point..

I didnt ask you what you wanted to hear.

They would still be 10-0 sure. But Welker makes them an even better football team if you think Rache Caldwell would be just as productive in the slot then you're nuts.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

If Welker was thier 3rd or 4th leading reciever, I'd agree. He's their no.1 . I know they won sb without him, doesn't mean those teams then were better than the team they have now with Welker. Why do you think they are at the brink of going undefeated?

the addition of moss, thomas, stallworth, welker(not that big of a deal when you have moss and stallworth..and O-Line that is the best in the NFL, a Defense that is arguably the best D in the nfl..not just one f-in player.

[The King]

the addition of moss, thomas, stallworth, welker(not that big of a deal when you have moss and stallworth..and O-Line that is the best in the NFL, a Defense that is arguably the best D in the nfl..not just one f-in player.

I have no idea what you're arguing. Your posts are the equivelant of 5 elephants humping one doorknob.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

I didnt ask you what you wanted to hear.

They would still be 10-0 sure. But Welker makes them an even better football team if you think Rache Caldwell would be just as productive in the slot then you're nuts.

Jabar Gaffney would be in that spot, who was a number 2 in Houston, the same as welker was in miami..tom brady makes his WR's look amazing.

[The King]

Jabar Gaffney would be in that spot, who was a number 2 in Houston, the same as welker was in miami..tom brady makes his WR's look amazing.

The names are inter changable. Gaffney is not Welker and would not have 50+ catches right now.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

I have no idea what you're arguing. Your posts are the equivelant of 5 elephants humping one doorknob.

im arguing that welker is not the reason why this team is so dominant..im arguing that it's all of the other players i have said is the reason why this team is so dominant..and your posts are equivelant of 5 elephants humping a doorknob cause you honestly believe welker is the reason why this team is the best in history.

[Ickybaluky]

OH get the hell out of here..AHAH i cant even believe you think that..who did tom brady win those superbowls with as his WR's..to think that welker has made them this much better is rediculous..they can put anyone in that slot and they'd still be dominant and go undefeated.

To think just anyone can do what Welker does is silly, if you ask me.

The fact is Welker led the Dolphins in receptions last year. The facts further show he is doing it for the Patriots as well. That is two years in a row he has caught more passes than anyone on his team.

He is on pace for 109 catches, 1,166 Yards and 11 TD. That is a great year, I don't care who the player is. Not just anyone can do that.

Welker obviously has talents. He is difficult to cover and catches a lot of passes. He keeps the chains moving, with 38 first down receptions (6th in the NFL). His big punt returns were a big part of the Pats comeback in Indy, setting them up with great field position at the end of the game. His blocking out of the slot has been amazing. The guy does it all, he is all football player.

Just because a guy isn't 6 feet tall doesn't mean he isn't a great football player. Welker is among the best in the NFL at what he does, and his skills are a key component to why the Pats are so successful in their 3rd down package. Between him and Moss, teams need to pick their poison, and one or the other is open.

Name me how many other teams got that kind of production out of a 2nd round pick, let alone a 1st. The list is short, and the kicker is the guy is only 26 years old. He was a steal.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

The names are inter changable. Gaffney is not Welker and would not have 50+ catches right now.

how do you know that? Gaffney could very well have those numbers, with Tom brady throwing him the ball.

[Mr. Pink]

To put this into perspective for a few people....

What happened to the Rams and their dominance on offense when they let Az Zahir Hakim depart as a FA? It wasn't the same, they went for years trying to replace Az in the offense and special teams.

To say Welker isn't a huge weapon and part of the reason the Pats are so dominant on offense is short sighted.

[Ickybaluky]

im arguing that welker is not the reason why this team is so dominant..im arguing that it's all of the other players i have said is the reason why this team is so dominant..and your posts are equivelant of 5 elephants humping a doorknob cause you honestly believe welker is the reason why this team is the best in history.

Your nuts. They don't win the Indy game without him.

[Ickybaluky]

how do you know that? Gaffney could very well have those numbers, with Tom brady throwing him the ball.

Gaffney is a completely different player. He is a big, possession guy who doesn't have Welker's short-area quickness.

[The King]

This dude is just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks. I am afraid to look at his former 160 posts.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

To think just anyone can do what Welker does is silly, if you ask me.

The fact is Welker led the Dolphins in receptions last year. The facts further show he is doing it for the Patriots as well. That is two years in a row he has caught more passes than anyone on his team.

He is on pace for 109 catches, 1,166 Yards and 11 TD. That is a great year, I don't care who the player is. Not just anyone can do that.

Welker obviously has talents. He is difficult to cover and catches a lot of passes. He keeps the chains moving, with 38 first down receptions (6th in the NFL). His big punt returns were a big part of the Pats comeback in Indy, setting them up with great field position at the end of the game. His blocking out of the slot has been amazing. The guy does it all, he is all football player.

Just because a guy isn't 6 feet tall doesn't mean he isn't a great football player. Welker is among the best in the NFL at what he does, and his skills are a key component to why the Pats are so successful in their 3rd down package. Between him and Moss, teams need to pick their poison, and one or the other is open.

Name me how many other teams got that kind of production out of a 2nd round pick, let alone a 1st. The list is short, and the kicker is the guy is only 26 years old. He was a steal.

holy f-in ****...you guys are acting like i dont think welker is good..i think welker is awesome..but to honestly think that he is the reason they are undefeated is a little crazy no? but i guess you guys are right, One player makes a team so dominant to win games by 30+ points a game...i guess you can put welker back on the dolphins, and they'll win everygame..or does it not have anything to with the protection brady gets, and great brady is.

[Ickybaluky]

Here is a stat for you: Welker has played the 3rd most snaps on offense for NE, behind Brady and Moss (skill players). He has played more than just spread sets, BTW.

That should tell you how important the coaching staff sees him. Not bad for a "slot WR", huh?

[Ickybaluky]

holy f-in ****...you guys are acting like i dont think welker is good..i think welker is awesome..but to honestly think that he is the reason they are undefeated is a little crazy no? but i guess you guys are right, One player makes a team so dominant to win games by 30+ points a game...i guess you can put welker back on the dolphins, and they'll win everygame..or does it not have anything to with the protection brady gets, and great brady is.

To say they could plug anyone in and be the same is asinine, IMO. The guy has played the 3rd most snaps on offense (skill players), that says something.

They don't win the Indy game without his big punt returns and tough catches in traffic. He was lit up in that game and kept coming late. Tough kid.

[Devin]

Welker was pretty great last year I dont know how the Phins would have had to overpay him but whatever.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

To say they could plug anyone in and be the same is asinine, IMO. The guy has played the 3rd most snaps on offense (skill players), that says something.

They don't win the Indy game without his big punt returns and tough catches in traffic. He was lit up in that game and kept coming late. Tough kid.
Oh i totally agree they dont win that game without him...3rd in snaps? dont they run alot of 3WR sets? i really wouldnt know, i dont watch the patriots games..welker is a biggg part of this team..but to HONESTLY think 1 player has made this team this dominant, is idk..maybe im crazy for thinking it..IMO

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

This dude is just throwing **** at the wall to see what sticks. I am afraid to look at his former 160 posts.

too see what sticks? everything sticks? HOW IS THAT ****! you mean to tell me you dont think Tom Brady and his O-line is a main reason on why this team is dominant? id hate to see your 14+ thousand posts if you dont believe me.

[mybills]

and why is this not in the NFL forum? :tap:

[Ickybaluky]

NFL All-time single-season receptions:

Marvin Harrison - 143
Herman Moore - 123
Cris Carter - 122 (twice)
Jerry Rice - 122
Isaac Bruce - 119
Tory Holt - 117
Jimmy Smith - 116
Marvin Harrison - 115
Rod Smith - 113

Hines Ward, Jerry Rice, Jimmy Smith, Sterling Sharpe and <b>Wes Welker</b> with 112.

Only ten times in NFL History has a player finished the season with more catches than Welker did this season. Look at the names on that list.

Assuming T.J. Houshmandzadeh has less than 10 catches, Welker will lead the NFL in receptions.

Remarkable.

[LtFinFan66]

It's not remarkable. He got the best QB at getting to ball to his guys in tight spaces. Tight spaces are where Welker excells. Expected!! Yes. Remarkable....not if it was expected

[Ickybaluky]

It's not remarkable. He got the best QB at getting to ball to his guys in tight spaces. Tight spaces are where Welker excells. Expected!! Yes. Remarkable....not if it was expected

You don't find in remarkable that only 10 times before in NFL history a receiver has finished with more receptions than Welker has this season? History?

That is pretty amazing. Just a great, great season.

[LtFinFan66]

No because Welker is exactly THAT receiver with a guy like Brady. I expected him to be great for Brady. As much as they have thrown, a lot of the passes to Welker were their 2007 version of the run

[Ickybaluky]

No because Welker is exactly THAT receiver with a guy like Brady. I expected him to be great for Brady. As much as they have thrown, a lot of the passes to Welker were their 2007 version of the run

You expected him to be that great? You expected him to possibly lead the NFL in receptions?

I doubt it. Nobody did. All the great passing teams in recent memory. It is a remarkable achievement.

I think you can expect Brady and Moss to put up huge numbers. Wes Welker? Just amazing.

[LtFinFan66]

I saw what he did in Miami with horrible QB play. I am honestly not surprised.