The "Better Chance To Win" Theory.

[patmoran2006]

I am honestly at wit's end right now. For the past few weeks, I've heard over and over again about how JP Losman gives the Bills a "Better Chance To Win." I mean, that's literally the reason every Losman supporter throws down with in a discussion about our quarterbacks.

Most threads end up being like two gangs taking sides, with very strong opinions that often get personal. This thread is NOT intended to be one of those so if your a troll who gets off on turning discussion into personal attacks, find another thread.

I'd like this discussion to be 100% about unbiased facts. I ask you guys (who don't already agree) this question: HOW exactly do the Buffalo Bills have a better chance of winning football games because of JP Losman over Trent Edwards?

And unlike many people on the other side of the friends, rather than just offer my personal opinions, I'm going to back it up with numbers.. Something apparently some people are obsessed with, especially when they can only come up with Trent's 1TD to 5INT ratio.

Well how about this, and at end I invite any adult discussion on exactly why Losman gives us the "better chance".

* IF JP is such an exciting "gunslinger", then why is the offense averaging more passing yards when Edwards plays (158 to 141) than Losman, and that INCLUDES the Cincinnati game Losman "went off" on?

* Edwards is completing 66.1% of his passes, Losman 62.2%. Three of Edwards' four starts have seen him complete at least 67% of his passes.

* Edwards has been sacked 9 times this year, Losman has been sacked 13 times. Edwards has one fumble this season, Losman has three fumbles. As a matter of fact, Losman has fumbled the ball 24 times and been sacked 87 times in his career.

* In JP Losman's last two starts, who many consider the "defining moment" in his career, against the worst team and the best team in the league back-to-back--- Losman has went 27-for-49 for 330 yards, 1 touchdowns and 2 interceptions. Are you telling me Edwards couldn't put up 13 points at Miami, or match losman's 10 points last night? Hell, Edwards put up 10 against NE, at New England- in the very first action of his entire career, including the best drive of our season in his FIRST action ever (the 80 yard, 12 play drive that took 6:42 off the clock). Again, and I do ask this seriously, Losman gives us a "better chance" how?

* Again, Losman is considered the mad gunslinger, yet his average yards per attempt is only 0.9 more than Edwards (7.4 to 6.5)

**** But of all the stats I researched, this is the one that burns me up the most. Some people say Losman gives us the better chance to win, yet in his career he is EXACTLY 3 and 15 against teams that have at least a .500 record. Are you kidding me? That's 20% of the time the Bills win with Losman starting when we play a team that doesn't have a losing record.

* In those 15 losses, the team (not the offense, the entire TEAM) averages 11.4 points per game. In more than half of those losses, we've failed to score more than 7 points.

* Whether you like it or not, Edwards is 3-1 as a starter, and had it not been for a fluke onside kick and bad Fewel pass defense at the end of the game, he'd be undefeated. Baltimore was a one loss team when they came to town, and Dallas was undefeated.

* Lastly, the TD and INT are misleading, although BOTH QB's have a ****ty ratio. yes, Losman has 2 more TD's, but look at those two; an underthrown bomb to Evans he wrestled away from Darrelle Reevis, and another underthrown bomb to Roscoe Parrish that the receiver came back and made an excellent play against an off-balanced Ellis Hobbs.

Unless Losman is secretly "underthrowing" every long pass he attempts (which I doubt, unless the horribly underthrown intercepted ball in the end zone at Miami was on purpose too), he's gotten bailed out on magnificent plays by WR's twice.

NOW the last part here is my opinion, based largely on facts from what we've all seen.

By comparision, some people act like Edwards is INCAPABLE of getting the ball deep. Hogwash. That 50-yard completion vs Baltimore was a dart. He threw a long nice long pass (against the Jets I believe at home) that had plenty of air on it, it was intercepted because Evans failed to fight for the ball, which Tasker pointed out.

Now don't get me wrong. Edwards is FAR from a perfect, finished product. His int against Dallas and the one vs Baltimore were TERRIBLE decisions. But then again, is that something that Losman doesn't do at least 2-3 times every game himself (honesty, even the staunchest of Losman supporters need to admit he throws some of the ugliest picks ever).

The bottom line is, based on ALL of the numbers and facts I presented, unless we're playing a bottom feeder like Houston or Cincinnati, I totally FAIL to see how JP Losman gives us a better chance to win.

Whether you like Jauron/Fairchild or not (and most of us dont) the bottom line is this team is CLEARLYYYYYY being built around a strong running attack, mixing up a variety of passes, holding on to the ball and trying to put our defense in a position to succeed. It works when Edwards is on the field for obvious reasons, it does not when Losman is on the field, for the same obvious reasons.

So one last time, without any personal bull****, I'd love for people who disagree to digest any or all of this, and then come back and tell me why I'm wrong and that Losman actually DOES give the Bills the best chance to win.

[shelby]

i applaud the spirit of this thread and hope others will respect it.

i like JP and want him to succeed, but he is inconsistent and makes bad decisions.

i don't necessarily believe he gives us the best chance to succeed. Jauron could choose to start Edwards, and i would be fine with that. He is a rookie, and could use the time to develop.

i think the FO has decided to stick with him as the starter because of the amount of vocal support he has been given by his teammates, especially Lee Evans. i also think the FO is hesitant to bench JP again because a) they hope he will generate interest from other teams and b) the Bills still have a shot to get in the playoffs. The FO is disregarding JP's performance at Miami and last night against New England. They are hoping he will play like he did against Cincy and help the team reach the postseason.

i am not biased against either player. i, too, want to see the Bills reach the postseason again. i will support whoever is behind center. This is a team sport, and all the parts need to work well together in order to find success.

:gobills:

[patmoran2006]

Good post Shelby.
I mainly agree.

The thing Im trying to find out more than anything from others, especially those who think JP should still be starting because he gives us the best chance to win, is WHY..

[Mr. Pink]

The only two points I can bring up is that one Losman brings more experience to the table. Experiene is a vital cog in being successful, well like 90% of the time it is at least. Losman at this point is a veteran, whether people on here like to admit that or not. And being a veteran whom the locker room for the most part likes goes a long way in being successful on the field. Look at what happened with Holcomb-Losman? Most of the locker room backed Holcomb and the play on the field reflected it.

Second point isn't about success this season but more so along the lines of ******ing Edwards progress. Again, same thing happened to Losman. And no I don't feel sorry for him, years later he has had a chance to get over the hump and hasn't. Throwing Edwards in too early could have detrimental effects on this franchise for the long haul. Splitting the locker room, stunting his growth, shaking his confidence are three huge examples of what could happen.

Outside of that, I got nothing. And I don't support one player or the other more, I'm just as done with the Losman experience BUT I want Trent to have full command of the team when he is named starter again.

[patmoran2006]

Another good post.
The only thing i disagree about is stunting Edwards' growth (although I disagree I DEFINITELY think Jauron is taking it into consideration, maybe the biggest reason he's not starting at the Jags)

I think Edwards has played very well for a third-round rookie, and like I said, we were very close to being undefeated with him as a starter.

From what I seen with my own eyes, it seems like despite being a rookie, Edwards thinking and demeanor on the field is already more "grown up" than Losman, who's been a first round pick in the league since 2004.. That however, is just opinion not fact.

[patmoran2006]

The only two points I can bring up is that one Losman brings more experience to the table. Experiene is a vital cog in being successful, well like 90% of the time it is at least. Losman at this point is a veteran, whether people on here like to admit that or not. And being a veteran whom the locker room for the most part likes goes a long way in being successful on the field. Look at what happened with Holcomb-Losman? Most of the locker room backed Holcomb and the play on the field reflected it.

Second point isn't about success this season but more so along the lines of ******ing Edwards progress. Again, same thing happened to Losman. And no I don't feel sorry for him, years later he has had a chance to get over the hump and hasn't. Throwing Edwards in too early could have detrimental effects on this franchise for the long haul. Splitting the locker room, stunting his growth, shaking his confidence are three huge examples of what could happen.

Outside of that, I got nothing. And I don't support one player or the other more, I'm just as done with the Losman experience BUT I want Trent to have full command of the team when he is named starter again.
Like the last paragrah and that makes sense. If Losman has the reigns and fails (which he's on the verge of doing again) then I see it hard for a locker room to fault going to Edwards, and that even includes Evans.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I did not see evens get anything deep last night

[patmoran2006]

I did not see evens get anything deep last night
Threw to him once long.. Wasn't even close to being completed. Double coverage was easily defended.

[shelby]

FTY brings up a good point: wasn't it Marv who said a quarterback should be developed slowly?

Perhaps he's encouraging Jauron to be patient and let Losman finish out the season?

[billsburgh]

Good post Shelby.
I mainly agree.

The thing Im trying to find out more than anything from others, especially those who think JP should still be starting because he gives us the best chance to win, is WHY..
he doesnt Pat, and that's never going to change. what you see is what you're going to get with JP. I've been one of JP's biggest supporters, maybe not vocally here on the zone. he was supposed to have finally turned the corner last year, but he looks no different that he did his first year starting. for whatever reason, the guy cant play consistently at the level needed to succeed in the nfl. it's a shame really because the guy has worked his ass off trying to get better, but just cant seem to put it all together.

[The Answer]

Bottom Line is that Losman is 2-6 in his in his last 8 starts going back to the critical game against the Titans last christmas. And the only two wins during this stretch have come agaisnt the dolphins (0-10) and bengals (3-7).

At some point you have to acknowledge the obvious - Losman is not a winner and he can't beat good teams. After we get pummeled in Jacksonville and Losman has his usual type of game hopefully this 'best chance to win' garbage ends once and for all.

~The Answer

[Philagape]

Usually those who say JP gives the better chance to win will point out Trent's INT-to-TD ratio and the bad timing of a couple of his picks. That's a valid point ...... based on what has happened so far.

But now, when it's clear JP is a failure, we have to throw out all the stats and think about the future. As a developing rookie, Trent's career path is just beginning, and based on the intangibles he's shown, he has upside. He can get better, and I think he can get better quickly.

Therefore I'd rather go with the unknown over a known failure. And I said the same thing after 2004 and in 2005.

[acehole]

Well cherry picking stats dont do it for me.

If the coaches agreed with you he would be starting.
So I guess we will have to see what the season brings.
The one that maters to me are the ones they flash on ESPN.
Rating, INt's to TD ratio that kind of thing.

Incase you have not noticed TE has one TD in his entire career..

That is not enough to crown anyone.

and it is from the 3 yard line...how do you like that for a stat.

High INT to TD ratio and a lower QB rating is enough for me to stand by my opinion...backed by facts...JP will give us the best chance to win now.
If you want to count that second Jets game as win for Edwards well I suppose you have the right. ...it beefs up your piont. I think he (JP)was 10th or 11th best qb last year. JP may not be the long term solution here....but I dont think he is the problem with this team. Besides if Trent Edwards becomes the QB you all think he is do you really think he stays here? He will take the highest bidder when his jail sentence here is over. The problem with this team is over all talent...and nobody has complianed about that more then you.....and now all of a sudden jp this and JP that...look at that post with salaries...that should say volumes about the real problems on this team ...The Pats sign R Moss and who do we sign to impove our weapons for the qb?... Jenkins?...anyway it doesnt mater what we think...the brain trust has decided and will decide what happens...so yea when we lose blame jp and when we win complian one of his 80 yard td passes were under thrown by 5 inches in the windy NJ....and keep asking for Trend edwards to save the day....... when we cant stop anyone.....on deffense.

Rude awakening when the Trend Edward era begins and we come to the conclusion it was no better then the Todd Collins era....

Put that in your stat pipe and smoke it...


i applaud the spirit of this thread and hope others will respect it.

i like JP and want him to succeed, but he is inconsistent and makes bad decisions.

i don't necessarily believe he gives us the best chance to succeed. Jauron could choose to start Edwards, and i would be fine with that. He is a rookie, and could use the time to develop.

i think the FO has decided to stick with him as the starter because of the amount of vocal support he has been given by his teammates, especially Lee Evans. i also think the FO is hesitant to bench JP again because a) they hope he will generate interest from other teams and b) the Bills still have a shot to get in the playoffs. The FO is disregarding JP's performance at Miami and last night against New England. They are hoping he will play like he did against Cincy and help the team reach the postseason.

i am not biased against either player. i, too, want to see the Bills reach the postseason again. i will support whoever is behind center. This is a team sport, and all the parts need to work well together in order to find success.

:gobills:

[Yasgur's Farm]

Well cherry picking stats dont do it for me.

If the coaches agreed with you he would be starting.
So I guess we will have to see what the season brings.
The one that maters to me are the ones they flash on ESPN.
Rating, INt's to TD ratio that kind of thing.

Incase you have not noticed TE has one TD in his entire career..

That is not enough to crown anyone.

and it is from the 3 yard line...how do you like that for a stat.

High INT to TD ratio and a lower QB rating is enough for me to stand by my opinion...backed by facts...JP will give us the best chance to win now.
If you want to count that second Jets game as win for Edwards well I suppose you have the right. ...it beefs up your piont. I think he (JP)was 10th or 11th best qb last year. JP may not be the long term solution here....but I dont think he is the problem with this team. Besides if Trent Edwards becomes the QB you all think he is do you really think he stays here? He will take the highest bidder when his jail sentence here is over. The problem with this team is over all talent...and nobody has complianed about that more then you.....and now all of a sudden jp this and JP that...look at that post with salaries...that should say volumes about the real problems on this team ...The Pats sign R Moss and who do we sign to impove our weapons for the qb?... Jenkins?...anyway it doesnt mater what we think...the brain trust has decided and will decide what happens...so yea when we lose blame jp and when we win complian one of his 80 yard td passes were under thrown by 5 inches in the windy NJ....and keep asking for Trend edwards to save the day....... when we cant stop anyone.....on deffense.

Rude awakening when the Trend Edward era begins and we come to the conclusion it was no better then the Todd Collins era....

Put that in your stat pipe and smoke it...I've vowed to stay out of QB debates last week... I'm sticking to it :fishy:

[DynaPaul]

If/once we get out of playoff contention, JP will lose his job and Edwards will take over and that, my friends, will be the official end of the JP era.

[Ebenezer]

here are the stats that count for me:

JP:
Denver - 14 points
Pittsburgh - 3 points
NYJ - 10 points
Cincy - 33 points
Miami - 11 points
NE - 10 points

Trent:
NE - 7 points
NYJ - 17 points
Dallas - 3 points
Baltimore - 19 points
NYJ - 3 points

The offense is not good enough, consistantly enough to score 20 points regardless the QB. The two QBs appear to be pretty much neck and neck at this point in their development which long-term gives TE the edge that he will be the eventual starter.

However, the Bills have an outside chance to make the playoffs for the first time since 1999. JP probably gives them the best chance of making the playoffs. Let JP start against Jax and if they lose then the playoffs are out. At that point you can start TE and move on. Unless the FO is willing to let JP audition for being the long term starter then this is how it should play out.

[patmoran2006]

Well cherry picking stats dont do it for me.

If the coaches agreed with you he would be starting.
So I guess we will have to see what the season brings.
The one that maters to me are the ones they flash on ESPN.
Rating, INt's to TD ratio that kind of thing.

Incase you have not noticed TE has one TD in his entire career..

That is not enough to crown anyone.

and it is from the 3 yard line...how do you like that for a stat.

High INT to TD ratio and a lower QB rating is enough for me to stand by my opinion...backed by facts...JP will give us the best chance to win now.
If you want to count that second Jets game as win for Edwards well I suppose you have the right. ...it beefs up your piont. I think he (JP)was 10th or 11th best qb last year. JP may not be the long term solution here....but I dont think he is the problem with this team. Besides if Trent Edwards becomes the QB you all think he is do you really think he stays here? He will take the highest bidder when his jail sentence here is over. The problem with this team is over all talent...and nobody has complianed about that more then you.....and now all of a sudden jp this and JP that...look at that post with salaries...that should say volumes about the real problems on this team ...The Pats sign R Moss and who do we sign to impove our weapons for the qb?... Jenkins?...anyway it doesnt mater what we think...the brain trust has decided and will decide what happens...so yea when we lose blame jp and when we win complian one of his 80 yard td passes were under thrown by 5 inches in the windy NJ....and keep asking for Trend edwards to save the day....... when we cant stop anyone.....on deffense.

Rude awakening when the Trend Edward era begins and we come to the conclusion it was no better then the Todd Collins era....

Put that in your stat pipe and smoke it...
Before I put that in my stat pipe and smoke it, are you trying to tell me that you're impressed with Losman's 3 TD to 4 INT ratio? Or his 3-15 mark against non-losing opposition?

There are a lot more to stats than just TD's to interceptions. Some horrible passes and/or 2 yard dumpoffs end up being TD"s, and some beautiful passes end up being intercepted.

I'll take completion percentage and won/loss record over TD to INT any day of the week. Terry Bradshaw won FOUR Super Bowls and is regarded as one of the better QB's in history, yet only had two more TD's than INT (212-210) for his entire career.

It doesn't matter if you throw TD's or not, it matters if your offense gets in the end zone. Neither QB has done a good job of it. The difference is JP's had three years to get it right and still can't.

[acehole]

If/once we get out of playoff contention, JP will lose his job and Edwards will take over and that, my friends, will be the official end of the JP era.

AGREE

[acehole]

No pat I am trying to say that he has been winning since he was put back into the line up. You wanted to say that NE game was his put up or shut up game...knowing we would lose. We were playing a superbowl caliber team without our starting RB.....did you really think we had a shot pat? And yes I might be more supportive if it were a 50/50 ratio like Terry bradshaw...but it isnt it is 20/80. If you are a qb in the NFL you have to do better then that. That is what made my mind up. I dont think Trent is ready.....promising but not ready. The cowboys game was the topper for me.....your deffense playes beyond thier means and picks romo off like 4 or 5 times...all we needed from trent was somthing a TD to win the game......he did not get it done either,...he aint ready....Oh and that win loss record Trent has...dig deeper...one of those wins he was credited with was when Jp came in...I was there..he took that game over. How can you brandish Trents record when 2 of the 3 wins came against losing teams and then throw that in JP's face about 3-15 against real teams....Come on Pat? 3 years this three years that....With the exception of the Pats game (Which was a forgone conclusion at kick off) he has won since he has been in the line up. Yes he was not pretty that game against the Pats no doubt...the Pats made Manning look like Tod Collins also.....so whats your point anyway...throw trent in and we would have been fine against the pats? Please. Did you even see that ravens game? The Bills won inspite of Trend...not because of him. Dig Pat....dont you want to be a reporter or somthing? All people want to see and talk about is JP...look around more to it then that if you choose to look.



Before I put that in my stat pipe and smoke it, are you trying to tell me that you're impressed with Losman's 3 TD to 4 INT ratio? Or his 3-15 mark against non-losing opposition?

There are a lot more to stats than just TD's to interceptions. Some horrible passes and/or 2 yard dumpoffs end up being TD"s, and some beautiful passes end up being intercepted.

I'll take completion percentage and won/loss record over TD to INT any day of the week. Terry Bradshaw won FOUR Super Bowls and is regarded as one of the better QB's in history, yet only had two more TD's than INT (212-210) for his entire career.

It doesn't matter if you throw TD's or not, it matters if your offense gets in the end zone. Neither QB has done a good job of it. The difference is JP's had three years to get it right and still can't.

[HHURRICANE]

i applaud the spirit of this thread and hope others will respect it.

i like JP and want him to succeed, but he is inconsistent and makes bad decisions.

i don't necessarily believe he gives us the best chance to succeed. Jauron could choose to start Edwards, and i would be fine with that. He is a rookie, and could use the time to develop.

i think the FO has decided to stick with him as the starter because of the amount of vocal support he has been given by his teammates, especially Lee Evans. i also think the FO is hesitant to bench JP again because a) they hope he will generate interest from other teams and b) the Bills still have a shot to get in the playoffs. The FO is disregarding JP's performance at Miami and last night against New England. They are hoping he will play like he did against Cincy and help the team reach the postseason.

i am not biased against either player. i, too, want to see the Bills reach the postseason again. i will support whoever is behind center. This is a team sport, and all the parts need to work well together in order to find success.

:gobills:

Wow, who can argue with this? Good post.

[HHURRICANE]

Bottom Line is that Losman is 2-6 in his in his last 8 starts going back to the critical game against the Titans last christmas. And the only two wins during this stretch have come agaisnt the dolphins (0-10) and bengals (3-7).

At some point you have to acknowledge the obvious - Losman is not a winner and he can't beat good teams. After we get pummeled in Jacksonville and Losman has his usual type of game hopefully this 'best chance to win' garbage ends once and for all.

~The Answer

Yes, Losman will get pummeled and we will lose this game.

Jauron could have ended the debate but it's safer for Losman to do his dirty work for him.

[raphael120]

No pat I am trying to say that he has been winning since he was put back into the line up. You wanted to say that NE game was his put up or shut up game...knowing we would lose. We were playing a superbowl caliber team without our starting RB.....did you really think we had a shot pat? And yes I might be more supportive if it were a 50/50 ratio like Terry bradshaw...but it isnt it is 20/80. If you are a qb in the NFL you have to do better then that. That is what made my mind up. I dont think Trent is ready.....promising but not ready. The cowboys game was the topper for me.....your deffense playes beyond thier means and picks romo off like 4 or 5 times...all we needed from trent was somthing a TD to win the game......he did not get it done either,...he aint ready....Oh and that win loss record Trent has...dig deeper...one of those wins he was credited with was when Jp came in...I was there..he took that game over. How can you brandish Trents record when 2 of the 3 wins came against losing teams and then throw that in JP's face about 3-15 against real teams....Come on Pat? 3 years this three years that....With the exception of the Pats game (Which was a forgone conclusion at kick off) he has won since he has been in the line up. Yes he was not pretty that game against the Pats no doubt...the Pats made Manning look like Tod Collins also.....so whats your point anyway...throw trent in and we would have been fine against the pats? Please. Did you even see that ravens game? The Bills won inspite of Trend...not because of him. Dig Pat....dont you want to be a reporter or somthing? All people want to see and talk about is JP...look around more to it then that if you choose to look.

I highly doubt, and I think the main reason Pat posted this, wasn't about the game last night and JP, it was about the other 30-some games he's started already and we've been bad.

Now one thing I have a problem with has nothing to do with WR talent or playcalling. It's QB fundamentals. Finding the open WR, utilizing your safey valve/dump off pass. Throwing the ball away when nothing is open instead of trying to take off and fumbling the ball/getting sacked. Underthrowing a wide open WR, bouncing passes to WR...

Fact of the matter is, whether Trent Edwards can be our future QB remains to be seen, but I think one thing that is for certain, JP is not going to be a QB in Buffalo past this season. He has a large body of work, he has not improved, and stats show this. Sometimes stats don't explain it all and if you just see how uncomfortable and finicky JP looks in the pocket, it's like he's starting for the first time.

I like JP, I like how he's so commited to Buffalo, and honestly, I was kinda pissed when they benched him when JP was fully healthy. But then after seeing him against Miami, I just lost it again. It was like watching a game from 2 years ago. I know people want to hold out hope, and people want to clinge onto JP. People want to compare Trent Edwards to Todd Collins. People want to compare him to Jim Kelly. What the hell people? Listen, I know it's going to be hard for Bills fans to get a grasp onto this fact:

The Buffalo Bills are no where near, nor will they probably ever be again, the Buffalo Bills of the Super Bowl years. They have the same team name, and they wore the same helmet, but the comparisons end there.

JP is JP, and honestly he's looking a lot like a mobile Drew Bledsoe right now, minus the inflated stats.

Trent Edwards is...???? Who knows. All I know is that when he was in, it was nice to see someone who was accurate, moved the chains, and LOOKED like a confident QB. That's a lot of solid skills you can build off of, a lot more solid than just being gifted athletically with a big arm and fast legs. Last time I checked, QB's needed to more than just run and throw the long bomb to be successful in the NFL.

Listen, I still believe the main problem is Jauron and Fairchild, but I also think JP doesn't help the situation when he is the one at fault when he's not executing plays and not being accurate.

Bills fans want to hold onto the whole "we still have a shot at the playoffs" thing.

Would you rather limp into the wild card with JP and lose in that wild card game, or be 7-9 again with Trent Edwards looking to be a promising QB to build around next season?

Bills fans, face the facts...this is going to be a very long shot to make the playoffs. Im a fan, but Im also someone who knows how this team operates. We lose next week, it's over. We need to show we can beat teams like Jax or we're not going anywhere. And if we can't beat them with our "best" option in JP, then he's not good enough and we need to find out who can be.

[acehole]

Yes I would rather limp into playoffs...we may just have somthing to build off of and gain some confidence for nest year.



I highly doubt, and I think the main reason Pat posted this, wasn't about the game last night and JP, it was about the other 30-some games he's started already and we've been bad.

Now one thing I have a problem with has nothing to do with WR talent or playcalling. It's QB fundamentals. Finding the open WR, utilizing your safey valve/dump off pass. Throwing the ball away when nothing is open instead of trying to take off and fumbling the ball/getting sacked. Underthrowing a wide open WR, bouncing passes to WR...

Fact of the matter is, whether Trent Edwards can be our future QB remains to be seen, but I think one thing that is for certain, JP is not going to be a QB in Buffalo past this season. He has a large body of work, he has not improved, and stats show this. Sometimes stats don't explain it all and if you just see how uncomfortable and finicky JP looks in the pocket, it's like he's starting for the first time.

I like JP, I like how he's so commited to Buffalo, and honestly, I was kinda pissed when they benched him when JP was fully healthy. But then after seeing him against Miami, I just lost it again. It was like watching a game from 2 years ago. I know people want to hold out hope, and people want to clinge onto JP. People want to compare Trent Edwards to Todd Collins. People want to compare him to Jim Kelly. What the hell people? Listen, I know it's going to be hard for Bills fans to get a grasp onto this fact:

The Buffalo Bills are no where near, nor will they probably ever be again, the Buffalo Bills of the Super Bowl years. They have the same team name, and they wore the same helmet, but the comparisons end there.

JP is JP, and honestly he's looking a lot like a mobile Drew Bledsoe right now, minus the inflated stats.

Trent Edwards is...???? Who knows. All I know is that when he was in, it was nice to see someone who was accurate, moved the chains, and LOOKED like a confident QB. That's a lot of solid skills you can build off of, a lot more solid than just being gifted athletically with a big arm and fast legs. Last time I checked, QB's needed to more than just run and throw the long bomb to be successful in the NFL.

Listen, I still believe the main problem is Jauron and Fairchild, but I also think JP doesn't help the situation when he is the one at fault when he's not executing plays and not being accurate.

Bills fans want to hold onto the whole "we still have a shot at the playoffs" thing.

Would you rather limp into the wild card with JP and lose in that wild card game, or be 7-9 again with Trent Edwards looking to be a promising QB to build around next season?

Bills fans, face the facts...this is going to be a very long shot to make the playoffs. Im a fan, but Im also someone who knows how this team operates. We lose next week, it's over. We need to show we can beat teams like Jax or we're not going anywhere. And if we can't beat them with our "best" option in JP, then he's not good enough and we need to find out who can be.

[BillsFever21]

at New England[/B]



I didn't need to read the rest after seeing you state that Edwards scored 10 points against the Patriots in his first game. You would think that with this entire long thread of BS you would make sure you have your facts straight. Being wrong about scoring 7 or 10 isn't a big deal but when you are making it a big deal then it is. This could be contributed to numerous things.

A. Your lack of knowledge and exaggeration about the game. This part wouldn't surprise me.

B. Making up things to try and prove a point. This is possible too.

Considering Trent's offense scored 48 points in 5 games with numerous short fields set up by the defense and JP's offense has scored 66 points in the last 3 1/4 of a game then your stats are dead.

Well. He had 3 points against Dallas. He had 3 points against the Jets. He had 48 points in 5 games. The most points he has had all year was 19. He has thrown for 77 YARDS IN THE 4th QUARTER.

You can try and yawn us with whatever crap you want but you need to get a grip on yourself and get a life.

[Ebenezer]

I didn't need to read the rest after seeing you state that Edwards scored 10 points against the Patriots in his first game. You would think that with this entire long thread of BS you would make sure you have your facts straight. Being wrong about scoring 7 or 10 isn't a big deal but when you are making it a big deal then it is. This could be contributed to numerous things.

A. Your lack of knowledge and exaggeration about the game. This part wouldn't surprise me.

B. Making up things to try and prove a point. This is possible too.

Considering Trent's offense scored 48 points in 5 games with numerous short fields set up by the defense and JP's offense has scored 66 points in the last 3 1/4 of a game then your stats are dead.

Well. He had 3 points against Dallas. He had 3 points against the Jets. He had 48 points in 5 games. The most points he has had all year was 19. He has thrown for 77 YARDS IN THE 4th QUARTER.

You can try and yawn us with whatever crap you want but you need to get a grip on yourself and get a life.
and he got that first 7 against NE when they bascially sat back on defense when JP was knocked out...how many times has a reserve QB come in and scored because the defense just wasn't expecting him to play? It happens a lot.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I didn't need to read the rest after seeing you state that Edwards scored 10 points against the Patriots in his first game. You would think that with this entire long thread of BS you would make sure you have your facts straight. Being wrong about scoring 7 or 10 isn't a big deal but when you are making it a big deal then it is. This could be contributed to numerous things.

A. Your lack of knowledge and exaggeration about the game. This part wouldn't surprise me.

B. Making up things to try and prove a point. This is possible too.

Considering Trent's offense scored 48 points in 5 games with numerous short fields set up by the defense and JP's offense has scored 66 points in the last 3 1/4 of a game then your stats are dead.

Well. He had 3 points against Dallas. He had 3 points against the Jets. He had 48 points in 5 games. The most points he has had all year was 19. He has thrown for 77 YARDS IN THE 4th QUARTER.

You can try and yawn us with whatever crap you want but you need to get a grip on yourself and get a life.

[TacklingDummy]

Pat, did you really think you would get a answer?

[jamze132]

I think the only reason JP is starting against the Jagaurs is one last opportunity to prove his worth. Dick can't really put Trent back in there and use the NE debacle the other night as JPs last test. So I think if the offense is once again stagnant next week, it will be the last time we see JP. Adn it wouldn't suprise me if Trent get put in halfway through the 3rd qtr.

[Michael82]

Would you rather limp into the wild card with JP and lose in that wild card game, or be 7-9 again with Trent Edwards looking to be a promising QB to build around next season?
I'd happily limp into the playoffs anyday. :up:

[acehole]

I think the only reason JP is starting against the Jagaurs is one last opportunity to prove his worth. Dick can't really put Trent back in there and use the NE debacle the other night as JPs last test. So I think if the offense is once again stagnant next week, it will be the last time we see JP. Adn it wouldn't suprise me if Trent get put in halfway through the 3rd qtr.

I think he will start until we are out mathmatically from the playoffs.

[The Answer]

Yes, Losman will get pummeled and we will lose this game.

Jauron could have ended the debate but it's safer for Losman to do his dirty work for him.

But we probably aren't going to have Lynch - shouldn't that be a valid excuse for Losman for the inevitable multiple sack and INT game to come against a 7-3 football team on the road?

~The Answer

[acehole]

But we probably aren't going to have Lynch - shouldn't that be a valid excuse for Losman for the inevitable multiple sack and INT game to come against a 7-3 football team on the road?

~The Answer

God I would love to see what trend can do in the same situation.

[raphael120]

For those fans that said they're rather limp into the playoffs and lose, you need to really get out of the Buffalo bubble you live in and get into the real world where fans want the Superbowl and nothing less.

Steelers fans dont want to limp into the playoffs and lose, they want a Superbowl.

The loser mentality that surrounds the Bills is very sad. But I really can't blame anyone for having it.