TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

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  • Ed
    Registered User
    • Sep 2002
    • 9176

    TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

    What's the secret to stopping the likes of Terrell Owens and Randy Moss? Tuesday Morning Quarterback has the answer.


    Terrell Owens and Randy Moss just cleaned the clocks of the Washington Redskins and Buffalo Bills, catching four touchdown passes apiece Sunday. Here is a possible solution when dealing with guys like Owens and Moss: Cover them!

    Man-on-man, that is. Perhaps manly-man-on-manly-man. For most of the two contests in which these gentlemen ran wild, the Washington and Buffalo defenses were in some version of Cover 2, meaning zone, meaning no one had the specific responsibility to stick with Owens or Moss. In a Cover 2, the cornerbacks watch the short zone for outs and curls and the safeties watch the deep zone. The Cover 2 is often effective. Its weakness is that no one is specifically assigned to the other team's best receiver. Just as, when splitting a large-group dinner check, each diner might find it convenient to assume the next person will take care of the tip, in a Cover 2, each defensive back might find it convenient to think, "The safety will get him." The result is letting the other team's best receiver fly down the field unguarded.

    With Dallas leading 21-16 and the game tense, Owens ran an "up" against a Washington soft-zone look. Redskins cornerback Shawn Springs stood there and watched Owens fly past; Springs covered no one, and Owens caught a 52-yard touchdown, providing the game's winning margin. With New England leading 7-0 at Buffalo, Moss ran an "up" against a Bills soft-zone look. Buffalo cornerback Terrence McGee stood there and watched Moss fly past; McGee covered no one, and Moss caught a 43-yard touchdown, sparking what would become a rout by halftime. Randy Moss and Terrell Owens were not covered by anyone going deep. Moss' touchdown was especially ridiculous because the Bills rushed only two on that play. Nine defenders dropped into coverage, yet no one guarded Randy Moss going deep.

    Nine guys available and no one guards the other team's best receiver: This sums up the it's-not-my-job flaw of the zone pass defense. And don't tell me the cornerback is supposed to let the receiver go deep so the corner can watch the flat. On both the touchdown passes cited above, there was no receiver in the flat. Both cornerbacks just stood there while the other team's star roared past them for a touchdown. Nor are these two plays exceptions. On several of the eight Moss/Owens scores Sunday, cornerbacks simply watched as these threats raced upfield, covered by no one. Andre Johnson of Houston also was covered by no one as he started upfield, against a soft zone, for what would become a 73-yard touchdown.

    The soft zone works for disciplined teams such as Indianapolis, but for sketchy teams such as Washington and Buffalo, it seems to promote it's-not-my-job thinking. Hey, he wasn't my man! If the Cover 2 doesn't prevent deep strikes -- and that's supposed to be the big virtue of playing Cover 2 -- then what is being accomplished? Defensive coordinators, pick your best cornerback and tell him: Wherever Moss or Owens goes, you go. You're on him like glue, and it's your responsibility, no one else's. Challenge your best defender: That's the way to counter a great receiver. And before you say, "Man coverage can be burned deep," what exactly did we observe Owens and Moss doing to soft zones? Play man-to-man. It's manly!
  • colin
    Drew's my hero!
    • Jul 2002
    • 2491

    #2
    Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

    meh

    washington was banged up, springs is dealing with his father's issues. the bills have tons of injuries on D and had a back up WR playing FS.

    cover 2 can work, you just need some players

    Comment

    • YardRat
      Well, lookie here...
      • Dec 2004
      • 85606

      #3
      Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

      I don't agree that the flaw is in the coverage scheme itself...The flaw is not getting pressure on the QB, which any zone defense depends on.
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      • djjimkelly
        Registered User
        • Apr 2003
        • 7045

        #4
        Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

        the system sucks get over it. most cover 2 teams in this league man up alot anyway except us

        Comment

        • EDS
          Registered User
          • Jan 2003
          • 5209

          #5
          Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

          Originally posted by djjimkelly
          the system sucks get over it. most cover 2 teams in this league man up alot anyway except us
          Agreed.

          Comment

          • Akhippo
            Registered User
            • Nov 2002
            • 838

            #6
            Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

            The flaw is in technique. You have to bump and run with them, then turn them loose to the safeties. Then the corners stop and look into their zone for anybody coming across.
            Not sit 7 yards back, watch the WR get up to full steam and run right past them. The WR will close on the safeties to quickly and will lead to what happened earlier.
            The bump and run accompanied with a quick pass run leads to a quick throw which helps the secondary.
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            Comment

            • EDS
              Registered User
              • Jan 2003
              • 5209

              #7
              Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

              Originally posted by Akhippo
              The flaw is in technique. You have to bump and run with them, then turn them loose to the safeties. Then the corners stop and look into their zone for anybody coming across.
              Not sit 7 yards back, watch the WR get up to full steam and run right past them. The WR will close on the safeties to quickly and will lead to what happened earlier.
              The bump and run accompanied with a quick pass run leads to a quick throw which helps the secondary.
              The corners were playing ten yards off the line of scrimmage, they can't bump and run, which just shows how bad the scheme is.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

                But Jauron was coach of the week!

                Frankly I didn't see a whole lot of coverage on any receiver on Sunday nor in most prior weeks. Do Baltimore, Miami, and the Jets have good QBs or something.

                Cincy did in Palmer, but then again, and amidst the complete absence of a running game, he had a good game against us.

                Comment

                • raphael120
                  Jason Peters rigorous at home training regiment
                  • Oct 2005
                  • 5152

                  #9
                  Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

                  Originally posted by colin
                  meh

                  washington was banged up, springs is dealing with his father's issues. the bills have tons of injuries on D and had a back up WR playing FS.

                  cover 2 can work, you just need some players

                  And JP doesn't suck, he just had a bad hair day Sunday, right?

                  Give me a break.

                  Doesn't take a genius D coordinator or a genius safety to know that you should cover the best WR in the league EVERY PLAY

                  Comment

                  • OpIv37
                    Acid Douching Asswipe
                    • Sep 2002
                    • 100871

                    #10
                    Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

                    I think the Cover 2 is deeply flawed because it requires damn near perfect personnel and we're nowhere close. But I really think that's beside the point.

                    What's even more frustrating is that our coaches never deviated from the scheme. I don't think we have anyone that can cover Moss one on one, but what's the harm in trying? What's the worst that can happen? 7 straight TDs? oh, wait....
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                    • DynaPaul
                      Registered User
                      • Sep 2003
                      • 7540

                      #11
                      Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

                      I've been saying forever that to beat these guys you have to jam them up ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. How do these coaches not see something so simple? The philosophy is freakin' easy: jam them up on the line and this gives them no opportunity to get a full charge up and run out there on the field. Let the weaker wide receivers get covered with the zone. If your corner is physical enough it'd be ideal to just knock the WR on his ass right on the line.

                      Comment

                      • colin
                        Drew's my hero!
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 2491

                        #12
                        Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

                        you guys make me laugh.

                        look at the super bowl teams

                        rams -- cover 2
                        tampa -- cover 2
                        pats, pitts -- 3-4
                        indy -- cover 2
                        bears -- cover 2
                        seattle -- cover 2
                        carolina + philly -- 4-3s with a ton of money and talent on the front 4

                        lots of different ways to do it, with cover 2 being a fine option.

                        it doesn't mean we didn't scheme correctly every play, or that we have to be in zone all the time.

                        pretending that you know how the formations work and that a switch to a 3-4 is a good idea, even tho it will mean about 6 new starters on D just to put guys in spots is ******ed.

                        we got destroyed by the pats because we don't have the talent, pats didn't make the mistakes, and we played with no guts.

                        remember what that cover 2 d with the same lack luster squad and all the injuries did to cincy and dallas? miami has a decent O and we shut them down, and held the jests to 3 at NJ.

                        if you don't have lots of talent in the secondary big super good WRs are gonna run amok. washington had injuries and although talented the only safety they had who ever started was a rook against TO.

                        for all the goofs saying the cover 2 has a problem because it requires perfect personal, how has the jets or miami's 3-4 done this year? how about cincy's 4-3?

                        everyone needs players, don't be nuts

                        Comment

                        • jamze132
                          Registered User
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 29024

                          #13
                          Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

                          A little man on man action never hurt anyone...

                          I have never been a fan of a zone defense to begin with. Everyone pick a man and stick with him. It also negates those pesky little screens and swing passes to the backs which almost always end up moving the chains.

                          Comment

                          • OpIv37
                            Acid Douching Asswipe
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 100871

                            #14
                            Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

                            Originally posted by colin
                            you guys make me laugh.

                            look at the super bowl teams

                            rams -- cover 2
                            tampa -- cover 2
                            pats, pitts -- 3-4
                            indy -- cover 2
                            bears -- cover 2
                            seattle -- cover 2
                            carolina + philly -- 4-3s with a ton of money and talent on the front 4
                            Cover 2 teams:
                            Rams-2-8
                            Tampa- 6-4
                            Indy 8-2
                            Bears- 4-6
                            Seattle 6-4

                            Non-cover 2 teams
                            NE 10-0
                            Pitt 7-3
                            Carolina 4-6
                            Philly 5-5

                            You're not really making your case too well that the Cover 2 is better. When Tampa and Chicago went to the SB, they had the PERFECT personnel for the Cover 2. When Indy and St Louis did it, they had high powered offenses that forced other teams to pass into the strength of the D. Buffalo has neither of those things, so it's fitting a square peg to a round hole.

                            And anyway, even if the D isn't fundamentally flawed, it wasn't working against NE. Yet, our coaches kept trying it. Again and again. And they got 7 TD's out of it. They should have at least tried something different, but they didn't- they kept doing the same thing and expecting different results. That's the definition of insanity.
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                            Comment

                            • colin
                              Drew's my hero!
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 2491

                              #15
                              Re: TMQ: Bills Zone defense flawed

                              you really don't know what you are talking about OPV.

                              our coaches tried a bunch of different things against NE. none of it worked.

                              obviously a different preperation would have been better (like against dallas when the D nearly won the game all by themselves) but it's not like you can change everything once the game starts.

                              and if you look at the teams above you'll notice the deciding factor in the better teams is solid QB play. they run different O's as well. are you gonna pretend you are a super expert and you know what os should be run, or which one's are flawed.

                              we don't have much talent, and our injuries have killed us.


                              your silly perfect argument can be used for the 3-4 as well.

                              3-4 teams to win superbowl in the past 10 years:

                              pats
                              Pitts

                              and the bills went 0-4 in the super bowl with a 3-4

                              SCRAP TEH 3-4 YOU NEEDZ TEH PERFECT PERSONALZ!!

                              Comment

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