Re: i just can't believe all the excuses people make for this guy

[jpdex12]

Will you finally call an end to the JP era if we walk away with a loss this weekend against the Jags and he has a sub par game?

What will it take for most of our fans to say it's time for JP to move on?

Just curious.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

Go BIlls!
I dont care if Punky Brewster is the QB!
GO BILLS!

[jpdex12]

I say this is his last game if he doesn't show something.

[Luisito23]

Even if he has 10 INT's, throws 57yds. and fumbles the ball 5 times, people here will still defend, and make excuses for him...It's just the way it is around here.....




GO BILLS!!!!!!!!

[jpdex12]

Even if he has 10 INT's, throws 57yds. and fumbles the ball 5 times, people here will still defend, and make excuses for him...It's just the way it is around here.....




GO BILLS!!!!!!!!

Give it until one more loss and if that loss is this weekend and he sucks then you will start to see some fans changing their minds here. I'm ready for a permanent change. If we havent seen some consistancy out of him by now after 30 something starts then guess what? It aint coming!

[mikemac2001]

really depends on his performance

Needs to show something now or he will be gone....im a jp guy but he is starting to lose his welcome here

i dont blame him for NE loss we got raped but he needs to show up rest of season if not he is gone

[jpdex12]

really depends on his performance

Needs to show something now or he will be gone....im a jp guy but he is starting to lose his welcome here

i dont blame him for NE loss we got raped but he needs to show up rest of season if not he is gone

I supported him as well but time has run out. I want to know what you birds think if he has a poor game or even an average game this weekend, then will he get benched?

I say Yup!

[SquishDaFish]

Who cares who the QB is as long as the team is competing. We need a NEW QB in the offseason period.

[mybills]

Doesn't matter what we want. If they want him to finish the year, he's going to. Get over it.

[colin]

zero chance jp is our qb next season.

good (but not sure) chance trent is our starter.

i really don't know why the coaches are starting jp still, but i think marshawn being hurt and giving jp enough rope might be the reason.

[jamze132]

This next game is JPs last audition for the job. If he plays decent and we win, he stays behind center. Anything else, its the pine.

[hydro]

Who cares who the QB is as long as the team is competing. We need a NEW QB in the offseason period.

No we don't... we need to give Trent a chance.

[mybills]

This next game is JPs last audition for the job. If he plays decent and we win, he stays behind center. Anything else, its the pine.
I disagree. I think they'll make him finish this year. They're past pay incentives, TE's already been injured (so they say) and Jauron is gonna want him very healthy for next year when JP is gone. If they had so much confidence in Trent, and so much disgust for JP, why did they miss the trade deadline? It's only fans arguing about this topic, and it's stupid.

[Meathead]

well as much as i dont like to say so im pretty close to saying yes

he was bad against denver. at the time i thought it was because denver was good but thats not looking like the case now. he gets some relief cuz the whole team was bad that day especially a new ol. still that now looks like a very negative day for him

he was mediocre at best against pitts. again the team wasnt very good although the d played well for a half. and of course pitt is very good. still a wash game for him at best

good against the jets in relief

good to v good against cincy

very bad against the fish until the fourth then was pretty good to get the w

mediocre against the nearly flawless pats

so overall grade would probably be mediocre. hes gotta be better than mediocre against the jags to keep his job imo

i wouldnt have said that a couple weeks ago but frankly its the miami game that has changed my mind. yes he made plays at the end to pull out the win but i was shocked at how bad he was to start that game. he wasnt just bad he was horrible, totally lost. then throwing that carbon copy pick underthrowing an open evans who woulda scored, well that whole thing is just too far off the mark for an owen opponent

if he doesnt play a significant role in the bills winning at jax, or perhaps play well but lose and not his fault, then i would start to consider the pine as appropriate. at that point it would take running the table and getting help to make the playoffs and if jp cant be a key part of making stuff happen for the better part of three straight games, well at this point in his career thats a really bad sign

good luck jp. which way will you go

[TacklingDummy]

Who cares who the QB is as long as the team is competing. We need a NEW QB in the offseason period.

We already have one on the roster. Who the Bills happen to be 3-1 when he starts. Or are you giving up on him after only 4 games?

So easy to give up on Trent.

[Jimbuktu]

Give it until one more loss and if that loss is this weekend and he sucks then you will start to see some fans changing their minds here. I'm ready for a permanent change. If we havent seen some consistancy out of him by now after 30 something starts then guess what? It aint coming!


Exactly. I've supported JP. He's had his chances.

If he ****s up the next two games, I think it's time to see what we really have in Edwards. These are the games you HAVE to win. And if he can't do it, he's not starting QB material in Buffalo.

[JD]

I can't wait for Mikey to post here.

A veteran making rookie mistakes and forcing the ball down the field with minimal success.

or

A rookie making rookie mistakes but showing poise in the pocket and working the ball down field.


Which would you choose?

[Gunzlingr]

Even if he has 10 INT's, throws 57yds. and fumbles the ball 5 times, people here will still defend, and make excuses for him...It's just the way it is around here.....




GO BILLS!!!!!!!!

This isn't a thread about Trent, it is about JP.

[PECKERWOOD]

IMO, it's JP era till the season is finished.

[Oaf]

I'm saying if JP throws more than 1 pick and can't engineer more than 13 offensive points and we lose, we start Edwards.

Is that the answer you were looking for?

[mikemac2001]

We already have one on the roster. Who the Bills happen to be 3-1 when he starts. Or are you giving up on him after only 4 games?

So easy to give up on Trent.


the 3-1 stat kills me you give trent credit for the win JP had in the 4th qtr but dont give him a loss for the 4 qtrs he played againist NE

Thats why stats are flawed and you continue to used flaw stats to argue your points

Tho i feel JP is gone its just annoying to see you always use flawed stats

[Jan Reimers]

I just call myself a Bills' fan.

[camelcowboy]

the 3-1 stat kills me you give trent credit for the win JP had in the 4th qtr but dont give him a loss for the 4 qtrs he played againist NE

Thats why stats are flawed and you continue to used flaw stats to argue your points

Tho i feel JP is gone its just annoying to see you always use flawed stats I love that everyone gives JP credit for saving the jets game even though it was tied game in the forth quarter :rolleyes:

[jpdex12]

Doesn't matter what we want. If they want him to finish the year, he's going to. Get over it.

You know what? Why don't you get over it! I am just asking what most of us are feeling about our QB situation. I know we can't do much about it but is it wrong to ask what most of you think. Instead of telling me to get over it how about you just give a reasonable answer. Get over what, how about you get over the fact that JP isn't the answer?

If you think he is then explain why instead of telling me to get over it. JP has had plenty of time and he has had some games where he was in the spotlight to showcase his abilities and he hasn't. Without Lynch, we needed JP to step up and make some plays. Too bad it was against a team like the Pats but we needed him to show a glimmer of hope with the game on his shoulders and he didn't. It's time to move on. Let's see what we have in TE.

That's my thoughts rather then spouting "get over it".

[jpdex12]

I disagree. I think they'll make him finish this year. They're past pay incentives, TE's already been injured (so they say) and Jauron is gonna want him very healthy for next year when JP is gone. If they had so much confidence in Trent, and so much disgust for JP, why did they miss the trade deadline? It's only fans arguing about this topic, and it's stupid.

Very, very poor reasons for disagreement on your part. Finish the season to see what? How many losses we can pile up and stunt TE's growth? Terrible comment. You are already admitting that JP will be gone next season so that's why we should keep TE healthy? If we traded JP before the deadline then people would have jumped all over Jauron for jumping the gun. We have tested JP more and we know the answer.

Good lord!

[jpdex12]

I'm saying if JP throws more than 1 pick and can't engineer more than 13 offensive points and we lose, we start Edwards.

Is that the answer you were looking for?

I think that you show some logic.

[Wys Guy]

Will you finally call an end to the JP era if we walk away with a loss this weekend against the Jags and he has a sub par game?

What will it take for most of our fans to say it's time for JP to move on?

Just curious.

My question is what's it gonna take for most of our fans to say it's time for Levy and Jauron to move on?

I told ya so w/ Donadope and we ain't goin' anywhere with this wooden-headed tandem either.

They can feel free to take the personnel office with them.

[jamze132]

I disagree. I think they'll make him finish this year. They're past pay incentives, TE's already been injured (so they say) and Jauron is gonna want him very healthy for next year when JP is gone. If they had so much confidence in Trent, and so much disgust for JP, why did they miss the trade deadline? It's only fans arguing about this topic, and it's stupid.
I don't think they have disgust for JP. They want the light to go on in his head and he is running out of chances. They know what they have with Trent and its promising, but if they can get JP going, they can really take their time with Trent.

[Spiderweb]

We already have one on the roster. Who the Bills happen to be 3-1 when he starts. Or are you giving up on him after only 4 games?

So easy to give up on Trent.

Trent is a rookie and at this time of the year, with as little experience he has, is when opposing defenses will really take their shots at him. What I mean by this is just look at what the Jets did in the 2nd game. Once they saw enough, they began to blitz him and he folded rather badly. With JP playing poorly, we have less than an enviable situation yet jumping on the rookie QB's bandwagon at this juncture is more than just premature.

As for the 3-1 record.....two wins and two losses against the Pats Losman was the QB who got us the win against the Jets in the 2nd game, lucky or not. 2-2 for a rookie QB isn't bad so no need to let statistical anomalies obscure reality.

If Edwards can throw deep with reasonable success, I do think he could ultimately be an effective QB in the NFL and for the Bills. Losman, the clock is ticking.....

[Turf]

Everyone knows I'm not a JP fan, but this "haters" "Lickers" thing has to stop. It's so juvenile. Grow up for God sakes and have an intelligent conversation or go play somewhere else. I'm so tired of having to wade through this pablum.

[mybills]

You know what? Why don't you get over it! I am just asking what most of us are feeling about our QB situation. I know we can't do much about it but is it wrong to ask what most of you think. Instead of telling me to get over it how about you just give a reasonable answer. Get over what, how about you get over the fact that JP isn't the answer?

If you think he is then explain why instead of telling me to get over it. JP has had plenty of time and he has had some games where he was in the spotlight to showcase his abilities and he hasn't. Without Lynch, we needed JP to step up and make some plays. Too bad it was against a team like the Pats but we needed him to show a glimmer of hope with the game on his shoulders and he didn't. It's time to move on. Let's see what we have in TE.

That's my thoughts rather then spouting "get over it".
What? :dizzy:

Very, very poor reasons for disagreement on your part. Finish the season to see what? How many losses we can pile up and stunt TE's growth? Terrible comment. You are already admitting that JP will be gone next season so that's why we should keep TE healthy? If we traded JP before the deadline then people would have jumped all over Jauron for jumping the gun. We have tested JP more and we know the answer.

Good lord!

This has been discussed to death. It's like beating a dead horse.
:yap:

If someone wants Trent in there RIGHT NOW because they're sick of JP, then they're just selfish. First you need a decent OL. If you don't have one, he'll get beat up as much as JP. What will that leave us?

[bigmouldsfan]

i read this board and listen to gr and just can't believe all the excuses make for jp. don't get me wrong, i spent a long time trying to see the good and really hoping he was going to progress and become an above average qb but i'm way past that. you know why? not just his on field performance, it's the stupid things he says that make me so convince. throw out the NE game, the whole team/coaches/front office were out classed. even without that he's played one good game (cinci), one good quarter (in relief against the jets) and three terrible ones (denver, pittsburgh, miami). after each game it's excuses, the play calling, the quality of the opponent etc etc. never mind the inaccuracy, the bad decisions, looking hopeless in the pocket. this is after a training camp where he talked about their weapons and all the things they were going to do offensively. do you really believe that if he were a leader capable of taking this team anywhere then this is where we'd be at after all this time?
in the telecast of the NE game the announcers talked about brady and how he prepares. now don't get me wrong, i hate brady too, but the night before the games he calls a meeting of the backs and wrs and goes over all the details of the game plany. that's even when they play a team they know they're going to kill like the bills. then he watches all the bills d's games and studies them one last time. can you even imagine jp doing any of that? i sure can't.
i know he played pretty well in the second half of last year. i know he has a great arm and can be great with the deep ball. i know he's a good guy. i also know that the backs, wrs and line aren't all-world, but they're also not terrible. if jp were going to amount to anything he'd be way past where he is now. i don't want to watch this crap or listen to excuses anymore.
it didn't happen. it's over. just the cord on this guy and just live with it.

[Cntrygal]

Merged for the convenience of *****ing about the qb's.

[Kerr]

There are excuses. It's like rob johnson and drew bledsoe excuses all over again. First it was because of O-line issues and now it's something else. Eventually, the excuses run their course. However, I can't blame jp for everything. He'd had ******ed offensive coordinators who still haven't figued how to how utlize his talent. So as much as jp is to blame, his coordinators should receive more of the blame. His coordinators have tried to make wine out of water with jp. I'm sure if he had a good offensive coach like Mike Shanahan to work with him, he'd be a much better qb than he is now. For the last time, he's not a pure pocket qb. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Mr. Pink]

In every job you're held accountable for your actions/decisions that effect how good production is...except of course if you're the Buffalo Bills QB.

[G Wolly]

Will you finally call an end to the JP era if we walk away with a loss this weekend against the Jags and he has a sub par game?

I won't be surprised if the JP era ends by the 3rd quarter on Sunday.

I'm not making excuses for JP at all. He has no sense of pocket presence and his favorite receiver is Evans.

I'm no expert, but if you're in charge of the offense, shouldn't you use all the receivers equally, and actually hit them accurately?

[PcA125]

This next game is JPs last audition for the job. If he plays decent and we win, he stays behind center. Anything else, its the pine.

I agree, but we have been saying this game after game and nothing has changed.

[Philagape]

So as much as jp is to blame, his coordinators should receive more of the blame.

The blame for what? The lack of offensive production? I agree, to an extent. But the critiques of JP, at least mine, are coming purely from the mistakes he makes, and I believe that more than anything else is to blame. I'm not talking about the team or wins or losses, just his part in them.

When the ball leaves JP's hand and lands on the turf in front of an open receiver or sails over his head, no one else on earth bears any responsibility at all for that throw.

When he's pressured and runs 10 yards backwards and decides to heave the ball off his back foot across his body, no one else on earth bears any responsibility at all for that decision.

When there are defenders surrounding the receiver and JP decides to throw it to that receiver anyway, no one else on earth bears any responsibility at all for that decision.

Whatever circumstances a QB faces: poor receiving corps, bad play calling, poor protection, strong defense ... it is the QB's job to compensate for those circumstances. Once the ball is snapped, the keys to the offense are in the QB's hands alone. At all times, whoever has the ball also has the responsibility for what happens to it next. On every play there are options, and it's the QB's job to know what they are and know which one to execute in a given circumstance.
These decisions must be made sometimes in a fraction of a second, but here's what I hear said a lot about good QBs ... the game slows down for them. They have an instinct ... the "it." They see the field and know which throws to make ... or when not to throw it. Occasionally even the best QBs will be overwhelmed by circumstances, but the good ones know how to make something out of nothing, or at least minimize the damage, even if it means running out of bounds for no gain or throwing it away.
This is what separates the good QBs from the not-so-good QBs more than any other factor. No matter how good the defense is or how limited the rest of the offense is, it is very difficult to defend a QB who makes accurate throws and good decisions. Yes, Fairchild can make this offense look bad with his calls ... but any QB can make coaches look bad by not executing the plays, or not choosing the right option within a play.

[Billz_fan]

Every week same stuff, make or break week for JP, every week he plays poorly. He is not the only one mind you. However the nature of the beast is that the QB position leads the team. When the team plays badly it falls on the QB. When it plays well the credit goes to the QB.

Jp hasnt had it yet, I don't see it in him, he doesn't get it. It may not be fair. But it is the NFL.

Time to move on.

[DynaPaul]

If he doesn't step it up against the 27th ranked pass defense this Sunday I can't see any excuses for him or any reason to keep him as the starter.

[Night Train]

When the Bills give up 56, my first thought is our QB play.

[SquishDaFish]

The bills lose by a score great then 40 all I can think of is this WHOLE TEAM SUCKS and cant hang with the big boys.

[Kerr]

The blame for what? The lack of offensive production? I agree, to an extent. But the critiques of JP, at least mine, are coming purely from the mistakes he makes, and I believe that more than anything else is to blame. I'm not talking about the team or wins or losses, just his part in them.

When the ball leaves JP's hand and lands on the turf in front of an open receiver or sails over his head, no one else on earth bears any responsibility at all for that throw.

When he's pressured and runs 10 yards backwards and decides to heave the ball off his back foot across his body, no one else on earth bears any responsibility at all for that decision.

When there are defenders surrounding the receiver and JP decides to throw it to that receiver anyway, no one else on earth bears any responsibility at all for that decision.

Whatever circumstances a QB faces: poor receiving corps, bad play calling, poor protection, strong defense ... it is the QB's job to compensate for those circumstances. Once the ball is snapped, the keys to the offense are in the QB's hands alone. At all times, whoever has the ball also has the responsibility for what happens to it next. On every play there are options, and it's the QB's job to know what they are and know which one to execute in a given circumstance.
These decisions must be made sometimes in a fraction of a second, but here's what I hear said a lot about good QBs ... the game slows down for them. They have an instinct ... the "it." They see the field and know which throws to make ... or when not to throw it. Occasionally even the best QBs will be overwhelmed by circumstances, but the good ones know how to make something out of nothing, or at least minimize the damage, even if it means running out of bounds for no gain or throwing it away.
This is what separates the good QBs from the not-so-good QBs more than any other factor. No matter how good the defense is or how limited the rest of the offense is, it is very difficult to defend a QB who makes accurate throws and good decisions. Yes, Fairchild can make this offense look bad with his calls ... but any QB can make coaches look bad by not executing the plays, or not choosing the right option within a play.


Did you not read my post? They get blame for not utilizing his talents the way they should. I never said JP shouldn't get blame for anything. He gets blame for making bonehead decisions. However, he's not a pure pocket qb. Don't force him to be one. If it hasn't happened yet, it never will. Good offensive coordinators play to the strengths of their players. Is Vince Young a pure pocket qb? Odds are he never will be. A playmaker who's not a pure pocket qb, but makes plays using his feet inside and outside the pocket. The titans knew what they drafted so they utilize him the best they can.

[colin]

jp losman just isn't good.

i like the point above about brady. in billcheat's book he talked about how drew was a good guy, but would not obsess and put in the extra hours watching film year round to get better. drew was satisfied to use the tools he had, which is why he made the same mistakes on a regular basis.

drew CLEARLY was a more capable and focussed qb than JP. i don't ever see jp go over photos, i remember when they brought in wyche to teach him in year one, he came out absolutely sucking after 2 Tcamps, 2 preseasons, and being annointed the starter. he just didn't get it.

the next year he was up and down but showed some promise (against bad teams) so he was the next year's starter.

this year he stinks again. is being matched by a raw rook, and maked identical mistakes to his first year starting.

he is not fit for the nfl. he does not work hard enough to improve. now maybe he does work hard (although i doubt it) but however hard he does work it clearly isn't enough to make him better.

he'll just never be a good qb. he isn't as good as rex grossman or plenty of other big arm small brain qbs.

i still can't figure out why the coaches want him in over trent, i think there is more to trent's health than meets the eye

[Philagape]

Did you not read my post? They get blame for not utilizing his talents the way they should. I never said JP shouldn't get blame for anything. He gets blame for making bonehead decisions. However, he's not a pure pocket qb. Don't force him to be one. If it hasn't happened yet, it never will. Good offensive coordinators play to the strengths of their players. Is Vince Young a pure pocket qb? Odds are he never will be. A playmaker who's not a pure pocket qb, but makes plays using his feet inside and outside the pocket. The titans knew what they drafted so they utilize him the best they can.

I was mostly agreeing with you. Using his feet is one of the options I was talking about. He's been doing it more lately. But even when he does that, he still has the gunslinger mentality, as if to say "I'll make a spectacular play that'll put this issue to rest," and more often than not it doesn't work or backfires.

[don137]

There are no more excuses for JP. Yes, they gave up 56 points last week and that falls on everybody but JP inability of pocket awareness, his bad throws and his rendition of dancing with the stars everytime he went back to passed help contributing to many 3 and outs thus putting a tired defense out on the field goes under a big reason why they were blown out. I think they would of loss even with Jim Kelly back there last week. The Pats are that good.
The truth is JP is better at being a backup in the NFL then a starter. He has not changed much. He will always dance in the backfield, he will never have great pocket awareness, he will always display a great arm but not great touch. This has never changed for the better. I am not saying Edwards is the answer and I am not saying he is not the answer the only thing that is apparent is JP is not the long term answer.

[Kerr]

I was mostly agreeing with you. Using his feet is one of the options I was talking about. He's been doing it more lately. But even when he does that, he still has the gunslinger mentality, as if to say "I'll make a spectacular play that'll put this issue to rest," and more often than not it doesn't work or backfires.


I've actually found jp to be more accurate when outside of the pocket. I haven't seen to many plays backfire on him when he's on the move. But you're right, in essence, jp's gunsligner mentality is his downfall. He always wants to make the big play instead of taking what defenses give him. This was rj's and bledsoe's problem as well. From time to time they would show flashes they get "Got it", but before you know it, they revert back to their former selves.

[mybills]

Did you not read my post? They get blame for not utilizing his talents the way they should. I never said JP shouldn't get blame for anything. He gets blame for making bonehead decisions. However, he's not a pure pocket qb. Don't force him to be one. If it hasn't happened yet, it never will. Good offensive coordinators play to the strengths of their players. Is Vince Young a pure pocket qb? Odds are he never will be. A playmaker who's not a pure pocket qb, but makes plays using his feet inside and outside the pocket. The titans knew what they drafted so they utilize him the best they can.
100% agree

[Jan Reimers]

Some of the posts in this thread really do a good job of comparing and contrasting Trent and JP. The consistent, poised pocket passer versus the athletic, scrambling gunslinger.

I think most coaching staffs will go for poised and controlled pocket passer every time. Let's hope Trent is closer to Tom Brady than Chad Pennington.

[acehole]

The bills lose by a score great then 40 all I can think of is this WHOLE TEAM SUCKS and cant hang with the big boys.

I dont get it it is obvious to me we dont have enough playmakers
on either side of the ball. How many picks/sack/hurries did we
see? Who do we have on offence that can get separation?
Where is our stud TE all of these great qb's seem to
have? If you want to put this team on JP losmens
back...yes we will fail. Allthough I think he is the
best qb on the roster he isnt good enough to
overcome the teams multiple issues. We
have alot of Monday morning Qb's on
this board who want JP out so they
will only see what they want to see.
This would be a good game for JP
normally. Without a running game
he will have to contend with
multiple DB's and more blitzing..
I hope they can use the draw
and screen and roll out to
counter that. If they just
expect to line up D Wright
and pop him up the gut
and hit evans long it
will be another blow
out.

[Mr. Pink]

See, everyone is so quick to blame the defense, the offensive line, the receivers, etc....

I can tie all of them into JP, and quite neatly.

The defense sucks as bad as it does and gets gashed like it does because our QB can't lead a team to first downs, let alone points. Either we go 1-2-3 punt or he hits a big pass for a TD. Either way the D is coming back on the field within 2 minutes. This would be fine if he could hit more than one big play per game.

The offensive line sucks excuse, for another year...sweet! The front office spent 75ish million on that unit in the offseason. JP has no idea what a pocket is nor can he read a weakside safety/corner blitz. Their is literally no lineman who is accountable on those plays to pick up the blitzer...that's either the back or the QB reading the blitz pre-snap. I'm not sure if there was a Teleprompter on the jumbotron if JP could understand it. You can count on one hand the amount of truly dominating O-lines in football. We're actually in the upper half of the NFL on how good are line is, at least in pass blocking, we're average at run blocking.

WRs, TEs, whatever suck, so that's why JP can't succeed...BS. If JP actually looked at anyone besides Evans then maybe. But what happened to his good chemistry and safety outlet in Josh Reed? Josh Reed gets maybe 3 looks per game, if that.

The only tangible thing you can blame is playcalling...but even that is a toss up. Maybe if JP had any understanding of how to run an NFL offense we would have more than 8 offensive plays to run.

Just a thought on why he doesn't roll out, run, etc. This could possibly have to do with the injury he sustained from Vincent in his rookie year. Could have lingering effects on his ability to run, plant, turn, cut. Notice when JP runs he goes in loops or straight lines? He never cuts or shifts directions. The offense might be set up the way it is to lessen risk of further injuring it or he just doesn't have the same ability that he did in college or JP is just plain scared that he doesn't want to shred his knee - which would be understandable.

[mybills]

The Oline is far from great. That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

[hydro]

The Oline is far from great. That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

With the run they aren't good, pass they have been much better than previous years where they were our downfall.

[Mr. Pink]

With the run they aren't good, pass they have been much better than previous years where they were our downfall.
We're a very good pass blocking line...and an adequate run blocking line...problem with run blocking is our Center gets manhandled on most plays and can't push.

Against the pass, he's fine, because he's supposed to give a yard or two to set up the pocket. Fowler was a decent pass blocker his whole career and complete garbage for the run.

Peters is thought of as a top ten LT in the league for a reason. Dockery is a top guard. Langston Walker hasn't been the turnstile he was in Oakland. Butler is ehh.

Add it up 4 of the 5 guys on the line are good to very good pass blocking wise.

Hence why the o-line excuse is BS.

[mybills]

Gotta do both well, all the time. They are not consistent.

[mybills]

We're a very good pass blocking line...
yeah, half the time.

[Mr. Pink]

yeah, half the time.

You do realize we're 18th in the league on sacks allowed right? At an average of 2.2 per game. Jon Kitna gets sacked 4.2 times per game and he's a journeyman QB who nobody has wanted to keep in his career. The Lion offense is just fine.

Pittburgh gives up 3 sacks per game.

Losman has been sacked 13 times in 7 games...two of those games he barely played Jets and first Pat loss. He's been sacked 13 times in 135 attempts.

Trent has been sacked 9 times in 5 games...or 9 in 121 attempts.

Losman gets sacked once per 10 attempts. Edwards once per 13 attempts.

Looks like the offensive line plays better when there's a QB back there who understands what the pocket is. Weird how that works huh? Average out the sacks for both on 16 games.

Trent - 28
Losman - 40

Looks like Losman has a lot to do with the pass blocking doing worse once it's put into perspective, doesn't it? I guess this also proves that JP makes the offensive line worse because, well he does.

[HHURRICANE]

Don't blame the O-line. They have been awesome in pass protection. At some point you have to get rid of the ball.

JP is the issue. It was evident when Trent came in and all of a sudden the pass protection was more than adequate. Trent knows how to move in the pocket and find people underneath.

It's obvious that JP is scared to throw underneath. When we were kids the bomb was always the easier ball to throw. Throwing underneath is a lot harder.

[mybills]

I blame them all.

[Billz_fan]

Im sure Im not the only one who knows this right ?

You can have a bad team, you can have a bad O'line, you can have bad recievers, running backs and even a bad D.

But....

When you get a guy that can play QB it shows through, you can just see it. It makes you giggle almost and say, omg this kid has it, we got ourselves a QB. The guy can make mistakes and screw up but you can just tell he has it. That he is a leader and has the skill to play the position. He shows this by making more good plays than bad with what he has to work with.

Can someone honestly tell me they see any of this in JP ? And for the record im not sold on Trent but he hasnt had much play time to evaluate him properly. I do think Trent however in his short time has shown the ability to make good judgements when things go to crap. He see's more of the field.

[mybills]

Can someone honestly tell me they see any of this in JP ?
Nobody can. That's what makes these ***** threads stupid. Everyone has to start one but they all say the same thing. I'm pretty sure everyone on the boards knows JP's not the answer. But let's start 5,000 more threads about it.

[HHURRICANE]

Im sure Im not the only one who knows this right ?

You can have a bad team, you can have a bad O'line, you can have bad recievers, running backs and even a bad D.

But....

When you get a guy that can play QB it shows through, you can just see it. It makes you giggle almost and say, omg this kid has it, we got ourselves a QB. The guy can make mistakes and screw up but you can just tell he has it. That he is a leader and has the skill to play the position. He shows this by making more good plays than bad with what he has to work with.

Can someone honestly tell me they see any of this in JP ? And for the record im not sold on Trent but he hasnt had much play time to evaluate him properly. I do think Trent however in his short time has shown the ability to make good judgements when things go to crap. He see's more of the field.

I'll take it a step further.

Trent may or may not be the answer. However, when I watch him play he's poised, guys are all of a sudden open, and the pass rush is suddenly neautralized.

Trent didn't prove to me that he is the answer. He just proved to me that JP isn't.

This is when I decided that I was done with JP. There is no going back for me. He had his shot. Time to move on.

[don137]

I'll take it a step further.

Trent may or may not be the answer. However, when I watch him play he's poised, guys are all of a sudden open, and the pass rush is suddenly neautralized.

Trent didn't prove to me that he is the answer. He just proved to me that JP isn't.

This is when I decided that I was done with JP. There is no going back for me. He had his shot. Time to move on.

Agreed. I am not sure if Trent does not have the confidence yet, the arm strength or the coaching to not go deep. If he can get all three he will become the long term answer but until then he is just another in a line of QBs since Kelly that have not got the job done however I do feel he has a ton more upside than JP.

JP has not and will not get much better than he is now. For every play JP makes you jump up and scream in delight he will have 3 or 4 plays that make you drop your head in disbelief and dispair.

[acehole]

I will take this a step further....
JP shows a lot of promise and playmaking ability.
JP shows inconsistancy, makes enough bad playes to
go with the good plays. I understand some will try and
blame JP for an underpreforming D. But if you look at the
pats game Pats were able to score on ther first and second drives.
Was our defense tired in the first quarter? Did JP make wright throw
the ball in the air? No absurd. Judging JP on the NE game is as silly as judging
him on the Cincy game. He has become good enough to win when the team around him is doing thier job....and not good enough to overcome a loss when the team is playing poorly. It is that simple. Time of poss. is very important..when you are ahead yes..... Time of poss. without points a waste of time. Is is NOT the defenses fault and lack of weapons or scheme or offensive line that is to blame for JP poor play..but it does contribute to the qb's success and or failings in over all wins and loses. In a game of inches and paridy everybody needs play to thier potential to win a ball games..not just the qb. I will give you a small example...Jp first drive in Denver it was perfect and we were threatening to score....Lynch assignment was to pick up blitzers he missed his block and that turned into a 3 and 24 out of fieldgoal range. We make that field goal we may have won that game by my math. Another example was 3 and 1 when we are running the ball at will and fairchild gets cute and call a bomb...if we ran Lynch and get the first down we can try that crap on the following first down instead of punting. So excuses? I suppose..but to turn a blind eye to all else is a little dishonest.

JP will be a ghost sure enough so all this talk is probably wasted...but you people better remember all you are saying (NO EXCUSES) when Edwards and the next 6 qb's get run out of town. The bar has now been set (By you). We shall all see how this plays out. When MJD has 250 yards rushing you will all piont to JP I am sure. That is as silly as saying the Jags QB is so great A Thomas only has 36 yard on the day.



See, everyone is so quick to blame the defense, the offensive line, the receivers, etc....

I can tie all of them into JP, and quite neatly.

The defense sucks as bad as it does and gets gashed like it does because our QB can't lead a team to first downs, let alone points. Either we go 1-2-3 punt or he hits a big pass for a TD. Either way the D is coming back on the field within 2 minutes. This would be fine if he could hit more than one big play per game.

The offensive line sucks excuse, for another year...sweet! The front office spent 75ish million on that unit in the offseason. JP has no idea what a pocket is nor can he read a weakside safety/corner blitz. Their is literally no lineman who is accountable on those plays to pick up the blitzer...that's either the back or the QB reading the blitz pre-snap. I'm not sure if there was a Teleprompter on the jumbotron if JP could understand it. You can count on one hand the amount of truly dominating O-lines in football. We're actually in the upper half of the NFL on how good are line is, at least in pass blocking, we're average at run blocking.

WRs, TEs, whatever suck, so that's why JP can't succeed...BS. If JP actually looked at anyone besides Evans then maybe. But what happened to his good chemistry and safety outlet in Josh Reed? Josh Reed gets maybe 3 looks per game, if that.

The only tangible thing you can blame is playcalling...but even that is a toss up. Maybe if JP had any understanding of how to run an NFL offense we would have more than 8 offensive plays to run.

Just a thought on why he doesn't roll out, run, etc. This could possibly have to do with the injury he sustained from Vincent in his rookie year. Could have lingering effects on his ability to run, plant, turn, cut. Notice when JP runs he goes in loops or straight lines? He never cuts or shifts directions. The offense might be set up the way it is to lessen risk of further injuring it or he just doesn't have the same ability that he did in college or JP is just plain scared that he doesn't want to shred his knee - which would be understandable.

[mikemac2001]

I love that everyone gives JP credit for saving the jets game even though it was tied game in the forth quarter :rolleyes:


i love how they give JP credit for the first ne loss

Thats all i was stating though its pointless now...Jp is done in buffalo

[Typ0]

i love how they give JP credit for the first ne loss

Thats all i was stating though its pointless now...Jp is done in buffalo

show me somewhere it says JP was responsible for that loss? He wasn't even on the field how can his piss poor play have any resposibility in the loss? The point was that you can't use that game as a measuring stick for TE because he did not prepare with the first team offense.

[colin]

ace, kerr, mybills,

go back over your posts here. i understand you had a lot of hope for this guy, but he has ALWAYS MADE THE SAME MISTAKES OVER AND OVER. you've missed it and should have tried to listen to the points made by other posters.

i just hope you are real fans and pull for trent instead of hating him because your boy sucks

[mikemac2001]

show me somewhere it says JP was responsible for that loss? He wasn't even on the field how can his piss poor play have any resposibility in the loss? The point was that you can't use that game as a measuring stick for TE because he did not prepare with the first team offense.

I was just pointing out the facts that Tacklingdummy would give JP a loss for that game but give TE a win for the jets game. i was just trying to post how he uses stats and manipulates them

I was never saying it was JP fault or TE sucks bc he didnt win

just sick of him using stats and manipulating them to look better for his guy

like i have said tho JP is gone so lets move on

[Kerr]

ace, kerr, mybills,

go back over your posts here. i understand you had a lot of hope for this guy, but he has ALWAYS MADE THE SAME MISTAKES OVER AND OVER. you've missed it and should have tried to listen to the points made by other posters.

i just hope you are real fans and pull for trent instead of hating him because your boy sucks


I am a real fan. I support the current qb. Jp is not and was never my boy. I just realize he was misused and forced to become the type of qb he's not.