For those of you that need to place blame...

[BlackMetalNinja]

Sure, JP deserves some, those turnovers were back breakers... but don't neglect the rest of the team.

How about the defense that couldn't stop a 3rd and long all day long?

Or what about the special teams that couldn't return anything for more than 15 yards, or who committed some extremely stupid and costly penalties?

Or the coaching staff with some of the same old predictable play calling over and over?

This was a total team effort in terms of not getting the job done, no one person should be getting all the blame this time.

We got beat by the better team and yet again hung in there for most of the game despite our best efforts to play like crap.

I have to say, I love the effort and the ability to play over their heads for some of our young guys that have come out of virtually no where this year, but we still desperately need some good veteran leaders in some key positions (QB first and foremost, I don't believe Edwards is our answer there either), as well as some coaches that have some guts to change things up once in a while.

[patmoran2006]

Sure, JP deserves some, those turnovers were back breakers... but don't neglect the rest of the team.

How about the defense that couldn't stop a 3rd and long all day long?

Or what about the special teams that couldn't return anything for more than 15 yards, or who committed some extremely stupid and costly penalties?

Or the coaching staff with some of the same old predictable play calling over and over?

This was a total team effort in terms of not getting the job done, no one person should be getting all the blame this time.

We got beat by the better team and yet again hung in there for most of the game despite our best efforts to play like crap.

I have to say, I love the effort and the ability to play over their heads for some of our young guys that have come out of virtually no where this year, but we still desperately need some good veteran leaders in some key positions (QB first and foremost, I don't believe Edwards is our answer there either), as well as some coaches that have some guts to change things up once in a while.
Good post.

JP blows and I'm near positive he's FINISHED as a starter, but there is PLENTY of wrong with this team besides him.

[Michael82]

Sure, JP deserves some, those turnovers were back breakers... but don't neglect the rest of the team.

How about the defense that couldn't stop a 3rd and long all day long?

Or what about the special teams that couldn't return anything for more than 15 yards, or who committed some extremely stupid and costly penalties?

Or the coaching staff with some of the same old predictable play calling over and over?

This was a total team effort in terms of not getting the job done, no one person should be getting all the blame this time.

We got beat by the better team and yet again hung in there for most of the game despite our best efforts to play like crap.

I have to say, I love the effort and the ability to play over their heads for some of our young guys that have come out of virtually no where this year, but we still desperately need some good veteran leaders in some key positions (QB first and foremost, I don't believe Edwards is our answer there either), as well as some coaches that have some guts to change things up once in a while.
Excellent post!!! :bf1:

[BlackMetalNinja]

Thanks guys, but this will get buried in the JPHATEFEST 07 that will take place this week. Everybody wants the easy scapegoat.

[Philagape]

I've calculated that JP deserves 62.7801 percent of the blame.


Better than his passer rating in it.

[Don't Panic]

I've calculated that JP deserves 62.7801 percent of the blame.


Better than his passer rating in it.

Definitely more than 50%. Great points about the D and special teams though.

[patmoran2006]

Thanks guys, but this will get buried in the JPHATEFEST 07 that will take place this week. Everybody wants the easy scapegoat.
He's no scapegoat. He had three turnovers, all TERRIBLE turnovers, and he missed open WR's all day long.

He DESERVES the bashing; what you're right about is that plenty of other players sucked as well today.

[CLo_in_Roch]

JP deserves a great measure of the blame... because...

he is the offensive leader, his decisions direct affect the team. Turning over a ball to a home team, "in the hunt" team, a good rushing team -- that churns out yards, keeps your guys on defense gasping for air -- absolutely deflates morale...

plus that fact a difference maker like Lynch is out, more responsiblility was put on JP's shoulders -- and it turns out that not only can he press that weight, he drops the bar. Very disappointing coming from a guy with a "C" on his chest.....

Lead or be lead.

[OpIv37]

JP deserves blame, as does the D, the OL, Reed, Evans, etc.... there is plenty to go around.

However, JP is in a unique position as far as evaluation is concerned. We're trying to evaluate him as our future QB. So of course his mistakes are going to be discussed ad nauseum- it doesn't mean we're letting the rest of the team off the hook.

[Philagape]

it doesn't mean we're letting the rest of the team off the hook.

Thank you.

[HHURRICANE]

This was a winnable game. JP cost us the game. Yeah special teams were horrible and the D can always play better but the game was winnable.

I am convinced that had Trent started we could have won this game.

[Philagape]

This was a winnable game. JP cost us the game. Yeah special teams were horrible and the D can always play better but the game was winnable.

I am convinced that had Trent started we could have won this game.

Coaches say a lot that nothing decides games like turnovers.

Trent hasn't had a multiple-turnover game yet.

[SquishDaFish]

We wouldnt of won with Edwards either. JP blows yes but Edwards isnt a damn savior

[justasportsfan]

Coaches say a lot that nothing decides games like turnovers.

Trent hasn't had a multiple-turnover game yet. thats like saying his crap stinks less.

don't try and justify his INT's and make it look they weren't so bad because they weren't mutiple times in a game . Most of them were thrown when the game is on the line. I'd rather still have Flutie over Robosack. Flutie had multiple ints in a game but during crunch time, you know you still had a chance.

[Michael82]

We wouldnt of won with Edwards either. JP blows yes but Edwards isnt a damn savior
EXACTLY!

[mybills]

This was a winnable game. JP cost us the game. Yeah special teams were horrible and the D can always play better but the game was winnable.

I am convinced that had Trent started we could have won this game.
:coocoo: My sig is wrong...FACE IT!

[Philagape]

thats like saying his crap stinks less.
don't try and justify his INT's and make it look they weren't so bad because they weren't mutiple times in a game . Most of them were thrown when the game is on the line.

Two of them. Two out of five is not most.

If we had just one TO in this game, we have a good chance to win. It's the multiple turnovers that cost it.

So yes, Trent's crap stinks less. We should have taken the chance. JP had zero, just like I said last week, because when a guy is in his third year playing and still looks like a rookie, then you know what you have in him. At least the actual rookie has a chance to get better. Unknown is better than zero.

[mybills]

Sure, JP deserves some, those turnovers were back breakers... but don't neglect the rest of the team.

How about the defense that couldn't stop a 3rd and long all day long?

Or what about the special teams that couldn't return anything for more than 15 yards, or who committed some extremely stupid and costly penalties?

Or the coaching staff with some of the same old predictable play calling over and over?

This was a total team effort in terms of not getting the job done, no one person should be getting all the blame this time.

We got beat by the better team and yet again hung in there for most of the game despite our best efforts to play like crap.

I have to say, I love the effort and the ability to play over their heads for some of our young guys that have come out of virtually no where this year, but we still desperately need some good veteran leaders in some key positions (QB first and foremost, I don't believe Edwards is our answer there either), as well as some coaches that have some guts to change things up once in a while.

:10:

[The King]

the oline looked like a different unit today.

[shelby]

i don't understand how some of you can insist that if Edwards had played at QB, we wouldn't have lost the game.

i agree wholeheartedly with BMN and Pat. Losman is to blame for this loss. He was awful today, in every aspect, and made very costly turnovers. But, to some degree, every player who stepped foot on the field today is also to blame for the loss.
You can't rationally blame it all on JP.

[BlackMetalNinja]

I'm by no means letting JP off the hook either, though it seems some of you have interpreted it that way in your haste to make this, like everything else a matter of JP lover vs. hater.

JP played like crap for the most part again today, and I've finally thrown in the towel and have decided that his chances are over with now. He just is not going to fit into our system with his style of play and he won't succeed here.

But as I also said, I don't think Trent Edwards is our answer either, at least nothing that I've seen of him so far leads me to think so. Granted I know we haven't seen much of him at all at this point, but the problem lies in the fact that we have to groom him into want we want him to be, which means multiple years of struggling yet again.

The only way I see an immediate turnaround being possible for this team, in terms of us getting over the hump and being able to win some of these big important games and become a playoff team is to have a solid, established veteran leader at the QB spot, and well, that just isn't very likely at this point.

As I mentioned in my initial post, we've had some young, relatively unknown guys do some very special things for us this year that I don't think anybody really expected, but we need a few proven leaders to shape that into a good team. I hope to hell that happens in the off season, but I won't hold my breath waiting either.

[shelby]

That sums it up perfectly BMN.

[HHURRICANE]

i don't understand how some of you can insist that if Edwards had played at QB, we wouldn't have lost the game.

i agree wholeheartedly with BMN and Pat. Losman is to blame for this loss. He was awful today, in every aspect, and made very costly turnovers. But, to some degree, every player who stepped foot on the field today is also to blame for the loss.
You can't rationally blame it all on JP.

The D that Jacksonville presented wasn't overwhelming today. Guys were wide open. WIDE OPEN. JP had three horrible turnovers.

Hell, Gannon even blamed the loss on Losman and said you can't have this kind of inconsistancy at QB.

I've seen enough of Trent to know that we might have expected a different outcome.

[G. Host]

How about the defense that couldn't stop a 3rd and long all day long?.

Surely you exagerate since they stopped them on third and fourth down/
Exageration is a way to try to support weak arguments.

[YardRat]

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm extremely disappointed in the ST's the last few games...Maybe even all year. They've made several bone-headed plays and you just don't expect that from this unit.

Also, our pass defense just flat-out sucks. The Jax receivers made some damn nice catches today at times, but hell they've got to stop somebody on third down. I'd rather see an opposing team in third and short, not long, because the run D has stepped it up a helluva better in critical situations than the pass D has.

[Marvelous]

I've seen enough of Trent to know that we might have expected a different outcome.
Agreed.. There's no way the Ralph can afford to groom another youngster. What Vets would be a good fit here? Another problem is so many teams are also having medicore QBing.. I suppose some of them will also be in the market..bah!

[shelby]

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm extremely disappointed in the ST's the last few games...Maybe even all year. They've made several bone-headed plays and you just don't expect that from this unit.


i noticed that as well...the past few weeks the ST unit has been off. i'm not sure why.
And how boneheaded to have 12 men on the field...:crap:

HH, i understand what you're saying, and i agree about Losman. My point is that TE is a rookie and, though he has a lot of strengths that Losman lacks, it's not enough to guarantee that he would have won the game for us today.

[HHURRICANE]

HH, i understand what you're saying, and i agree about Losman. My point is that TE is a rookie and, though he has a lot of strengths that Losman lacks, it's not enough to guarantee that he would have won the game for us today.

The difference between JP starting and Trent starting is there is no way I could have been so confident to guarantee a loss with Trent under center.

It's sad that I can go on this board and offer up all of my zonebux and reputation guaranteeing that JP can't win us a game in Jacksonville. It's crazy that I could be that confident. And Jacksonville wasn't that impressive at all today.

It just says how bad this guy is. Trent, in my mind, gave us a better shot today.

[HHURRICANE]

PS. Special teams have been horrible and without a pass rush it doesn't matter who's in the secondary.

[Owen DeBoard]

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm extremely disappointed in the ST's the last few games...Maybe even all year. They've made several bone-headed plays and you just don't expect that from this unit.

Also, our pass defense just flat-out sucks. The Jax receivers made some damn nice catches today at times, but hell they've got to stop somebody on third down. I'd rather see an opposing team in third and short, not long, because the run D has stepped it up a helluva better in critical situations than the pass D has.
I agree about them being disappointing but you also have to give them credit for them having the only turnover for the day with the fumble recovery. They also didnt give up any points so it could have been worse. Now the defense has been downright horrible. When was the last time they forced a turnover? If they could pressure the qb then we might get some turnovers but the coaches dont like to blitz.

[BlackMetalNinja]

Surely you exagerate since they stopped them on third and fourth down/
Exageration is a way to try to support weak arguments.
I did say 3rd and long, not 3rd and 4th down...

I'd call it a slight exageration, 3rd and long results for Jax:

3-14-BUF 31 (13:39) (Shotgun) 9-D.Garrard pass short middle to 89-M.Lewis to BUF 17 for 14 yards (42-J.Leonhard).

3-10-JAC 20 (14:11) (Shotgun) 9-D.Garrard pass deep right to 19-E.Wilford pushed ob at JAC 40 for 20 yards (37-G.Wilson).

3-12-BUF 36 (10:28) (Shotgun) 9-D.Garrard pass deep right to 86-D.Northcutt to BUF 12 for 24 yards (42-J.Leonhard).

3-10-JAC 45 (1:14) (Shotgun) 9-D.Garrard pass deep left to 19-E.Wilford to BUF 34 for 21 yards (42-J.Leonhard).

3-10-JAC 27 (7:02) (Shotgun) 9-D.Garrard pass incomplete short left to 19-E.Wilford.

3-7-JAC 41 (2:49) 9-D.Garrard pass short middle to 11-R.Williams for 59 yards, TOUCHDOWN.



5/6 on plays when needing more than 5 yards for a 1st Down on 3rd Down

All 5 of which occurred on drives that lead to Jacksonville scores...

How weak is my argument again???

[acehole]

JP is not a good enough qb
to overcome the overall lack
of talent and preformance and
coaching and game planning this
team currently has. He is streaky
at best and has taken this team in
it current state as far as it is going to
No mater who the qb is this team has multiple
issues a 3rd round QB will not be able to solve on
his own. Areas that need improvement are Pass rush,
stop the run, a play book that would allow us not to run
right on first down left on second down and pass on 3rd and
8, Play action, misdirection. They open up the playbook when we
are behind and go conservative ball control when begin instead of the other way around. They (jags) did on deffense what they were supose to...double
Lee Evans and force us to run. Without Lee Evans and M Lynch we were asking JP to win us that game on offence and he is just not go enough to do that on his own. I like gains and I think he may develope to be that TE we need. A Legit # 2 WR and possibly a LG...and I hope fairchild takes that coaching job...I might be willing to give Juron another chance with a new offensive coordinater..he has got this team effort wise to play beyond thier means...but that isnt saying much. We can do this in one offseason if they choose..but they probable wont. As far as JP goes dont be suprissed if they leave him in and this is for multiple reasons. 1.If they put him in they will not be putting yong qb into the best situation to excell.2 It will expose all of the above 3. It will reduce JP trade value as he and the offence might show up in later games. IF they cant trade him dont be surprised if he is asked to compete next year for the starting job..which if he loses will be a back up. One can only hope they can fix things enough to be a legit contender...right now we are a long way off QB position not withstanding.


I'm by no means letting JP off the hook either, though it seems some of you have interpreted it that way in your haste to make this, like everything else a matter of JP lover vs. hater.

JP played like crap for the most part again today, and I've finally thrown in the towel and have decided that his chances are over with now. He just is not going to fit into our system with his style of play and he won't succeed here.

But as I also said, I don't think Trent Edwards is our answer either, at least nothing that I've seen of him so far leads me to think so. Granted I know we haven't seen much of him at all at this point, but the problem lies in the fact that we have to groom him into want we want him to be, which means multiple years of struggling yet again.

The only way I see an immediate turnaround being possible for this team, in terms of us getting over the hump and being able to win some of these big important games and become a playoff team is to have a solid, established veteran leader at the QB spot, and well, that just isn't very likely at this point.

As I mentioned in my initial post, we've had some young, relatively unknown guys do some very special things for us this year that I don't think anybody really expected, but we need a few proven leaders to shape that into a good team. I hope to hell that happens in the off season, but I won't hold my breath waiting either.

[mybills]

We're trying to evaluate him as our future QB.
We are? I thought it was just about finishing out this year. No way do I want him back next year.

[OpIv37]

We are? I thought it was just about finishing out this year. No way do I want him back next year.

well there ya go- you just evaluated him.

JP was playing for his job so we are going to pick apart everything he does. That's all I'm trying to say.

[mybills]

When you said "future" you scared me. :D

[scott51]

Sure, JP deserves some, those turnovers were back breakers... but don't neglect the rest of the team.

How about the defense that couldn't stop a 3rd and long all day long?

Or what about the special teams that couldn't return anything for more than 15 yards, or who committed some extremely stupid and costly penalties?

Or the coaching staff with some of the same old predictable play calling over and over?

This was a total team effort in terms of not getting the job done, no one person should be getting all the blame this time.

We got beat by the better team and yet again hung in there for most of the game despite our best efforts to play like crap.

I have to say, I love the effort and the ability to play over their heads for some of our young guys that have come out of virtually no where this year, but we still desperately need some good veteran leaders in some key positions (QB first and foremost, I don't believe Edwards is our answer there either), as well as some coaches that have some guts to change things up once in a while.

JP deserves MOST of the blame for this team performing the way they do. They all have to try and compensate and do more because we have a QB who couldn't find his way out of a wet paper sack

[BlackMetalNinja]

JP deserves MOST of the blame for this team performing the way they do. They all have to try and compensate and do more because we have a QB who couldn't find his way out of a wet paper sack

:rolleyes:

Yup, JP should have been onsides during that kick off... JP should have gotten off the field so there weren't 12 men during that punt... JP should have stopped Garrard from completing multiple 3rd and longs...

Yes he's to blame, but he's not the ONLY one. Don't give the rest of this team a free pass just because there is one easy target.