Can we lay off of Jauron and Levy for a moment?

[HHURRICANE]

Guys, I don't know how to break this to you but this isn't a very good football team.

You guys crticize Marv and Jauron like they inherited the Chargers or the Patriots. Our roster SUCKS!!!!

If you want to place blame start with that arrogant piece of crap Tom Donohoe. McGahee, Bledsoe, Losman, Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, Williams (both of them), Mularkey, and all of the other losers that aren't on our roster anymore.

This team is not even 2 years removed from TD and you guys act like we should be in playoff contention. We have George Wilson on the field for god's sake. Michael Gaines wasn't even on a roster and he's probably got more catches than Royal. Fred Jackson was in NFL Europe.

Sorry, this isn't "Invincible" or "Rudy" where the good guy prevails. We have **** for a roster and the guys that will impact this team are the ones that we are drafting.

Give it a rest.

[Philagape]

The Donahoe era is like five years that are just plain missing in the history of the franchise. It's like Cleveland: it's as if the Bills left for a few years, and now we have an expansion team.

[OpIv37]

wow, where to start with this one:

Marv re-signed Kelsay and Schobel. He brought in Price, Tripplett, Fowler, Royal etc. It was his decision to keep guys like Stamer and Haggan who can't play LB so we hada guys for ST, which blew the game yesterday. Is Marv going to make the team into a contender overnight? Of course not. But in two years, what position has been clearly upgraded? RB and.... RB. Nice.

As far as Jauron, this team still doesn't come through in big games. The OL still can't run block. The play calling on offense is still way too conservative. The D still refuses to play bump and run when the clean release is allowing WR's to run free through our zones. The team still wastes at least 1 timeout early in the half. And let's not forget that coaching cost us the Denver game and the Dallas game.

No doubt we lack talent, but Marv's at least partially responsible for that and Jauron continues to make the same mistakes. The guy's a moron.

[trapezeus]

he has two fairly reliable drafts so far. no duds with first round picks. i know there is heat growing on whitner, but the guy is playing LB and Safety without an experienced partner. McCargo is coming into his own. Lynch is solid. Poz looked good early.

Butler is coming along. Edwards was said to be a steal in the draft prior to the Bills picking him. So he's got potential. this year's draft could be the shore up the offense, and get some depth for D.

I'm not willing to bail on Levy in year 2. if next year there isn't any sign of improvements, then the heat can be turned up on the FO.

[OpIv37]

I don't think it would be in the franchise's best interest to bail on Levy already- all I'm saying is that we should blame him for some of this mess instead of using the Donahoe excuse. There are only a handful of guys left from the Donahoe era that Levy didn't actively re-sign.

[justasportsfan]

BB would've gotten us to the playoffs with TD's players. So shut it with all the excuses.

[HHURRICANE]

wow, where to start with this one:

Marv re-signed Kelsay and Schobel. He brought in Price, Tripplett, Fowler, Royal etc. It was his decision to keep guys like Stamer and Haggan who can't play LB so we hada guys for ST, which blew the game yesterday. Is Marv going to make the team into a contender overnight? Of course not. But in two years, what position has been clearly upgraded? RB and.... RB. Nice.

As far as Jauron, this team still doesn't come through in big games. The OL still can't run block. The play calling on offense is still way too conservative. The D still refuses to play bump and run when the clean release is allowing WR's to run free through our zones. The team still wastes at least 1 timeout early in the half. And let's not forget that coaching cost us the Denver game and the Dallas game.

No doubt we lack talent, but Marv's at least partially responsible for that and Jauron continues to make the same mistakes. The guy's a moron.

Here's the problem with your argument:

1) Who was out there to replace Kelsay? He would have been one of the better DE's available as it was. We didn't have a choice.

2) I hate the Schobel renogtiation but when you lose Fletcher, Spikes, McGahee, and Clements at the same time you need to not make it look like it's not a fire sale. They guy went to a pro bowl and is one of the mainstays on the team. He sucks but I understand the move.

3) Royal was brought in to help block before we had Dockery, Peters (as a starter), Butler, or Walker.

4) With all the names you have up there were we going to sign 26 free agents?

5) Your worried about "bump and run" with Wilson, Greer, Leonard, Ellision, DiGorgio, and Wire all on the field at the same time. Scary.

We have a roster that needs more talent. Thank god Marv has drafted as well as he has.

And for all of the Whitner crticism lets remember that he replaced a horrible Lawyer Milloy. Whitner plys one of the most thankless positions in all of football.

[OpIv37]

Here's the problem with your argument:

1) Who was out there to replace Kelsay? He would have been one of the better DE's available as it was. We didn't have a choice.

2) I hate the Schobel renogtiation but when you lose Fletcher, Spikes, McGahee, and Clements at the same time you need to not make it look like it's not a fire sale. They guy went to a pro bowl and is one of the mainstays on the team. He sucks but I understand the move.

3) Royal was brought in to help block before we had Dockery, Peters (as a starter), Butler, or Walker.

4) With all the names you have up there were we going to sign 26 free agents?

5) Your worried about "bump and run" with Wilson, Greer, Leonard, Ellision, DiGorgio, and Wire all on the field at the same time. Scary.

We have a roster that needs more talent. Thank god Marv has drafted as well as he has.

And for all of the Whitner crticism lets remember that he replaced a horrible Lawyer Milloy. Whitner plys one of the most thankless positions in all of football.

1) Denney and Hargrove- we don't need Kelsay.
2) We probably do need Schobel but it's gonna come back to bite us in the ass.
3) Royal sucks at blocking too. We lost to Indy last year cuz he gave up a sack.
4) 26- no. All I'm saying is that Marv made this team, either by bringing in his own guys or by re-signing TD's guys. Once he makes the decision, the success or failure is on him and NOT TD.
5) If something doesn't work, change it. Maybe the new strategy won't work either, but doing the same thing and expecting different results is pretty much the definition of insanity (or at least stupidity). They should have hit NE's receivers and tried to slow them down. They probably would have kicked our asses anyway but at least it would have been a better effort.

And I'm really ****ing sick of the excuses for Whitner. "Milloy sucked more" is no justification for Whitner's sub-par play.

[HHURRICANE]

1) Denney and Hargrove- we don't need Kelsay.
2) We probably do need Schobel but it's gonna come back to bite us in the ass.
3) Royal sucks at blocking too. We lost to Indy last year cuz he gave up a sack.
4) 26- no. All I'm saying is that Marv made this team, either by bringing in his own guys or by re-signing TD's guys. Once he makes the decision, the success or failure is on him and NOT TD.
5) If something doesn't work, change it. Maybe the new strategy won't work either, but doing the same thing and expecting different results is pretty much the definition of insanity (or at least stupidity). They should have hit NE's receivers and tried to slow them down. They probably would have kicked our asses anyway but at least it would have been a better effort.

And I'm really ****ing sick of the excuses for Whitner. "Milloy sucked more" is no justification for Whitner's sub-par play.

Your asking for a 5 year rebuild in 2 years. That doesn't work. Clements has worked out really well in San Fran and they have alot more talent on D than we do.

We were decimated with injuries this year. If we had gone with Denney and Hargrove we would have been screwed considering Hargrove served a 4 game suspension and Denney broke his foot. News Flash, Denney and Hargrove aren't all that great either.

I like you OP but your post looks more like you are wishing for better results than actually coming up with anything concrete on why Marv sucks.

[justasportsfan]

Here's the problem with your argument:

1) Who was out there to replace Kelsay? He would have been one of the better DE's available as it was. We didn't have a choice.

2) I hate the Schobel renogtiation but when you lose Fletcher, Spikes, McGahee, and Clements at the same time you need to not make it look like it's not a fire sale. They guy went to a pro bowl and is one of the mainstays on the team. He sucks but I understand the move.

3) Royal was brought in to help block before we had Dockery, Peters (as a starter), Butler, or Walker.

4) With all the names you have up there were we going to sign 26 free agents?

5) Your worried about "bump and run" with Wilson, Greer, Leonard, Ellision, DiGorgio, and Wire all on the field at the same time. Scary.

We have a roster that needs more talent. Thank god Marv has drafted as well as he has.

And for all of the Whitner crticism lets remember that he replaced a horrible Lawyer Milloy. Whitner plys one of the most thankless positions in all of football.

BS. BB would've taken us to the playoffs with the talent we have. Who the hell in their right mind rushes Brady with 2 DL? That was genius and we ended up being beaten by the largest amount in franchise history? Was that a case of trying to outsmart BB?

[HHURRICANE]

BB would've gotten us to the playoffs with TD's players. So shut it with all the excuses.

I forgot about all of those Superbowl wins in Cleveland.

[bigbub2352]

I hate to say it but the biggest problem with this franchise, is the fact that they are CHEAP, and that goes for finding good coaches, and paying top dollar for proven HC, we shop at the dollar store usually for Cordinators, and HC's, that is one of the real big problems, Also allowing TD to have free rane over this team and taking 5yrs to see how bad it was going, in my opinion it is Ralph, not the personnel, get a proven HC in here, (not with a losing record) and let him pick his assistants, not guyz like Fairchild, who we fired then promoted, and get serious about FA signing, not always looking for the diamond in the ruff, but drafting and then keepin some of those players when they hit there prime ala Winfeild or Clements for example

[OpIv37]

Your asking for a 5 year rebuild in 2 years. That doesn't work. Clements has worked out really well in San Fran and they have alot more talent on D than we do.

We were decimated with injuries this year. If we had gone with Denney and Hargrove we would have been screwed considering Hargrove served a 4 game suspension and Denney broke his foot. News Flash, Denney and Hargrove aren't all that great either.

I like you OP but your post looks more like you are wishing for better results than actually coming up with anything concrete on why Marv sucks.

Sorry but the injury excuse on Kelsay is just lame- when Marv re-signed Kelsay back in spring, he had no way of knowing that both Denney and Hargrove would be unavailable at the start of this year.

Marv is paying a ton of money for a very unproductive DL in Schobel, Kelsay and Tripplett. Marv brought in Royal- he sucks. Marv brought in Reyes and Davis- they both got cut and weren't even here two years. Price did nothing and now his career in Buffalo is likely over. Fowler sucks. A-Train was decent last year but sucks this year. We don't even have a FB- we just use mediocre TE's as mediocre H backs. Marv's drafts have been decent but his FA classes and re-signings have been nothing short of terrible.

I apologize for expecting results. I guess I should just sit back and accept the fact that we're East Detroit.

[TacklingDummy]

It's Donahoe's fault.

It's Levy fault for given Kelsay, Schobel, Walker, Price, all that money.

It's going to take a good 5 years of drafting to get away from what TD did to this team.

[justasportsfan]

I forgot about all of those Superbowl wins in Cleveland.

Looks like he learned his mistakes from Cleveland and built a dynasty. What did Dick learn from Chicago? Dicks team is in trouble again. His OC was questionable at chicago and our O ranks at the bottom of the league now. Who should be held accountable, Donahoe? Thats stupid.

Dick gets a pass on D because of all the injuries but the O has been the most healthy part of this team and yet we're not even good at any aspect of the offense.

[HHURRICANE]

Sorry but the injury excuse on Kelsay is just lame- when Marv re-signed Kelsay back in spring, he had no way of knowing that both Denney and Hargrove would be unavailable at the start of this year.

Marv is paying a ton of money for a very unproductive DL in Schobel, Kelsay and Tripplett. Marv brought in Royal- he sucks. Marv brought in Reyes and Davis- they both got cut and weren't even here two years. Price did nothing and now his career in Buffalo is likely over. Fowler sucks. A-Train was decent last year but sucks this year. We don't even have a FB- we just use mediocre TE's as mediocre H backs. Marv's drafts have been decent but his FA classes and re-signings have been nothing short of terrible.

I apologize for expecting results. I guess I should just sit back and accept the fact that we're East Detroit.

Name the FA's we passed on. Don't rememeber there being that many. I'm not sure I remember Randy Moss coming in for a try out.

[OpIv37]

Name the FA's we passed on. Don't rememeber there being that many. I'm not sure I remember Randy Moss coming in for a try out.

other teams have improved over the last two years and have made the leap into playoff contention. We haven't. So while I don't know who they are off hand, there are guys out there who could have helped.

But that's okay- somehow it's not our GM's fault that we remain mired in mediocrity while the rest of the league goes through up and down cycles and NE just continues to improve.

[djjimkelly]

how about while i really like mccargo we refuse to start him.

now think of what levy and jauron gave up for him.

a 2nd and a 3rd. lets just take a quick look at what was available at those picks.

hester jennings wr for packers jones-drew in the 2nd round i wont get into what we could have had with our second 3rd rounder.

BUT we would have 2 bodies instead of 1

all this being said i like mccargo alot the joke is we dont start him and hes not on field near enough to be a 1st rounder.

[HHURRICANE]

Looks like he learned his mistakes from Cleveland and built a dynasty. What did Dick learn from Chicago? Dicks team is in trouble again. His OC was questionable at chicago and our O ranks at the bottomof the league now. Who should be held accountable, Donahoe? Thats stupid.

Yeah, Dick's in trouble again. I would say the opnion outside of Buffalo is probably alot different than around here.

The best players on this team are a punter and a rookie running back.

[HHURRICANE]

other teams have improved over the last two years and have made the leap into playoff contention. We haven't. So while I don't know who they are off hand, there are guys out there who could have helped.

But that's okay- somehow it's not our GM's fault that we remain mired in mediocrity while the rest of the league goes through up and down cycles and NE just continues to improve.

Name the teams.

[justasportsfan]

The best players on this team are a punter and a rookie running back.
that's because the coaches don't know how to put the rest of the team in a position to succeed. Lee is still one of the best player on this team. Too bad we don't know how to use him like we don't know how to use Lynch.

[HHURRICANE]

other teams have improved over the last two years and have made the leap into playoff contention. We haven't. So while I don't know who they are off hand, there are guys out there who could have helped.

But that's okay- somehow it's not our GM's fault that we remain mired in mediocrity while the rest of the league goes through up and down cycles and NE just continues to improve.

Her ya go and bring an extinguisher:

2005

Bills 5-11
Jets 4-12
Ravens 6-10
Browns 6-10
Titans 4-12
Texans 2-14
Raiders 4-12
Eagles 6-10
Lions 5-11
Packers 4-12
Saints 3-13
Cards 5-11
49'rs 4-12

There's the list for you.

[HHURRICANE]

Her ya go and bring an extinguisher:

2005

Bills 5-11
Jets 4-12
Ravens 6-10
Browns 6-10
Titans 4-12
Texans 2-14
Raiders 4-12
Eagles 6-10
Lions 5-11
Packers 4-12
Saints 3-13
Cards 5-11
49'rs 4-12

There's the list for you.

Packers, Browns, and Titans.

Looks to me like these guys have a few more players than us.

[Mr. Pink]

Her ya go and bring an extinguisher:

2005

Bills 5-11
Jets 4-12
Ravens 6-10
Browns 6-10
Titans 4-12
Texans 2-14
Raiders 4-12
Eagles 6-10
Lions 5-11
Packers 4-12
Saints 3-13
Cards 5-11
49'rs 4-12

There's the list for you.

Jets made the playoffs last year.
Ravens made the playoffs last year.
Browns are the 6th seed as of today
Titans are a game back of the playoffs.
Eagles won their division last year.
Lions in contention
Packers are the best team in the NFC
Saints went to the NFC championship game last year.

So there's 8 teams out of your list in 2 years or less who made strides towards being legitimate teams.

[justasportsfan]

Jets made the playoffs last year.
Ravens made the playoffs last year.
Browns are the 6th seed as of today
Titans are a game back of the playoffs.
Eagles won their division last year.
Lions in contention
Packers are the best team in the NFC
Saints went to the NFC championship game last year.

So there's 8 teams out of your list in 2 years or less who made strides towards being legitimate teams.

:up:

[HHURRICANE]

Jets made the playoffs last year.
Ravens made the playoffs last year.
Browns are the 6th seed as of today
Titans are a game back of the playoffs.
Eagles won their division last year.
Lions in contention
Packers are the best team in the NFC
Saints went to the NFC championship game last year.

So there's 8 teams out of your list in 2 years or less who made strides towards being legitimate teams.

It is 2007?? Or do I get to go back and repick my stocks.

Today where do the teams stand. One hit wonders are just that.

And we are still in playoff contention even though I don't believe that.

[justasportsfan]

It is 2007?? Or do I get to go back and repick my stocks.

Today where do the teams stand. One hit wonders are just that.

And we are still in playoff contention even though I don't believe that.

we haven't even been a one hit wonder this decade. We're one of the few teams that haven't made playoffs this decade and yet there have been one hit wonders with less talent to make playoffs. That's the point.

[HHURRICANE]

we haven't even been a one hit wonder this decade. We're one of the few teams that haven't made playoffs this decade and yet there have been one hit wonders with less talent to make playoffs. That's the point.

The point is that Levy and Jauron have had the team for a season and a half and you guys expect them to fix 5 years of TD screw ups in less than 2 years.

This team is being and will continue to be built through the draft. Marv has alot of guys playing including our 3rd rounder now.

It sucks losing but Marv and Jauron were not handed a team that was full of talent so it doesn't get fixed over night. How long did it take Polian??????

I'm asking again. How long did it take Polian???? And he already had a franchise QB and a defensive leader in place.

[scott51]

Guys, I don't know how to break this to you but this isn't a very good football team.

You guys crticize Marv and Jauron like they inherited the Chargers or the Patriots. Our roster SUCKS!!!!

If you want to place blame start with that arrogant piece of crap Tom Donohoe. McGahee, Bledsoe, Losman, Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, Williams (both of them), Mularkey, and all of the other losers that aren't on our roster anymore.

This team is not even 2 years removed from TD and you guys act like we should be in playoff contention. We have George Wilson on the field for god's sake. Michael Gaines wasn't even on a roster and he's probably got more catches than Royal. Fred Jackson was in NFL Europe.

Sorry, this isn't "Invincible" or "Rudy" where the good guy prevails. We have **** for a roster and the guys that will impact this team are the ones that we are drafting.

Give it a rest.

I will criticize Jauron because this coaching staff sucks! At least offensively, I mean yeah, your right, there are other reasons besides coaching. IMO, we need a cut-throat, take charge, take no crap type coach to come in here and shape this team up. Sorry, but I am done trying to make excuses for ANYONE on this team. JP deserved ALOT of the blame but then the coaches (minus ST & DC) come in a very close second!

[justasportsfan]

The point is that Levy and Jauron have had the team for a season and a half and you guys expect them to fix 5 years of TD screw ups in less than 2 years.

This team is being and will continue to be built through the draft. Marv has alot of guys playing including our 3rd rounder now.

It sucks losing but Marv and Jauron were not handed a team that was full of talent so it doesn't get fixed over night. How long did it take Polian??????

I'm asking again. How long did it take Polian???? And he already had a franchise QB and a defensive leader in place.
Nope. I don't expect them to fix it in 2 years but I don't expect them to be still rebuilding in 3 years which is whats likely to happen when Evans leaves.

Will their 3rd year be used to DEVELOP Trent? what if Trent in't the guy, will we then draft another qb and then continue the rebuilding process?

You can wait for the fins to catch up with us all you want , I won't.

[Mr. Pink]

Nope. I don't expect them to fix it in 2 years but I don't expect them to be still rebuilding in 3 years which is whats likely to happen when Evans leaves.

Will their 3rd year be used to DEVELOP Trent? what if Trent in't the guy, will we then draft another qb and then continue the rebuilding process?

WHY NOT!

We're in the middle of a 10 year rebuilding program right now! In 2009 we might be good.

And yes, I realize that Levy isn't at fault for all of those years...but Modrak is at fault for about 6 of them. Yet he's still here.

[justasportsfan]

WHY NOT!

We're in the middle of a 10 year rebuilding program right now! In 2009 we might be good.

And yes, I realize that Levy isn't at fault for all of those years...but Modrak is at fault for about 6 of them. Yet he's still here.
Don't forget , MArv said in his first year that we weren't rebuilding. He later then took it back and said we were . I just dont expect MArv to be saying "we're still rebuilding in 2013" .

If that happens, skooby will be the only fan here and even then he'd be posting like OP.