Is it ok to say Keith Ellison is not the answer at OLB!

[bigbub2352]

Keith Ellison in my opinion is a shell of his former self from last year, maybe it is not playing with TKO and Fletch, or playing next to DIG, and Crowell, but Ellison is gettin blown away out there, u never see him in plays and i think he just might be too small to play OLB, i think he would be great depth, but a starter he is not,
i am hoping and praying for Carlos Dansby from ARZ or and i doubt it we take a run at Lance briggs, Poz either one of those two and Crowell, will sure make things alot more interesting for us on D
Just think that when a LBer isnt making plays for a Defense that makes ur LBer and attacking one and he still doesnt make plays, this means he is being dominated and that was obvious the last 3-4 games

[justasportsfan]

Move DiG or Poz to OLB.

[The Answer]

Keith Ellison in my opinion is a shell of his former self from last year, maybe it is not playing with TKO and Fletch, or playing next to DIG, and Crowell, but Ellison is gettin blown away out there, u never see him in plays and i think he just might be too small to play OLB, i think he would be great depth, but a starter he is not,
i am hoping and praying for Carlos Dansby from ARZ or and i doubt it we take a run at Lance briggs, Poz either one of those two and Crowell, will sure make things alot more interesting for us on D
Just think that when a LBer isnt making plays for a Defense that makes ur LBer and attacking one and he still doesnt make plays, this means he is being dominated and that was obvious the last 3-4 games

This is why we will make an attempt to go after Lance Briggs in the offseason - even though we will not offer near the amount of money he will be looking for.

~The Answer

[OpIv37]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. This guy was only on the field last year due to injuries. I can't want to get Poz back next year - hopefully he or DiG can play outside.

[justasportsfan]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. This guy was only on the field last year due to injuries. I can't want to get Poz back next year - hopefully he or DiG can play outside.


Don't gloat. You've been wrong about other things.

[camelcowboy]

Crowell isn't the answer either, he looked pretty bad yesterday.

[bigbub2352]

Crowell isn't the answer either, he looked pretty bad yesterday.
Crowell is the answer the teams are keying on him and letting the other 2 get run thru, Dig and Ellison will be good depth but starters they are not, Poz stays in the middle, Crowell on the outside, and draft of FA sign the replacement for Ellison, doesnt help much either that our Dline gets run thru as well

[Romes]

OLB, CB and FS are all positions that need upgrading on the D.

[justasportsfan]

OLB, CB and FS are all positions that need upgrading on the D.
I Like Kyle WIlliams but he's not a starter. We need to be dominant up the middle. Our DT's have disappeared the last few games. We can't keep stacking the line with 8 to help the DT's stop the run.

[hydro]

Crowell isn't the answer either, he looked pretty bad yesterday.

Gannon showed how much of a liability he can be at times. :(

[Romes]

I Like Kyle WIlliams but he's not a starter. We need to be dominant up the middle. Our DT's have disappeared the last few games. We can't keep stacking the line with 8 to help the DT's stop the run.

I actually think the DT's have been good for the most part.

If the LB's could fill the gaps properly and tackle maybe Donte wouldn't need to come up.

Truthfully speaking there is no one on D that really is irreplaceable.

[justasportsfan]

I actually think the DT's have been good for the most part.

If the LB's could fill the gaps properly and tackle maybe Donte wouldn't need to come up.

Truthfully speaking there is no one on D that really is irreplaceable.our DT's are not collapsing the pocket. THey are not pressuring the qb's up the middle. They only suffice against average O's. They aren't good enough against playoff teams.

I don't want to have to send our lb'ers or safeties to stop the run or send pressure all the time .

[EDS]

Crowell isn't the answer either, he looked pretty bad yesterday.

If Crowell isn't the answer the team is in big trouble because he is the best defensive player the team has.

[raphael120]

So let's see...we have the same holes we had when Marv got here...plus some!

Great work Marv!!!

[EDS]

I actually think the DT's have been good for the most part.

If the LB's could fill the gaps properly and tackle maybe Donte wouldn't need to come up.

Truthfully speaking there is no one on D that really is irreplaceable.

The defensive tackles have done nothing for two years now. The Bills desperately need a DT that can stuff the run and make some plays.

[streetkings01]

I honestly forgot Ellison was still on the team! All jokes aside I really forgot.

[bigbub2352]

Gannon showed how much of a liability he can be at times. :(
no he showed Crowell taking on the blocker, and in this **** Cover 2 scheme we run backside pursuit is suppossed to collapse the running lanes and get him in the hole, we was Dig and Ellison on that play being overwhelmed by blockers, just sayin Crowell isnt the problem, the Scheme, Schobel, Triplett, Wilson, Ellison, Williams and to some extent Dig are what is allowing this D to be walked all over

[don137]

He reminds me of Jeff Posey. Someone that is on the field but you never hear his name called making a tackle or a big play....basically a roster filler with no play making ability.

[Griz78]

I think Crowell needs to go back on the Weakside where he was at the Start of last season with Spikes at SLB. He was also productive in mularkey's last year at WLB. I would move Poz maybe to SLB or perhaps draft someone.

[Jersey1031]

Move Poz to OLB.


I think Crowell needs to go back on the Weakside


And then go after Vilma next off-season for MLB!

[OpIv37]

Don't gloat. You've been wrong about other things.

never said I wasn't- but I was right about this one.

[justasportsfan]

never said I wasn't- but I was right about this one.

so you're gonna say I told you so for the things you were right only?

[OpIv37]

so you're gonna say I told you so for the things you were right only?

well yeah, of course .... saying "I told you so" when I'm wrong doesn't many any sense.

[John Doe]

Ellison did not meet expectations this year - he had more of an impact last season and was the star of training camp this pre-season before the high ankle sprain.

Ellison is only a 2nd year man - he has upside and he is a good pass defender. Writing off this guy completely is premature.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

Talk about a sophomore slump. Its almost like he is at an Alex Smith status.

[colin]

elison is a 6th rounder playing above himself at times.

we need lance briggs. that dude is AWESOME. he is to the cover 2 what TKO was to the zone blitz d we had before.

with briggs poz and crow, with ell and dig as backups, we will have an LB core that can chase people down and murder them, cover, and blitz when they need to. that's a serious tampa 2 set right there.

i think we need a new corner, a big one. we can get a number of different people for that. ko will be back tho, and booty should be healthier.

i'd like another DT too, someone who can get after people, a day one pick will do well here.

that's enough on D for me.

on o i'd like a playmaker and maybe a new RG/C

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

elison is a 6th rounder playing above himself at times.

we need lance briggs. that dude is AWESOME. he is to the cover 2 what TKO was to the zone blitz d we had before.

with briggs poz and crow, with ell and dig as backups, we will have an LB core that can chase people down and murder them, cover, and blitz when they need to. that's a serious tampa 2 set right there.

i think we need a new corner, a big one. we can get a number of different people for that. ko will be back tho, and booty should be healthier.

i'd like another DT too, someone who can get after people, a day one pick will do well here.

that's enough on D for me.

on o i'd like a playmaker and maybe a new RG/C
Briggs would be an early Christmas present for us next year. We have 10 million in cap right now, I don't know what the number will be for next year but we should have enough to make him a good offer. Lets draft a WR and Pass rushing end with our first two picks.

[streetkings01]

Briggs would be an early Christmas present for us next year. We have 10 million in cap right now, I don't know what the number will be for next year but we should have enough to make him a good offer. Lets draft a WR and Pass rushing end with our first two picks.I agree with everything except the pass rushing end. I think we need to use our top 4 picks in no particular order on a NT, TE, physical WR, and a C.

[hydro]

no he showed Crowell taking on the blocker, and in this **** Cover 2 scheme we run backside pursuit is suppossed to collapse the running lanes and get him in the hole, we was Dig and Ellison on that play being overwhelmed by blockers, just sayin Crowell isnt the problem, the Scheme, Schobel, Triplett, Wilson, Ellison, Williams and to some extent Dig are what is allowing this D to be walked all over

Where would you rather have your backside pursuit meet the running back? Up the middle where they get to him quicker? Or at the sideline where it takes them longer to get him? Crowell took the block up the middle, the back went to the outside and that backside pursuit didn't make it. Thats why he is scrutinized.

[Wys Guy]

Keith Ellison in my opinion is a shell of his former self from last year, ...

ROFLMAO

[OpIv37]

Ellison did not meet expectations this year - he had more of an impact last season and was the star of training camp this pre-season before the high ankle sprain.

Ellison is only a 2nd year man - he has upside and he is a good pass defender. Writing off this guy completely is premature.

oh man- I'm really sick of this ****. Everyone on this team just needs more time- no one is ever accountable for their performance.

We can either try to improve the position or we can sit around and wait for a player to do something he's never proven he can do. The guy was a 6th round draft pick- it's not like he was highly touted coming in. He was basically a depth selection that we're trying to use as a starter- which is something this team has done way too often with sub-par results.

[Owen DeBoard]

I think we might as well forget about Briggs. The Bears are goin to resign him. I think they were in talks for some time and decided to wait to the offseason to get a deal done. The Bears would be crazy to let him walk he is their biggest playmaker on that D.

[John Doe]

oh man- I'm really sick of this ****. Everyone on this team just needs more time- no one is ever accountable for their performance.

We can either try to improve the position or we can sit around and wait for a player to do something he's never proven he can do. The guy was a 6th round draft pick- it's not like he was highly touted coming in. He was basically a depth selection that we're trying to use as a starter- which is something this team has done way too often with sub-par results.

I don't recall saying that the Bills should not try to upgrade the linebacker position or any other spot on the roster, but, if that is your take and you want to be upset about it, then by all means cry and stamp your feet.

I could care less if he were a high or low draft pick or if he were "highly touted" or not. If that is how you base your analysis of players then so be it. It is not how I base my analysis of players.

The facts remain: Ellison played well as a rookie. He had a great pre-season - one of the stars of training camp. He was not the same after his injury. He remains a viable player and has upside. To write him off completely is unwise.

[njsue]

Keith Ellison in my opinion is a shell of his former self from last year, maybe it is not playing with TKO and Fletch, or playing next to DIG, and Crowell, but Ellison is gettin blown away out there, u never see him in plays and i think he just might be too small to play OLB, i think he would be great depth, but a starter he is not,
i am hoping and praying for Carlos Dansby from ARZ or and i doubt it we take a run at Lance briggs, Poz either one of those two and Crowell, will sure make things alot more interesting for us on D
Just think that when a LBer isnt making plays for a Defense that makes ur LBer and attacking one and he still doesnt make plays, this means he is being dominated and that was obvious the last 3-4 games

It is just sickening to watch this every week.

[Kerr]

Ellison has played like a back up. He is a backup.
Like finch said, move Poz outside next year and sign Vilma.
Also, Crowell's problem is he's not consistent on staying w/ his assignment. He takes the wrong angles sometimes and allows rb's to blow past him.

[Tatonka]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. .

:rolleyes:

yeah.. you "hate" to say i told you so.. but take every opportunity you can.

[mybills]

well yeah, of course .... saying "I told you so" when I'm wrong doesn't many any sense.
:rofl:

[OpIv37]

I don't recall saying that the Bills should not try to upgrade the linebacker position or any other spot on the roster, but, if that is your take and you want to be upset about it, then by all means cry and stamp your feet.

I could care less if he were a high or low draft pick or if he were "highly touted" or not. If that is how you base your analysis of players then so be it. It is not how I base my analysis of players.

The facts remain: Ellison played well as a rookie. He had a great pre-season - one of the stars of training camp. He was not the same after his injury. He remains a viable player and has upside. To write him off completely is unwise.

To never write anyone off is unwise. This team is full of sub-par players that need improvement and most of them never improve. We keep guys with ST ability and "upside" who have never proven anything and it shows on the field. Just once I'd like to keep someone for proven ability at their position.

[OpIv37]

:rolleyes:

yeah.. you "hate" to say i told you so.. but take every opportunity you can.

Actually, that's total BS.

Go back and find one other time when I did it.

The only time I talk about where I was right is when people challenge me and say I'm wrong all the time, or refuse to listen to what I have to say because they don't want to ruin their delusions about the team.

[madness]

Ellison has been serviceable but will be a backup next year when DiGi slides over. The valuable playing time he's received will only make our LB depth that much better.

[justasportsfan]

well yeah, of course .... saying "I told you so" when I'm wrong doesn't many any sense.

I don't see you saying you were wrong everytime they mention the D , especially the run D because YOU WERE WRONG. :D

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

Crowell isn't the answer either, he looked pretty bad yesterday.

you kidding me? crowell is our best LB, and he is the answer, the guys a beast..i dont know what you're watching when he's out there, he's almost in on every play.

[justasportsfan]

you kidding me? crowell is our best LB, and he is the answer, the guys a beast..i dont know what you're watching when he's out there, he's almost in on every play.
yup, we bills fans love shipping out our best players. Evans is a cancer remember?

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

considering were not going to give lance briggs enough money where he considers..I say we go after Dansby, i like this guy, he's fast and quick, and has awesome tackling..

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

yup, we bills fans love shipping out our best players. Evans is a cancer remember?
ya seriously..Evans is a hugee cancer.

[justasportsfan]

And then go after Vilma next off-season for MLB!


He's undersized but fast. Perfect fit here but I doubt our coaches are gonna bite. They love our LB'ers.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

He's undersized but fast. Perfect fit here but I doubt our coaches are gonna bite. They love our LB'ers.
id love to have vilma on this D..but just is right, for some reason the coaches love our LB'ers..especially ellison, but he'll probably still be here and start next year.:bad:

[bigbub2352]

I am not saying by any means to cut Ellison, but if this coaching staff is ok with Digorgio and Ellison as Starters next year, we r in serious trouble, i have stated many times i wan Carlos Dansby on this team, he is a beast and probably wont ask the same as Briggs money and i believe he is 2 yrs younger than Briggs and bigger as well, i would luv Ellison and Dig to replace the useless Lber depth we have now in Haggan and Stamer and Wire, lets face it guys after 5 yrs what truly have they done for this team, We need upgrades, does the FO see it this way, PROBABLY NOT, and that is were the problem is, u gotta remember this D has shined only against one good opponent and that is Dallas, otherwise any team with real coaching schemes run up and down the feild at will against Perry Fewell,

Ellison is like 225lbs, and so is Dig i understand the concept of this D, but guess what we r not attacking anyone AT ALL, argue with me all u want, ranked 31st on D and giving up 92 points in 2 games, is all i am gonna come back with

[bigbub2352]

Where would you rather have your backside pursuit meet the running back? Up the middle where they get to him quicker? Or at the sideline where it takes them longer to get him? Crowell took the block up the middle, the back went to the outside and that backside pursuit didn't make it. Thats why he is scrutinized.

HUH?
Backside pursuit needs to pursue, not stand up and stand in the same spot, u know flow to the ball, i dunno what u mean

[justasportsfan]

id love to have vilma on this D..but just is right, for some reason the coaches love our LB'ers..especially ellison, but he'll probably still be here and start next year.:bad:
lets not forget, Vilma will cost a lot. I doubt Ralphy will dish out the cash to get him here.

[JerseyBoofaloBills]

lets not forget, Vilma will cost a lot. I doubt Ralphy will dish out the cash to get him here.

this is true also..so basically we just sign ****ty players because ralphy is cheap and we settle for scrubs and draft picks.

[EDS]

I don't see you saying you were wrong everytime they mention the D , especially the run D because YOU WERE WRONG. :D


The run defense is terrible. Did he say it was good?

[justasportsfan]

The run defense is terrible. Did he say it was good?
he said it would be worse than last years.

[hydro]

HUH?
Backside pursuit needs to pursue, not stand up and stand in the same spot, u know flow to the ball, i dunno what u mean
But wouldn't your rather they get to back quicker? If Crowell takes on the block to the outside, the back is forced up the middle where backside support gets to him quicker.

Crowell tends to take on the blocker towards the inside, the back then runs toward the sideline where the backside support will obviously not get there as quickly. This kind of play is what happened this past sunday, and Fred Taylor got a big run out of it.

[Tatonka]

Actually, that's total BS.

Go back and find one other time when I did it.

The only time I talk about where I was right is when people challenge me and say I'm wrong all the time, or refuse to listen to what I have to say because they don't want to ruin their delusions about the team.


so where did someone challenge you to open your obnoxious trap on this thread? i didnt see any place where someone said "Hey OP... you were way off about ellison.. can you show us how right you are and shine the light on yourself, you all-knowing god of the national football league?"

[OpIv37]

so where did someone challenge you to open your obnoxious trap on this thread? i didnt see any place where someone said "Hey OP... you were way off about ellison.. can you show us how right you are and shine the light on yourself, you all-knowing god of the national football league?"

I said one OTHER time, implying that I did do it this time. But you didn't acknowledge that because you were trying so hard to be a condescending jackass. I did do it this time, I admitted it, and you're falsely accusing me of doing it all the time.

[bigbub2352]

But wouldn't your rather they get to back quicker? If Crowell takes on the block to the outside, the back is forced up the middle where backside support gets to him quicker.

Crowell tends to take on the blocker towards the inside, the back then runs toward the sideline where the backside support will obviously not get there as quickly. This kind of play is what happened this past sunday, and Fred Taylor got a big run out of it.

Ok gotcha now, i think u r misunderstanding what i am saying, i agree Crowell took the block to the inside, what i was trying to say is that there was no backside pursuit on the play, Dig and Ellison just stood there, and that comes from lack of instincts, and also being consumed by the play, what i was trying to say was what the Hell were those 2 doin on that play, on the replay it shows they dopnt pursue at all let alone backside

[hydro]

Ok gotcha now, i think u r misunderstanding what i am saying, i agree Crowell took the block to the inside, what i was trying to say is that there was no backside pursuit on the play, Dig and Ellison just stood there, and that comes from lack of instincts, and also being consumed by the play, what i was trying to say was what the Hell were those 2 doin on that play, on the replay it shows they dopnt pursue at all let alone backside
Ah ok, i see what your saying. :up:

[eyedog]

Briggs isn't coming, Vilma is overrated and undersized {more of what we already have} along with over priced, so he isn't coming.
Crowell is legit, Poz looks like he will be a player, Ellison and Diq. are NFL backups, and Stamer, Haggen, Wire shouldn't even be on the team. This team isn't good enough to keep players specifically for special teams.
They definitely need to draft a linebacker on day one who can step in and play.