I'm sick of the criticism of Marv Levy!!!!!

[HHURRICANE]

Please consider how bad TD left this team before criticizing Marv. In addition take a look at who's playing because the majority is Marv guys and not TD guys.

Think about it. TD is not even 2 years removed and a majority of the roster is people that Marv brought in. That's insane so stop the BS. Please review:

Offense:

Edwards - Marv
Lynch - Marv
Peters - TD
Dockery - Marv
Fowler - Marv
Butler - Marv
Walker - Marv
Evans - TD
Parrish - TD
Reed - TD
Price - Marv
Royal - Marv
Gaines - Marv

Defense:

Kelsay - TD
Tripplett - Marv
McCargo - Marv
Williams - Marv
Hargrove - Marv
Schobel - TD
McGee - TD
Greer - TD
Crowell - TD
DiGorgio - Marv
Poz - Marv
Whitner - Marv
Simpson - Marv

[Jan Reimers]

Marv has done a good job of replenishing our roster, after 5 years of poor drafting and over-paying free agents under Donahoe.

Marv has drafted very well, which should become more apparent next year when the young guys have a little more experience, and a couple of key players come off IR. And he has done decently in free agency, given the budget constraints under which he is operating.

If we get, and stay, relatively healthy next year (and if Edwards is the real deal), we're 3 or 4 players from being a good team.

[TacklingDummy]

So basically what you are saying is Marv is responsible for the garbage that is on the field?

j/k

Donahoe set this franchise back 10 years. It's not really all his fault. Many people on this board wanted the Bills to draft Mike Williams. Was it Donahoe fault he became a bust?

Is it Donahoe fault Travis Henry liked a variety of women, starting with some 13 year old at a gas station?

Many people on here love JP. Are they blaming Donahoe for drafting him? ( TDummy has the right to blast this pick, he's been one of the more vocal anti-JP posters, the majority of the rest of you can shut up on this pick)

McGahee? Good pick at the time. How was Donahoe suppose to know he'd be a Travis Henry wannabe?

Donahoe did make some good draft picks...Clements, McGee, Evans, Peters, Schobel...

And he did bring in Free Agents...Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, Milloy, Bledsoe (trade), etc...

Oh well....

Marv did give a boat load of money to Kelsay, Dockery, Schobel, Walker...I guess that is something.

And Marv did shock the world drafting Whitner 8th his first draft. I like Whitner but he was the wrong pick at the time.

[OpIv37]

Offense:

Edwards - Marv
Lynch - Marv
Peters - TD
Dockery - Marv
Fowler - Marv sucks
Butler - Marv
Walker - Marv
Evans - TD
Parrish - TD
Reed - TD
Price - Marv sucks
Royal - Marv sucks
Gaines - Marv Robert Royal II

Defense:

Kelsay - TD re-signed by Marv so this one's on Marv now
Tripplett - Marv sucks
McCargo - Marv
Williams - Marv
Hargrove - Marv
Schobel - TD re-signed by Marv so this one's on Marv now
McGee - TD
Greer - TD
Crowell - TD
DiGorgio - Marv
Poz - Marv
Whitner - Marv
Simpson - Marv

And let's not forget the rest of Marv's FA signings: Reyes (cut), Andre Davis (cut), A Train (good last year, sucks this year), K Thomas (decent situational player), tendered Tim Anderson (cut).

Marv's FA's and re-signings have been awful and he deserves the criticism.

[Philagape]

The jury's still out, and most of his draft picks look promising, but under cash to cap there's little margin for error. I find it especially disturbing that in two years he has not acquired a legit receiving threat, which is really hurting the offense, and that he's rewarded mediocrity/inconsistency by locking up Kelsay and Schobel long term. Plus he'll be judged by his coaching choice, who doesn't inspire confidence at all.

[TacklingDummy]

I find it especially disturbing that in two years he has not acquired a legit receiving threat, which is really hurting the offense, and that he's rewarded mediocrity/inconsistency by locking up Kelsay and Schobel long term. Plus he'll be judged by his coaching choice, who doesn't inspire confidence at all.

The problem I have with these kind of statements is, who was Marv suppose to go out and get for a receiving threat?

And someone has to play DE. Who was suppose to take Schobel/Kelsay place? I understand they are both overpayed.

Who should the Bills have hired as Head Coach?

Rome wasn't built in a day. And neither was the Patriots.

[Bill Brasky]

Is it Donahoe fault Travis Henry liked a variety of women, starting with some 13 year old at a gas station?


hahaha

[EDS]

Marv still gets an incomplete. He has made some very questionable free agent decisions, his drafts look o.k., but other than Lynch no draftee has really made any substantial impact on the team.

You also have to factor in the reality that players TD brought in to the fold were traded for picks that allowed the Bills to acquire guys like McCargo and Poz.

[Michael82]

Offense:

Edwards - Marv
Lynch - Marv
Peters - TD
Dockery - Marv
Fowler - Marv sucks
Butler - Marv
Walker - Marv
Evans - TD
Parrish - TD
Reed - TD
Price - Marv sucks
Royal - Marv sucks
Gaines - Marv Robert Royal II

Defense:

Kelsay - TD re-signed by Marv so this one's on Marv now
Tripplett - Marv sucks
McCargo - Marv
Williams - Marv
Hargrove - Marv
Schobel - TD re-signed by Marv so this one's on Marv now
McGee - TD
Greer - TD
Crowell - TD
DiGorgio - Marv
Poz - Marv
Whitner - Marv
Simpson - Marv

And let's not forget the rest of Marv's FA signings: Reyes (cut), Andre Davis (cut), A Train (good last year, sucks this year), K Thomas (decent situational player), tendered Tim Anderson (cut).

Marv's FA's and re-signings have been awful and he deserves the criticism.
It won't get better until they finally wise up and get rid of that idiot John Guy! :mad:

[OpIv37]

The problem I have with these kind of statements is, who was Marv suppose to go out and get for a receiving threat?

And someone has to play DE. Who was suppose to take Schobel/Kelsay place? I understand they are both overpayed.

Who should the Bills have hired as Head Coach?

Rome wasn't built in a day. And neither was the Patriots.

Denney/Hargrove could easily replace Kelsay.

As far as WR's: NE got two this off season plus Kyle Brady at TE while we stood by and said "meh, Peerless Price is good enough."

[TacklingDummy]

Could you hear all the crying on thise board if the Bills traded for Moss this past offseason?

It wouldn't be from me. I'd have had no problem adding Moss or TO to the Bills roster.

[OpIv37]

Could you hear all the crying on thise board if the Bills traded for Moss this past offseason?

It wouldn't be from me. I'd have had no problem adding Moss or TO to the Bills roster.

The thing about TO and Moss is that they're both on teams that are winning. When their teams are losing, that's when they become a locker room cancer. Moss is behaving because NE is undefeated and has already won the division- I don't think he'd be behaving so well if he was on our 5-6 team with our coach who lets the QB's take turns like a couple of 3rd graders with a PSP.

[HHURRICANE]

The problem I have with these kind of statements is, who was Marv suppose to go out and get for a receiving threat?

And someone has to play DE. Who was suppose to take Schobel/Kelsay place? I understand they are both overpayed.

Who should the Bills have hired as Head Coach?

Rome wasn't built in a day. And neither was the Patriots.

Wow, great post, and I 100% agree!!!!

[OpIv37]

did any of you guys bother to notice that plenty of other teams have improved a lot more than the Bills over the last two years?

The team ranges from lousy to mediocre and never gets good, but it's never anyone's fault.

[HHURRICANE]

So basically what you are saying is Marv is responsible for the garbage that is on the field?

j/k

Donahoe set this franchise back 10 years. It's not really all his fault. Many people on this board wanted the Bills to draft Mike Williams. Was it Donahoe fault he became a bust?

Is it Donahoe fault Travis Henry liked a variety of women, starting with some 13 year old at a gas station?

Many people on here love JP. Are they blaming Donahoe for drafting him? ( TDummy has the right to blast this pick, he's been one of the more vocal anti-JP posters, the majority of the rest of you can shut up on this pick)

McGahee? Good pick at the time. How was Donahoe suppose to know he'd be a Travis Henry wannabe?

Donahoe did make some good draft picks...Clements, McGee, Evans, Peters, Schobel...

And he did bring in Free Agents...Spikes, Fletcher, Adams, Milloy, Bledsoe (trade), etc...

Oh well....

Marv did give a boat load of money to Kelsay, Dockery, Schobel, Walker...I guess that is something.

And Marv did shock the world drafting Whitner 8th his first draft. I like Whitner but he was the wrong pick at the time.

Kind of hard to say "how was he supposed to know". That's why you sit down with players and determine their character before deciding to draft them.

If I make what I think are good decisions, that turn out bad, I still get asked to step down.

Sorry, the team is void of talent because of Donohoe. He's still to blame and now that Losman is done you can add another to the list.

[TacklingDummy]

did any of you guys bother to notice that plenty of other teams have improved a lot more than the Bills over the last two years?

The team ranges from lousy to mediocre and never gets good, but it's never anyone's fault.

There are 31 other teams in the NFL. Not every player wants to play for the Bills. And that's where overpaying comes into play.

The Bills won't be consistently good until they get a franchise QB and a couple other key players in the draft.

[HHURRICANE]

did any of you guys bother to notice that plenty of other teams have improved a lot more than the Bills over the last two years?

The team ranges from lousy to mediocre and never gets good, but it's never anyone's fault.

That's factually incorrect. I made a list in another thread.

[TacklingDummy]

Kind of hard to say "how was he supposed to know". That's why you sit down with players and determine their character before deciding to draft them.



I still believe it's more on the players for not performing. A coach and GM can only do so much.

[OpIv37]

That's factually incorrect. I made a list in another thread.

and you were factually incorrect- someone corrected your list and showed all the teams that have improved over that span.

[OpIv37]

There are 31 other teams in the NFL. Not every player wants to play for the Bills. And that's where overpaying comes into play.

The Bills won't be consistently good until they get a franchise QB and a couple other key players in the draft.

agreed on the QB but it's not just about the draft. And drafting doesn't matter when we overpay mediocrity like Kelsay and Schobel. Remember, NE took another huge leap with FA acquisitions.

If players don't want to be here, there's a reason and they need to correct that.

[justasportsfan]

If the jets can make playoffs in their first year of rebuild , I expect the bills to make it next year . No excuses for MArv.

[HHURRICANE]

and you were factually incorrect- someone corrected your list and showed all the teams that have improved over that span.

No, someobody decided to ignore 2007 and just point out that teams like the Saints and Jets made the playoff in 2006.

Certianly it would be easier to judge if all 32 teams hired new coaches and GM's at the same time but the reality is that after a season and a half the Bills were improving.

[HHURRICANE]

2005

Bills 5-11
Jets 4-12
Ravens 6-10
Browns 6-10
Titans 4-12
Texans 2-14
Raiders 4-12
Eagles 6-10
Lions 5-11
Packers 4-12
Saints 3-13
Cards 5-11
49'rs 4-12

What teams, this year, do we want to steal their gameplan for success from?

You realize that there is only one team that we are not within a game of and they have a HOF QB. Take Favre and put him on our team and what would our record look like?

[OpIv37]

No, someobody decided to ignore 2007 and just point out that teams like the Saints and Jets made the playoff in 2006.

Certianly it would be easier to judge if all 32 teams hired new coaches and GM's at the same time but the reality is that after a season and a half the Bills were improving.

incrementally improving- at the pace we're moving, positions that are set will become problems before we fix the existing problems. It's a never ending cycle of rebuilding.

[OpIv37]

and after a year and a half, we've beaten ZERO good teams. No upsets, with the arguable exception of Cincy last year. We're still a bottom-feeder in this league and I'm really sick of it.

[TacklingDummy]

and after a year and a half, we've beaten ZERO good teams. No upsets, with the arguable exception of Cincy last year. We're still a bottom-feeder in this league and I'm really sick of it.

What players would you have drafted/signed/traded for the past 2 years that would have made the Bills playoff contenders?

[justasportsfan]

What players would you have drafted/signed/traded for the past 2 years that would have made the Bills playoff contenders?
Although TD left Marv with a very good cap situation, it didn't matter because the new CBA kicked in . Instead of being one of the teams that had the ability to be a big time FA player, all the teams all of a sudden had the ability to compete with the bills.

[TacklingDummy]

Although TD left Marv with a very good cap situation, it didn't matter because the new CBA kicked in . Instead of being one of the teams that had the ability to be a big time FA player, all the teams all of a sudden had the ability to compete with the bills.

Agreed.

But it's not like Marv sat back and did nothing.

Everyone on this board *****ed about the o-line last year. What did Marv do? This past off-season they went out and spent a ton of money on Dockery, Walker, and Whittle. Ironically the o-line is still *****ed about.

One piece at a time.

The Bills will be good when they can get a franchise QB, Center, big fat slob run stuffing DT, and a DE that can consistently rush the passer.

[HHURRICANE]

What players would you have drafted/signed/traded for the past 2 years that would have made the Bills playoff contenders?

Nobody will answer this question. I have posed it several times but it's easier to *****.

Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker, and drafting Butler have made significant improvements to the line. A better center would help but all in all it's significantly improved.

All of the criticism for overpaying for Dockery and he has looked like the best lineman out there. Better than Peters.

[Philagape]

As far as receivers, Kevin Curtis and Drew Bennett were available this year. Hackett was an RFA. All would have been upgrades.

[Mr. Pink]

2005

Bills 5-11
Jets 4-12
Ravens 6-10
Browns 6-10
Titans 4-12
Texans 2-14
Raiders 4-12
Eagles 6-10
Lions 5-11
Packers 4-12
Saints 3-13
Cards 5-11
49'rs 4-12

What teams, this year, do we want to steal their gameplan for success from?

You realize that there is only one team that we are not within a game of and they have a HOF QB. Take Favre and put him on our team and what would our record look like?

Actually 2. And that other team has done A LOT in FA to make the team better.
I can't stand that people use the "you have to build through the draft" to be better. It's hogwash. Teams don't turn around in one year because of a draft. You don't go from a top 5 pick to playoff contender because of a draft.

[OpIv37]

Nobody will answer this question. I have posed it several times but it's easier to *****.

Derrick Dockery, Langston Walker, and drafting Butler have made significant improvements to the line. A better center would help but all in all it's significantly improved.

All of the criticism for overpaying for Dockery and he has looked like the best lineman out there. Better than Peters.

at pass blocking- that's a $70 million offensive line that still can't run block.

You know, I have a job that's not related to football. Marv doesn't- it's his job to find out who's out there and bring them in. Other teams are doing it and doing it successfully, so obviously there are guys out there.

"There's no one better" doesn't justify giving guys like Kelsay and Price big contracts.

[Mr. Pink]

What players would you have drafted/signed/traded for the past 2 years that would have made the Bills playoff contenders?

It's not that hard to come up with a better list, but anyone who defends Marv will then criticize the plan an individual poster comes up with and finish it off by saying "you're not in the NFL, you know nothing, Marv knows all."

Even easier is I can tell you I would have never signed Price, re-signed Reed, re-signed Kelsay, re-signed Fat Anderon, had JP as the QB, signed A-train, sign melvin fowler and not resign Fletcher.

[OpIv37]

It's not that hard to come up with a better list, but anyone who defends Marv will then criticize the plan an individual poster comes up with and finish it off by saying "you're not in the NFL, you know nothing, Marv knows all."

Even easier is I can tell you I would have never signed Price, re-signed Reed, re-signed Kelsay, re-signed Fat Anderon, had JP as the QB, signed A-train, sign melvin fowler and not resign Fletcher.

I could go either way on Reed- he's a decent #3 but sucks as a #2, which is how we try to use him.

I totally agree on the rest of it.

[TacklingDummy]

So another words you can say what you wouldn't have done but not what you would have done?

[hydro]

Is it possible that he is dealing with a strict budget and a owner that wants to mingle in decisions?

[TacklingDummy]

As far as receivers, Kevin Curtis and Drew Bennett were available this year. Hackett was an RFA. All would have been upgrades.

Curtis has 50 Rec and 4 TDs, 3 of which came in the same game.

Bennett has 23 Rec, 2TDs

Hackett??

Better reciever doesn't solve Buffalo's problem of crappy Quarterbacking.

[Mr. Pink]

So another words you can say what you wouldn't have done but not what you would have done?

in other words I'm saying it would be a big waste of time.

I'll give one example instead of drafting whitner last year, I woulda drafted Bunkley. I'm sure someone will flame me for it but oh well. I woulda never traded up to get McCargo as it would have been unnecessary, but I woulda traded up to draft Mangold - hence why Melvin Awfuler wouldn't be here.

In order not to waste my time further, I'll stop there.

[OpIv37]

in other words I'm saying it would be a big waste of time.

I'll give one example instead of drafting whitner last year, I woulda drafted Bunkley. I'm sure someone will flame me for it but oh well. I woulda never traded up to get McCargo as it would have been unnecessary, but I woulda traded up to draft Mangold - hence why Melvin Awfuler wouldn't be here.

In order not to waste my time further, I'll stop there.

now everyone's gonna come in and talk about how we'd be hurting at S with that plan, but they're the same people who talk about how great Leonard and Wilson have been doing.

[TacklingDummy]

in other words I'm saying it would be a big waste of time.

I'll give one example instead of drafting whitner last year, I woulda drafted Bunkley. I'm sure someone will flame me for it but oh well. I woulda never traded up to get McCargo as it would have been unnecessary, but I woulda traded up to draft Mangold - hence why Melvin Awfuler wouldn't be here.

In order not to waste my time further, I'll stop there.

I'll agree with this.

Marv screwed up drafting Whitner. I wanted Ngata. Even Cutler would have been a better pick then Whitner. And I also would have wanted Mangold over McCargo. Wouldn't have needed McCargo if the drafted Ngata first.

[TacklingDummy]

now everyone's gonna come in and talk about how we'd be hurting at S with that plan, but they're the same people who talk about how great Leonard and Wilson have been doing.

The best thing for any secondary is a consistent pass rush.

[Mr. Pink]

now everyone's gonna come in and talk about how we'd be hurting at S with that plan, but they're the same people who talk about how great Leonard and Wilson have been doing.

That's easy too..instead of bringing in Bowen - waste, you go out and bring in Lance Schulters and or the money concious, there was always Earl Little, Reggie Tongue or Will Demps.

[HHURRICANE]

It's not that hard to come up with a better list, but anyone who defends Marv will then criticize the plan an individual poster comes up with and finish it off by saying "you're not in the NFL, you know nothing, Marv knows all."

Even easier is I can tell you I would have never signed Price, re-signed Reed, re-signed Kelsay, re-signed Fat Anderon, had JP as the QB, signed A-train, sign melvin fowler and not resign Fletcher.

We were 5-11 in '05 with a bunch of FA's that weren't doing squat on this team.

We should have taken a step back in '06 but instead we went 7-9 last year. Most people were thinking that we might do worse in '07 with the massive purge but if we finish at .500 or better most people in the league would be shocked especially in light of the numerous injuries.

You can't change a roster overnight and the reason we are struggling right now is that TD didn't leave us with a nucleus to build around. We are starting from scratch.

[HHURRICANE]

in other words I'm saying it would be a big waste of time.

I'll give one example instead of drafting whitner last year, I woulda drafted Bunkley. I'm sure someone will flame me for it but oh well. I woulda never traded up to get McCargo as it would have been unnecessary, but I woulda traded up to draft Mangold - hence why Melvin Awfuler wouldn't be here.

In order not to waste my time further, I'll stop there.

Assuming that your crystal ball doesn't work any better than Marv's it's not like Levy's drafts haven't been above average.

[justasportsfan]

Marv's fault is that he decided to GM for Ralphy.

[Mr. Pink]

We were 5-11 in '05 with a bunch of FA's that weren't doing squat on this team.

We should have taken a step back in '06 but instead we went 7-9 last year. Most people were thinking that we might do worse in '07 with the massive purge but if we finish at .500 or better most people in the league would be shocked especially in light of the numerous injuries.

You can't change a roster overnight and the reason we are struggling right now is that TD didn't leave us with a nucleus to build around. We are starting from scratch.

We are?

What would you consider the nucleus then?

[Bulldog]

at pass blocking- that's a $70 million offensive line that still can't run block.

You know, I have a job that's not related to football. Marv doesn't- it's his job to find out who's out there and bring them in. Other teams are doing it and doing it successfully, so obviously there are guys out there.

"There's no one better" doesn't justify giving guys like Kelsay and Price big contracts.

I can see people being upset with the run blocking to this point so far. But I would also like to point out that Buffalo's passing game sucks balls and teams are not afraid to stack the box and dare the passing game to beat them. And so far, that hasn't happened. And I'm not saying Marv isn't to blame for some of that either. The Price signing was a head scratcher for sure, as was the notion that Buffalo didn't need to address the WR position in the offseason. Basically, until Buffalo can find a QB that can strike down field, and a WR other than Evans, the running game will continue to struggle.

[TacklingDummy]

What would you consider the nucleus then?

The QB, the O-line, and the D-line.

[Mr. Pink]

Assuming that your crystal ball doesn't work any better than Marv's it's not like Levy's drafts haven't been above average.

I never wanted or liked the pick of Whitner at 8 to begin with. Look up old posts of mine. Whitner is a solid player but not a number 8 pick. I've maintained that from Day 1.

When we initially moved up in Rd1 in 06, I thought and hoped it was for Mangold. Instead it was for some bum of a DT. Again, the bum of a DT is documented on these boards from the time it happened. Look it up, if you want.

So I'm not using a crystal ball, I'm using real examples of what I woulda prefered or done back at the time.

[HHURRICANE]

We are?

What would you consider the nucleus then?

Are you trying to make my point?

That's a question for you to answer. We don't have a nucleus, which is what I was implying.

[HHURRICANE]

I never wanted or liked the pick of Whitner at 8 to begin with. Look up old posts of mine. Whitner is a solid player but not a number 8 pick. I've maintained that from Day 1.

When we initially moved up in Rd1 in 06, I thought and hoped it was for Mangold. Instead it was for some bum of a DT. Again, the bum of a DT is documented on these boards from the time it happened. Look it up, if you want.

So I'm not using a crystal ball, I'm using real examples of what I woulda prefered or done back at the time.

Well people loved the Jets last 2 drafts and they are 2-9. Ohh, Mangold plays for them along with Revis.

The funny part is that Whitner was a need and so was McCargo. They are playing well without much of a supporting cast. How many different positions has Whitner played this year becuase of injuries?

[Mr. Pink]

The QB, the O-line, and the D-line.

The QB shoulda been fixed when Marv first got here. Mularkey and TD realized that JP was a bum that's why they played musical QBs. Apparently it took a year and a half later for Marv to get the memo.

The nucleus or centerpiece of any O-line is the LT. The guy who protects the QBs blind-side....Peters was brought in by TD. Our center under TD vs our center now is laughable debate. They both suck, a big reason why we suffer in the running game. Dockery is the only upgrade on our o-line from TDs last year here.

DEs - outside of Hargrove who doesn't see the field enough because Marv overpaid for Kelsay and Schoebel are TD guys. The DTs were better under TD than now.

Marv purged the DTs we had for crap. Marv has taken til now to attempt to fix the QB position, notice attempt, because for all we know Trent could be Todd Collins and that's not an upgrade over JP. And an o-line with one upgrade and 3 equal replacements along with the TD cornerstone LT.

So it's safe to say that our nucleus is in the same if not worse shape today than it was the day TD was fired.

[justasportsfan]

The QB shoulda been fixed when Marv first got here. Mularkey and TD realized that JP was a bum that's why they played musical QBs. Apparently it took a year and a half later for Marv to get the memo..
who's you're source? Moran?

[Mr. Pink]

Well people loved the Jets last 2 drafts and they are 2-9. Ohh, Mangold plays for them along with Revis.

The funny part is that Whitner was a need and so was McCargo. They are playing well without much of a supporting cast. How many different positions has Whitner played this year becuase of injuries?


What's better a pass rusher that collapses the pocket or a safety that has shown ZERO playmaking ability thus far?

What's better a safety like Lance Schulters or Donte Whitner?

What's better Mangold at C or Fowler?

What's better Bunkley or McCargo?

There is absolutely no way you can say that the route we went is better than the alternative. An alternative that was financially and realistically possible.

[Mr. Pink]

who's you're source? Moran?


The source is the fact that JP got pulled not once, but twice for a BUM named Holcomb. The fact that magically Losman was hurt in the beginning of the NE game - played that entire game, then was done for the year.

So I would say my source was TD and Mularkey.

obviously they didn't like what they saw in him or else he wouldn't have been yanked. obviously moulds saw that he was crap or he wouldn't have been vocal about it, as well as several other veterans on this team.

[justasportsfan]

The source is the fact that JP got pulled not once, but twice for a BUM named Holcomb. The fact that magically Losman was hurt in the beginning of the NE game - played that entire game, then was done for the year.

So I would say my source was TD and Mularkey.

obviously they didn't like what they saw in him or else he wouldn't have been yanked. obviously moulds saw that he was crap or he wouldn't have been vocal about it, as well as several other veterans on this team.


Funny, TD and Moolarkey drafted JP and yet they think he's a bum. So my source is TD and MUlarkey. My sources are better ;)


I wonder if MArv thinks Whitner or MAcCargo are BUMS.

There was a thread here where one of the posters met Mularkey . He asked why they benched JP, according to him Mularkey said it wasn't his decision. I don't know if that's true but you are making assumptions. Back it up with facts ot you're just finding ways to bash JP with no basis other than what you think happened.


JUst because a player liike Moulds prefers a qb doesn't mean they are bums. Maybe they aren't ready since JP was practically a rookie.

By your logic does Royals, Evans and Whitner think Trent is a bum? no.

[TacklingDummy]

I wonder if MArv thinks Whitner or MAcCargo are BUMS.



FTY didn't say Whitner was a bum. Infact he said "Whitner is a solid player but not a number 8 pick." And this poster agrees.

[justasportsfan]

FTY didn't say Whitner was a bum. Infact he said "Whitner is a solid player but not a number 8 pick." And this poster agrees.


You should've stayed banned. ;) I didn't say FTY said that either. Keep up.

[HHURRICANE]

What's better a pass rusher that collapses the pocket or a safety that has shown ZERO playmaking ability thus far?

What's better a safety like Lance Schulters or Donte Whitner?

What's better Mangold at C or Fowler?

What's better Bunkley or McCargo?

There is absolutely no way you can say that the route we went is better than the alternative. An alternative that was financially and realistically possible.

This is like asking if you like chocolate or vanilla?

The reality is that Marv is doing a good job.

With that said, next year is a make or break year for him, Jauron, and ownership. I'm not expecting a Superbowl but defiantely a playoff birth.

[TacklingDummy]

You should've stayed banned. ;) I didn't say FTY said that either. Keep up.

Banned? I left on my own accord. I couldn't stay away with how bad JP played for 2 weeks.

[OpIv37]

The best thing for any secondary is a consistent pass rush.

true.... but Marv brought in Tripplett, re-signed Anderson, drafted McCargo, drafted Williams, re-signed Kelsay, re-signed Denney and re-signed Schobel and traded for Hargrove.

Pretty much our entire DL are Marv guys.

[justasportsfan]

Banned? I left on my own accord. I couldn't stay away with how bad JP played for 2 weeks.
exactly. self imposed ban.

[TacklingDummy]

With that said, next year is a make or break year for him, Jauron, and ownership. I'm not expecting a Superbowl but defiantely a playoff birth.

The Bills won't be making the playoffs next year unless they land Kent Hull, Bruce Smith, Pat Williams, and James Lofton in this years draft.

[OpIv37]

I can see people being upset with the run blocking to this point so far. But I would also like to point out that Buffalo's passing game sucks balls and teams are not afraid to stack the box and dare the passing game to beat them. And so far, that hasn't happened. And I'm not saying Marv isn't to blame for some of that either. The Price signing was a head scratcher for sure, as was the notion that Buffalo didn't need to address the WR position in the offseason. Basically, until Buffalo can find a QB that can strike down field, and a WR other than Evans, the running game will continue to struggle.

I said this in another thread but it's worth repeating: it's one big vicious cycle.

We're trying to evaluate a QB with no receivers and no run game and we're trying to evaluate WR's with no QB and no run game and we're trying to evaluate a run game with no passing threat and we're trying to evaluate an OC with all of the above problems.

So, what's the source of this mess? It could be any of the above or all of the above. It's pretty clear that QB is a problem, but all the other problems feed into each other so who really knows? It's the proverbial "chicken or the egg" problem.

[EDS]

The QB, the O-line, and the D-line.


Um, all three stink for the Bills.

[TacklingDummy]

true.... but Marv brought in Tripplett, re-signed Anderson, drafted McCargo, drafted Williams, re-signed Kelsay, re-signed Denney and re-signed Schobel and traded for Hargrove.

Pretty much our entire DL are Marv guys.

What DE and DT were out there that he could have signed?

I've said many times that they should have traded Schobel to the Redskins for the 6th pick last year. I don't care for him at all. Garbage time stats. do not impress me. I don't recall any game changing plays he has made.

He's good but he is no Freeney, Smith, Peppers etc...

[TacklingDummy]

Um, all three stink for the Bills.

And that would be why the Bills stink. :up:

[EDS]

And that would be why the Bills stink. :up:

Agreed.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

While it is true that Marv has made some good personnel decisions, the plain fact is that he has made some bad decisions as well.

There have been players that he could have made a play for and did not.

Like it or not, failure to identify key free agents that fit your budget is a big part of the GM job.....and he has not excelled in that area. Yes, he did grab some quality o-linemen, but otherwise not so great. I do like his drafts though, and another thing that is interesting is that when there isn't as much competition, his free agent signings are relatively solid.....look at who came in to patch together a defense for us this year...most of them have been fairly good performers.
but you can't build a winner by the draft alone.

[Mr. Pink]

Funny, TD and Moolarkey drafted JP and yet they think he's a bum. So my source is TD and MUlarkey. My sources are better ;)


I wonder if MArv thinks Whitner or MAcCargo are BUMS.


McCargo is a bum, whether Levy realizes it or not is another story entirely.

Levy realized Pennington was a bum, hence he's gone and his replacement was a guy who gave up around 12 sacks last year. I will admit though he's played better than he did last year in Oakland but not that much better than Pennington.

Just because you draft someone doesn't mean you don't realize the pick was a bust soon after. I can name plenty of QBs that have fit this, as well as other positions from Rd1. Dan McGwire, Jim Druckenmiller, Craig Powell, Curtis Enis.

Plenty of teams draft bums, and move on. It's more than apparent now that TD/Mularkey tried to move on. Marv didn't get the memo and set us back another year - at least.

[justasportsfan]

McCargo is a bum, whether Levy realizes it or not is another story entirely..but whether the guy who drafted him thinks that is another thing.



Levy realized Pennington was a bum, hence he's gone and his replacement was a guy who gave up around 12 sacks last year. I will admit though he's played better than he did last year in Oakland but not that much better than Pennington.

Just because you draft someone doesn't mean you don't realize the pick was a bust soon after. I can name plenty of QBs that have fit this, as well as other positions from Rd1. Dan McGwire, Jim Druckenmiller, Craig Powell, Curtis Enis.

Plenty of teams draft bums, and move on. It's more than apparent now that TD/Mularkey tried to move on. Marv didn't get the memo and set us back another year - at least.
All assumptions.

I'm still waiting for your facts. Moran is a great source for formulating an opinion.

[Mr. Pink]

What DE and DT were out there that he could have signed?

I've said many times that they should have traded Schobel to the Redskins for the 6th pick last year. I don't care for him at all. Garbage time stats. do not impress me. I don't recall any game changing plays he has made.

He's good but he is no Freeney, Smith, Peppers etc...

Aaron Kampman, John Abraham, Robert Mathis were available in 2006. Any of those 3 would be making the same as Schoebel now, and all 3 are better than Schoebel. 2007 Leonard Little-Justin Smith...again same price as Schoebel and better.

Ryan Pickett at DT was talked about on here.

[Mr. Pink]

but whether the guy who drafted him thinks that is another thing.



All assumptions.

I'm still waiting for your facts. Moran is a great source for formulating an opinion.

Assumptions? It's not hard to deduce that they had so little faith in Losman winning games they yanked him in favor of a career backup/journeyman.

People talk about the fact that Mike Williams set this franchise back years? No. JP Losman set this franchise back years. Giving up multiple draft picks to get a guy who never amounted to anything more than a hill of beans.

Drew Bledsoe blasting "the kid" in 2005 turned out to be 100% accurate.

Or is that another assumption?

[justasportsfan]

Assumptions? It's not hard to deduce that they had so little faith in Losman winning games they yanked him in favor of a career backup/journeyman.

People talk about the fact that Mike Williams set this franchise back years? No. JP Losman set this franchise back years. Giving up multiple draft picks to get a guy who never amounted to anything more than a hill of beans.

Drew Bledsoe blasting "the kid" in 2005 turned out to be 100% accurate.

Or is that another assumption?Still assumptions. Did you read what Mortensen said. With him being a TD crony, I can assume he thinks JP still has what it takes. See I can make assumptions too. ;)

TD got rid of PAt WIlliams. Pat was a BUM too. Not.

[TacklingDummy]

TD got rid of PAt WIlliams. Pat was a BUM too. Not.

The one and only player the Bills got rid of that I wish they would have kept.

I think that says alot about the talent the Bills have let go.

[justasportsfan]

The one and only player the Bills got rid of that I wish they would have kept.

I think that says alot about the talent the Bills have let go.
TD knew Pat was a bum. ASk FuntimesY

[TacklingDummy]

TD knew Pat was a bum. ASk FuntimesY

You ever wonder how you get under the skin of other posters? :bad:

[justasportsfan]

You ever wonder how you get under the skin of other posters? :bad:


It comes naturally for me. How about you? :D

[Mr. Pink]

TD knew Pat was a bum. ASk FuntimesY

I know you're a bum too...so touche :rofl:

[YardRat]

Some of you people act like Marv and Polian walked into OBD and all of a sudden the team went from cellar-dwellars to Super Bowl contenders overnight.

I hate to break it to you, but it took until the third year of Levy's HC stint for the team to even break the .500 mark, and five to reach the conference championship game/Super Bowl. Not every personnel move was a success, and even the glory teams had 'holes' that 'should have been upgraded'. See Jeff Wright, Mark Kelso, etc.

Hell, as far as the Whitner pick, Marv and Polian were almost as famous for 'reaching' in the first round as they were for grabbing talent from smaller schools. See John Fina, Henry Jones, etc.

Finally, yes, they even weren't perfect in the first round and had a bust or two. See James Williams.

It takes time, and as far as the frustration with rebuilding 31 out of 32 teams every year are rebuilding to a certain point and with the changes in FA over the last 20 years even the league champion goes into the next off-season rebuilding.