JP Losman

[ghz in pittsburgh]

When JP is drafted, he’s called the one with the most upside of all QBs taken that year. The reason: his physical tools. Big arm to throw the ball to anywhere on the field. Fleet feet to get around and run. What else what a QB needs?
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That seems to be the theme of our ex-GM’s mantra: digger into the measurable stats and picking the best. Some worked (Nate Clement, Lee Evans); some don’t (Mike Williams – what a big man; Bledsoe – what an arm; Losman). I count Bledsoe as a 1<SUP>st</SUP> round because that’s what cost the Bills. McGahee is a kind of so-so guy that I don’t think fall into the bust category but nor worthy of 1<SUP>st</SUP> rounder category. When you are batting .400 for your 1<SUP>st</SUP> round draft in 5 years, you are simply not good enough to stay ahead in this league.
<o:p> </o:p>
It is interesting to note that the Jaguars changed their man-to-man scheme to more of a cover two in this Bills game. We all know cover two takes away the big plays, forcing the offense to perform consistently to score points. That’s exactly the weakness of Losman. Don’t for a second to think that Jauron doesn’t know that. He likes the cover two for that reason. The Jags allowed Losman to dink and dunk all day; they just know sooner or later, he’s going to make mistakes – lots of them.
<o:p> </o:p>
Some will say well we need a true #1 receiver to compliment Evans. We need a top 5 TE. Sure if we get all pros in every position, Losman will succeed. The trouble is that it is extremely hard to do that, especially in this cap era. It is much more difficult to find 4/5 top guys in other positions to compliment a sub par QB than finding a quality QB with 4/5 average guys in other positions.
<o:p> </o:p>
Is Edwards that quality guy? I don’t know. Nobody knows right now. But you can’t deny that as a rookie, or a guy with 4 starts or whatever the measurements you want to take, he’s way ahead of Losman in terms of development on the career path. Even at the entire NFL rookie QB level, he’s looking pretty good. The key, however, is improvement. I’m not going to the game by game detail, but I’d look for, for example, the next 5 games compared to his first 5 games to see if he repeats the mistakes he made earlier.
<o:p> </o:p>
As for Losman, I think you’ll find a market for him next spring. That second half of 2006 season is still on a lot of people’s mind. There are a lot of Tom Donahoes out there who are enamored with big armed QBs. I’d be strongly against releasing him out right.

[dannyek71]

good post. I think we learn that some guys have it, others dont. See RJ.

[justasportsfan]

Trent better improve on his deep throws or the search for Jim Kelly's replacement continues.

[Tatonka]

that is what i will be watching. will edwards show more developement from where he was after his first 4 games..

i had three complaints about edwards..

1) he needed to take deep shots - one underthrown bomb to evand in 4 games. I questioned his arm strength. But several reports say he has an true nfl arm, so if that is the case, lets see it please.
2) he threw some crucial picks that cost us points we should have put on the board or put the game in jeopardy at the end.
3) the points we put on the board were field goals far too often, as opposed to touchdowns

i am aware that some of that is dictated by the defense and the playcalling.. how much is unknown. i hope they really just let trent go.. let him play.. let him audible.. lets see what the kid is made of.

nothing would make me happier than to see him go 5-0 in the next 5 games and see us make the playoffs.. but if trent can get us to .500 and show improvement, then i would be encouraged.

i think that he needs at least the rest of this year and all of next year for us to find out what we have. I understand he is a rookie and it is tough to expect him to play like a vet right out of the gates.. but unfortuately, buffalo does not have a long window.. next year this team needs to be a strong playoff contender, or we could end up being stuck at the rebuilding blocks again (if we are not already).

assuming they trade or release losman in the offseason, we have to get a vet and hopefully another mid round prospect.

i will say that i hope they keep losman.. while he has proven that he is not a good starter, i think he could have some value for us as a good back up.. he is the type of qb that could come in and do what he did against the jets if we needed him.

[trapezeus]

that is what i will be watching. will edwards show more developement from where he was after his first 4 games..

i had three complaints about edwards..

1) he needed to take deep shots - one underthrown bomb to evand in 4 games. I questioned his arm strength. But several reports say he has an true nfl arm, so if that is the case, lets see it please.
2) he threw some crucial picks that cost us points we should have put on the board or put the game in jeopardy at the end.
3) the points we put on the board were field goals far too often, as opposed to touchdowns



Not looking to fight with you, but of your three complaints.

1. his arm is adequate. if people are taking away the deep ball, why force the issue. Also please note the ravens game where he went deep to evans and evans bobbled a nicely thrown ball in stride. Also note JP has thrown short on several of his deep passes this year and has overthrown some deep balls. Going deep is a matter of accuracy, not how far you can throw it.
2. JP has thrown more picks and has hurt us against a winless dolphin team, a pats team that could of at least seen a quarter of competitiveness from us, and the jags game. i'm willing to switch to someone who does the same thing but can learn
3. Putting up FG is significantly better than going 3 and out and putting us behind. I'll take the Field goals as an appetizer and hope that we are working our way up to a main dish TD delight.

[Mr. Pink]

We learned that big arm QBs with no football knowledge don't succeed.

We shoulda learned that long ago from the Jeff George's, Akili Smith's and Joey Harrington's of the world.

[Mahdi]

When JP is drafted, he’s called the one with the most upside of all QBs taken that year. The reason: his physical tools. Big arm to throw the ball to anywhere on the field. Fleet feet to get around and run. What else what a QB needs?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
That seems to be the theme of our ex-GM’s mantra: digger into the measurable stats and picking the best. Some worked (Nate Clement, Lee Evans); some don’t (Mike Williams – what a big man; Bledsoe – what an arm; Losman). I count Bledsoe as a 1<SUP>st</SUP> round because that’s what cost the Bills. McGahee is a kind of so-so guy that I don’t think fall into the bust category but nor worthy of 1<SUP>st</SUP> rounder category. When you are batting .400 for your 1<SUP>st</SUP> round draft in 5 years, you are simply not good enough to stay ahead in this league.
<o:p> </o:p>
It is interesting to note that the Jaguars changed their man-to-man scheme to more of a cover two in this Bills game. We all know cover two takes away the big plays, forcing the offense to perform consistently to score points. That’s exactly the weakness of Losman. Don’t for a second to think that Jauron doesn’t know that. He likes the cover two for that reason. The Jags allowed Losman to dink and dunk all day; they just know sooner or later, he’s going to make mistakes – lots of them.
<o:p> </o:p>
Some will say well we need a true #1 receiver to compliment Evans. We need a top 5 TE. Sure if we get all pros in every position, Losman will succeed. The trouble is that it is extremely hard to do that, especially in this cap era. It is much more difficult to find 4/5 top guys in other positions to compliment a sub par QB than finding a quality QB with 4/5 average guys in other positions.
<o:p> </o:p>
Is Edwards that quality guy? I don’t know. Nobody knows right now. But you can’t deny that as a rookie, or a guy with 4 starts or whatever the measurements you want to take, he’s way ahead of Losman in terms of development on the career path. Even at the entire NFL rookie QB level, he’s looking pretty good. The key, however, is improvement. I’m not going to the game by game detail, but I’d look for, for example, the next 5 games compared to his first 5 games to see if he repeats the mistakes he made earlier.
<o:p> </o:p>
As for Losman, I think you’ll find a market for him next spring. That second half of 2006 season is still on a lot of people’s mind. There are a lot of Tom Donahoes out there who are enamored with big armed QBs. I’d be strongly against releasing him out right.
We learned that you cant expect a QB to perform with an empty cupboard.

1) Only this year did JP have a competent OL and they are still not better than average, mostly due to the fact that there are 3 new starters.

2) No size at all as a receiving threat.

3) Although the RB play has improved this year our run blocking has kept our running game from being a major threat.

Im not saying this to defend JP. Im saying this because I dont expect good numbers from a Bills QB till these issues are sorted. And you can say that because of the cap era its not possible to have great players at every position and thats certainly true but our Offense is missing way too much to function.

I bet no one can name one offense in the NFL that has a successful QB who is also missing all the things we are missing.

Namely....WR2, TE, consistent run blocking,

[The Answer]

What we learned? - Don't waste multiple draft picks on 'project' QB's from lesser Division 1 programs like Tulane.

Also if Tom Donahoe ever has a job in this league again something is seriously wrong.

~The Answer

[Tatonka]

Not looking to fight with you, but of your three complaints.

1. his arm is adequate. if people are taking away the deep ball, why force the issue. Also please note the ravens game where he went deep to evans and evans bobbled a nicely thrown ball in stride. Also note JP has thrown short on several of his deep passes this year and has overthrown some deep balls. Going deep is a matter of accuracy, not how far you can throw it.
2. JP has thrown more picks and has hurt us against a winless dolphin team, a pats team that could of at least seen a quarter of competitiveness from us, and the jags game. i'm willing to switch to someone who does the same thing but can learn
3. Putting up FG is significantly better than going 3 and out and putting us behind. I'll take the Field goals as an appetizer and hope that we are working our way up to a main dish TD delight.

im not trying to compair TE to JP at this point.. i am simply evaluating TE and what we need from him to win games... TE is the starter.. there is no question.. JP has plenty of things that he didnt do well and in the end, it cost him the starting job.. s

1. i dont know that TE's arm is adequate, but i have seen many write ups that support that it is.. so that is fine.. but the pass to evans did not hit him in stride.. not to disect his one deep pass.. but in my opinion, it wasnt a good throw.. but he needs to do more it, regardless... every qb has bad throws.. trent just needs to air it out more.
2. trents pick against the cowboys cost us the game.. it cost us the field goal we should have had and a result was that we lost.. the d saved him against the jets and ravens.
3. putting up field goals, as an nfl starting qb, will normally lose you games.. if your in position to get a td in the redzone, and you get a field goal.. consistently, then you lose.

thats all im saying.. i hope he can be a great qb.. god knows the team hasnt had one since kelly.. but those were my complaints at this point.. 4 games in of a rookie qb.. it is a good thing that there are limited complaints so far.. i like his "poise".. i like how he moves in the pocket.. i like his accuracy.. his picks were poor decisions.. not poor throws.. i like how he handles himself on the field and with the media.

i hope he works out.

[Jan Reimers]

What we learned?

Don't let a narcissistic, megalomaniac like Tom Donahoe run your draft. He also brought us Willis McGahee (when we already had the same runner - Travis Henry) and the immortal Mike Williams.

[HHURRICANE]

Trent better improve on his deep throws or the search for Jim Kelly's replacement continues.

This is the type of post that should be tossed for no factual basis.

Trent has a strong arm. He proved it in camp and pre-season. His scouting report confirms this and besides you everyone in the NFL knows this.

He admitted that he hasn't developed the confidence yet in the big ball and said it was "a function of experience."

Geez, enough with the deep throw crap.

[justasportsfan]

This is the type of post that should be tossed for no factual basis.

Trent has a strong arm. He proved it in camp and pre-season. His scouting report confirms this and besides you everyone in the NFL knows this.

He admitted that he hasn't developed the confidence yet in the big ball and said it was "a function of experience."

Geez, enough with the deep throw crap.

Camp? Rob Johnson was a camp probowler. IT's regular games that I care about. Rob also had a strong arm.

[deepslant]

Too minimize discension in the locker room (aka Evans) the Bills need to push JP out the door. JP can't stay unless he's our #1 next year. That's not happening unless TE gets hurt and JP explodes (vs recent imploding).

Marv will shop JP just before the draft. His strong arm will get him a backup role somewhere (would you rather have JP or Nall?).

[colin]

the answer had the answer -- if you draft a qb you need a guy who is ready or close to ready now.

jp was a raw goof coming out of school, with a poor work ethic and mixed reviews at best. even with special attention from sam wyche for months and a solid running game w mcgahee he came out sucking in his first year.

and his second year.

and his third year.

brains and accuracy, not an arm, is like speed for a db -- the main driver of success.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

We learned that big arm QBs with no football knowledge don't succeed.

We shoulda learned that long ago from the Jeff George's, Akili Smith's and Joey Harrington's of the world.
100% agree.

[Mahdi]

This is the type of post that should be tossed for no factual basis.

Trent has a strong arm. He proved it in camp and pre-season. His scouting report confirms this and besides you everyone in the NFL knows this.

He admitted that he hasn't developed the confidence yet in the big ball and said it was "a function of experience."

Geez, enough with the deep throw crap.
Im sorry but although Edwards has some great qualities the criticism of him that he doesnt make the tough throws is valid. He has not made any throws in pre-season or in the regular season that prove otherwise and until he does that criticism will remain valid. Hopefully he does though otherwise we will be drafting QB with our first pick.

[deepslant]

Im sorry but although Edwards has some great qualities the criticism of him that he doesnt make the tough throws is valid. He has not made any throws in pre-season or in the regular season that prove otherwise and until he does that criticism will remain valid. Hopefully he does though otherwise we will be drafting QB with our first pick.
LOL Marv won't waste a single pick on qb this year. Bank on it. Too many other needs. He will get TE's camp comp from FA. Done deal!

[justasportsfan]

LOL Marv won't waste a single pick on qb this year. Bank on it. Too many other needs. He will get TE's camp comp from FA. Done deal!
Really? He's so sold on Trent and Hamdan as our Kelly and Reich?

[Mahdi]

LOL Marv won't waste a single pick on qb this year. Bank on it. Too many other needs. He will get TE's camp comp from FA. Done deal!
Well if TE doesnt show ability then a QB will be a must. That or signing Derek Anderson or McNabb which I highly doubt. Although Anderson would be perfect for buffalo.

TE doesnt have to win a single game IMO to be the starter next year, if he proves he can make all the throws, that combined with his smarts will be good enough.

[deepslant]

Really? He's so sold on Trent and Hamdan as our Kelly and Reich?
Yep. Ralphie loves'em both.

[deepslant]

Well if TE doesnt show ability then a QB will be a must. That or signing Derek Anderson or McNabb which I highly doubt. Although Anderson would be perfect for buffalo.

TE doesnt have to win a single game IMO to be the starter next year, if he proves he can make all the throws, that combined with his smarts will be good enough.
Like your thoughts here. TE needs to win a few, especially the fish, or the fans will give up on him too. Ya, making the throws is paramount.

[HAMMER]

Well if TE doesnt show ability then a QB will be a must. That or signing Derek Anderson or McNabb which I highly doubt. Although Anderson would be perfect for buffalo.

TE doesnt have to win a single game IMO to be the starter next year, if he proves he can make all the throws, that combined with his smarts will be good enough.

Edwards has already shown ability.

[Mahdi]

Edwards has already shown ability.
he's shown some abilities... im talking about seeing a glimpse of all the abilities required to be an NFL starting QB.

[justasportsfan]

Edwards has already shown ability.
He has. The only thing he needs to do is do what was asked of JP. Show consistency.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

He has. The only thing he needs to do is do what was asked of JP. Show consistency.
Thats the magic word right there, consistency

[Albany,n.y.]

Tom Donahoe drafted Kordell Stewart & J.P. Losman as his QBs of the future. Any team that would hire Donahoe should expect him to blow it on a QB of the future again.

[Ed]

[QUOTE=ghz in pittsburgh]
Some will say well we need a true #1 receiver to compliment Evans. We need a top 5 TE. Sure if we get all pros in every position, Losman will succeed. The trouble is that it is extremely hard to do that, especially in this cap era. It is much more difficult to find 4/5 top guys in other positions to compliment a sub par QB than finding a quality QB with 4/5 average guys in other positions.
<o:p>

Good post, but I don't know if I would competely agree with the above statement. I think finding a quality qb is the biggest challenge an NFL franchise faces. Lets be honest, there just aren't enough good ones to go around. The really good ones never make it to free agency either. Maybe once in a generation your team gets really lucky and makes a trade for a young Brett Favre, but that' really rare. So that leaves the draft, which is always a crap shoot and some draft classes don't produce any good qb's.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Donahoe is gone, but I've always thought it unfair to critisize his trading for Bledsoe or drafting Losman. Some fans are really hard on him for both moves, but none can ever say what would have been a better option even with hindsight being 20/20.

When we traded for Bledsoe none of the qb's available were worth beans or amounted to anything. Even if we had a shot at drafting Carr or Harrington, both would have been busts. We could have grabbed Ramsey, but he would have been a bust too. So yeah, Bledsoe didn't work out, but were there any other options that could have worked out?

When we drafted Losman, what were are other options? We never had a shot at Eli or Rivers, and even if we did, would we be better off? Donahoe tried to trade up to grab Roethlisberger, but no one would budge. Even if we had landed Big Ben somehow, would he have had the same success with the Bills that he's had in Pitt or would we be calling him a bust too? He wasn't even good last year, and his team carried him during the SB year.

So looking back, have there really been a lot of good qb options that the Bills have just missed out on? I don't know, but I think when it comes to qb's some teams just get stuck in a situation where it's not about making a wrong move or a bad move, there just weren't any good moves to make.

[acehole]

This is a great piont.

Question for all.

If Trent does pan out and becomes the brady montanna you guys say he is.

Why on gods green earth would he stay here?

Tom Brady gets randy moss and we get Justin Jenkins....

If I am Trent and I prove I can do it ..it is San Fran and $$ for me....



[QUOTE=ghz in pittsburgh]
Some will say well we need a true #1 receiver to compliment Evans. We need a top 5 TE. Sure if we get all pros in every position, Losman will succeed. The trouble is that it is extremely hard to do that, especially in this cap era. It is much more difficult to find 4/5 top guys in other positions to compliment a sub par QB than finding a quality QB with 4/5 average guys in other positions.
<o:p>

Good post, but I don't know if I would competely agree with the above statement. I think finding a quality qb is the biggest challenge an NFL franchise faces. Lets be honest, there just aren't enough good ones to go around. The really good ones never make it to free agency either. Maybe once in a generation your team gets really lucky and makes a trade for a young Brett Favre, but that' really rare. So that leaves the draft, which is always a crap shoot and some draft classes don't produce any good qb's.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Donahoe is gone, but I've always thought it unfair to critisize his trading for Bledsoe or drafting Losman. Some fans are really hard on him for both moves, but none can ever say what would have been a better option even with hindsight being 20/20.

When we traded for Bledsoe none of the qb's available were worth beans or amounted to anything. Even if we had a shot at drafting Carr or Harrington, both would have been busts. We could have grabbed Ramsey, but he would have been a bust too. So yeah, Bledsoe didn't work out, but were there any other options that could have worked out?

When we drafted Losman, what were are other options? We never had a shot at Eli or Rivers, and even if we did, would we be better off? Donahoe tried to trade up to grab Roethlisberger, but no one would budge. Even if we had landed Big Ben somehow, would he have had the same success with the Bills that he's had in Pitt or would we be calling him a bust too? He wasn't even good last year, and his team carried him during the SB year.

So looking back, have there really been a lot of good qb options that the Bills have just missed out on? I don't know, but I think when it comes to qb's some teams just get stuck in a situation where it's not about making a wrong move or a bad move, there just weren't any good moves to make.