this is not a jp support thread it's just reality

[cablesabres68]

I know i don't make to many posts but when i make a post i try to make it count. now for the past few weeks all you bills fans on here having been asking for edwards because losman can't read defenses or he can't throw the short pass or he can't do this or he can't do that. Well let me let u in on a little secret there was a player on the bills from 1986-1996 who could not read defeses had trouble throwing the short passes but had the heart of a lion. his name was JIM KELLY. the bills then brought in Ted Marchibroda to engineer an offense to suit kelly's talents which was famously known as the K-Gun. Now i am not saying Losman is Kelly reincarnated i am just saying if we had a better coaching staff who would not try to force an offense on losman but would create an ofense better suited for him he would be a better quarterback. now because of having bad coaching staffs here in losmans tenure we will not get to see him have the success that he should have had here. i really hope that he goes to a team where they create an offense suited for him and has great success because it is becoming heart breaking to be a bills fan more now than when norwood missed that kick wide right.

[Mitchy moo]

I know i don't make to many posts but when i make a post i try to make it count. now for the past few weeks all you bills fans on here having been asking for edwards because losman can't read defenses or he can't throw the short pass or he can't do this or he can't do that. Well let me let u in on a little secret there was a player on the bills from 1986-1996 who could not read defeses had trouble throwing the short passes but had the heart of a lion. his name was JIM KELLY. the bills then brought in Ted Marchibroda to engineer an offense to suit kelly's talents which was famously known as the K-Gun. Now i am not saying Losman is Kelly reincarnated i am just saying if we had a better coaching staff who would not try to force an offense on losman but would create an ofense better suited for him he would be a better quarterback. now because of having bad coaching staffs here in losmans tenure we will not get to see him have the success that he should have had here. i really hope that he goes to a team where they create an offense suited for him and has great success because it is becoming heart breaking to be a bills fan more now than when norwood missed that kick wide right.

JP couldn't clean gum off Kelly's shoes. Kelly's "linebacker mentality" was to stand in there and deliver, JP's is to run and gun. Kelly would make adjustments during the game, change the play at at the line himself and run a effective no huddle. JP cannot be trusted to call anything but his parents.

I still wish JP nothing but the best.

[cablesabres68]

it took great coaching to get kelly to where he was he had the tools and the talent but it was raw talent so it had to be molded and not a single coach tried to do that with JP they basically said this is the offense we are running and tried to make jp do something that are not to his strengths.



edited for TOS.

[Mitchy moo]

this is the offense we are running and tried to make jp do something that are not to his strengths.

Like passing accurately, reading defenses & checking down receivers?

[cablesabres68]

Like passing accurately, reading defenses & checking down receivers?

the first and third one are basic offensive principles not the offense we are running and the second one is something that is taught by your quaterbacks coach. and if you see that the quaterback is struggling reading defenses you create plays and put players in a position to help your quaterback be succesful not go out and read what each player on the defense is going to do and then be forced to make an errandt throw causing an incompletion or worse. and like i said in my first post kelly struggled reading defenses to that is why the K-Gun was an offense taylored for him and that is why he flourished in it.

[Mitchy moo]

the first and third one are basic offensive principles not the offense we are running and the second one is something that is taught by your quaterbacks coach. and if you see that the quaterback is struggling reading defenses you create plays and put players in a position to help your quaterback be succesful not go out and read what each player on the defense is going to do and then be forced to make an errandt throw causing an incompletion or worse. and like i said in my first post kelly struggled reading defenses to that is why the K-Gun was an offense taylored for him and that is why he flourished in it.

:drunks:, 10-21 starting record & 2 sets of coaches, try again.

[cablesabres68]

the record doesn't matter you can't take a quaterback with raw talent not try to mold him teach him work on things with him to get things right throw him out there and have him try to do the same things over and over again. Ben Franklin defined insanity as trying to do the same things over and expecting different results. so what does our coaching staff do oh here jp we are gonna keep running the same exact offense over and over again not make changes to help you and expect you to have a different outcome. skooby lets be smart about this our coaching staff might be book smart but if they keep trying to do the same things over and over again expecting different results they are insanely stupid and it wasn't just the dick juron regime it was mularky's also

[Mr. Pink]

So then Kelly struggled? When?

He lit up college and he lit up the USFL. He came into the NFL throwing for over 3000 yards, 22 tds to 17 int's and an 83.3 rating. He also completed 59.4% of his passes. That was in 85. The K-Gun offense didn't come into fruition until the 1990 season.

So before you degrade other posters, at least come with proper knowledge and factual points.

[Typ0]

This is it folks. It's like when you fumigate the house and those last rats are running from the walls...

[YardRat]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him hit the river with a forward pass.

[Mitchy moo]

This is it folks. It's like when you fumigate the house and those last rats are running from the walls...

You hit the nail on the head here.

[mchurchfie]

but had the heart of a lion. his name was JIM KELLY.
Kelly = :10:
JP = :1:
Worst thread of the day. JP doesn't even belong in the same paragraph with Kelly.

[SquishDaFish]

Enough of the QB threads now its OVER

[jmb1099]

It could very well be that better coaching will help Losman, but his career here is over. I really wanted him to succeed, and he showed flashes, but he just couldn't put anything together with any consistency. Maybe it was the coaching debacle, maybe he just doesn't have a head for the game. Whatever the case he is all but done here and its time for the Bills to move forward. I wish Losman nothing but the best, he trully understood the off-field part of being a high profile sports personality, but this year has been a major disappointment on field.

[patmoran2006]

In all due respect, you must be out of your mind.

Jim Kelly couldn't read defenses? LOL that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Jim Kelly CALLED HIS OWN PLAYS based on the defense!!! He's one of the few QB's ever on any team to totally have the responsibility of calling the plays. So basically, he was the unofficial offensive coordinator of this team.. But he didn't read defenses???

WOW

[mybills]

I just hope they don't screw with Trent by not grooming him the right way. :ill:
I've always liked both QB's.

[Mitchy moo]

In all due respect, you must be out of your mind.

Jim Kelly couldn't read defenses? LOL that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Jim Kelly CALLED HIS OWN PLAYS based on the defense!!! He's one of the few QB's ever on any team to totally have the responsibility of calling the plays. So basically, he was the unofficial offensive coordinator of this team.. But he didn't read defenses???

WOW

I read his posts and I almost fell out of bed, I am like whoa way out in left field is calling.

[Luisito23]

when i make a post i try to make it count.



Better try again bro...



GO BILLS!!!!!!!

[Typ0]

I just hope they don't screw with Trent by not grooming him the right way. :ill:
I've always liked both QB's.

even if the stars don't align for TE he's playing with the big boys now and it's time for him to be responsible for himself.

[mybills]

Good coaching will only help, though.

[mybills]

Personally, I'm sick of all the musical QB crap. It's been going on for years and it's enough to make you puke. I soooooooo hope he's the one to help us to the S.B., but I've said that too many times before. :cynic:

[Typ0]

Personally, I'm sick of all the musical QB crap. It's been going on for years and it's enough to make you puke. I soooooooo hope he's the one to help us to the S.B., but I've said that too many times before. :cynic:


if you look around it happens on a lot of teams until they find their Carson Palmers, Brett Favres, Tom Brady's, etc. As much as it's said the QB position is not overrated it can make or break a season or an entire organization and QBs are not that easy to come by especially when you have Tom Donaschmuck drafting for you.

[mybills]

I don't think it's overrated at all, I also don't think it's always the most important. I'll give
it a good % player wise, but they aren't the only one out on the field. Then there's the coaching. :ill:

[Typ0]

I don't think it's overrated at all, I also don't think it's the most important. I'll give
it a good % player wise, but they aren't the only one out on the field. Then there's the coaching. :ill:

it's not most important? then which position on the field is more important?

[mybills]

Add the word "always". Teams can win without good QB's. So it's not always the most important.

[PromoTheRobot]

I know i don't make to many posts but when i make a post i try to make it count. now for the past few weeks all you bills fans on here having been asking for edwards because losman can't read defenses or he can't throw the short pass or he can't do this or he can't do that. Well let me let u in on a little secret there was a player on the bills from 1986-1996 who could not read defeses had trouble throwing the short passes but had the heart of a lion. his name was JIM KELLY. the bills then brought in Ted Marchibroda to engineer an offense to suit kelly's talents which was famously known as the K-Gun. Now i am not saying Losman is Kelly reincarnated i am just saying if we had a better coaching staff who would not try to force an offense on losman but would create an ofense better suited for him he would be a better quarterback. now because of having bad coaching staffs here in losmans tenure we will not get to see him have the success that he should have had here. i really hope that he goes to a team where they create an offense suited for him and has great success because it is becoming heart breaking to be a bills fan more now than when norwood missed that kick wide right.

What is reality?

PTR

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

I know i don't make to many posts but when i make a post i try to make it count. now for the past few weeks all you bills fans on here having been asking for edwards because losman can't read defenses or he can't throw the short pass or he can't do this or he can't do that. Well let me let u in on a little secret there was a player on the bills from 1986-1996 who could not read defeses had trouble throwing the short passes but had the heart of a lion. his name was JIM KELLY. the bills then brought in Ted Marchibroda to engineer an offense to suit kelly's talents which was famously known as the K-Gun. Now i am not saying Losman is Kelly reincarnated i am just saying if we had a better coaching staff who would not try to force an offense on losman but would create an ofense better suited for him he would be a better quarterback. now because of having bad coaching staffs here in losmans tenure we will not get to see him have the success that he should have had here. i really hope that he goes to a team where they create an offense suited for him and has great success because it is becoming heart breaking to be a bills fan more now than when norwood missed that kick wide right.
The QB is the most important part of a team. The Bills went from 4-12 in 1986 ( Kelly's first year as starter ) to 12-4 two years later. Kelly inherited a 2-14 team, Losman inherited a 9-7 team. Obviously Kelly was doing something right to turn that team around. Losman didn't. I still can't figure out why everytime a young QB is struggling real bad, people always will compare his situation to somebody who ended up being great. LOSMAN AND KELLY ARE NOTHING ALIKE. Some people compare him to Kelly but you could just as easliy compare him to Rob Johnson. They are more alike.

[the REAL Rudeman]

And I'll compare JP and RJ to surfer dudes with no brains.

[justasportsfan]

Kelly inherited a 2-14 team, Losman inherited a 9-7 team. Obviously Kelly was doing something right to turn that team around. Losman didn't. .

You mean Polian turned that team around from top to bottom. JP inherited Bennie Anderson and Willis. HIs best OL was an undrafted TE. Moolarkey vs. MArv. Cmon.

Apples and oranges.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

You mean Polian turned that team around from top to bottom. JP inherited Bennie Anderson and Willis. HIs best OL was an undrafted TE. Moolarkey vs. MArv. Cmon.

Apples and oranges.
An we havent upgraded our line? Our pass blocking is very good right now. Losman has played as bad this year as he did his rookie year with an ugraded line. There is no excuse for him this year. This is the year he is supposed to turn the corner.

[justasportsfan]

An we havent upgraded our line? Our pass blocking is very good right now. Losman has played as bad this year as he did his rookie year with an ugraded line. There is no excuse for him this year. This is the year he is supposed to turn the corner.
we're still ranked at the bottom of the league regardless of who's the qb + OL.

You can't fault JP for our crappiness and give props to Kelly for turning the team around. Kelly wouldn't be turning anything around without the supporting cast he had. It takes more than just the qb to turn around a team.

Lets not forget along with Kelly was Bruce and co. Kelly just had a better team all around. Apples and oranges.

I agree. Theres no excuses for JP. He's done here. He's not the only reason we stink like Kelly is not the only reason for his team being successful.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

we're still ranked at the bottom of the league regardless of who's the qb + OL.

You can't fault JP for our crappiness and give props to Kelly for turning the team around. Kelly wouldn't be turning anything around without the supporting cast he had. It takes more than just the qb to turn around a team.

Lets not forget along with Kelly was Bruce and co. Kelly just had a better team all around. Apples and oranges.

I agree. Theres no excuses for him. He's done here. He's not the only reason we stink like Kelly is not the only reason for his team being successful.
I firmly believe one player can turn a team around. We have seen it before. The Pats were 0-2 with Bledsoe, going no where. 5-11 a year before. Tom Brady steps in and all of a sudden then win a Super Bowl. Look a Derek Anderson, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo etc... They turned their teams around almost instantly. I know Losman isn't the only reason we are bad or Jim Kelly is the only reason they became good. The QB is the most vital part, this is what you hear from all former coaches and players. Rich Gannon, who knows a thing or two about football, said after the Bills game against the Jags that its hard to have a good team without a consistent QB. He was talking about the Bills. Thats what Losman is, inconsistent.

[justasportsfan]

I firmly believe one player can turn a team around. .Kelly wouldn't be Kelly without Thurman, Reed, Hull, MArv, Polian,etc,etc.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

Kelly wouldn't be Kelly without Thurman, Reed, Hull, MArv, Polian,etc,etc.
True but none of those players wouldnt be them without Kelly either. The QB can make or break a team. Kelly made his team. Thats why when teams struggle, the QB's job is usually on the hot seat.
Belicheck wasn't great without Brady
Shanahan wasn't great without Elway

[TacklingDummy]

Good QBs: make the players around them better. = Kelly

Bad QBs: there is plenty of excuses why they suck. = JP

[ajsdx]

Better try again bro...



GO BILLS!!!!!!!

That's exactly what I was thinking. If you're only going to post a couple times every few months, it seems like you could put some more effort into it and/or not violate the TOS, bro.

[don137]

All I have to say is wow. How the heck can someone say Kelly could not read a defense so Marchibroda implemented a system and implied Kelly would of failed otherwise. That is one of the worst arguments in the history of Billszone. Kelly was a proven winner before he ever stepped foot in Buffalo. Great QBs are great leaders and find ways to win. Kelly won in Miami and he was very successful in the USFL.
It is not a coincidence that teams with crappy QB look so much worse then they really are and teams with a great QB look better than they really are. The perfect example is Cleveland. They opened the season with Charlie Frye at QB and were demolished by Pittsburgh and Dallas was licking their chops thinking they will get a top 3 pick next year with Cleveland's pick. They traded Frye away and next thing you know Anderson comes in and Cleveland now has a good shot at the playoffs.
I am not blaming everything on Losman but if the Bills got great play out of their QB their is no doubt this team would have a very good shot at the playoffs.

[Mitchy moo]

All I have to say is wow. How the heck can someone say Kelly could not read a defense so Marchibroda implemented a system and implied Kelly would of failed otherwise. That is one of the worst arguments in the history of Billszone. Kelly was a proven winner before he ever stepped foot in Buffalo. Great QBs are great leaders and find ways to win. Kelly won in Miami and he was very successful in the USFL.
It is not a coincidence that teams with crappy QB look so much worse then they really are and teams with a great QB look better than they really are. The perfect example is Cleveland. They opened the season with Charlie Frye at QB and were demolished by Pittsburgh and Dallas was licking their chops thinking they will get a top 3 pick next year with Cleveland's pick. They traded Frye away and next thing you know Anderson comes in and Cleveland now has a good shot at the playoffs.
I am not blaming everything on Losman but if the Bills got great play out of their QB their is no doubt this team would have a very good shot at the playoffs.

That's why trent is back in, he's 3-1 as a starter.

[justasportsfan]

Good QBs: make the players around them better. = Kelly

Bad QBs: there is plenty of excuses why they suck. = JP
I agree. That's why Flutie got benched in favor of Brees. Brees is way better than Flutie.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

All I have to say is wow. How the heck can someone say Kelly could not read a defense so Marchibroda implemented a system and implied Kelly would of failed otherwise. That is one of the worst arguments in the history of Billszone. Kelly was a proven winner before he ever stepped foot in Buffalo. Great QBs are great leaders and find ways to win. Kelly won in Miami and he was very successful in the USFL.
It is not a coincidence that teams with crappy QB look so much worse then they really are and teams with a great QB look better than they really are. The perfect example is Cleveland. They opened the season with Charlie Frye at QB and were demolished by Pittsburgh and Dallas was licking their chops thinking they will get a top 3 pick next year with Cleveland's pick. They traded Frye away and next thing you know Anderson comes in and Cleveland now has a good shot at the playoffs.
I am not blaming everything on Losman but if the Bills got great play out of their QB their is no doubt this team would have a very good shot at the playoffs.
Exactly. My earlier example of the Patriots is the same thing. They had the same exact team that Bledsoe had with Bellicheck and did nothing with them. Bellicheck was rumored to be on the hot seat. Brady steps and and everything changes.

[justasportsfan]

True
so you agree that Kelly didn't "turn the team around" by himself and Jp didn't stink the team by himself ;)

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

so you agree that Kelly didn't "turn the team around" by himself and Jp didn't stink the team by himself ;)
Wow. That is one word in the sentence. The one word does not define the whole sentence. Why didn't you put the entire sentence? Kelly was a major reason why the Bills turned it around, JP is a major reason why we haven't in turned it around.

[justasportsfan]

Wow. That is one word in the sentence. The one word does not define the whole sentence. Why didn't you put the entire sentence? Kelly was a major reason why the Bills turned it around, JP is a major reason why we haven't in turned it around.


I agree. Kelly went down Reich came in a then we beat the Oilers. What were you saying about kelly again?

You gave credit to Kelly turning the team around as if he singlehandedly turned the team around. Bruce Smith has something to say about that and he doesn't play offense.

If JP singlehandedly stunk the team up then what does that say about Trents lack of ability to score points? Is that all his fault as well ? No. The entire O stinks and it starts with the OC.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

I agree. Kelly went down Reich came in a then we beat the Oilers. What were you saying about kelly again?

You gave credit to Kelly turning the team around as if he singlehandedly turned the team around. Bruce Smith has something to say about that and he doesn't play offense.

If JP singlehandedly stunk the team up then what does that say about Trents lack of ability to score points? Is that all his fault as well ? No. The entire O stinks and it starts with the OC.
Did I say Jim Kelly was " THE " major reason or did I say Jim Kelly was " A " major reason? If I put " THE " than Im saying he single handedly turned the team around. If I put " A " then he was a major contributor. Which one did I put? Whats that say about Trent? How about he's a rookie? How many Ben Roethelisberger's are there? That should answer your question. If this was JP's first year, I wouldn't think anything of it. I would understand a rookie playing like this, not a 4th year player. By the time a QB is in his 4th year, the team needs to start relying on him to win games. Like its been said by any football person, a QB is the most important position on the team.

[justasportsfan]

Did I say Jim Kelly was " THE " major reason or did I say Jim Kelly was " A " major reason?.



The Bills went from 4-12 in 1986 ( Kelly's first year as starter ) to 12-4 two years later. Kelly inherited a 2-14 team, Losman inherited a 9-7 team. Obviously Kelly was doing something right to turn that team around. Losman didn't..
this post implies they are both solely responsible for the outcome of their team.

[Typ0]

Add the word "always". Teams can win without good QB's. So it's not always the most important.


teams do not win without good QB play. Teams that win get first downs and don't turn the ball over. If you are saying that you don't need Brady or Manning to win I would agree with you. However, you need good production from the position with what you have. There is no other way.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

this post implies they are both solely responsible for the outcome of their team.

"Implies" and "directly states" are two different things. A statement can "imply" a number of things but can only directly state what the words say.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

"Implies" and "directly states" are two different things. A statement can "imply" a number of things but can only directly state what the words say.
thank you.......

[justasportsfan]

"Implies" and "directly states" are two different things. A statement can "imply" a number of things but can only directly state what the words say.
that is why I quoted that part for clarification.

[Typ0]

"Implies" and "directly states" are two different things. A statement can "imply" a number of things but can only directly state what the words say.

I disagree. Something implied is a function of what the words say as well.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

implying means something that is suggested. Not directly stated.

[TacklingDummy]

I agree. That's why Flutie got benched in favor of Brees. Brees is way better than Flutie.

Agreed, that was the case in SD.

In Buffalo Flutie made the players around him better. Johnson made them look worse.

[Typ0]

implying means something that is suggested. Not directly stated.

no implied means something that is logically deduced.

Red Cats eat Worms
The Cat is Red

The Cat Eats Worms is implied.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

no implied means something that is logically deduced.

Red Cats eat Worms
The Cat is Red

The Cat Eats Worms is implied.
im·plied http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fimplied) /ɪmˈplaɪd/ Pronunciation Key (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/) - Show Spelled Pronunciation (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/)[im-plahyd] Pronunciation Key (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/) - Show IPA Pronunciation (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/)
–adjective <TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">involved, indicated, or suggested without being directly or explicitly stated; tacitly understood


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Typ0]

im·plied http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fimplied) /ɪmˈplaɪd/ Pronunciation Key (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/) - Show Spelled Pronunciation (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/)[im-plahyd] Pronunciation Key (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/) - Show IPA Pronunciation (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/)
–adjective <TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">involved, indicated, or suggested without being directly or explicitly stated; tacitly understood


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

there is a lawyer around here somewhere...ask them.

[Lexwhat]

no implied means something that is logically deduced.

Red Cats eat Worms
The Cat is Red

The Cat Eats Worms is implied.


Perhaps you mean "inference" ?

[Oaf]

I think he's got a point.

Not saying it was applicable to us, but if an offense was built and tailored to his strengths (Yes, there ARE some) a la Farve or Kelly, I'd be willing to bet he'd be a lot more successful than he was here.

[Owen DeBoard]

teams do not win without good QB play. Teams that win get first downs and don't turn the ball over. If you are saying that you don't need Brady or Manning to win I would agree with you. However, you need good production from the position with what you have. There is no other way.
This is not true. How about the 2000 Ravens. Trent Dilfer wasnt anything special. It was all defense that won them the super bowl. Their offense was terrible. How about the Tampa Bay team that won the superbowl. Brad Johnson didnt light the world on fire either. Another good defense won the superbowl that year. Yes it is good to have a QB that can play but you have to have a team around them.

[Owen DeBoard]

I firmly believe one player can turn a team around. We have seen it before. The Pats were 0-2 with Bledsoe, going no where. 5-11 a year before. Tom Brady steps in and all of a sudden then win a Super Bowl. Look a Derek Anderson, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo etc... They turned their teams around almost instantly. I know Losman isn't the only reason we are bad or Jim Kelly is the only reason they became good. The QB is the most vital part, this is what you hear from all former coaches and players. Rich Gannon, who knows a thing or two about football, said after the Bills game against the Jags that its hard to have a good team without a consistent QB. He was talking about the Bills. Thats what Losman is, inconsistent.
Brady stepped in when Bledsoe took that hit in the jets game and got injured not because of Bledsoes play. Later that year in the playoffs against the Steelers the Patriots were down by like to scores and Brady got hurt and Bledsoe came back in and scored twice to win and take the Patriots to the superbowl. So if it wasnt for Bledsoe coming back in the Patriots would have never went to that superbowl.

[Kenny]

This is not true. How about the 2000 Ravens. Trent Dilfer wasnt anything special. It was all defense that won them the super bowl. Their offense was terrible. How about the Tampa Bay team that won the superbowl. Brad Johnson didnt light the world on fire either. Another good defense won the superbowl that year. Yes it is good to have a QB that can play but you have to have a team around them.

Talk about going into extremes here... Unless you think that every single position on our defense can play at pro-bowl caliber levels, -there is no way our defense will be able to compensate for a lack of offense that both the Tampa Bay and Baltimore defenses did.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

Brady stepped in when Bledsoe took that hit in the jets game and got injured not because of Bledsoes play. Later that year in the playoffs against the Steelers the Patriots were down by like to scores and Brady got hurt and Bledsoe came back in and scored twice to win and take the Patriots to the superbowl. So if it wasnt for Bledsoe coming back in the Patriots would have never went to that superbowl.
If Bledsoe never got hurt, the Pats wouldn't have even make the playoffs. Brady turned that team around. Its another Wally Pipp situation. Are telling me that Brady can't bringa team back but Bledsoe can? That is ridiculous. And no, where do you get your information from? NEW ENGLAND WAS NEVER BEHIND IN THE GAME AT ALL!!! NE was up at one point 21-3!!!

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

This is not true. How about the 2000 Ravens. Trent Dilfer wasnt anything special. It was all defense that won them the super bowl. Their offense was terrible. How about the Tampa Bay team that won the superbowl. Brad Johnson didnt light the world on fire either. Another good defense won the superbowl that year. Yes it is good to have a QB that can play but you have to have a team around them.
The Ravens offense was ranked 14th in total scoring. Dilfer might not have been special but he did enough to score. When you are 14th in scoring and have the best defense ever, your going to win. He did what was asked of him.
Brad Johnson threw 22 TD's to 6 INTS and made the Pro Bowl!!!
You need to research before posting.

[Owen DeBoard]

The Ravens offense was ranked 14th in total scoring. Dilfer might not have been special but he did enough to score. When you are 14th in scoring and have the best defense ever, your going to win. He did what was asked of him.
Brad Johnson threw 22 TD's to 6 INTS and made the Pro Bowl!!!
You need to research before posting.
Dilfer threw 20 tds and 19 interceptions and that defense and special teams scored too. My point on this is that one qb is not going to make a team win a championship. It takes a TEAM to win it. All you Brady lovers put him on this team and we probably still wouldnt make the playoffs. There is more wrong with this team than the qb play. Also the Bucs had the leagues top defense. So I think I did do some research there bud

[Owen DeBoard]

If Bledsoe never got hurt, the Pats wouldn't have even make the playoffs. Brady turned that team around. Its another Wally Pipp situation. Are telling me that Brady can't bringa team back but Bledsoe can? That is ridiculous. And no, where do you get your information from? NEW ENGLAND WAS NEVER BEHIND IN THE GAME AT ALL!!! NE was up at one point 21-3!!!
Did I say that Tom Brady cant bring a team back but Bledsoe can. Show me where I said that. You are right New England wasnt behind. They got there first TD from a punt return and another TD from Drew Bledsoe after Brady got hurt. Pittsburgh was heavily favored and if it werent for special teams New England would have lost. It wasnt Tom Brady in that game.

[Owen DeBoard]

I firmly believe one player can turn a team around. We have seen it before. The Pats were 0-2 with Bledsoe, going no where. 5-11 a year before. Tom Brady steps in and all of a sudden then win a Super Bowl. Look a Derek Anderson, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo etc... They turned their teams around almost instantly. I know Losman isn't the only reason we are bad or Jim Kelly is the only reason they became good. The QB is the most vital part, this is what you hear from all former coaches and players. Rich Gannon, who knows a thing or two about football, said after the Bills game against the Jags that its hard to have a good team without a consistent QB. He was talking about the Bills. Thats what Losman is, inconsistent.
Look who Derek Anderson Kurt Warner and Tony Romo have on offense. You cant compare their weapons to ours. This is proof that one player cant turn teams around.

[Jimbuktu]

This is it folks. It's like when you fumigate the house and those last rats are running from the walls...

BWAHAHHAHA!


I've hated your posts all season, but jesus, that made me laugh out loud.

[Typ0]

This is not true. How about the 2000 Ravens. Trent Dilfer wasnt anything special. It was all defense that won them the super bowl. Their offense was terrible. How about the Tampa Bay team that won the superbowl. Brad Johnson didnt light the world on fire either. Another good defense won the superbowl that year. Yes it is good to have a QB that can play but you have to have a team around them.

those teams won because they got good production from the QB position and they didn't have a franchise QB. It's funny that you sight Dilfer and Johnson in your example because neither of these guys were great QBs but they played brilliantly in the seasons their teams won the superbowl.

[Owen DeBoard]

those teams won because they got good production from the QB position and they didn't have a franchise QB. It's funny that you sight Dilfer and Johnson in your example because neither of these guys were great QBs but they played brilliantly in the seasons their teams won the superbowl.
Im trying to point out that you dont have to have a great qb to have success that is my point. Its a TEAM game always has been always will be.

[Typ0]

Im trying to point out that you dont have to have a great qb to have success that is my point. Its a TEAM game always has been always will be.


and the original arguement was that you could win with bad QB play and you can't. You don't have to have a great QB no but you still need good production from what you have. If you get crap then you are going to lose.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

Did I say that Tom Brady cant bring a team back but Bledsoe can. Show me where I said that. You are right New England wasnt behind. They got there first TD from a punt return and another TD from Drew Bledsoe after Brady got hurt. Pittsburgh was heavily favored and if it werent for special teams New England would have lost. It wasnt Tom Brady in that game.

You said that if it wasn't for Drew Bledsoe, the Patriots would have not went to the Super Bowl. How am I suppposed to take that? When you say that, it sounds like you are saying that Tom Brady wouldn't have won that game. Why else would you say that. You don't know that if it wasn't for special teams, NE would have lost? How do you know? If they didn't get that special teams TD, why couldn't they have just driven down there field an scored on offense? Just because a special teams doesn't score doesn't mean the offense cant.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

Look who Derek Anderson Kurt Warner and Tony Romo have on offense. You cant compare their weapons to ours. This is proof that one player cant turn teams around.
That is proof? Bledsoe had the same weapons as Romo. Frye had the same weapons as Anderson. Trent Green had the same weapons as Warner. Why did Cleveland not win with CHarlie Fry but with Derek Anderson. Why did Dallas not make the playoffs with Drew Bledsoe but make it with Tony Romo? WHy was ST Louis 5-11 the year before without Kurt Warner? That is PROOF that one player can turn a team around.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

Dilfer threw 20 tds and 19 interceptions and that defense and special teams scored too. My point on this is that one qb is not going to make a team win a championship. It takes a TEAM to win it. All you Brady lovers put him on this team and we probably still wouldnt make the playoffs. There is more wrong with this team than the qb play. Also the Bucs had the leagues top defense. So I think I did do some research there bud
That is laughable. If Brady was our QB, we would be a consistent playoff team. Bledsoe was 5-11 in 2000. 0-2 in the start of 2001. Brady steps in and takes over and all of a sudden they win. Same team, same coaching staff but Bledsoe takes them no where, Brady takes them to the Super Bowl. YOu think Bledsoe would have taken the Pats to three Super Bowls? I don't think so. If Brady can turn the Pats around, why wouldn't he not be able to do the same with the Bills?

[billser]

Very rarely does a QB play in a system perfectly suited for his strengths, and many times team only do this for qbs who are established (manning, brady)...For the most part, however, a capable qb will be able to look decent in any given systme simply by reverting back to natural qb skills...a system catered to his strengths will make him look amazing......JP has looked horrible, plain and simple, ...and i rather really have a running gameplan feattured arond lynch rather than try to maximize JPs strengths anyway....lets move on n see what Edwards can do

[Owen DeBoard]

That is laughable. If Brady was our QB, we would be a consistent playoff team. Bledsoe was 5-11 in 2000. 0-2 in the start of 2001. Brady steps in and takes over and all of a sudden they win. Same team, same coaching staff but Bledsoe takes them no where, Brady takes them to the Super Bowl. YOu think Bledsoe would have taken the Pats to three Super Bowls? I don't think so. If Brady can turn the Pats around, why wouldn't he not be able to do the same with the Bills?
Yeah that is laughable because well hell I guess Brady might as well play defense also. Maybee even take over the head coaching job too. Look guy im am not trying to just argue with you im stating my opinions and you are stating yours.

[Owen DeBoard]

That is proof? Bledsoe had the same weapons as Romo. Frye had the same weapons as Anderson. Trent Green had the same weapons as Warner. Why did Cleveland not win with CHarlie Fry but with Derek Anderson. Why did Dallas not make the playoffs with Drew Bledsoe but make it with Tony Romo? WHy was ST Louis 5-11 the year before without Kurt Warner? That is PROOF that one player can turn a team around.
Im sorry but I dont have the time nor do I want to check if there were some injuries and the strength of the schedule that factored in with your theory. ONE PLAYER DOES NOT MAKE A TEAM. IT IS A TEAM GAME.

[Owen DeBoard]

That is laughable. If Brady was our QB, we would be a consistent playoff team. Bledsoe was 5-11 in 2000. 0-2 in the start of 2001. Brady steps in and takes over and all of a sudden they win. Same team, same coaching staff but Bledsoe takes them no where, Brady takes them to the Super Bowl. YOu think Bledsoe would have taken the Pats to three Super Bowls? I don't think so. If Brady can turn the Pats around, why wouldn't he not be able to do the same with the Bills?
Correct me if im wrong but didnt Bledsoe take the Patriots to a super bowl in the 90s (im going to say like 96 but I could be wrong) and play the Packers.

[Owen DeBoard]

If a qb has time to throw the football then that team is going to be successful. See the Patriots offenseline this year. See the Colts offenseline when Manning broke the record. You could put a highschool qb behind the Patriots line and with the wide receivers they got and he would be putting up record numbers too.

[Inetpub]

All this blah blah blah. Heres the best system for judging a QB. And its proven.

Is he starting this weekend? No.

Then who cares.

You can support Rob Johnson/benchwarmer Loserman all you want but they playing at the moment for the Buffalo Bills.

Leave it at that and get a 5th rounder out of loserman.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

Correct me if im wrong but didnt Bledsoe take the Patriots to a super bowl in the 90s (im going to say like 96 but I could be wrong) and play the Packers.
That is a different team. It was a Bill Parcells team. My arguement is Bledsoe had the same team and coach as Brady but Brady won with them and Bledsoe didn't.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

Im sorry but I dont have the time nor do I want to check if there were some injuries and the strength of the schedule that factored in with your theory. ONE PLAYER DOES NOT MAKE A TEAM. IT IS A TEAM GAME.
First, answer me this. If you same one player can't make a team, would the Colts be a Super Bowl contender without Manning? Would the Pats, be a Super Contender without Brady? Would the Cowboys be a Super Bowl contender without Romo? Unless those guys are replaced by people who at are about their level, they won't go anywhere. The one thing Im confused on is use said that the Pats would not have gone to the Super Bowl without Bledsoe in the 2001 season. Then you say one player cannot make a team. Bledsoe is one player and you said that the Pats wouldn't have won without him. Isn't that a contradiction?

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

First, answer me this. If you same one player can't make a team, would the Colts be a Super Bowl contender without Manning? Would the Pats, be a Super Contender without Brady( taking out this year because the Pats are unbelievable. )They would not be 11-0 without him ) ? Would the Cowboys be a Super Bowl contender without Romo? Unless those guys are replaced by people who at are about their level, they won't go anywhere. The one thing Im confused on is use said that the Pats would not have gone to the Super Bowl without Bledsoe in the 2001 season. Then you say one player cannot make a team. Bledsoe is one player and you said that the Pats wouldn't have won without him. Isn't that a contradiction?

[Owen DeBoard]

First, answer me this. If you same one player can't make a team, would the Colts be a Super Bowl contender without Manning? Would the Pats, be a Super Contender without Brady? Would the Cowboys be a Super Bowl contender without Romo? Unless those guys are replaced by people who at are about their level, they won't go anywhere. The one thing Im confused on is use said that the Pats would not have gone to the Super Bowl without Bledsoe in the 2001 season. Then you say one player cannot make a team. Bledsoe is one player and you said that the Pats wouldn't have won without him. Isn't that a contradiction?
I said they wouldnt have won that game without him cominng in. Didnt I also say if it werent for special teams also. So there you go its not one player. Look how the colts defense played last year in the playoffs. Look how they ran the football in the playoffs. Manning didnt do all that. I dont think we are going to get anywhere on this arguement. You got your opinion and I have mine. So lets quit arguing like a couple of school girls.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

One player alone cannot make a team.

But one player alone can ruin one.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

I said they wouldnt have won that game without him cominng in. Didnt I also say if it werent for special teams also. So there you go its not one player. Look how the colts defense played last year in the playoffs. Look how they ran the football in the playoffs. Manning didnt do all that. I dont think we are going to get anywhere on this arguement. You got your opinion and I have mine. So lets quit arguing like a couple of school girls.
Okay, you have your opinion and I have mine. We just might be misunderstanding each other. I do agree that its a team that wins games. The point Im trying to make is one player can seperate a Championship team from a non championship team. The Colts, Packers, Patriots, Steelers, and Cowboys have excellent QB's. If any of them go down, I don't think they make the Super Bowl. Pats can't beat the Colts or Steelers without Brady. Colts can't beat the Pats or Steelers without Manning etc... That is what I am trying to get at