Aaron Schobel

[Owen DeBoard]

Everybody is critizing Aaron Schobel on this board. Look at Julius Peppers and the kind of year he is having. He only has 2.5 sacks also. Whould you be throwing him under the bus too. How about Dwight Freeney last year? It took him like 10 weeks to get a sack. Look at the sack leader Aaron Kappman who is the leagues sack leader. Does he have a spin move?

[hydro]

You bring up some good points.

[Pinkerton Security]

kampman does not have a spin move like freeneys but he CAN stop the run as well as rush the passer. i love schobel but its tough seeing him fly upfield and then see the opposition's RB run off-tackle for 20 yds.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Brady only threw 1 TD last week against the Eagles. They should cut him.

[Owen DeBoard]

You bring up some good points.
I just try to throw out there what I see.

[Owen DeBoard]

kampman does not have a spin move like freeneys but he CAN stop the run as well as rush the passer. i love schobel but its tough seeing him fly upfield and then see the opposition's RB run off-tackle for 20 yds.
He did stop a couple of plays in the backfield last week for negative yards.

[Mahdi]

Everybody is critizing Aaron Schobel on this board. Look at Julius Peppers and the kind of year he is having. He only has 2.5 sacks also. Whould you be throwing him under the bus too. How about Dwight Freeney last year? It took him like 10 weeks to get a sack. Look at the sack leader Aaron Kappman who is the leagues sack leader. Does he have a spin move?
Kampman may not have a spin move but he has a powerful inside rush and he's also quick off the edge which makes him tough to defend. So far the book on Schobel is that you can use his speed against him and let him go around the pocket. He needs to add the inside move or things wont change.

[Yasgur's Farm]

There was absolutely no reason for Schoebel to drop to 242 pounds... NONE!

[Owen DeBoard]

There was absolutely no reason for Schoebel to drop to 242 pounds... NONE!
Its all about the cover two scheme. It requires speed not size. Im not big on him dropping weight either. Hes just doing what is asked of him.

[Mahdi]

There was absolutely no reason for Schoebel to drop to 242 pounds... NONE!
yeah for real,,,, dont know what he was thinking. or the staff for that matter.

[RockStar36]

Those stats are irrelevant. Those players don't play in Buffalo.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Yup... And the 8.7 yards per attempt to his side are totally acceptable run defense stats.

[Mahdi]

Yup... And the 8.7 yards per attempt to his side are totally acceptable run defense stats.
Where did u get that stat from?

[Yasgur's Farm]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=140801

[Owen DeBoard]

Those stats are irrelevant. Those players don't play in Buffalo.
Why isnt it they are some of the best pass rushing DE in the game. It just shows you that everyone is human.

[Mahdi]

Why isnt it they are some of the best pass rushing DE in the game. It just shows you that everyone is human.
The difference is that those guys are getting doubled while Schobel is being shut down one on one which isnt freeing up the other guys.

[OpIv37]

Everybody is critizing Aaron Schobel on this board. Look at Julius Peppers and the kind of year he is having. He only has 2.5 sacks also. Whould you be throwing him under the bus too. How about Dwight Freeney last year? It took him like 10 weeks to get a sack. Look at the sack leader Aaron Kappman who is the leagues sack leader. Does he have a spin move?

and how many pressures does Peppers have? I bet it's more than Schobel.

And how many sacks do Peppers' linemates have because they're paying so much attention to him? I bet it's more than our DT's.

The fact is that not only is Schobel NOT getting sacks, most of the time he's nowhere near the QB and his up-field technique allows the draw to run right by him. We could do a lot worse than Schobel, but we could also do a lot better and he hasn't earned the contract we gave him.

Between Kelsay, Schobel, Trippett and Denney, this FO has a lot of money tied up in an ineffectual DL.

[HHURRICANE]

Sounds like an excuse thread. Schobel sucks.

[RockStar36]

Why isnt it they are some of the best pass rushing DE in the game. It just shows you that everyone is human.

Yeah well the Bills are paying this particular human a lot of money to do a lot of nothing.

[YardRat]

Move aside, JP...The fan base just found a new whippin' boy.

[Owen DeBoard]

Sounds like an excuse thread. Schobel sucks.
Wow I would say he has been our most consistend player on defense before this year. He is what in like the top five in sacks for current players in the last couple of years but this guy sucks. Wow what does it take to please you. This guy dont talk smack he just goes out and does his job. Many of the commintators say his motor never stops that he gives it his all on every play and your goin to sit and trash him. Wow what a tough crowd.

[Owen DeBoard]

2001 42 total tackles 6.5 sacks 2 passes defensed
2002 52 total tackles 8.5 sacks 2 forced fumbles 4 passes defensed
2003 60 total tackles 11.5 sacks 1 interception 1 forced fumble 3 passes defensed
2004 73 total tackles 8 sacks 5 forced fumbles 4 passes defensed
2005 71 total tackles 12 sacks 1 interception 2 forced fumbles 5 passes defensed
2006 53 total tackles 14 sacks 3 forced fumbles 3 passes defensed
2007 36 total tackles 2.5 sacks 3 forced fumbles and 4 passes defensed

I would have to say that he has had a pretty good career so far. He does deserve the contract he just got.

[Oaf]

Sacks don't matter to me, I just want to see him make more plays when it counts, rather than garbage time. That's what playmakers do.

[mybills]

Sacks matter to me on 3rd downs. :up:

[Kerr]

I like schobel, but is he not open to criticism just because he has been this team's best end for a number of years? Bruce would get crapped if he didn't play well. The fact is this is a what have you done for me lately league. Schobel is not playing well against non pro bowl tackles. Weight loss? Dwight freeney never complains about his height, but he still finds a way to make up for it w/ speed.

[Owen DeBoard]

I like schobel, but is he not open to criticism just because he has been this team's best end for a number of years? Bruce would get crapped if he didn't play well. The fact is this is a what have you done for me lately league. Schobel is not playing well against non pro bowl tackles. Weight loss? Dwight freeney never complains about his height, but he still finds a way to make up for it w/ speed.
Ive never heard Schobel complain about his weight and if hes open for criticism then every player on the defense is because I see Schobel as a very small part of the problem.

[Kerr]

Ive never heard Schobel complain about his weight and if hes open for criticism then every player on the defense is because I see Schobel as a very small part of the problem.

I didn't mean to say aaron was personally using his weight loss as an excuse, but other ppl are.

[Jan Reimers]

There appears to be a direct correlation between Schobel's weight loss and his reduced sacks. He's simply no longer big enough to play DE effectively.

Any 242 lb DE coming out of college would be moved immediately to LB.

[Mahdi]

Sacks matter to me on 3rd downs. :up:
Yeah I hate watching third and longs now.... its almost a guaranteed first down. If teams actually realized it they wouldnt run on us at all. They should pass every down like the Pats did and protect with their 5 against our 4. We would be on the field all day.

[Kerr]

Boom.
http://www.nfl.com/players/robertmathis/profile?id=MAT227229
only 3 pounds heavier, yet has been a productive end for the colts.

[Mahdi]

Boom.
http://www.nfl.com/players/robertmathis/profile?id=MAT227229
only 3 pounds heavier, yet has been a productive end for the colts.
Well maybe that works for Mathis. Doesnt work for Schobel. Other thing is that Schobel is usually taking on better athletes at LT than Mathis. Better athletes will be able handle that speed rush stuff so you have to counter it which he's not doing. Mathis on the other hand is using speed against RTs who are not quite as athletic, generally.

[don137]

No pass rush is definitely hurting the defense. I think the DL is worst in the league at generating sacks. Not exactly good for a cover two scheme. Schoebel's weight loss I am sure had something to Schoebel's lack of production.
Believe me Peppers is getting hammered by the fans and media down here. They have 28MM invested in their staring line and they absolutely blow. That and David Carr at QB for many games is also a reason why they are right up there with Miami as worse teams in the league.

[Philagape]

Boom.
http://www.nfl.com/players/robertmathis/profile?id=MAT227229
only 3 pounds heavier, yet has been a productive end for the colts.

I'm sure Schobel would love to have Freeney on the other side too.

[Kerr]

Well maybe that works for Mathis. Doesnt work for Schobel. Other thing is that Schobel is usually taking on better athletes at LT than Mathis. Better athletes will be able handle that speed rush stuff so you have to counter it which he's not doing. Mathis on the other hand is using speed against RTs who are not quite as athletic, generally.


If i'm not mistaken, Mathis was switched to the right side a few games when freeney was injured and was still effective.

[Kerr]

I'm sure Schobel would love to have Freeney on the other side too.


Of course that would help the team's pass rush, but how would that excuse schobel's poor pass rush?

[Philagape]

Of course that would help the team's pass rush, but how would that excuse schobel's poor pass rush?

It doesn't, I'm just saying Mathis probably isn't a good example.

[chubluv]

Schobel is having an off year statistically so what. The rest of our D is hurting and the cover 2 sucks.

[Mahdi]

If i'm not mistaken, Mathis was switched to the right side a few games when freeney was injured and was still effective.
Like I said,,,just because being at 245 works for Mathis,,,,doesnt mean it will work for Shoebel. The guy gets 14.5 sacks then decides to drop 20 pounds? Dont get it.

[Mahdi]

Schobel is having an off year statistically so what. The rest of our D is hurting and the cover 2 sucks.
The cover 2 doesnt suck,,,, but if your DEs cant get the D off the field on 3rd down then it sucks. If you play a 46 D with crappy DTs then the 46 would suck for you too.

[HHURRICANE]

Ive never heard Schobel complain about his weight and if hes open for criticism then every player on the defense is because I see Schobel as a very small part of the problem.

Schobel is the highest paid player on the D so the criticism is proportionate. He's being paid to be a play maker and he's not doing it.

[HHURRICANE]

Boom.
http://www.nfl.com/players/robertmathis/profile?id=MAT227229
only 3 pounds heavier, yet has been a productive end for the colts.

Freeney is built alot differently than Kelsay. Freeney is built like a rock. Schobel looks like Denney.

[Owen DeBoard]

Schobel is the highest paid player on the D so the criticism is proportionate. He's being paid to be a play maker and he's not doing it.
He has also been our most consistent player on d that is why he is the highest paid player on d.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Who's the most consistant?

Schobel (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2594) - 36 TACKLES, 24 SOLO, 12 AST, 2.5 SKS 4 STF, 10 STFY, 3 FF, 0 INT, 0 TD, 4 PD

Kelsay (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6384) - 32 TACKLES, 26 SOLO, 6 AST, 2 SKS 4 STF, 8 STFY, O FF, 1 INT, 1 TD, 2 PD

I'm not seeing much of a seperation here... The 20 pounds matter.

[patmoran2006]

Everybody is critizing Aaron Schobel on this board. Look at Julius Peppers and the kind of year he is having. He only has 2.5 sacks also. Whould you be throwing him under the bus too. How about Dwight Freeney last year? It took him like 10 weeks to get a sack. Look at the sack leader Aaron Kappman who is the leagues sack leader. Does he have a spin move?
My problem isn't really with Schobel's numbers, sacks is a very misrepresented statistic.

Im extremely dissapointed that he dissappears for long stretches, but more than anything, you don't pay a guy $50 million so he can be on the sidlines for 35-40% of the other team's offensive plays. This rotational system is abused. If Schobel is their best linemen he should be out there 80-85% of the snaps, minimum.

[Kerr]

Like I said,,,just because being at 245 works for Mathis,,,,doesnt mean it will work for Shoebel. The guy gets 14.5 sacks then decides to drop 20 pounds? Dont get it.

I suppose the point of dropping those pounds was to gain more speed, but at this point it's not working because he either hasn't gotten any faster or is taking the wrong angles. He can't rely on bull rushing anymore because he probably won't win many of those matchups.

[Oaf]

Now THATS the kind of performance we need from him week in, week out.