No, Gibbs did not "blow the game"

[MikeInRoch]

I'm sick of the announcers everywhere saying that basically the Skins would have won if Gibbs hadn't called the second timeout.

Did he make the FG easier? Sure. But before the first TO, Lindell kicked it from that distance just fine.

[billsburgh]

that's kind of what Mariucci said on NFL networks recap show.

[hydro]

Over reaction in the media??? Never would have guessed it. :rofl:

[HHURRICANE]

that's kind of what Mariucci said on NFL networks recap show.

Exactly what he said. We fricking made the kick, twice.

[patmoran2006]

The fact that team was even able to play semi-inspired for any part of the game given the situation is testament to the kind of guy and coach Gibbs is.


Many teams would've lost 40-0 today in those circumstances, in which case would be understoood. Nobody should undervalue the impact that murder had on this team.

[honey]

The fact that team was even able to play semi-inspired for any part of the game given the situation is testament to the kind of guy and coach Gibbs is.


Many teams would've lost 40-0 today in those circumstances, in which case would be understoood. Nobody should undervalue the impact that murder had on this team.

I don't think anyone is doing that, pat. I think the Skins played really well today, I credit them for that, but say, hey, the Bills won, Gibbs did a no-no (understandable, but still a no-no), and I think that we would have won anyways. Lindell is pretty awesome. :smile:

[Captain gameboy]

The fact that team was even able to play semi-inspired for any part of the game given the situation is testament to the kind of guy and coach Gibbs is.


Many teams would've lost 40-0 today in those circumstances, in which case would be understoood. Nobody should undervalue the impact that murder had on this team.

Or overvalue it.

Stuff happens. People do their jobs.

Gibbs sucked today.
They ran wild with Cooley/Moss in the first half, and other than a TD drive in the third, sucked the entire second half, including totally screwing up the last possessions, on both sides of the ball.

Nothing in the second half had anything to do with Taylor.

Gibbs is a great guy and a hall of famer, from another era.

[YardRat]

Jauron would be getting completely reamed on these boards if he did the same thing, under the same circumstances.

[patmoran2006]

Or overvalue it.

Stuff happens. People do their jobs.

Gibbs sucked today.
They ran wild with Cooley/Moss in the first half, and other than a TD drive in the third, sucked the entire second half, including totally screwing up the last possessions, on both sides of the ball.

Nothing in the second half had anything to do with Taylor.

Gibbs is a great guy and a hall of famer, from another era.
Football is a game of energy and conditioning and momentum.

you don't think barely practicing or preparing for this game all week had anything to do with their second-half slowdown?

I'm not taking anything away from the Bills (and btw I'm not defending Gibb's **** up)-- but I'm sure the Redskins were affected by this.

Even Campbell said after the game at times everyone was into it and at times guys seemed to be in another world with their thoughts.

I don't know about anyone else; but it's not just "do your job" when someone like a brother to you is gunned down at 24 years old.

You dont think the Kevin Everett injury effected the Bills at all vs Pittsburgh?

[Captain gameboy]

What I think, Pat, is that they had plenty of energy and plenty of focus, and I don't think that a single mistake was result of their tragedy.
In fact, I can't remember a game that I have attended away from the Ralph that there was more energy and feed off of a bad situation.

The point is that Gibbs screwed this up.

He gets a A+ for his handling from Monday through Sat night, but today they are supposed to do what they are paid to do.

They played against a rookie quarterback who was just recently named a starter.
Was using its third string d2 running back.
Has linebacker and DB problems that are very significant.
Has no effective tight ends.
Did not score a touchdown.

They were at home, with extreme positive emotion.
They had a shot at the playoffs.
They have an extremely highly paid staff.
They had a TE and WR that were tearing us up in the first half.
They didn't punt until people forgot about them punting.
They had the ball with a first down against a team with two timeouts and ran three straight times, inside the two minute warning, when they were unable to run the entire game, then punted to one of the most dangerous return guys/team in the NFL.

They looked silly and confused when it mattered, and made an unbelievably stupid call.

Gibbs is done.
That happens to good guys too.

[Michael82]

Jauron would be getting completely reamed on these boards if he did the same thing, under the same circumstances.
EXACTLY! Good post. :bf1:

[LtFinFan66]

Jauron would be getting completely reamed on these boards if he did the same thing, under the same circumstances.I know that is true

[Ebenezer]

I can't wait until the league implements the rule that you can't call any TOs just to ice the kicker...they used to call TOs with plenty of time before the kick...now they are trying to call it a millisecond before the snap...at some point a whistle is going to blow just as a kicker is going through his motion and, somehow, he will get injured...

[Night Train]

Jauron would be getting completely reamed on these boards if he did the same thing, under the same circumstances.

Agreed. I'm glad someone else sees the irony.

[Historian]

I agree with Mike.

Lindell was on fire yesterday.

Gibbs has nothing left to prove, he should concentrate his efforts on his passion...race cars.

[OpIv37]

I'm sick of the announcers everywhere saying that basically the Skins would have won if Gibbs hadn't called the second timeout.

Did he make the FG easier? Sure. But before the first TO, Lindell kicked it from that distance just fine.

Short-sighted.

Ever notice how Lindell's kickoffs are always much shorter after FG's than they are after XP's or at the start of a game/half?

The guy seems to only have one long kick at a time. He made the first one but that's far from a guarantee that he would make the second one. 51 yard field goals are not automatic- 38 yard field goals are automatic in the NFL.

It came down to one last chance for the Skins and Gibbs greatly reduced that chance with an all-time bonehead move that ranks up there with Jauron's wasting a challenge and two time outs on the same play last year.

[TigerJ]

I would just as soon leave the issue of Gibbs' overall competence as a head coach alone. His team was ready to play in the first half and looked like they were going to manhandle Buffalo except for their failure in the red zone. In the second half, Buffalo made defensive adjustments and Washington could not cope with those adjustments. The penalty on the FG at the end of the game was truly boneheaded and was all Gibbs' fault. Other than that it's hard for me to quantify how much of the loss is on Gibbs, how much is on his players, and how much is to the credit of the Bills. I'll let Dan Snyder worry about that issue at the end of the season.

[don137]

It's not like we had Jake Ariens kicking the ball. Sure it helped but it did not cost them the game...Yea, Gibbs screwed that up but considering the happenings of the week I will let the mental mistake slide.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Short-sighted.

Ever notice how Lindell's kickoffs are always much shorter after FG's than they are after XP's or at the start of a game/half?

The guy seems to only have one long kick at a time. He made the first one but that's far from a guarantee that he would make the second one. 51 yard field goals are not automatic- 38 yard field goals are automatic in the NFL.

It came down to one last chance for the Skins and Gibbs greatly reduced that chance with an all-time bonehead move that ranks up there with Jauron's wasting a challenge and two time outs on the same play last year.
We won the game and now you're whining about our "could've lost"? :shakeno:

[Coach Sal]

..Ever notice how Lindell's kickoffs are always much shorter after FG's than they are after XP's or at the start of a game/half?

I actually hadn't.

Is that true? Is there somewhere that stat is kept? If so, I'd like to see it.

I'm not doubting you. I just think that's an amazing stat if it's true and would like to look more into it.

And if it is true, but there is no data actually showing it, that would be some incredible observation by you.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I actually hadn't.

Is that true? Is there somewhere that stat is kept? If so, I'd like to see it.

I'm not doubting you. I just think that's an amazing stat if it's true and would like to look more into it.

And if it is true, but there is no data actually showing it, that would be some incredible observation by you.
Op is very gifted in being able to observe anything negative.

[hydro]

I actually hadn't.

Is that true? Is there somewhere that stat is kept? If so, I'd like to see it.

I'm not doubting you. I just think that's an amazing stat if it's true and would like to look more into it.

And if it is true, but there is no data actually showing it, that would be some incredible observation by you.

:rofl: exactly what i was thinking.

[OpIv37]

We won the game and now you're whining about our "could've lost"? :shakeno:

huh? I'm not whining about anything. I think MikeinRoch is wrong- the Skins only chance at winning was Lindell missing and Gibbs basically took away that chance with a stupid mistake.

Do you actually read my posts or do you just assume you already know what they're going to say and comment on that?

[OpIv37]

I actually hadn't.

Is that true? Is there somewhere that stat is kept? If so, I'd like to see it.

I'm not doubting you. I just think that's an amazing stat if it's true and would like to look more into it.

And if it is true, but there is no data actually showing it, that would be some incredible observation by you.

there's nowhere I know of where the stat is kept- you'd just have to look at drive charts to see where the FG is from and where the subsequent kickoff is fielded. I don't have time to do it today though- I'm kinda busy at work.

But believe me- I've noticed it on numerous occasions throughout Lindell's career. When he started with us his kickoffs were really bad. He's improved tremendously, but from time to time, he still has short kickoffs, and most of them have come right after FG's.

[Coach Sal]

That time out call did not cost the Skins the game.

There are always 5 or 6 crucial moments/plays that are "game changers."

The safety was one. The Skins turnovers were others. The pass to Reed was definitely one.

Gibbs didn't cost his team with that call, but it certainly helped make the field goal a bit easier.

I'm personally just stunned he did it and more stunned he admitted he did not know the rule. That's inexcusable for an NFL head coach, no matter what he's accomplished.

[Mr. Miyagi]

huh? I'm not whining about anything. I think MikeinRoch is wrong- the Skins only chance at winning was Lindell missing and Gibbs basically took away that chance with a stupid mistake.

Do you actually read my posts or do you just assume you already know what they're going to say and comment on that?
Yes unfortunately I read your post, basically saying that had Gibbs not made it a 36 yarder, Lindell would've missed that kick because he couldn't kick two long ones in a row.

On a week where Lindell made 5 FGs including a game winning kick, you have to ***** about his distance after a long kick.

Maybe I shouldn't read your sorry posts anymore. They are always negative about everything they need to just go kill themselves and be done with it.

[OpIv37]

Yes unfortunately I read your post, basically saying that had Gibbs not made it a 36 yarder, Lindell would've missed that kick because he couldn't kick two long ones in a row.

On a week where Lindell made 5 FGs including a game winning kick, you have to ***** about his distance after a long kick.

Maybe I shouldn't read your sorry posts anymore. They are always negative about everything they need to just go kill themselves and be done with it.

You're really criticizing me for saying that making two consecutive 51 yard field goals is harder than making a 38 yard field goal?

Like it or not, players have faults and it's the opposing coach's job to try to take advantage of these faults. Gibbs failed to do that.

People complain about my negativity but that's not the problem- it's people like you who want to pretend every player on our team is perfect and would rather discuss my attitude and tone than football.

Coach Sal managed to discuss my post and keep it football related- apparently that's too much to ask from you.

[Mr. Miyagi]

People complain about my negativity but that's not the problem- it's people like you who want to pretend every player on our team is perfect and would rather discuss my attitude and tone than football.
Lindell was indeed perfect yesterday. Why don't you give him some credit?

[OpIv37]

Lindell was indeed perfect yesterday. Why don't you give him some credit?

Because we weren't talking about Lindell- we were talking about Gibbs' mistake. I didn't realize it was my civic duty to compliment a player every time his name is invoked.

And for the record, I hated Lindell a couple of years ago and wanted him off the team- and I've admitted several times that I was completely wrong about that. I even said that he was our most consistent player in 05 and 06, which were otherwise very mediocre seasons.

[MikeInRoch]

huh? I'm not whining about anything. I think MikeinRoch is wrong- the Skins only chance at winning was Lindell missing and Gibbs basically took away that chance with a stupid mistake.

Do you actually read my posts or do you just assume you already know what they're going to say and comment on that?

Yes, Gibbs made the percentage chance that his team would win the game lower. But the difference in percentages is not as great as most of the media would have you believe.

[Coach Sal]

there's nowhere I know of where the stat is kept- you'd just have to look at drive charts to see where the FG is from and where the subsequent kickoff is fielded. I don't have time to do it today though- I'm kinda busy at work.

But believe me- I've noticed it on numerous occasions throughout Lindell's career. When he started with us his kickoffs were really bad. He's improved tremendously, but from time to time, he still has short kickoffs, and most of them have come right after FG's.

Well, I did go back and look at the charts for 3 of the last 4 games. I didn’t use the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Miami</st1:place></st1:City> game because they kicked away from Ginn intentionally.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
And I don’t see any evidence of what you are saying.
<o:p> </o:p>
Here are his kickoff lengths. I did not include any intentional squib kicks or sky kicks in the info for obvious reasons:
<o:p> </o:p>
Vs. <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Washington</st1:place></st1:State>:
After FG – 65,64,62,64, (also one squib kick)
Start half – 65
<o:p> </o:p>
Vs. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Jacksonville</st1:place></st1:City>:
After XP – 71,70
Start half – 69
<o:p> </o:p>
Vs. Cincy:
After XP – 62,60,60
After FG – 70,75 (also had one squib kick and one sky kick)
Start half – 61
<o:p> </o:p>
Maybe a larger sample would indicate what you claim. But looking at his most recent games, that’s not the case.
<o:p> </o:p>
Not trying to call you out here, Op. I just find that stat fascinating if it’s true. Maybe if you have some time you can get some info on it and pass it along.

[OpIv37]

Well, I did go back and look at the charts for 3 of the last 4 games. I didn’t use the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Miami</st1:place></st1:City> game because they kicked away from Ginn intentionally.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
And I don’t see any evidence of what you are saying.
<o:p> </o:p>
Here are his kickoff lengths. I did not include any intentional squib kicks or sky kicks in the info for obvious reasons:
<o:p> </o:p>
Vs. <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Washington</st1:place></st1:State>:
After FG – 65,64,62,64, (also one squib kick)
Start half – 65
<o:p> </o:p>
Vs. <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Jacksonville</st1:place></st1:City>:
After XP – 71,70
Start half – 69
<o:p> </o:p>
Vs. Cincy:
After XP – 62,60,60
After FG – 70,75 (also had one squib kick and one sky kick)
Start half – 61
<o:p> </o:p>
Maybe a larger sample would indicate what you claim. But looking at his most recent games, that’s not the case.
<o:p> </o:p>
Not trying to call you out here, Op. I just find that stat fascinating if it’s true. Maybe if you have some time you can get some info on it and pass it along.

yeah I think we'd need a larger sample size- like going back 2 or 3 seasons. I guess I was wrong and the trend didn't hold up over the last few games, but I still maintain that a 51 yard FG is much lower percentage than a 38 yard fg.

[Devin]

Lindell would have hit it from 51 again anyway. All gibbs did was make it easier he didnt cost them anything.

[Mr. Miyagi]

ybut I still maintain that a 51 yard FG is much lower percentage than a 38 yard fg.
That's just brilliant. :up:

[hydro]

but I still maintain that a 51 yard FG is much lower percentage than a 38 yard fg.
Im pretty sure anyone who has watched a football game could tell us that. :rolleyes:

[G. Host]

Definitely tougher from 51 than 36 (51 -15 = 36) and even a 36 is no guarantee in that rain.

Once thing Gibbs' timeout did was give the field and the players more time soaking in that rain. Field did not look too good as it was.


Im pretty sure anyone who has watched a football game could tell us that. :rolleyes:

Even my wife knew that who wasn't even watching the game but huddled in bed sleepy after lunch.

[OpIv37]

Im pretty sure anyone who has watched a football game could tell us that. :rolleyes:


That's just brilliant. :up:


no kidding- that's why I'm surprised people are arguing it.

[imbondz]

that's not at all what they said after the game. Marino actually said 'the better team won'. they also blew by the double OT call saying Lindell would have made the kick anyways-

[mysticsoto]

You're really criticizing me for saying that making two consecutive 51 yard field goals is harder than making a 38 yard field goal?

Like it or not, players have faults and it's the opposing coach's job to try to take advantage of these faults. Gibbs failed to do that.

People complain about my negativity but that's not the problem- it's people like you who want to pretend every player on our team is perfect and would rather discuss my attitude and tone than football.

Coach Sal managed to discuss my post and keep it football related- apparently that's too much to ask from you.

Wow...somehow Op found a negative for the Bills in what should be a negative for Washington...unbelievable!!!

I could see you criticizing our 3 and outs in the 1st half, or allowing Cooley so many yards. But c'mon...Lindell has a franchise tie with most consecutive field goals made. The fact that Gibbs made it easier for him in the end doesn't and shouldn't reflect as a negative on him in any way, shape or form - especially after the 1st kick where he was dead on and with plenty of distance...despite the rain!!!

[hydro]

no kidding- that's why I'm surprised people are arguing it.

The problem is you made it seem like it was statistically impossible for him to make the kick because he is "bad" at kicking more than once in a slated time frame.

[OpIv37]

Wow...somehow Op found a negative for the Bills in what should be a negative for Washington...unbelievable!!!

I could see you criticizing our 3 and outs in the 1st half, or allowing Cooley so many yards. But c'mon...Lindell has a franchise tie with most consecutive field goals made. The fact that Gibbs made it easier for him in the end doesn't and shouldn't reflect as a negative on him in any way, shape or form - especially after the 1st kick where he was dead on and with plenty of distance...despite the rain!!!

ok.... one last time.

As the opposing coach, it is Gibbs' job to exploit our players faults. That's what he should have done in this situation. Acknowledging a player's fault when it's relative to the context of the discussion is being realistic- not being negative. All I did was point out some of Lindell's past tendancies and how Gibbs failed to exploit it. That's it- it was relative to the conversation and my intent wasn't even to criticize Lindell- it was to point out Gibbs' mistake.

But, as usual, people want to discuss my attitude rather than football....

[OpIv37]

The problem is you made it seem like it was statistically impossible for him to make the kick because he is "bad" at kicking more than once in a slated time frame.

no, that's not what I said- I said it was statistically less likely- aside from the fact that it's longer, Lindell has shown a tendancy to struggle with more than one consecutive long kick. This was a last ditch effort for the Skins to win- they needed a miss. And Gibbs single handedly reduced their chances of winning to almost 0.

[MikeInRoch]

I think we all agree that the 51 is harder than the 36. What we are arguing about is if it was 'significant'. I don't think that the percentage chance of Lindell making the 51 yarder was more than 10% worse than the percentage chance of him making the 36 yarder. I base that on the fact that he is 6/7 (85.7%) from over 50 in the last three seasons, and 66/75 (88.0%) from under 50 in the same time period. Also, I think the fact that he had JUST made one 30 seconds earlier makes it more likely that he can make another one.

So my original statement really means that there were other plays in the game that were much more meaningful to the final result than Gibbs calling that timeout.

[OpIv37]

So my original statement really means that there were other plays in the game that were much more meaningful to the final result than Gibbs calling that timeout.


That I will agree with- I'm simply saying that when Lindell lined up for that FG attempt, that was the last chance for the Redskins, and it was stupid and amateur of Gibbs to cost his team their last chance of winning. The reality is that they never should have been in that position in the first place, but given that they were, they handled the situation in about the worst possible manner.