Trent Edwards misconception.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Just because he is throwing shorter passes and checking down like Holcomb does not mean he has a weak arm. He is a rookie and playing smart. As he gains exp and confidence the longer throws will come.

His arm strength coming out of college was a strength not a weakness.

He also has a very quick release.

[shelby]

Good point, THURM. He's only played in 5 games this season, we haven't had enough time to fully evaluate all his strengths and weaknesses.

[THATHURMANATOR]

5. Trent Edwards, Stanford, 6-4, 231: After a brilliant prep career at California's Los Gatos High, Edwards was the top quarterback prospect on many college recruiting lists. But Edwards limped through his college years as an unfulfilled promise. There were explanations aplenty, including a lack of talented support and a series of injuries to him and his teammates that left the famous Stanford Hospital with a better roster than the team itself. Some scouts remain confident that Edwards is a great player still waiting to blossom. Physically, he has at times shown everything necessary to be a top prospect, including field awareness, arm strength, mobility, accuracy and toughness. But he made too many bad decisions under pressure and was under pressure far too often; he suffered 84 sacks in 31 games. He missed his final five games at Stanford because of a broken foot that has since mended. Now NFL scouts are wondering whether Edwards can mend his broken career

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2007-04-11-sw-quarterbacks_N.htm

[Mr. Miyagi]

Negatives: Edwards has had trouble keeping himself upright, partly due to a sub-par offensive line, but also because he holds on to the ball way too long in hopes of making a big play. He was getting sacked at a rate of almost four per game through the first half of the 2006 season, compiling an 0-6 record during that stretch.

http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootballleague/p/trentedwards.htm

So far I have not seen that in his 5 games as a Bill.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Good point, THURM. He's only played in 5 games this season, we haven't had enough time to fully evaluate all his strengths and weaknesses.
It really annoys me honestly. He has a good arm. not a cannon like JP but certainly not a rag arm like many here suggest.

[TigerJ]

The misconception didn't come from me. I've always said he had a good arm if not Elway/Favre like arm strength.

[OpIv37]

so the draft magazines that are meaningless when they suggest Marv's picks are a "reach" are suddenly accurate when it comes to evaluating Edwards?

I think we simply don't have enough information yet. One one hand, Edwards is probably checking down because he's a rookie still learning to read D's and doesn't want to throw the pick. On the other hand, he doesn't really go down field and does seem to lack a little "zip" on sideline routes. Just because he doesn't go downfield does not necessarily mean he can't, but I'm not going to believe he can until he proves it.

It's too bad that we have a complete quarterback divided amongst two players. JP has the big arm and the fast legs while Trent has the precision and understanding to consistently move the ball. If we could put Trent's head on JP's body, we'd have our QB.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

It's not that he can't throw it downfield, it's just that he doesn't do it. At least for touchdowns...

But Edwards usually can get one or two big plays a game, just like the other QB.

[patmoran2006]

so the draft magazines that are meaningless when they suggest Marv's picks are a "reach" are suddenly accurate when it comes to evaluating Edwards?

I think we simply don't have enough information yet. One one hand, Edwards is probably checking down because he's a rookie still learning to read D's and doesn't want to throw the pick. On the other hand, he doesn't really go down field and does seem to lack a little "zip" on sideline routes. Just because he doesn't go downfield does not necessarily mean he can't, but I'm not going to believe he can until he proves it.

It's too bad that we have a complete quarterback divided amongst two players. JP has the big arm and the fast legs while Trent has the precision and understanding to consistently move the ball. If we could put Trent's head on JP's body, we'd have our QB.
He didn't "check down" on Sunday hitting Reed on a nice long pass. He didnt check down Sunday hitting Evans on a 29 yarder. He didn't check down hitting Jackson over the middle in FULL STRIDE that led to a 55 yarder.

200 yards in the second half. .He can "check down" all he wants.. The boy can play.... well

[dannyek71]

I dont care what people say, he still seems to have somewhat of a noodle arm to me. That isnt to say that he cant make deep passes, but he doesnt seem to have an above average NFL arm.

Think back the last jets game. When JP came in the game, his arm strength was a world of difference compared to Trent's. This is my biggest concern about TE. He can develop all he can, be as smart as he can be, tough as he can be, but if you don't have an arm in this league, you are doomed to fail. See Chad Pennington.

[OpIv37]

See Chad Pennington.

the sad thing is that for all Pennington's shortcomings, he was always smart and efficient and he's done more than any QB we've had since Kelly.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

I dont care what people say, he still seems to have somewhat of a noodle arm to me. That isnt to say that he cant make deep passes, but he doesnt seem to have an above average NFL arm.

Think back the last jets game. When JP came in the game, his arm strength was a world of difference compared to Trent's. This is my biggest concern about TE. He can develop all he can, be as smart as he can be, tough as he can be, but if you don't have an arm in this league, you are doomed to fail. See Chad Pennington.

Chad Pennington won playoff games.

Jim Druckenmiller ended up in the XFL.

Arm strength is overrated. With the right talent surrounding him, even a noodle arm like Holcomb or Pennington can succeed.

[alohabillsfan]

After watching bothe TE and JP in camp I will say this...

I was next to my brother watching both QB's at the same time (Both will drop back at the same time, throw the same routes at the same time) and I will tell you that TE can sling it with velocity.

He had just as much zip as the ball JP was throwing and I watch several of these drills on 2 different days. Anyways thats what I saw!

[dannyek71]

After watching bothe TE and JP in camp I will say this...

I was next to my brother watching both QB's at the same time (Both will drop back at the same time, throw the same routes at the same time) and I will tell you that TE can sling it with velocity.

He had just as much zip as the ball JP was throwing and I watch several of these drills on 2 different days. Anyways thats what I saw!

As far as camp goes, I will say this. In camp, JP looked much better than TE. In camp JP looked pretty decent, not great. Additionally, I remember JP's first day in camp his rookie year, he looked TERRIBLE. TE actually looked very well for a rookie. Take it for what its worth.

I am a TE supporter, and hope he does well. We are still a long long way from seeing if he is the answer.

[justasportsfan]

I am a TE supporter, and hope he does well. We are still a long long way from seeing if he is the answer.
some posters here have him enshrined in canton already.

[acehole]

Just because he is throwing shorter passes and checking down like Holcomb does not mean he has a weak arm. He is a rookie and playing smart. As he gains exp and confidence the longer throws will come.

His arm strength coming out of college was a strength not a weakness.

He also has a very quick release.

College and NFL are very different.

I dont think the longball arm was in
questioned by scouts so much as
accuracy in the long ball. We all
assumed since the coaches did not call
as much longball plays or did but
Edwards was more comfortable with
a 2 yard pass to a rb that the short
game was his comfort zone. If the
coaches did not call them then they
must know somthing you dont. If they
did and he decided to check down then
it could be his confidence level or trust
factor with his recievers. Waiting for longball
pass plays to develop take time in the pocket
also....mayby his "injury prone" status in school
and in the NFL plays into it. The less you expose yourself
the less you can get hurt. He was hurt alot in school no
question about that. Who knows. It wont mater much as
they will be looking for possesion type recievers for him not
burners per say. They are cheaper...more abundant and suited
for this offense with his skill set. They also are a better fit for cold weather..
and to help block in the running game. We have to run the ball in December
to have a chance against the likes of the Pats,Pitts,Denver. Long ball offenses
might be exciting but are useless in the snow. Having said that you still need to
be a threat in this area ala Ben Roth if you are going to keep deffenses honest. If
some of you have seen enough of his abilities in this area fine. Not enough data yet as I have not seen him do it with great accuracy over a long enough period of time without picks in the NFL.....YET. Different then he "can't".

[acehole]

Chad Pennington won playoff games.

Jim Druckenmiller ended up in the XFL.

Arm strength is overrated. With the right talent surrounding him, even a noodle arm like Holcomb or Pennington can succeed.

Yes and Cad Mcnown was a huge bust and Elway was the man.

So lets move along...

[deepslant]

Who would rather have a cannon attached to a grade school child versus an uzi on our brainiac trent? Trent gets "it" and JP, well what can you say his record speaks for itself.

[acehole]

Who would rather have a cannon attached to a grade school child versus an uzi on our brainiac trent? Trent gets "it" and JP, well what can you say his record speaks for itself.

Is a smart Qb that wont take a chance with a school boys arm a choice?

[deepslant]

Is a smart Qb that wont take a chance with a school boys arm a choice?
Open your school book to page 11 and read after me "30 yard pass over linebacker to Josh Reed in 4 man coverage with 20 seconds remaining" and now repeat twenty times until you get it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

so the draft magazines that are meaningless when they suggest Marv's picks are a "reach" are suddenly accurate when it comes to evaluating Edwards?

I think we simply don't have enough information yet. One one hand, Edwards is probably checking down because he's a rookie still learning to read D's and doesn't want to throw the pick. On the other hand, he doesn't really go down field and does seem to lack a little "zip" on sideline routes. Just because he doesn't go downfield does not necessarily mean he can't, but I'm not going to believe he can until he proves it.

It's too bad that we have a complete quarterback divided amongst two players. JP has the big arm and the fast legs while Trent has the precision and understanding to consistently move the ball. If we could put Trent's head on JP's body, we'd have our QB.
Who ever said Edwards was a reach Op? Maybe some did but not me. I and others may have thought that QB was not a need in the third but I thought Everyone including the draft coverage thought it was a good value pick.

[justasportsfan]

Who ever said Edwards was a reach Op? Maybe some did but not me. I and others may have thought that QB was not a need in the third but I thought Everyone including the draft coverage thought it was a good value pick.
:hi5:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Who would have thought that OP hates Edwards too!!!! :ill:

[justasportsfan]

Who would have thought that OP hates Edwards too!!!! :ill:
Where's Hughes now? The cb that he wanted us to draft instead of Trent?

[OpIv37]

Who ever said Edwards was a reach Op? Maybe some did but not me. I and others may have thought that QB was not a need in the third but I thought Everyone including the draft coverage thought it was a good value pick.

I was thinking more of Whitner and McCargo- the reason some people called them "reaches" was because of where they were ranked in those same draft magazines- but the homers shouted those people down and said that those magazines are worthless.

I'm not accusing you of doing this, but it seems like there are a lot of people around here who rate a certain publications' or media outlets' credibility based on whether or not the publication is saying what they want to hear.

[OpIv37]

Where's Hughes now? The cb that he wanted us to draft instead of Trent?

I'll stop hating the moves when the moves start helping us win.

[OpIv37]

Who would have thought that OP hates Edwards too!!!! :ill:


I don't hate Edwards- I agree he has "upside" and I understand that he's only a rookie. I just think there are a few people around here getting very excited about him despite the fact that all he's shown is "potential"- he hasn't really done anything yet.

[justasportsfan]

I'll stop hating the moves when the moves start helping us win.
what do you think Trent has done?One things for sure, Hughes wouldn't have done anything more than Trent has done for this team.


Sheez, I'm caught in between you and the Trent homers.

[OpIv37]

what do you think Trent has done?One things for sure, Hughes wouldn't have done anything more than Trent has done for this team.


Sheez, I'm caught in between you and the Trent homers.

no but if we didn't have Trent we would have kept Holcomb and had the same results. So it's premature to say Trent was the right selection.

[jmb1099]

Urrrgghh
I can't believe this discussion even exists at this point.
He isn't awesome, he doesn't suck, he's a rookie. But he's made some really nice plays and thrown some bone headed picks. But he's a rookie. There is no way to know if he is the qb of the future or not, but give credit and blame where its due. He made some beautiful throws yesterday, so for the love of whatever, enjoy it. We won yesterday, enjoy it.

[camelcowboy]

Where's Hughes now? The cb that he wanted us to draft instead of Trent? i hated the edwards pick, i wanted Hughes who is the 3rd corner on a team that will probally finish second in the confrence. "Considering we have the 29th ranked pass defense maybe a corner could have helped", but edwards is a great prospect and he has changed my mind and to the people who said that he's all potential, potential led to a scoring drive in the last 58 seconds of the game against a top 10 d.

[YardRat]

I'll stop hating the moves when the moves start helping us win.

We're 6-3 over the last nine, 5-2 since the bye. There's been a lot more positive than negative after the first few weeks.

[OpIv37]

We're 6-3 over the last nine, 5-2 since the bye. There's been a lot more positive than negative after the first few weeks.

and? We're still a long shot for the playoffs.... still have a **** OC.... still don't have a QB.... still don't have any receivers or TE's.... still cant' beat anyone with a winning record....and still can't stay within 40 points of the Patriots, who are in our division. This team still has a LONG way to go and still has some fundamental problems.

[HHURRICANE]

He's played great for 5 starts as a rookie.

I don't get this board. Noodle arm? Wow.

Well Trent's the reason I'm coming to Buffalo. I'm finally going to watch a real QB playing for Buffalo.

[HHURRICANE]

and? We're still a long shot for the playoffs.... still have a **** OC.... still don't have a QB.... still don't have any receivers or TE's.... still cant' beat anyone with a winning record....and still can't stay within 40 points of the Patriots, who are in our division. This team still has a LONG way to go and still has some fundamental problems.

I agree with most of what you say because it's based on fact which is what I like.

However, can we give it a rest for a week or two considering we could beat Miami and be 7-6 with 3 to play.

[Captain gameboy]

I dont care what people say, he still seems to have somewhat of a noodle arm to me. That isnt to say that he cant make deep passes, but he doesnt seem to have an above average NFL arm.

Think back the last jets game. When JP came in the game, his arm strength was a world of difference compared to Trent's. This is my biggest concern about TE. He can develop all he can, be as smart as he can be, tough as he can be, but if you don't have an arm in this league, you are doomed to fail. See Chad Pennington.

What?

See Joe Montana.

You don't need a cannon. You need open receivers, accuracy, a quick release, and the ability to stay away from the rush.

Losman may be able to throw it further, or get more velocity, though watching them both warm up, he's not significantly different.
Losman has a slower release, and always looks excited.

Edwards is the type of guy who can get it to receivers more quickly and let them do what they do.
For now, given years of inept qb play, I'll take it.

[Throne Logic]

Even if you go with the somewhat unfounded assumption that TE's arm is weaker than JP's, you cannot dispute the other two major factors. TE's release is quicker. More importantly, his recognition is faster.

A quick recognition with a rapid release will get you further than a rocket arm. Rocket arms tend to force throws into places that they shouldn't be throwing. See Drew Bledsoe. Heck, see Bret Favre. Now compare Marino and Montana.

I like the fact that TE recognizes the opening and gets the ball out of his hand a full second before JP would. JP runs the same progression and eventually sees that he is just about to loose his opening and tries to riffle the ball into a now closing hole.

[BidsJr]

Even if you go with the somewhat unfounded assumption that TE's arm is weaker than JP's, you cannot dispute the other two major factors. TE's release is quicker. More importantly, his recognition is faster.

A quick recognition with a rapid release will get you further than a rocket arm. Rocket arms tend to force throws into places that they shouldn't be throwing. See Drew Bledsoe. Heck, see Bret Favre. Now compare Marino and Montana.

I like the fact that TE recognizes the opening and gets the ball out of his hand a full second before JP would. JP runs the same progression and eventually sees that he is just about to loose his opening and tries to riffle the ball into a now closing hole.


This is an excellent post. Remember how at the beginning of the season we were wondering if we had any recievers that were getting open? Well we got the same recievers folks. If it weren't for a couple of tips and drops 70% of Trents dropbacks this week would have been completed passes.

Trent looks fantastic for how young he is in the NFL.

[DraftBoy]

Kids arm strength is good enough to play in the NFL anybody who disputes that is living in their own fantasy world. But that doesnt really mean a damn thing, hell my brother can chuck the ball 50 yards on a rope but couldnt do diddly in the NFL.

[Mahdi]

and? We're still a long shot for the playoffs.... still have a **** OC.... still don't have a QB.... still don't have any receivers or TE's.... still cant' beat anyone with a winning record....and still can't stay within 40 points of the Patriots, who are in our division. This team still has a LONG way to go and still has some fundamental problems.
What you just said is a contradiction.... We have no receivers, no TEs, no QB.... and the OC sucks.... Its called cause and effect.

[Jan Reimers]

Who ever said Edwards was a reach Op? Maybe some did but not me. I and others may have thought that QB was not a need in the third but I thought Everyone including the draft coverage thought it was a good value pick.
In fact, most knowledgable draft watchers thought Trent was a great value pick in the 3rd round. He was rated as high as the 3rd best QB, and 40th best player in the draft, by some draft guides.

Despite our other, more pressing needs, we couldn't pass him up when he fell to us in the 3rd round.

[DraftBoy]

In fact, most knowledgable draft watchers thought Trent was a great value pick in the 3rd round. He was rated as high as the 3rd best QB, and 40th best player in the draft, by some draft guides.

Despite our other, more pressing needs, we couldn't pass him up when he fell to us in the 3rd round.

Value wise he was right on target in Round 3. He was a smart pick for the situation if you look around there arent alot of other guys we could of taken who have done what he has. I didnt like the pick then, dont know, but its not bc we reached to take him. The pick was solid from a value standpoint.

[Philagape]

I dont care what people say

That sums up the pro-JP side.

[OpIv37]

What you just said is a contradiction.... We have no receivers, no TEs, no QB.... and the OC sucks.... Its called cause and effect.

The lack of talent is no excuse for the conservative play calls, and there is ZERO excuse for calling the same predictable plays over and over again.

[LtBillsFan66]

Just because he is throwing shorter passes and checking down like Holcomb does not mean he has a weak arm. He is a rookie and playing smart. As he gains exp and confidence the longer throws will come.

His arm strength coming out of college was a strength not a weakness.

He also has a very quick release.

:bf1:

[Hard Nose Football]

The lack of talent is no excuse for the conservative play calls, and there is ZERO excuse for calling the same predictable plays over and over again.
I don't care if we line up in the single wing and run the ball up the middle every play, as long as we win.

[OpIv37]

I don't care if we line up in the single wing and run the ball up the middle every play, as long as we win.

well we lost 6 times.