2008 Free Agents

[Dr. Lecter]

From today's Buffalo News:

UFA's:
Mario Haggan
Sam Aiken
Josh Stamer
Ryan Neufeld
Jason Webster
Micheal Gaines
Anthony Hargrove
Jason Whittle
Bryan Scott
Matt Murphy
Al Wallace

RFAs/ERFAs:

Jim Leonhard
Jason Jefferson
Tim Massaquoi

Not much on either list. Bring back Hargrove, Gaines, Whittle and Leonhard. Probably either Stamer or Haggan.

Other than that, I think these guys are replacable.

The good news is this offseason, priority one can be extending Evans and then (with any luck) the Bills can sign at least 2 out of 4 positions: #2 WR, TE, CB and OLB. A veteran back-up QB will be needed, somebody like Brad Johnson (just an example).

This could be a productive offseason if handled correctly.

[DraftBoy]

Resign-
Gaines
Hargrove
Scott
Stamer

[Mahdi]

Resign-
Gaines
Hargrove
Scott
Stamer
With Ko back healthy and Wilson and Leonard I doubt Scott is back. Wendling is also probably going to make it. I also prefer to keep Haggan. He has at least done a few things on defense. Stamer is only ST.

[Dr. Lecter]

Wendling will be back, at least for TC. He is only a rookie.

[DraftBoy]

With Ko back healthy and Wilson and Leonard I doubt Scott is back. Wendling is also probably going to make it. I also prefer to keep Haggan. He has at least done a few things on defense. Stamer is only ST.

I dont have them keeping Leonard

Scott has come up very big this year on blitzes and in the backfield, he's outplayed Leonard imo.

[Mahdi]

I dont have them keeping Leonard

Scott has come up very big this year on blitzes and in the backfield, he's outplayed Leonard imo.
I agree he has made plays.... just that he's a lot older than Leonard who might have more upside.

[Dr. Lecter]

Since he is restricted, they might as well bring Leonhard back for TC.

[Don't Panic]

Gaines and Hargrove are the two I'd definitely like to see back... management can sort out the rest.

[Romes]

that list is a relief.

with no major losses, 4 day one picks, and a couple FA this team better be in the playoffs next year.

[Mahdi]

that list is a relief.

with no major losses, 4 day one picks, and a couple FA this team better be in the playoffs next year.
We dont have 4 day one picks anymore.... day one is only the first and second round I believe since Goodell made changes.... still means the same thing though.

[DraftBoy]

I agree he has made plays.... just that he's a lot older than Leonard who might have more upside.

Ive seen nothing in Leonard to suggest upside at all, have you?

[don137]

The question big question is if we sign Evans to an extension then where does this live the Bills as far as salary cap goes to bring in some help at WR, LB (Ellison is not the answer) and DT. I truly think they go after a veteran WR. WR take a while to get acclimated to the position in the NFL. That is why they need a proven veteran.
One has to think Losman will not be extended and probably traded to the Bears or some other team.

[Mahdi]

Ive seen nothing in Leonard to suggest upside at all, have you?
He reads the passing game pretty well,,,, had a nice pick before getting injured.

[Romes]

We dont have 4 day one picks anymore.... day one is only the first and second round I believe since Goodell made changes.... still means the same thing though.

you're right. i had forgot about that.

...4 picks in the top 100

[Dr. Lecter]

The question big question is if we sign Evans to an extension then where does this live the Bills as far as salary cap goes to bring in some help at WR, LB (Ellison is not the answer) and DT. I truly think they go after a veteran WR. WR take a while to get acclimated to the position in the NFL. That is why they need a proven veteran.
One has to think Losman will not be extended and probably traded to the Bears or some other team.

As much as people ***** about the "Cash to Cap" approach, what it does is give the Bills room every year. So they have to room to make moves. Kelsay, Dockery and Walker had much of their bonus money count this year.

So all is well.

[HHURRICANE]

Honestly, if we lost everyone on this list it would not be devastating.

Hargrove, who I like, is not starting grade material so if we can get him reasonably I would keep him but not go crazy.

Gaines has been a pleasant surprise but any time a TE in Buffalo makes a catch it's so shocking that sometimes we overrate guys. Cieslak can't even stay on our roster and he looked good last year.

[HHURRICANE]

As much as people ***** about the "Cash to Cap" approach, what it does is give the Bills room every year. So they have to room to make moves. Kelsay, Dockery and Walker had much of their bonus money count this year.

So all is well.

Ironically, Kelsay, Walker, and Dockery were all good signings.

Schobel is probably the only one where I would be shaking my head.

[Wys Guy]

From today's Buffalo News:

UFA's:
Mario Haggan
Sam Aiken
Josh Stamer
Ryan Neufeld
Jason Webster
Micheal Gaines
Anthony Hargrove
Jason Whittle
Bryan Scott
Matt Murphy
Al Wallace

RFAs/ERFAs:

Jim Leonhard
Jason Jefferson
Tim Massaquoi

Not much on either list. Bring back Hargrove, Gaines, Whittle and Leonhard. Probably either Stamer or Haggan.

Other than that, I think these guys are replacable.

The good nes is this offseason, priority one can be extending Evans and then (with any luck) the Bills can sign at least 2 out of 4 positions: #2 WR, TE, CB and OLB. A veteran back-up QB will be needed, somebody like Brad Johnson (just an example).

This could be a productive offseason if handled correctly.

LOL Yeah, "if handled correctly." When's the last time that that happened, eh.

Let me ask you Lechter, which of the players on our team would not be "replaceable" via either FAcy or the draft, likely the former more than the latter?

And I ask the question seriously, not in jest. I'm thinkin' Evans, but he isn't used properly/effectively. Say what we want about Lynch, but outside of his injury he hasn't done anymore than what McGahee did, although granted, he's "looked better" doing it in a vote for style over substance there.

Dockery's been decent but given his contract a disappointment IMO. I also don't think that anyone would argue that Peters certainly hasn't met our expectations, although there too, no less than average. Walker, well, there's disagreement here on him, but I'm just not seeing that he was worth his deal either. He utterly stinks against any team with a good pass rush.

On D, I see few players that couldn't easily "be replaced" at this point. Schobel seems to have fallen off the map following his massive drop in weight, not unpredictably. He'll be 31 next season and on the wrong side of his prime. We just paid him more too. Kelsay's been good but only in contrast with the rest of our sorry D.

I'm simply not seeing any "franchise players" here at all, and struggling to find players that cannot be replaced, + or -, relatively easily off the FAcy lists and/or via the draft.

We could say Poz but he is largely mystery meat at this point. He does not appear headed for bust clearly, but I didn't see much to tell us that he'll be playing like Patrick Willis or anything, or even close for that matter.

Whitner may be our best player and I might argue that he wouldn't be easily replaceable. Otherwise I really don't see anyone. More Langston Walkers and Derrick Dockerys will be available this and every year in FAcy. That's precisely where we got those two.

Frankly, I have no idea why our entire coaching staff is getting a pass from so many. The offensive side of our coaching, where all of the so-called improvements were made is utterly pathetic and brain dead. The D side has done more with less in a collection of players overachieving but even then only being able to post good games against the likes of teams we've beaten tallying an aggregate record of 19-53 to date for the batch of the six team-games we've won there. Otherwise we get steamrolled.

Regardless, of that entire list, the only players that I would even bother with, particularly, at other than vet min are Stamer, who's an excellent STs player but nothing more. Gaines not b/c he's a great TE, but b/c he's presently the best in a batch of mediocre/submediocre talent there. And Hargrove, although I wouldn't do much more than vet min there either. This team relegates starting status" to inconsequential with its system of proportionally playing like five players at both the DE and DT spots. We need one solid player at each position, not three.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I agree he has made plays.... just that he's a lot older than Leonard who might have more upside.
They are virtually the same age. Leonard is 25 and Scott is 26....

[THATHURMANATOR]

LOL Yeah, "if handled correctly." When's the last time that that happened, eh.

Let me ask you Lechter, which of the players on our team would not be "replaceable" via either FAcy or the draft, likely the former more than the latter?

And I ask the question seriously, not in jest. I'm thinkin' Evans, but he isn't used properly/effectively. Say what we want about Lynch, but outside of his injury he hasn't done anymore than what McGahee did, although granted, he's "looked better" doing it in a vote for style over substance there.

Dockery's been decent but given his contract a disappointment IMO. I also don't think that anyone would argue that Peters certainly hasn't met our expectations, although there too, no less than average. Walker, well, there's disagreement here on him, but I'm just not seeing that he was worth his deal either. He utterly stinks against any team with a good pass rush.

On D, I see few players that couldn't easily "be replaced" at this point. Schobel seems to have fallen off the map following his massive drop in weight, not unpredictably. He'll be 31 next season and on the wrong side of his prime. We just paid him more too. Kelsay's been good but only in contrast with the rest of our sorry D.

I'm simply not seeing any "franchise players" here at all, and struggling to find players that cannot be replaced, + or -, relatively easily off the FAcy lists and/or via the draft.

We could say Poz but he is largely mystery meat at this point. He does not appear headed for bust clearly, but I didn't see much to tell us that he'll be playing like Patrick Willis or anything, or even close for that matter.

Whitner may be our best player and I might argue that he wouldn't be easily replaceable. Otherwise I really don't see anyone. More Langston Walkers and Derrick Dockerys will be available this and every year in FAcy. That's precisely where we got those two.

Frankly, I have no idea why our entire coaching staff is getting a pass from so many. The offensive side of our coaching, where all of the so-called improvements were made is utterly pathetic and brain dead. The D side has done more with less in a collection of players overachieving but even then only being able to post good games against the likes of teams we've beaten tallying an aggregate record of 19-53 to date for the batch of the six team-games we've won there. Otherwise we get steamrolled.

Regardless, of that entire list, the only players that I would even bother with, particularly, at other than vet min are Stamer, who's an excellent STs player but nothing more. Gaines not b/c he's a great TE, but b/c he's presently the best in a batch of mediocre/submediocre talent there. And Hargrove, although I wouldn't do much more than vet min there either. This team relegates starting status" to inconsequential with its system of proportionally playing like five players at both the DE and DT spots. We need one solid player at each position, not three.
You always start off your rants with an LOL laugh... HILARIOUS!

[Wys Guy]

As much as people ***** about the "Cash to Cap" approach, what it does is give the Bills room every year. So they have to room to make moves. Kelsay, Dockery and Walker had much of their bonus money count this year.

So all is well.

Cash to cap would carry more weight if the team were good. Who cares how much money you have to sign players if your team sucks. Let's be honest here, we barely edged the bottom of the barrel for most of our wins. We're well below average in just about every significant statistical efficiency indicator, again. The best argument that can be made is that were marginally better than all of the teams we've beaten.

I, and many others, will be far more impressed, with whatever salary cap management method the team uses, if we have a playoff caliber football team taking the field on Sundays. Right now we're as far from that, if not further, than when the Ivy League Dynamic Duo took the reigns.

They've dropped the ball to about the maximum extent possible offensively speaking since they got here with no improvement in sight. After Evans leaves following next year, perhaps this season if he/his agent make enough waves, we'll be set even further back.

I cannot at all agree with Hurricane's assessment that Dockery or Walker were worth their deals. Dockery has an awful lot of penalties it seems for a G. He's good but not great by any stretch. Kelsay wasn't a bad signing best case although it was no great bargain either and I would argue that we also overpaid for a P/T player as the system has designed it in the ILDD's "genius."

I still long for the day when we had three/four DL-men that started and took 90+% of the snaps and did it effectively. I've never seen players in the F7 rotate, anywhere on any team, as I have here in Buffalo and ditto for DL-men, not just the DEs, but DTs too, dropping into pass coverage. Idiocy.

We should be shaking our heads on Scobel's signing, but with Kelsay's signing, that was pretty much mandated. Again, good management?

[Wys Guy]

You always start off your rants with an LOL laugh... HILARIOUS!

Interesting.

And yours are usually laden with completely unsubstantive tripe.

Your point?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Interesting.

And yours are usually laden with completely unsubstantive tripe.

Your point?
MMM MMM GOOD!

<img src=http://www.bunrab.com/dailyfeed/dailyfeed_images_aug-06/df06_08-06_tripe.jpg>

[THATHURMANATOR]

Oh I forgot to laugh first and proclaim the rest of the people in this thread mental midgets! Dammit!!!

[Dr. Lecter]

Oh I forgot to laugh first and proclaim the rest of the people in this thread mental midgets! Dammit!!!

lol!

You would be amusing if you had any idea what you were talking about instead of being a blind Bills apologist.

[THATHURMANATOR]

lol!

You would be amusing if you had any idea what you were talking about instead of being a blind Bills apologist.
LOL eh I know I am a fool.

[bigbub2352]

Gaines, Hargrove, Scott, and Massaqoi i would bring back, i like the way the first 3 have played here and i think they will provide good depth, and contribute un like others on that list, Massaqoui i would like to see what he could do considering Nuefeld is a bum, he might be able to provide something in the TE ranks or even a big WR, like at Mich other than that bye bye to everyone else

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

When did Tim Massaquoi become a Bill?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Lets draft a good TE for once.

[Wys Guy]

Oh I forgot to laugh first and proclaim the rest of the people in this thread mental midgets! Dammit!!!

Interesting as to how things play out sometimes, eh.

(See post #22)

[THATHURMANATOR]

Interesting as to how things play out sometimes, eh.

(See post #22)
Not really. :ill:

[bigbub2352]

When did Tim Massaquoi become a Bill?

I am pretty sure we signed him after Matt Murphy got put on IR, and a week after we lost Schouman, cause they brought him and Czeislak back

[TigerJ]

There's not a difference maker in the bunch. I like Hargrove and a few others, but the fact that they're all no names bodes very well for Buffalo in the offseason. They won't have to spend much money at all on their own free agents, and as far under the cap as they are, they should be in great shape to go out and get some solid free agents from other teams.

[patmoran2006]

From today's Buffalo News:

UFA's:
Mario Haggan
Sam Aiken
Josh Stamer
Ryan Neufeld
Jason Webster
Micheal Gaines
Anthony Hargrove
Jason Whittle
Bryan Scott
Matt Murphy
Al Wallace

RFAs/ERFAs:

Jim Leonhard
Jason Jefferson
Tim Massaquoi

Not much on either list. Bring back Hargrove, Gaines, Whittle and Leonhard. Probably either Stamer or Haggan.

Other than that, I think these guys are replacable.

The good nes is this offseason, priority one can be extending Evans and then (with any luck) the Bills can sign at least 2 out of 4 positions: #2 WR, TE, CB and OLB. A veteran back-up QB will be needed, somebody like Brad Johnson (just an example).

This could be a productive offseason if handled correctly.
Good post. I agree 100%.

2 out of those 4 positions via FA would be good. When I say 2 of 4 though, I"m not talking Matt Bowen or Robert Royal-impact signings.

They can go out and get TWO QUALITY FA's this offseason, for sure. They're in great cap shape, they're going to trade or cut Losman as well.

Id really like to see them take a run at an IMPACT LB like lance briggs (who's played better than Urlacher this year). I think they need impact there, it would help their woeful 3rd down stop %. IF possible (dont know the market yet), I'd love to see them get a CB who is at LEAST as good as McGee.

Maybe sign a decent TE who can catch the ball more than 3 yards away from the line,a nd use a first rounder on a future stud WR.

[Mr. Pink]

I only see 2 guys on all of that, that we should keep.

The rest are fringe players that don't matter what happens to them, IMO.

We need to keep Hargrove and Gaines for the second TE.

Outside of that it's a who's who list of garbage and who cares.

[Mahdi]

I only see 2 guys on all of that, that we should keep.

The rest are fringe players that don't matter what happens to them, IMO.

We need to keep Hargrove and Gaines for the second TE.

Outside of that it's a who's who list of garbage and who cares.
Well I wouldnt want to completely gut our special teams. I would keep Haggan around for a modest price. He has shown that he can play D as well especially in goal-line/short yardage situations.

[Akhippo]

Aiken for ST's only. We have seen how that part has slipped when you dont have the quality players playing.

Gaines is my pick over Royal any day.
Hargrove who brings it on every play. Even if he is second string.
I would bring back Scott over Leonard. Scott is alot bigger and more of a force in the rush. He has made more plays than Leonard by far.

The others can be dealt with accordingly.

[Mitchy moo]

The whole list is littered with guys who we can improve at their positions, no real losses.

Hargrove should stick and Josh to keep Shelby happy, :crush: .

[ParanoidAndroid]

LOL Yeah, "if handled correctly." When's the last time that that happened, eh.

Let me ask you Lechter, which of the players on our team would not be "replaceable" via either FAcy or the draft, likely the former more than the latter?

And I ask the question seriously, not in jest. I'm thinkin' Evans, but he isn't used properly/effectively. Say what we want about Lynch, but outside of his injury he hasn't done anymore than what McGahee did, although granted, he's "looked better" doing it in a vote for style over substance there.

Dockery's been decent but given his contract a disappointment IMO. I also don't think that anyone would argue that Peters certainly hasn't met our expectations, although there too, no less than average. Walker, well, there's disagreement here on him, but I'm just not seeing that he was worth his deal either. He utterly stinks against any team with a good pass rush.

On D, I see few players that couldn't easily "be replaced" at this point. Schobel seems to have fallen off the map following his massive drop in weight, not unpredictably. He'll be 31 next season and on the wrong side of his prime. We just paid him more too. Kelsay's been good but only in contrast with the rest of our sorry D.

I'm simply not seeing any "franchise players" here at all, and struggling to find players that cannot be replaced, + or -, relatively easily off the FAcy lists and/or via the draft.

We could say Poz but he is largely mystery meat at this point. He does not appear headed for bust clearly, but I didn't see much to tell us that he'll be playing like Patrick Willis or anything, or even close for that matter.

Whitner may be our best player and I might argue that he wouldn't be easily replaceable. Otherwise I really don't see anyone. More Langston Walkers and Derrick Dockerys will be available this and every year in FAcy. That's precisely where we got those two.

Frankly, I have no idea why our entire coaching staff is getting a pass from so many. The offensive side of our coaching, where all of the so-called improvements were made is utterly pathetic and brain dead. The D side has done more with less in a collection of players overachieving but even then only being able to post good games against the likes of teams we've beaten tallying an aggregate record of 19-53 to date for the batch of the six team-games we've won there. Otherwise we get steamrolled.

Regardless, of that entire list, the only players that I would even bother with, particularly, at other than vet min are Stamer, who's an excellent STs player but nothing more. Gaines not b/c he's a great TE, but b/c he's presently the best in a batch of mediocre/submediocre talent there. And Hargrove, although I wouldn't do much more than vet min there either. This team relegates starting status" to inconsequential with its system of proportionally playing like five players at both the DE and DT spots. We need one solid player at each position, not three.

See if you can make your posts any more droll. Wait....never mind. I'd rather read substance and an actual sense of humor.
(Set to ignore)

[Mr. Miyagi]

MMM MMM GOOD!

<img src=http://www.bunrab.com/dailyfeed/dailyfeed_images_aug-06/df06_08-06_tripe.jpg>
:hungry:

[Mr. Miyagi]

Maybe sign a decent TE who can catch the ball more than 3 yards away from the line,a nd use a first rounder on a future stud WR.
That was supposed to be Everett this year. :ill:

[Mahdi]

That was supposed to be Everett this year. :ill:
If we cant get a TE in the draft i would send JP to Chicago for TE Desmond Clark. They have Greg Olsen now so I think it would be a great trade for both teams.

[ParanoidAndroid]

So, anyway....

Hargrove is the only no-brainer there, IMO. Leonhard is a decent player because he has the smarts. He's not the greatest cover safety...he seems to look into the backfield too long.

We could use a true pass rusher at DE. Schobel is good but is showing what I have always thought....that he is a coverage sack artist.

We need players at DE, WR, and LB. If we draft well, we should be a nice looking young team with not just potential, but real promise.

[YardRat]

LOL Yeah, "if handled correctly." When's the last time that that happened, eh.

Let me ask you Lechter, which of the players on our team would not be "replaceable" via either FAcy or the draft, likely the former more than the latter?

And I ask the question seriously, not in jest. I'm thinkin' Evans, but he isn't used properly/effectively. Say what we want about Lynch, but outside of his injury he hasn't done anymore than what McGahee did, although granted, he's "looked better" doing it in a vote for style over substance there.

Dockery's been decent but given his contract a disappointment IMO. I also don't think that anyone would argue that Peters certainly hasn't met our expectations, although there too, no less than average. Walker, well, there's disagreement here on him, but I'm just not seeing that he was worth his deal either. He utterly stinks against any team with a good pass rush.

On D, I see few players that couldn't easily "be replaced" at this point. Schobel seems to have fallen off the map following his massive drop in weight, not unpredictably. He'll be 31 next season and on the wrong side of his prime. We just paid him more too. Kelsay's been good but only in contrast with the rest of our sorry D.

I'm simply not seeing any "franchise players" here at all, and struggling to find players that cannot be replaced, + or -, relatively easily off the FAcy lists and/or via the draft.

We could say Poz but he is largely mystery meat at this point. He does not appear headed for bust clearly, but I didn't see much to tell us that he'll be playing like Patrick Willis or anything, or even close for that matter.

Whitner may be our best player and I might argue that he wouldn't be easily replaceable. Otherwise I really don't see anyone. More Langston Walkers and Derrick Dockerys will be available this and every year in FAcy. That's precisely where we got those two.

Frankly, I have no idea why our entire coaching staff is getting a pass from so many. The offensive side of our coaching, where all of the so-called improvements were made is utterly pathetic and brain dead. The D side has done more with less in a collection of players overachieving but even then only being able to post good games against the likes of teams we've beaten tallying an aggregate record of 19-53 to date for the batch of the six team-games we've won there. Otherwise we get steamrolled.

Regardless, of that entire list, the only players that I would even bother with, particularly, at other than vet min are Stamer, who's an excellent STs player but nothing more. Gaines not b/c he's a great TE, but b/c he's presently the best in a batch of mediocre/submediocre talent there. And Hargrove, although I wouldn't do much more than vet min there either. This team relegates starting status" to inconsequential with its system of proportionally playing like five players at both the DE and DT spots. We need one solid player at each position, not three.

How many games did you have the Bills winning in your pre-season prediction?

[patmoran2006]

From the looks of that list, and what we have available to spend should we choose; it seems there's nowhere to go via FA but up (for once)

[PECKERWOOD]

Everyone on that list is replaceable, imo. Hargrove hasn't done jack since he has been here and this I'm sorry to say because I had high hopes for him this season.