Losman is worth a minimum 2nd rounder!!

[HHURRICANE]

After watching how crappy the QB play is in the league this year I am extremely confident that Losman leaves town for, at worst, a 2nd rounder.

Steve young was saying how bad the talent level is at that position right now and after watching the Falcons game I think a team like the Falcons is going to be more than happy to take a shot on JP.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Atlanta would much rather have Brohm.

But JP would be a good fit there too.

[YardRat]

You're dreaming.

If we get more than a fifth I'll be stunned.

[HHURRICANE]

Atlanta would much rather have Brohm.

But JP would be a good fit there too.

Atlanta has already said that any rookie that they take will be sitting on the bench the entire first year.

Losman would be a good fit but there are other teams as well.

[HHURRICANE]

You're dreaming.

If we get more than a fifth I'll be stunned.

No, I'm being dead serious and I'm going to be right. I'll bet money on it.

Look what's going to be available out there. His numbers are not horrible and a team is going to take a chance on his big arm.

[YardRat]

Back-ups are a dime-a-dozen.

[DMBcrew36]

I'd say the most he is worth is a 3rd.

[MikeInRoch]

I'd love to get a second, I just don't think we will.

I'd take a third if he goes to Miami to re-unite with Mularky. Please? Pretty please?

[mayotm]

I'm guessing a 3rd or 4th.

[HHURRICANE]

Back-ups are a dime-a-dozen.

Nobody is going to trade for JP with the intent that he's playing as the backup.

Now do I think he's a starter? No way. But teams are desperate right now and somebody is going to play him as the starter.

[Devin]

Im with Yardrat, id be stunned if we got better then a 5th for him.

[Tatonka]

he did have 20 tds and 14 picks last year..

i think he definately has some value. 2nd round value? i dont know.

[Tatonka]

was AJ Feeley worth a 2nd rounder?

was Rob Johnson worth a 1st?

was Blew Dredso worth 2 firsts?

**** happens.

[User Manuel]

Good news:

He is signed for next year and cheap.

Bad News:

He has sucked
Poor Return for QBs the last few years.

[Oaf]

Losman could be a capable starter if he learns to play with some consistency. If a team thinks they can instill that in him, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go for a 2nd or 3rd.

[Philagape]

There will be some sucker out there who thinks they can fix him.

[Devin]

I hope youre right.

Going into the draft with a first, 2 2nds and 2 3rds would be awesome!

[Albany,n.y.]

Here's the biggest problems trading JP-he's on the last year of his contract in 2008and there's not 1 NFL team that would trade a 2nd rounder and then pay him big bucks and name him the starter. If he doesn't get big $, then he doesn't sign an extension-no extension no decent draft choice. Here's how I rate JP on each NFL team. Remember-nobody is giving a 2nd unless they think he can be their starter & are willing to extend him. A 5th or 6th is about it-which means he might be back here next year.
Arizona-3rd behind Leinart & Warner
Atlanta-Petrino never really wanted Leftwich, but the new coach might. I can't see Atlanta going for anyone other than a rookie or a veteran they could sell as a PR move-JP doesn't fit here.
Baltimore-They already have a similar player in Boller who knows their system much better than JP would. Would they trade for JP & name him the starter over Boller and give him an extension-NO. Would they trade a 5th or 6th for him to compete with Boller-possibly.
Carolina-A lot of you have forgotten who's their #1 QB -Jake Delhomme. JP could be #2 at best. No high draft choices and contract extensions are coming from Carolina.
Chicago-Griese or Orton would be ahead of JP, even if Grossman doesn't return. I think the chances of re-signing Grossman are better than them taking JP.
Cincinnati-The day JP can hold Palmer's jock is the day Carson should retire.
Cleveland-Anderson & Quinn
Dallas -Tony Romo, no JP trade.
Denver-Cutler is entrenched for 2008
Detroit- Besides Kitna the Lions were very high on Drew Stanton-they wouldn't bring JP in to be anything but waterboy
Green Bay-Yeah, he'd get a sniff with Favre & Rodgers there
Houston-Schaub & Rosenfels would make JP 3rd at best
Indianapolis-No need to even explain this one
Jacksonville-Garard has a stranglehold on #1 and JP's play against them got him benched..
Kansas City-They will give Croyle more time, can still keep Huard around & wouldn't want to even bring in JP
Miami- He could sign as 2nd stringer to Beck if Lemon leaves. Miami won't give the Bills a high pick for JP, although the Bills might give the Dolphins a 2nd rounder if they promise to trade for JP and guarantee he'll start for the next 5 years there.
Minnesota-He coulds compete for #2, but Jackson gets more entrenched every week.
New England Could compete for #2 because the 2 Matts are bad. JP would have to be a free agent in order to land there.
New Orleans: Could sign there if he wants to reunite with old friends in NO and back up Brees
NY Giants: In spite of what you people who don't see Eli Manning play much think, he's better than JP. JP could beat out the throwboy for #2.
NY Jets: If you think the Jets would play JP over Clemens without giving KC a full season, you're nuts.
Oakland: Jamarcus Russell was the #1 pick of the 2007 draft.
Philadelphia: They have Feeley & 2nd rounder Kolb even if McNabb is jettisoned
Pittsburgh: Ben Roethlisberger, any questions?
St. Louis: Maybe as 3rd stringer behind Bulger & Frerotte IF the Donahoe as GM rumors come true
SD: Not over Rivers, in spite of Rivers trying to impersonate JP in some games this year.
SF: If they brought JP in to compete against Smith he might have a shot, to get some games in, but SF won't be giving us any high picks.
Seattle-Not over Hasselbeck & Wallace
Tampa Bay-They have stockpiled so many QBs why not bring JP in-Rob made Tampa Bay a 1 year stop on his farewell tour of his NFL career-why not JP?
Tennessee-Not over Young
Washington-They still think more of Campbell than they ever would JP.

Now factor in that McNabb might be on the block, a comparable QB with more wins, Grossman will be a free agent. Guys like Culpepper, McCown, Gray, Lemon-who also have started are free agents. and the fact teams with a weak QB situation will be addressing QB in the draft, there's little chance that JP would bring much in a trade.
Conclusion: If JP isn't here next year & is traded, it's likely to be for another backup who needs a change of scenery-like Chris Simms or Bruce Gradkowski in Tampa Bay.

[Mitchy moo]

I hope youre right.

Going into the draft with a first, 2 2nds and 2 3rds would be awesome!

Atlanta 2nd pick is going to be like a first as well, they are going to end up in the top 5 and Brohm will not be there.

[justasportsfan]

JP might as well go and follow Fluties footseps and go to the CFL where he can hone his passing skills. He can scramble and do whatever he wants in the CFL. Unlike Flutie, he's got height and a rocket arm that will best be served in a pass happy league.

He should apply with the Argos where he won't be far from his home if it doesn't sell. I'd move to TO in a heartbeat .

[PcA125]

I dont see him going for a second round pick... maybe a 3rd or a pair of second rounders

[justasportsfan]

a conditional 3rd.

[Dont drink the water]

You're dreaming.

If we get more than a fifth I'll be stunned.


Depends on the age of the fifth. Fifths of old scotch are in high demand.

[Mahdi]

I doubt we get higher than a third since teams know we will want to unload him.

[justasportsfan]

I doubt we get higher than a third since teams know we will want to unload him.
there might be teams that want to make sure he signs with them via a trade .

[EDS]

Given what happened to similar first round failures like Leftwich, Carr, Harrington, etc., I don't think the Bills get anything better then a 4th - and they get a 4th only if they are very lucky.

[EDS]

was AJ Feeley worth a 2nd rounder?

was Rob Johnson worth a 1st?

was Blew Dredso worth 2 firsts?

**** happens.

Each of those QB's and their situations are easily distinguishable from Losman.

Feeley and Johnson returned high picks for their original teams because each did not have sufficient playing time to have their "warts" exposed. That clearly is not the case with JP. Schaub in Houston is a similar example - the Falcons got a good package from the Texans because he only had very limited playing time and was acquired based on "potential."

With Bledsoe, the Bills traded for someone who was a pro bowler and formerly considered a quality QB. JP never reached the level of Bledsoe so would not garner similar trade value.

The comparables for JP, unfortunately, really are Carr, Leftwich and Harrington - guys who have 25+ starts to their credit but failed to establish consistency and regressed in the year they were ultimately discarded by their respective teams.

Think of it from a QB needy teams perspective, why give up a top pick for Losman when you can get a guy like McCown or Lemon for free - each of whom have some upside.

Add in the fact that there appear to be three viable 1st round QBs in this draft and the market for QBs shrinks considerably. Wouldn't Atlanta rather rebuild with a potential franchise QB like Brohm then another reclamation project (they tried two this year)?

[Devin]

Atlanta 2nd pick is going to be like a first as well, they are going to end up in the top 5 and Brohm will not be there.

Which is an irrelevant argument since they wouldnt give us thier 2nd for losman AND Brohm will most likely be there.

But thanks anyway.

[patmoran2006]

After watching how crappy the QB play is in the league this year I am extremely confident that Losman leaves town for, at worst, a 2nd rounder.

Steve young was saying how bad the talent level is at that position right now and after watching the Falcons game I think a team like the Falcons is going to be more than happy to take a shot on JP.
Your nuts. Be LUCKY to get a 4th for him. NOt to be personally harsh on the guy; but he's not a good NFL quarterback and Im' sure this organization isn't the only one that knows it.

[Mahdi]

there might be teams that want to make sure he signs with them via a trade .
I suppose if the Jets could trade a 1st rounder for Doug Jolley anything can happen...

[patmoran2006]

Would've had more value had he NEVER returned to the lineup after getting hurt in Week 3 vs NE.

[Devin]

I suppose if the Jets could trade a 1st rounder for Doug Jolley anything can happen...

I believe that trade wasnt for a 1st rounder it was a swap of 1sts. I think anyway.

[Mahdi]

I believe that trade wasnt for a 1st rounder it was a swap of 1sts. I think anyway.
o yeah I think yer right.... still a horrible trade though.... ha.

[Mahdi]

I believe that trade wasnt for a 1st rounder it was a swap of 1sts. I think anyway.
They swapped their first 26th overall and their seventh or Oakland's 47th overall and 2 sixths.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2005draft/2005-04-20-jolley-jets-raiders-trade_x.htm

[Devin]

So basically Oakland moved up 21 spots.

[BillsOverDolphins]

No, I'm being dead serious and I'm going to be right. I'll bet money on it.

Look what's going to be available out there. His numbers are not horrible and a team is going to take a chance on his big arm.
how much?

[mybills]

If he leaves, what do we have..Hamdan & ?

[Akhippo]

First teir:
Ravens
Bears
Lions
Falcons
Panthers
Rams
KC

Second Tier:
Eagles
Bucs
Cards
49ers

Now take away four possible first tier for Woodson/Brohm/Ryan/Brennan and that leaves three who would think about a QB you are severally lowering your chances.

My perfect scenario would be a trade to KC for their first next year. Maybe we could pull a NE and be able to get the WR from Texas Tech.
Rolling over a pick to next year would be the wise move is he was traded.
Which I think could be had for a third.

[Rushmore]

Ok - polite question from a Browns fan without an attached agenda:

I understand that a high-pick QB can loose his lustre when his performance doesn't measure up over time. Tim Couch comes to mind for example. So if you end up trading / cutting / benching Losman, I get it. We've wasted some high picks recently ourselves.

Incidentally you may want to throw either Anderson or Quinn into the mix for teams on a desperate hunt for a QB - see 'Bears, Chicago'. I'd rather see the Browns keep the depth myself but it just may be that the Browns see a chance to reclaim the 1st rounder we gave Dallas for Quinn last year by moving Quinn or Derek Anderson in the offseason.

But - back to you guys since this is a Bills board after all - is it cut and dried already with everyone - including Jauron and the rest of the coaching staff - that Losman is gone and Edwards is da man? I haven't watched too many games this year with the Bills - lost my taste for them after I watched them destroy my Browns in Buffalo a couple of years back; coldest I've ever been in my life and watching Moorman punt was THE highlight of the 16 hour trip. Sheesh. But really - the stats between Edwards and Losman are darn similar and I'm trying to figure the appeal.

Losman seems to - well - lose. And Edwards only seems to win. But other than that (and I grant you that's a BIG difference) - what are the differences in attributes that you see as regular Bills fans / watchers? Is Edwards quicker with reads? Stronger arm? Better scrambler? What is it?

[TacklingDummy]

After watching how crappy the QB play is in the league this year I am extremely confident that Losman leaves town for, at worst, a 2nd rounder.



Did you forget how crappy JP played?

[mybills]

Is Edwards quicker with reads? Stronger arm? Better scrambler?
the first one is all, so far. And no, it's not set in stone with Jauron yet.
p.s. they both win & lose.

[HHURRICANE]

Did you forget how crappy JP played?

People, I didn't say I think he played well enough to be worth a second rounder.

After watching Steve Young last night and his comments I believe that QB is in such high demand that JP is going to garner alot more than he normally would or deserves to get.

Look around and ask yourself how he compares to other FA's or players that might be replaced or traded in the off-season.

He looks pretty darn good after you think about who else is available.

[HHURRICANE]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left colSpan=2>Career Totals (Full (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6781/career;_ylt=AjLfyheJrNyaNYHcDSqrIQn.uLYF))</TD><TD class=yspscores>37</TD><TD class=yspscores> </TD><TD class=yspscores>77.3</TD><TD class=yspscores>495</TD><TD class=yspscores>837</TD><TD class=yspscores>59.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>5627</TD><TD class=yspscores>152.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>6.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>31</TD><TD class=yspscores>29</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

When you have more TD's than INT's and are completing almost 60% of your passes, some team is going to take a decent chance on you.

At least that is what I'm thinking and hoping for.

[TacklingDummy]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left colSpan=2>Career Totals (Full (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6781/career;_ylt=AjLfyheJrNyaNYHcDSqrIQn.uLYF))</TD><TD class=yspscores>37</TD><TD class=yspscores> </TD><TD class=yspscores>77.3</TD><TD class=yspscores>495</TD><TD class=yspscores>837</TD><TD class=yspscores>59.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>5627</TD><TD class=yspscores>152.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>6.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>31</TD><TD class=yspscores>29</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

When you have more TD's than INT's and are completing almost 60% of your passes, some team is going to take a decent chance on you.

At least that is what I'm thinking and hoping for.

Check out RJ's totals. They are better than JPs. Where did he end up?

[Mitchy moo]

Check out RJ's totals. They are better than JPs. Where did he end up?

Does it matter anymore?? Stop the hate of a teammate.

[BidsJr]

Check out RJ's totals. They are better than JPs. Where did he end up?
Guess it depends on if you were the Bills when you traded for him (:

[Michael82]

He'll get at least a 3rd rounder. QBs are a major need all throughout the league. Did you guys forget who has started this season? Vinny Testeverde! David Carr! Rex Grossman! Kyle Boller! Chris Redman! Cleo Lemon! John Beck! Sage Rosenfels! Kelly Holcomb! There are a lot of ****ty QBs right now. I bet we'll get a conditional 3rd that will upgrade to a 2nd depending on whether he starts or not. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a couple picks for him.

[jamesiscool]

No, I'm being dead serious and I'm going to be right. I'll bet money on it.

Look what's going to be available out there. His numbers are not horrible and a team is going to take a chance on his big arm.

i'll bet u some zb bucks buddy.

theres no way we get any better than a 4th for him. garunteed.

[LtFinFan66]

don't hold your breath for that 2nd rounder

[Ebenezer]

conditional 4th at best.

[Devin]

But really - the stats between Edwards and Losman are darn similar and I'm trying to figure the appeal.

Losman seems to - well - lose. And Edwards only seems to win. But other than that (and I grant you that's a BIG difference) - what are the differences in attributes that you see as regular Bills fans / watchers? Is Edwards quicker with reads? Stronger arm? Better scrambler? What is it?

Losman no question is the better athlete, which at times makes it all the more frustrating. Trent certainly isnt bad in his own right but Losman physically is the far superior.

The mental aspects of the game, the stuff thats harder to teach Trent simply seems to get. Poise, pocket awareness, and a general field vision that Losman has not displayed.....or not displayed much of is what sets Trent apart.

Trent simply doesnt make many of the mistakes Losman still makes after 4 seasons.

Losman can be successful I believe that. As far as where and what it will take I dont know.

[Carlton Bailey]

When you have absolutely no intangibles to speak of, odds are you're not worth a second-round pick. If Levy bilks some other GM out of anything higher than a fifth-rounder, then it's an all-time great trade.

[don137]

I think it will be a conditional pick. If he plays great it will be as high as a second but it will more than likely be a third or forth rounder. I see Chicago as being a very likely place for Losman.

[HHURRICANE]

He'll get at least a 3rd rounder. QBs are a major need all throughout the league. Did you guys forget who has started this season? Vinny Testeverde! David Carr! Rex Grossman! Kyle Boller! Chris Redman! Cleo Lemon! John Beck! Sage Rosenfels! Kelly Holcomb! There are a lot of ****ty QBs right now. I bet we'll get a conditional 3rd that will upgrade to a 2nd depending on whether he starts or not. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a couple picks for him.

Thank you for understanding the post.

I think a conditional 3rd that could end up as a second makes perfect sense.

[mybills]

Check out RJ's totals. They are better than JPs. Where did he end up?
On a Super Bowl team. :ill:

[EDS]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysprow1 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left colSpan=2>Career Totals (Full (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6781/career;_ylt=AjLfyheJrNyaNYHcDSqrIQn.uLYF))</TD><TD class=yspscores>37</TD><TD class=yspscores> </TD><TD class=yspscores>77.3</TD><TD class=yspscores>495</TD><TD class=yspscores>837</TD><TD class=yspscores>59.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>5627</TD><TD class=yspscores>152.1</TD><TD class=yspscores>6.7</TD><TD class=yspscores>31</TD><TD class=yspscores>29</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

When you have more TD's than INT's and are completing almost 60% of your passes, some team is going to take a decent chance on you.

At least that is what I'm thinking and hoping for.

Again, no way the Bills get even a third for JP. JP, like it or not, is comparable to Byron Leftwich and David Carr. Neither yielded anything for their original teams.

For the record, career stats:

JP = 59.1% completion, 31 TDs and 29 INTs.
Carr = 59.7% completion, 81 TDs and 70 INTs.
Leftwich = 58.6% completion, 52 TDs and 38 INTs.

All three played in offenses that were missin critical pieces (i.e., JP "maybe" played in a bad system and lacked a #2 receiver; Carr lacked consistent running game and a #2 receiver; Leftwich lacked #1 receiver).

Why would teams not want Carr and Leftwich yet give up a high pick for Losman?

[justasportsfan]

Check out RJ's totals. They are better than JPs. Where did he end up?


Robs career NFL stat nos. are more impressive than Fluties. what's your point?

[Bill Cody]

Thank you for understanding the post.

I think a conditional 3rd that could end up as a second makes perfect sense.

Maybe to you. That is pure fantasy. If Lossman yields more than a 6th I'll be shocked.

[Mr. Pink]

Hurricane and Mikey, in order for me to further go along with what you're saying...

What teams are gonna be willing to give up a 2nd for JP?

Remember, if someone gives up that high of a pick they are gonna think of JP as starting material, not just a backup.

[trapezeus]

Losman no question is the better athlete, which at times makes it all the more frustrating. Trent certainly isnt bad in his own right but Losman physically is the far superior.

The mental aspects of the game, the stuff thats harder to teach Trent simply seems to get. Poise, pocket awareness, and a general field vision that Losman has not displayed.....or not displayed much of is what sets Trent apart.

Trent simply doesnt make many of the mistakes Losman still makes after 4 seasons.

Losman can be successful I believe that. As far as where and what it will take I dont know.

I'd also add that Losman's stats are usually padded from 2 or 3 4th quarter drives that have no bearing on the outcome. If you look at Trents stats after the first half and JP's, you'd see Trent having a decent day and getting the TOP battle. Jp's would be like 3 of 9 for 45 yards and a bunch of three and outs. So i'm not sure how much the stats tell you.

Trent gets the ball out quickly, you actually see his head turn as he looks at all his options, and the oline and the running game seems to be more effective with a QB who can make the right reads.

Losman locks on a guy, usually the guy running the longest pattern, throws to him regardless or scrambles a bit. He doesn't hit the short pass at all. Very few times do you see YAC because the passes are fairly inaccurate. And the Oline looks worse because they have no idea what he's doing or how much time he needs and the run game gets totally stuffed because the D knows to just bring it every down.

[Akhippo]

I think the logic with any team looking at JP is that he is still young and has gotten the grind of the nfl down. JP isnt that bad of a QB, he has the measurables and just needs the teaching for the fundamentals.
All teams think they are smarter than the others. Also teams seem to favor measurables first and reality second, hence J Russell being picked first and he cant even see the field over all the QB's in OAK.
Also maybe the yankings will be a good thing for us. Teams will think Buf screwed up his progress by being indecisive.

[colin]

a 2 for loserman would be great.

not likely, but it would be awesome.

if we trade him to miami he can be back with mularky, and we'd get the 33rd pick!!

[Albany,n.y.]

He'll get at least a 3rd rounder. QBs are a major need all throughout the league. Did you guys forget who has started this season? Vinny Testeverde! David Carr! Rex Grossman! Kyle Boller! Chris Redman! Cleo Lemon! John Beck! Sage Rosenfels! Kelly Holcomb! There are a lot of ****ty QBs right now. I bet we'll get a conditional 3rd that will upgrade to a 2nd depending on whether he starts or not. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if we get a couple picks for him.
All these guys except Grossman are backups who have played because of injuries. Teams do not trade 2nd or 3rd round picks for backup QBs. JP would not go into any situation where he'd immediately be named the starter. JP has 1 year left on his contract. If the Bills really want a 1st day pick, they're better off keeping JP as the 3rd stringer next year with the specific intent of trading him when enough other QBs go down during the season. Darrick Homes got us a 4th in season-JP could get us a 3-in season. Off season, he's worth no better than a 5 or 6.

[Albany,n.y.]

First teir:
Ravens
Bears
Lions
Falcons
Panthers
Rams
KC

Second Tier:
Eagles
Bucs
Cards
49ers

Now take away four possible first tier for Woodson/Brohm/Ryan/Brennan and that leaves three who would think about a QB you are severally lowering your chances.

My perfect scenario would be a trade to KC for their first next year. Maybe we could pull a NE and be able to get the WR from Texas Tech.
Rolling over a pick to next year would be the wise move is he was traded.
Which I think could be had for a third.
Your tiers have some serious flaws.
Tier 1:Lions have Kitna for the present & 2nd rounder Drew Stanton for the future-they're not even in tier 3.
Panthers: What part of Jake Delhomme is the starter for 2008 don't you people understand. The guy goes on IR & he is erased from half the posters' memories. They're much more likely to get a QB of the future in the draft after getting burned with a retread in Carr who was rated higher than Losman and was available for nothing after being released, which should give you a better idea of JP''s value.
Rams: Bulger got a big contract extension recently & has been banged up this year.
Now take away the 4 rookies you mentioned & you have no need for Losman among your 1st tier teams.

2nd tier:
Eagles: You can't be serious! Even if McNabb is traded (which would eliminate another tier 1 team) they traded up and drafted Kolb in the 2nd round this year. With Feeley as the prime backup/insurance if Kolb isn't ready or the fact they can just keep McNabb why would they be willing to give anything greater than a jock strap for JP?
Cards: WTF? Ever heard of Matt Leinart? IR & memory is erased again. Plus Warner is still under contract, try no tier for the Cardinals.

So we're left with the Bucs & 49ers.
The Bucs have 4 QBs + the rights to Plummer. JP rates no higher than Luke McCown, Bradkowski or even Simms.
49ers are an option-IF they are ready to give up on Smith. Considering he was the top pick in the draft 3 years ago & has been injured all year this season, he's likely to get 1 more chance. For a 5th or 6th rounder they might bring in JP, but no 3rds or better.

[Ingtar33]

anything less then an early 3rd for JP would be a rip.

look up all QB trades over the last decade.

trust me, the bill will pull a late second early 3rd for jp, no problem.

[HHURRICANE]

Hurricane and Mikey, in order for me to further go along with what you're saying...

What teams are gonna be willing to give up a 2nd for JP?

Remember, if someone gives up that high of a pick they are gonna think of JP as starting material, not just a backup.

Let me pose it to you this way:

What QB in the second round will be better than JP?

The Falcons are going to need to sell tickets and attract some fans. Other teams:

Ravens
Fins
Chiefs
Eagles
Lions
Bears
Panthers
Falcons - mentioned above
San Fran

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Ok - polite question from a Browns fan without an attached agenda:

....But - back to you guys since this is a Bills board after all - is it cut and dried already with everyone - including Jauron and the rest of the coaching staff - that Losman is gone and Edwards is da man? ....But really - the stats between Edwards and Losman are darn similar and I'm trying to figure the appeal.

Losman seems to - well - lose. And Edwards only seems to win. But other than that (and I grant you that's a BIG difference) - what are the differences in attributes that you see as regular Bills fans / watchers? Is Edwards quicker with reads? Stronger arm? Better scrambler? What is it?

There is no doubt in anyone's mind that Levy, Jauron, the coaching staff, and it appears even the owner are sold on Edwards based on his intangibles, potential and performance this season. At least, that's what I gather from a number of the comments that have been published from them about him this season.

I don't think that it is cut and dried that Losman is gone, but I can't see the Bills giving him an extension that he would accept after this season. They may hold onto him for another season as a back-up and let him go as a free agent if they can't get enough for him in trade this offseason. I think they will weigh what is offered for Losman, how much it will cost to keep/trade him vs what is going to be available in this year's draft and what it will cost to replace him (if they have to sign a FA back-up instead of draft a QB late).

Yes, Edwards' numbers are comparable to Losman's, but you have to understand that you are comparing the numbers of a rookie QB to those of a 4th year player who had 24 starts coming into this season and has played a tad more this season. You would expect Losman's numbers to be better than those of Edwards by at least a noticeable margin.

Particularly because Losman, though a little smaller, is obviously the better athlete. Edwards has a good arm and can make all of the throws, but Losman has a cannon for an arm and can make throws into the winds off of Lake Erie that other QBs can only dream about making. Losman is also much faster than Edwards, a better runner and a much more dangerous scrambler. Losman, who was compared to a young Brett Favre in his pre-draft scouting reports, has the potential to keep plays alive and make something out of nothing. Edwards is more of a conventional pocket-passer with decent mobility, but nothing to write home about.

But, when it comes to the intangibles, as has already been mentioned, Edwards has it all over Losman.

If you see the two just walk on the field, Edwards gives the appearance of being a QB, what you would expect a QB to look like, Losman doesn't exude that "whatever it is" that you expect to see in a NFL QB to the same degree at all, even after being in the league as long as he has been (although he looked a bit better in this regard this season).

As has already been mentioned, Edwards has poise and a presence that Losman doesn't once the whistle blows. As a rookie, Edwards already appears to read defenses better than Losman, appears to be better at knowing where and when to check down, and makes better use of all of his receivers rather than consistently locking onto just one receiver the way Losman continues to do all too often.

It has already been mentioned that Edwards gets the ball out of his hands faster than Losman. But, what really has impressed me is his "pocket-presence". While Losman is better equipped to run away from the pressure when the pocket breaks down, he doesn't seem to feel the rush a lot of the time and will actually turn into the pressure at times when he does feel it. Edwards, on the other hand, seems to have (or be developing) that ability to feel the rush and make just that little step that gives him enough time to get the ball out of his hand. Edwards isn't much of a runner when he gets away from the rush, but, to me, he has more "escapability" within the pocket than Losman. And, I think the difference between the two of them in this regard will only increase as Edwards gets more experience.

While Losman throws the deep ball as well as anyone in the NFL and Edwards has been reluctant to throw deep, Edwards can throw the deep ball--not as well as Losman, but well enough to be effective. Where Edwards has a significant advantage over Losman is in the short-to-medium range: Edwards is just so much more accurate than Losman. And, of course, QBs are called on to throw these passes a lot more often than the deep ball.

Even though Edwards and Losman have virtually the same number of turnovers and Losman has played more against tougher defenses, remember that Edwards is still a rookie, while Losman is the 4 year veteran. And, turnovers aren't the only measure of whether a QB is making a lot of mistakes. When you watch the two of them play, Edwards seems to protect the ball better and make fewer "killer" mistakes than Losman.

While Edwards has had some difficulty getting the ball into the end zone prior to his "breakout" game against Miami last week, he has done a much better job of "moving the chains" than Losman. Losman can give you the "big play"--and has done so more often than Edwards this season--but he also produces a lot of "3-and-outs" that tire out the defense. Edwards has been much more consistent in moving the ball in little chunks: producing several drives of 8 or more plays that resulted in only FGs, but that allowed the defense to rest and be fresher in the 4th Quarter.

Edwards still has a lot to learn and the Bills' coaches have been conservative in their play-calling to protect him and help build his confidence, but he is already at least as productive as Losman and can only get better from here. And, he wins. It took Losman until the second half of his third season, more than 16 starts, to produce his first, last-minute come-from-behind win; Edwards did that in his sixth start, two weeks ago, on the road against a pretty decent Washington defense.

So, while the numbers do not show it, there is a noticeable difference between Edwards and Losman, even at this stage of Edwards' career.

Unfortunately for Losman, he seems to have regressed this season after it looked like he was finally getting "it" the second half of last year. Right now, I see him being in the same category as Rex Grossman, David Carr and Byron Leftwich. While I think that there are teams out there that will be willing to "take a flyer" on these QBs based on their physical abilities, I'm not sure that any team is going to be willing to pay a lot, in terms of draft picks, for any one of them. While you might be getting a QB who will benefit from a change of scenery and might, suddenly, "get it", Losman, like these other QBs, just hasn't shown that he can be consistent enough for a HC or GM to hang his hat on as his franchise's starting QB. A college kid that you might be able to mold your own way into your own system is likely to appear to be a more attractive bet.

I would be surprised if the Bills were to get even as much as a conditional 3rd round pick for Losman--and would end up getting a 3rd rounder out of the deal. A 4th or 5th rounder is more likely. And, given the number of similar QBs who are going to be on the market this offseason, I wouldn't be surprised if the best offer that the Bills get for Losman is a 6th rounder. If that is the best offer the Bills can get, they might as well keep Losman as their back-up next season, while they groom a low-round draft pick to replace him as their # 2 QB, and let him go as a FA when his contract expires.

Since he isn't likely to get the kind of contract that he is likely to want (starter money) based on this season, he might be amenable to staying with the Bills, hoping to get another chance to play and show more than he did this season, if Edwards were to get hurt, rather than go to a team where he would still be the back-up and would be unfamiliar with the offense, and have little chance to shine enough to get "starter money" as a FA.

In that case, the Bills might not get anything for him, but having him as Edwards' back-up for another season might be help the team more than the player that they would get with a low-round draft pick.

[Novacane]

No, I'm being dead serious and I'm going to be right. I'll bet money on it.

Look what's going to be available out there. His numbers are not horrible and a team is going to take a chance on his big arm.



$100 says you're wrong. Deal?

[Mr. Pink]

Let me pose it to you this way:

What QB in the second round will be better than JP?

The Falcons are going to need to sell tickets and attract some fans. Other teams:

Ravens
Fins
Chiefs
Eagles
Lions
Bears
Panthers
Falcons - mentioned above
San Fran

Falcons - Brian Brohm
Ravens - Troy Smith or draft...Boller is Losman
Fins - John Beck
Chiefs - Brodie Croyle
Eagles - Kevin Kolb
Lions - Kitna isn't going anywhere and they like Stanton
Bears - Grossman is Losman's equal
Panthers - David Carr is JP's equal and Carr is what they're 3rd or 4th QB now?
Falcons - DRAFT
San Fran - Don't look for them to get a new QB when Alex Smith still hasn't proven or disproven his worth.

I can name 5 QBs in this upcoming draft that have potential to be better than JP. Brohm, Woodson, Ryan, Brennan, Henne. The 10 teams you listed won't all go different directions in 2008, guaranteed just like I can guarantee you that the Falcons draft Brohm. So where does JP have a place in this league as a starter?

The Panthers had it right, I'd rather put 44 - as of next year - Vinnie Interceptaverde out there than JP.

Look at the list above...Troy Smith is 2nd year, Croyle is 2nd or 3rd year, Kolb is second year, Beck second year, Stanton is 2nd year, Grossman is as pathetic as Losman and Chicago is likely to let him walk - why in the world would that make a lateral move? Panthers have Delhomme. Falcons are taking Brohm - guaranteed, Alex Smith 4th year. Those will be where they are at the start of next season. Losman will be in his 5th year and he is what he is, a bust.

You've taken a list of team's mostly with DRAFTED young QBs and they're gonna go out and trade for captain inconsistent? And give up a Day 1 pick to do so?

Right.

[LABillsFan]

No way does any team give the Bills higher than a conditional 4th with the cap at 3 based on playing time and performance. How about if the Bills threw in say Coy Wire . A second in 2008 and a conditonal pick in 2009?