Is this right?

[Devin]

Someone might have posted this I dont remember:

Bills Draft Picks:

1
2
3
3 (via Willis trade)
4
5
5 (via Walker trade)
6
7
7 (via Holcomb trade)

And if we are able to trade JP we could possibly add another 2nd -5th rounder?

[circlethewagons]

didnt we get an additional 6th rounder from the spikes trade? i cant remember anymore... the whole double trade for walker threw me off

[OpIv37]

it's close to right- we have 10 or 11 picks in this draft.

I hope we use 1 or 2 to trade up for an additional 2nd, or move back into the first if someone worthwhile is still available.

[blotsfan]

didnt we get an additional 6th rounder from the spikes trade? i cant remember anymore... the whole double trade for walker threw me off I think that was only if Walker didnt report but when we traded him, we lost the pick.

[LABillsFan]

The Bills were supposed to get a 6th round pick if he didn't show up. However they did get a late round pick with the dea.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-07-29-bears-trade-walker_N.htm

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4681

[TigerJ]

Spikes is having a good statistcal year in Philly, and has started every game. Since the pick in the deal was conditional, I'm assuming it escalates a little.

[LABillsFan]

Spikes is having a good statistcal year in Philly, and has started every game. Since the pick in the deal was conditional, I'm assuming it escalates a little.

I believe the conditional pick was a toss in for Holcomb. Probably a 7th. The Eagles traded him to the Vikes for an undisclosed pick in 2009 for him.

[m1orenz]

1st
2nd
3rd (willis)
3rd
4th (walker)
4th
5th
6th
7th (spikes)
7th

[Mitchy moo]

Baltimore is currently drafting 6th, Hope that one of these teams below them wins a few and baltimore continues on it's losing streak. We need another Jets win & SF win anyways to help us.

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>Baltimore (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=bal)</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>.308</TD><TD>226</TD><TD>314</TD><TD>Lost 7</TD><TD>0-5</TD><TD>1-9</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD align=left>NY Jets (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyj)</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>.231</TD><TD>239</TD><TD>315</TD><TD>Lost 1</TD><TD>2-3</TD><TD>3-6</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>St. Louis (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl)</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>.231</TD><TD>206</TD><TD>316</TD><TD>Lost 1</TD><TD>1-4</TD><TD>3-7</TD></TR><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD align=left>San Francisco (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=sfo)</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>.231</TD><TD>171</TD><TD>312</TD><TD>Lost 2</TD><TD>3-3</TD><TD>3-8</TD></TR><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>Atlanta (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=atl)</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>.231</TD><TD>185</TD><TD>306</TD><TD>Lost 4</TD><TD>1-4</TD><TD>2-7</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Bone]

Would our 2nd and two 3rd rounders get us back in the first?

[Mitchy moo]

Would our 2nd and two 3rd rounders get us back in the first?

I think it will at the end of it. Remember that we're drafting last on our own pick.:brush:

[Devin]

depending on the pick a 2nd and 3rd could do the trick. I believe the mccargo trade up in 06 was a 2nd and 3rd rounder.

[Ebenezer]

truthfully?? move some of the lower picks and move the 3rds into the 2nd...quality players and less cost.

[jamze132]

Well I don't know what the hell we are doing aquiring all those mostly pointless Day 2 picks. Two 5ths? Two 7ths? WOW! Now we have the goods to move around and make things happen!

And yes I understand we can find gems with the later picks but lets be real... I would say 90% of people drafted on day 2, end up being nothing more than camp fodder and career Special Teamers throughout their careers.

[Ebenezer]

Well I don't know what the hell we are doing aquiring all those mostly pointless Day 2 picks. Two 5ths? Two 7ths? WOW! Now we have the goods to move around and make things happen!

And yes I understand we can find gems with the later picks but lets be real... I would say 90% of people drafted on day 2, end up being nothing more than camp fodder and career Special Teamers throughout their careers.
Can I introduce you to a certain future HOF QB drafted in the 6th?

[LABillsFan]

I was reading an article yesterday about the 2008. If I can remember where I read it I'll post the link, but they were talking about teams giving away their 2008 pick like the pick to NE and to Indy I think the other team was. But they wrapped up the article by saying that it may be the teams that gave their 2008 pick away may be a sign that the draft class may not be all that great.

[clumping platelets]

Someone might have posted this I dont remember:

Bills Draft Picks:

1
2
3
3 (via Willis trade)
4
5
5 (via Walker trade)
6
7
7 (via Holcomb trade)

And if we are able to trade JP we could possibly add another 2nd -5th rounder?

Yes, pick for Walker could have been a 4th but he likely didn't meet the conditions to upgrade it

and also, it's possible the Bills qualify for a late rd (i.e. 6th or 7th) comp pick

[jamze132]

Can I introduce you to a certain future HOF QB drafted in the 6th?
Thats why I had the disclaimer of sometimes finding gems. I also said that 90% of those picks end up doing jack in the NFL.

I would try a little harder in the future to obtain Day 1 picks. The Pats seem to figure out a way to do it every year while trading their Day 2 picks for seasoned vets with stuff left in their tank like Dillon and Moss.

[DraftBoy]

Thats why I had the disclaimer of sometimes finding gems. I also said that 90% of those picks end up doing jack in the NFL.

I would try a little harder in the future to obtain Day 1 picks. The Pats seem to figure out a way to do it every year while trading their Day 2 picks for seasoned vets with stuff left in their tank like Dillon and Moss.

I think the number is closer to 60% these days, finding late Day 2/UDFA gems is becoming a more common theme, lets for example just look in our division:

NY Jets:
WR Justin McCariens
WR Jericho Cotchery
RB Leon Washington
WR Brad Smith
SS Kerry Rhodes

Miami:
LB Zach Thomas
WR Derek Hagan
RB Jesse Chatman
DE Rodrique Wright
LB Derek Pope
DE Jason Taylor (not sure on him though)

New England:
WR Wes Welker
OC Dan Koppen
QB Tom Brady
LB Adalius Thomas

Buffalo:
LT Jason Peters
RB Fred Jackson
DT Kyle Williams
LB Keith Ellison
LB Jon DiGorgio
CB Terrance McGee
CB Jabari Greer
FS Ko Simpson

These four teams alone disprove your 90% are crap theory, none of these guys listed are below 2nd string on their team and most start.

[DraftBoy]

truthfully?? move some of the lower picks and move the 3rds into the 2nd...quality players and less cost.

Id rather trade down and aquire more picks to be honest, we have a bigger problem with lack of depth and we are seeing that this year, Id rather pack the roster with guys we know fit our system as opposed to signing off the street FA like Leon Joe.

[DaBillzAhDaShiznit]

There is no way I would give up two thirds and a second for a first.

I would rather have 3 solid guys than 1 very good guy.....and pay about the same for all three!

[jamze132]

I think the number is closer to 60% these days, finding late Day 2/UDFA gems is becoming a more common theme, lets for example just look in our division:

NY Jets:
WR Justin McCariens
WR Jericho Cotchery
RB Leon Washington
WR Brad Smith
SS Kerry Rhodes

Miami:
LB Zach Thomas
WR Derek Hagan
RB Jesse Chatman
DE Rodrique Wright
LB Derek Pope
DE Jason Taylor (not sure on him though)

New England:
WR Wes Welker
OC Dan Koppen
QB Tom Brady
LB Adalius Thomas

Buffalo:
LT Jason Peters
RB Fred Jackson
DT Kyle Williams
LB Keith Ellison
LB Jon DiGorgio
CB Terrance McGee
CB Jabari Greer
FS Ko Simpson

These four teams alone disprove your 90% are crap theory, none of these guys listed are below 2nd string on their team and most start.
I said nothing about UDFA, try again to bust my crap theory stud.

[Dr. Lecter]

Id rather trade down and aquire more picks to be honest, we have a bigger problem with lack of depth and we are seeing that this year, Id rather pack the roster with guys we know fit our system as opposed to signing off the street FA like Leon Joe.

Most years, I agree, but 11 picks is a bunch. How many of those guys will be ready as depth next year? And, with 11, many will need to be.

Players like Leon Joe will always be signed in mid-season as injury replacements. With 12 players coming back from IR, there is depth on this team. The play of guys like George Wilson show that.

If there is a player the Bills are targeting in the late first or second, use the 3rds, 4ths and 5ths to move up.

[DraftBoy]

I said nothing about UDFA, try again to bust my crap theory stud.


Your theory is still crap, you cant discount UDFA just because you dont like reality, they are as elgible as anybody to be a Day 2 pick. Your threw out the generalization not me, and I only included players that I knew were Day 2 pick (Im sure there are more) and only those that are 1st or 2nd stringers.

[DraftBoy]

Most years, I agree, but 11 picks is a bunch. How many of those guys will be ready as depth next year? And, with 11, many will need to be.

Players like Leon Joe will always be signed in mid-season as injury replacements. With 12 players coming back from IR, there is depth on this team. The play of guys like George Wilson show that.

If there is a player the Bills are targeting in the late first or second, use the 3rds, 4ths and 5ths to move up.

The play of George Wilson has been suspect this year, he's made plays and been burned and I dont think anybody here feels comfortable saying he's a long term solution if Simpson does not pan out. Im not opposed to cutting players we have who can just do the job adequately to get players in here who we think can one day do the job well. Its a what have you done for me lately business and potential means everything.

[jamze132]

Your theory is still crap, you cant discount UDFA just because you dont like reality, they are as elgible as anybody to be a Day 2 pick. Your threw out the generalization not me, and I only included players that I knew were Day 2 pick (Im sure there are more) and only those that are 1st or 2nd stringers.
Noobdy is discounting UDFAs. Where are you getting that from? My entire point was about the draft and the players that we spend draft picks on. We can discuss UDFAs in another thread if you would like.

I am not discounting any UDFAs nor am I disputing reality. The entire point I was trying mkae was that we have way too many picks late in the 2nd day that won't probably amount to players making a difference on the field. Its more prudent to acrue more picks on Day 1 where historicaly speaking more stars are found.

[DraftBoy]

Noobdy is discounting UDFAs. Where are you getting that from? My entire point was about the draft and the players that we spend draft picks on. We can discuss UDFAs in another thread if you would like.

I am not discounting any UDFAs nor am I disputing reality. The entire point I was trying mkae was that we have way too many picks late in the 2nd day that won't probably amount to players making a difference on the field. Its more prudent to acrue more picks on Day 1 where historicaly speaking more stars are found.


Thats not what you said actually, what you said was that 90% of Day 2 picks dont do jack, which is just wrong. I already showed that, and the fact that you dont count UDFA's into your projections make no sense at all. You threw out a number and grossly miscalculated, especially given recent history and the depth of this draft. Scouting has gotten considerably better in the past decade alone and now more and more previously overlooked players are getting shots at the FCS, DII, and DIII levels. These players make impacts every Sunday.

[colin]

we have 49 guys and cap space going into next year.

we don't need more guys, we kneed quality guys.

i expect to make plenty of trades come draft day and land 4 or 5 guys in the top 120.

i also expect at least 1 top FA (maybe 2) and a couple from the next tier.

marv has no qualms at all about trading up or making big moves for big time players (c biscuit, mccargo and poz more recently).

i want to see us draft a CB, DT, G/C, WR/TE, and LB.

i want to see us land Lance briggs and chad johnson/clarke in FA.

[Devin]

i want to see us land Lance briggs and chad johnson/clarke in FA.

And id like a hummer from giselle, neither of those things is going to happen however.

[RockStar36]

I would definitely move up in the draft if they really have 10+ picks. They proven this year that they have plenty of depth. If they have a chance to move up into the first or second for an additional pick where the player would start and make some sort of impact I'd be all for the move.

[trapezeus]

with 10-11 picks, it won't be terrible if we draft 3 tight ends to replace our current crap unit.

[Ed]

Considering we've made trades to move up in both of Marvs drafts, and the fact that we have an abundance of picks this year, it wouldn't be surprising if we move up again. However, I have no problem holding onto all of our picks and creating some really good competition in camp.

Day 2 picks may have less of a chance of panning out, but the more picks you have the better chance you have of finding a gem. I've got no problem with filling our practice squad with draftees and creating some serious depth for the future.

Sign a couple top FA's, but build the core of your team through the draft. I think that's where the most success comes from.

[jamze132]

Thats not what you said actually, what you said was that 90% of Day 2 picks dont do jack, which is just wrong. I already showed that, and the fact that you dont count UDFA's into your projections make no sense at all. You threw out a number and grossly miscalculated, especially given recent history and the depth of this draft. Scouting has gotten considerably better in the past decade alone and now more and more previously overlooked players are getting shots at the FCS, DII, and DIII levels. These players make impacts every Sunday.
Yes I said 90% of Day 2 picks don't do **** and I will stick to that. If we are to build a winner in Buffalo, we need to aquire more Day 1 picks where the talent pool is deeper.

And don't give me **** fornot counting UDFAs into my projections. My previous posts have nothing to do with them at all so I don't know why you are trying to argue about them. There are gems found on Day 2 and there are gems found as UDFAs. There are MORE gems found on Day 1. Wanna dispute that draft guru?

[DraftBoy]

Yes I said 90% of Day 2 picks don't do **** and I will stick to that. If we are to build a winner in Buffalo, we need to aquire more Day 1 picks where the talent pool is deeper.

And don't give me **** fornot counting UDFAs into my projections. My previous posts have nothing to do with them at all so I don't know why you are trying to argue about them. There are gems found on Day 2 and there are gems found as UDFAs. There are MORE gems found on Day 1. Wanna dispute that draft guru?

Sure, you start and Ill follow

[jamze132]

Sure, you start and Ill follow
Your the one that seems to want to argue about UDFAs while my entire point had to do with the draft and the draft alone. If we have 10-11 picks and 3-4 are Day 1, that means 7-8 are Day 2 where the talent isn't as abundant. Dispute that statement... And adding an additional 5th and an additional 7th probably aren't going to net us much more than a career backup or special teamer. Dispute that statement... You should know as well as anyone that the draft is almost a complete crap shoot. Yuu could find a stud or dud in ANY round. Dispute that statement.

[DraftBoy]

Your the one that seems to want to argue about UDFAs while my entire point had to do with the draft and the draft alone. If we have 10-11 picks and 3-4 are Day 1, that means 7-8 are Day 2 where the talent isn't as abundant. Dispute that statement... And adding an additional 5th and an additional 7th probably aren't going to net us much more than a career backup or special teamer. Dispute that statement... You should know as well as anyone that the draft is almost a complete crap shoot. You could find a stud or dud in ANY round. Dispute that statement.

Ding ding ding, We have a winner!!

Yea I know thats my point, there is not set formula that says 90% of Day 2 Picks suck, what the hell are you arguing with me about if we agree?!

[jamze132]

Ding ding ding, We have a winner!!

Yea I know thats my point, there is not set formula that says 90% of Day 2 Picks suck, what the hell are you arguing with me about if we agree?!
Your right, there is no set formula that says that 90% of Day 2 picks suck, but history says otherwise.

Feel free to do the research... look at each and every teams Day 2 picks over the last 5 years and then let me know who is still starting and making a name for themselves. Exclude UDFAs because this has nothing to do with them, just people who teams actually spent a draft pick on. I bet that the number of players starting and making a name for themselves is around 10%. So you have approximately 640 players from Day 2 to go through. I will stand by...

[jamze132]

:popcorn:

[Ed]

jamze,

It's true that picking in the earlier rounds improves your chances of getting a quality player then in the later rounds, but I don't think the difference is as great as you think. The drop off in talent from round to round isn't as significant as people think, and with all the varying factors that go into evaluating players, there's plenty of room for mistakes. So it's not really fair to say day 2 picks never really amount to anything more then special teamers. Especially if we do have 7-8 day 2 picks. Are we going to hit on all of them? No, but the chances of us aquiring a couple good players is pretty high.

[DraftBoy]

Your right, there is no set formula that says that 90% of Day 2 picks suck, but history says otherwise.

Feel free to do the research... look at each and every teams Day 2 picks over the last 5 years and then let me know who is still starting and making a name for themselves. Exclude UDFAs because this has nothing to do with them, just people who teams actually spent a draft pick on. I bet that the number of players starting and making a name for themselves is around 10%. So you have approximately 640 players from Day 2 to go through. I will stand by...

Ill tell you what Ill do the research but its not just going to be starters, they have to be 1 or 2 on the depth chart and have played signifigantly, including ST. You cant change your parameters mid way through a challenge. Give me a day or two and Ill have the results.

[jamze132]

jamze,

It's true that picking in the earlier rounds improves your chances of getting a quality player then in the later rounds, but I don't think the difference is as great as you think. The drop off in talent from round to round isn't as significant as people think, and with all the varying factors that go into evaluating players, there's plenty of room for mistakes. So it's not really fair to say day 2 picks never really amount to anything more then special teamers. Especially if we do have 7-8 day 2 picks. Are we going to hit on all of them? No, but the chances of us aquiring a couple good players is pretty high.
I will agree with that statement but would like to see more Day 1 picks. Hell the Patriots only signed 2 of their Day 2 picks from last years draft if I am correct. Or they did sign but didn't make the team, I dunno. But my point is that we would be a much better team gathering Day 1 picks much like the Pats seem to do almost every year.

[jamze132]

Ill tell you what Ill do the research but its not just going to be starters, they have to be 1 or 2 on the depth chart and have played signifigantly, including ST. You cant change your parameters mid way through a challenge. Give me a day or two and Ill have the results.
I am talking about starters that have made a name for themselves only. Not people like John Wendling who were forced to start due to an injury. Find me 10% of the Day 2 draft picks from the last 5 years that are starting and making a difference in the NFL. No one changed any parameters at all. My arguement that 90% of Day 2 picks suck is on the table. Maybe we need to come to an understanding of what "sucks" mean and I don't say that sarcasticaly. I am very interested to do the research with you to see what the actual percentage is of Day 2 picks that are difference makers...

When I talk about Day 2 "sucks", I am referring to people who are not starting and not producing on offense or defense. Maybw that is a bit harsh, but its the NFL and its brutal. I am exlcuding ST since no one drafts for ST except for the Bills.

[Ed]

I will agree with that statement but would like to see more Day 1 picks. Hell the Patriots only signed 2 of their Day 2 picks from last years draft if I am correct. Or they did sign but didn't make the team, I dunno. But my point is that we would be a much better team gathering Day 1 picks much like the Pats seem to do almost every year.
Of course, every team would love to have more day 1 picks and be better off for it, but they're not that easy to come by, besides the one's you're given. At least we have an extra 3rd, that should be a high one. That's better then most teams.

[jamze132]

You can also exclude all kickers...

[jamze132]

Of course, every team would love to have more day 1 picks and be better off for it, but they're not that easy to come by, besides the one's you're given. At least we have an extra 3rd, that should be a high one. That's better then most teams.
Agreed. Having 4 Day 1 picks is very nice and is more attractive to other teams when wanting to trade up. having a trunk full of Day 2 picks isn't going to get us back into the 1st or 2nd roiund.

I hate to keep using the Patriots as an example but they do it right. They somehow keep aquiring extra Day 1 picks while using their Day 2 picks as trade bate to net players that make a difference just about every game. We need to mimick them...

[DraftBoy]

I am talking about starters that have made a name for themselves only. Not people like John Wendling who were forced to start due to an injury. Find me 10% of the Day 2 draft picks from the last 5 years that are starting and making a difference in the NFL. No one changed any parameters at all. My arguement that 90% of Day 2 picks suck is on the table. Maybe we need to come to an understanding of what "sucks" mean and I don't say that sarcasticaly. I am very interested to do the research with you to see what the actual percentage is of Day 2 picks that are difference makers...

When I talk about Day 2 "sucks", I am referring to people who are not starting and not producing on offense or defense. Maybw that is a bit harsh, but its the NFL and its brutal. I am exlcuding ST since no one drafts for ST except for the Bills.
Im doing the research Ill tell you what I dont and do include, there wont be any Wendling's only those guys who have shown over the course of their careers that they are vital to their teams in whatever roles they play. You can disagree however you like after I post the list.

[jamze132]

On another note, didn't the NFL modify the draft by shortening the times for picks as well as moving the 3rd round to the 2nd day?

[jamze132]

Im doing the research Ill tell you what I dont and do include, there wont be any Wendling's only those guys who have shown over the course of their careers that they are vital to their teams in whatever roles they play. You can disagree however you like after I post the list.
Well dude, I have to admit, I think this is getting out of hand and you are about to spend a LOT of time trying to prove your point, but the thing is you want to research your parameters and not mine. But if you must...

Like I said, I think 90% of Day 2 picks don't amount to crap. Don't count career backups, Special Team studs, or kickers. Offense and Defense only. Those are my paramaters, and it should make your job easier.

[Ed]

Agreed. Having 4 Day 1 picks is very nice and is more attractive to other teams when wanting to trade up. having a trunk full of Day 2 picks isn't going to get us back into the 1st or 2nd roiund.

I hate to keep using the Patriots as an example but they do it right. They somehow keep aquiring extra Day 1 picks while using their Day 2 picks as trade bate to net players that make a difference just about every game. We need to mimick them...
Well how does not having a trunk load of 2nd day picks make it easier to get back into the first 2 rounds? I don't understand what point you're trying to make. How do you suggest we get back into the first two rounds if we dont' have more later round picks to trade with?

The Pats aquired an extra day 1 pick in 08, a first rounder, because they traded away an 07 first rounder. We could start doing the same thing to try and stock pile day 1 picks in later years, but then people would complain that we didn't pick up any first round players this year.

[Ed]

Well dude, I have to admit, I think this is getting out of hand and you are about to spend a LOT of time trying to prove your point, but the thing is you want to research your parameters and not mine. But if you must...

Like I said, I think 90% of Day 2 picks don't amount to crap. Don't count career backups, Special Team studs, or kickers. Offense and Defense only. Those are my paramaters, and it should make your job easier.
What percentage of Day 1 picks don't amount to crap?

[DraftBoy]

On another note, didn't the NFL modify the draft by shortening the times for picks as well as moving the 3rd round to the 2nd day?


Yes 1st Round is no 10 mins, 2nd Round 5

3rd Round moved to Day 2

[jamze132]

What percentage of Day 1 picks don't amount to crap?
We aren't talking about Day 1 picks, we are talking about Day 2 picks. Obviously there are plenty of Day 1 picks that suck ass. The entire point of this IMO is that in order for us to improve, we need more Day 1 picks because, statistically speaking, and again this is my opinion more stars in the NFL were drafted in the first 3 rounds.

[jamze132]

I want to thank you guys, I haven't ever had this many posts in one day in my entire 4 year career at the Billszone...

[jamze132]

Yes 1st Round is no 10 mins, 2nd Round 5

3rd Round moved to Day 2
So after the next draft, my theory of 90% of Day 2 picks sucking is about to change. But until then...

[DraftBoy]

Day 2 Picks Years 02-06:
791 Total Picks
111 Picks of Value

Ill post the names later, and I purposely excluded some names who I would have kept on

[DraftBoy]

Your right, there is no set formula that says that 90% of Day 2 picks suck, but history says otherwise.

Feel free to do the research... look at each and every teams Day 2 picks over the last 5 years and then let me know who is still starting and making a name for themselves. Exclude UDFAs because this has nothing to do with them, just people who teams actually spent a draft pick on. I bet that the number of players starting and making a name for themselves is around 10%. So you have approximately 640 players from Day 2 to go through. I will stand by...

Where did you get this number from?

[jamze132]

Day 2 Picks Years 02-06:
791 Total Picks
111 Picks of Value

Ill post the names later, and I purposely excluded some names who I would have kept on
So roughly 85% of those picks that aren't making the grade? That is pretty close to 90%.

[jamze132]

Where did you get this number from?
LOL, I took the number of teams (32), multiplied by the number of Day 2 picks they have each draft (4), multiplied by the number of years I meantioned earlier (5). Like I said, it was just an estimate and I excluded comp picks.

[Mr. Pink]

2002

Alex Brown, David Thornton, Randy McMichael, Jarvis Green, Kevin Curtis, Rocky Boiman, Justin Bannan, Andra Davis, Rocky Bernard, Aaron Kampman, Justin Hartwig, Jeb Putzier, Chester Taylor, Raheem Brock, Brad Keisel, Kevin Shaeffer, Rock Cartwright, David Givens, Robert Royal. All have started or start now and are major contributers on offense or defense. That's 20 out of approx 162 picks, higher than 10%

2003

Domanick Davis, George Wrightster, Onterrio Smith, Shaun McDonald, Terrence McGee, Ian Scott, Asante Samuel, Robert Mathis, Ryan Pontbriand, David Diehl, Dan Koppen, Arnaz Battle, Tully Banta-Cain, Ethan Kelly, Kevin Walter, Justin Griffith, Ovie Mughelli, Hunter Hillenmeyer, Cato June. 19 guys out of 162.

2004

Shaun Phillips, Demorrio Williams, Jerricho Cotchery, Will Allen, Nathan Vasher, Samie Parker, Robert Geathers, Mewelde Moore, Ernest Wilford, Jared Allen, Jason David, Brandon Chillar, Jake Scott, Chad Lavalais, Michael Turner, Mike Karney, DJ Hackett, Drew Carter, Shane Olivea, Derrick Ward, Colby Buckwoldt, Courtney Anderson. 22 out of 158.

2005

Sean Considine, Marion Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Duke Preston, Kerry Rhodes, Roydell Williams, Bo Scaife, Derek Anderson, Daven Holly, Kyle Orton, Chris Canty, Gerald Sensabaugh, Michael Boley, Anthony Bryant, Chris Kemoeatu. So that's 15 out of 153

2006

Owen Daniels, Brad Smith, Ko Simpson, Jason Avant, Gabe Watson, Barry Cofield, Leon Williams, Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumerville, Kyle Williams, Dawan Landry, Keith Ellison, Lawrence Vickers, Antoine Bethea, Marques Colston, Jonathan Scott, Wali Lundy, 16 out of 157.

The trend here is, players selected lower need time to develop. And even with using the 06 draft, every draft produces more than 10% of guys who start and contribute on offense and defense. This number goes higher but you've selected to kick out kickers, punters, returners so guys like Zastudil, Gostkowski and Jerome Mathis don't qualify.

[jamze132]

It's 11pm where I am, I'm going to bed. I want to thank you for arguing, I had a good time tonight. :peace:

[jamze132]

2002

Alex Brown, David Thornton, Randy McMichael, Jarvis Green, Kevin Curtis, Rocky Boiman, Justin Bannan, Andra Davis, Rocky Bernard, Aaron Kampman, Justin Hartwig, Jeb Putzier, Chester Taylor, Raheem Brock, Brad Keisel, Kevin Shaeffer, Rock Cartwright, David Givens, Robert Royal. All have started or start now and are major contributers on offense or defense. That's 20 out of approx 162 picks, higher than 10%

2003

Domanick Davis, George Wrightster, Onterrio Smith, Shaun McDonald, Terrence McGee, Ian Scott, Asante Samuel, Robert Mathis, Ryan Pontbriand, David Diehl, Dan Koppen, Arnaz Battle, Tully Banta-Cain, Ethan Kelly, Kevin Walter, Justin Griffith, Ovie Mughelli, Hunter Hillenmeyer, Cato June. 19 guys out of 162.

2004

Shaun Phillips, Demorrio Williams, Jerricho Cotchery, Will Allen, Nathan Vasher, Samie Parker, Robert Geathers, Mewelde Moore, Ernest Wilford, Jared Allen, Jason David, Brandon Chillar, Jake Scott, Chad Lavalais, Michael Turner, Mike Karney, DJ Hackett, Drew Carter, Shane Olivea, Derrick Ward, Colby Buckwoldt, Courtney Anderson. 22 out of 158.

2005

Sean Considine, Marion Barber, Brandon Jacobs, Duke Preston, Kerry Rhodes, Roydell Williams, Bo Scaife, Derek Anderson, Daven Holly, Kyle Orton, Chris Canty, Gerald Sensabaugh, Michael Boley, Anthony Bryant, Chris Kemoeatu. So that's 15 out of 153

2006

Owen Daniels, Brad Smith, Ko Simpson, Jason Avant, Gabe Watson, Barry Cofield, Leon Williams, Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumerville, Kyle Williams, Dawan Landry, Keith Ellison, Lawrence Vickers, Antoine Bethea, Marques Colston, Jonathan Scott, Wali Lundy, 16 out of 157.

The trend here is, players selected lower need time to develop. And even with using the 06 draft, every draft produces more than 10% of guys who start and contribute on offense and defense. This number goes higher but you've selected to kick out kickers, punters, returners so guys like Zastudil, Gostkowski and Jerome Mathis don't qualify.
Nice work but there are a lot players on your list who don't start AND make a difference. I wasn't just asking for starters, especially on scrub teams...

[Mr. Pink]

Nice work but there are a lot players on your list who don't start AND make a difference. I wasn't just asking for starters, especially on scrub teams...

You're also asking to leave out guys like Gostkowski, Zastudil, Mathis, Sproles, Leon Washington, etc...who make a difference. Albeit special teams, but still a difference.

[jamze132]

When you keep people such as Justin Bannan on your list, it loses credibility.

[Mr. Pink]

When you keep people such as Justin Bannan on your list, it loses credibility.

He contributes in Baltimore at DT, this year.

[jamze132]

He contributes in Baltimore at DT, this year.
Again, I am not talking about a "contributer". I am talking about players drafted on Day 2 who are starting and making a difference. You sure he is starting?

But I understand what you are saying.

[jamze132]

You're also asking to leave out guys like Gostkowski, Zastudil, Mathis, Sproles, Leon Washington, etc...who make a difference. Albeit special teams, but still a difference.
I know... Offense and Defense only.

If you need to, go to beginning of the thread and begin reading. You might get a headache though...

[jamze132]

I'm going to bed now... See ya guys...

[Mr. Pink]

Again, I am not talking about a "contributer". I am talking about players drafted on Day 2 who are starting and making a difference. You sure he is starting?

But I understand what you are saying.

When they play 3-4 no...but when they go into the 4-3 or 46 he does.

From the few games I've seen Baltimore this year...both cleveland games, the buffalo game and the pats game...he's actually looked like he belongs on the field.

I know how bad he was here, but like I said in an earlier post, most day 2 picks take time to develop. Especially when you get in the 5th to 7th round.

The Tom Brady's and Marques Colston's of the world are the exception, not the norm but there are quality players available on day 2.

[DraftBoy]

FTY is right, and Jamze my numbers had me near 15% which statistically speaking is a big difference, instead of a 1 in 10 shot at getting a player right, your looking at closer to a 1 in 6 shot. Its roughly about 40-50 more players than your 10% projects which is a ton. I also think you need to expand what your looking at beyond just starters on O and D. ST is vital and teams other than us do draft for them (Ex. Ravens spent a 3rd on WR/RS Yamon Figurs, he'll never be a good receiver for them) and 2nd stringers, esp on the lines are big time contributers with all the rotating that goes on. Im just saying that we shouldnt just see that we have 5 picks from Rounds 5-7 and assume they will likely be a waste, we could realistically get 2 solid-good players from that, which is something that can make NFL GM's careers.