The Bills 2008 Off-season

[Devin]

*No im not saying this season is over or that we wont make the playoffs, just simply some thoughts about the direction of the team.

I dont think anyone will argue the importance of this offseason. Going into year 3 this is easily our most crucial offseason and draft if we are to turn the corner. And I will say that generally apart from the 1st round I think Levy has done a great job putting young talent on this team. I liked the Dockery signing and while I am sure there are a bunch of "Well id have liked it better if we signed......." But the past is the past and im not gonna dwell on it.

This year id really like for us to sign really only 3-4 guys via FA. We dont need to go on a shopping spree, and a WR, maybe a DLman and a few depth guys id be happy with. To me signing a #2 WR via FA has to be a priority.

Id like Marv to focus more heavily on signing our guys to extensions. Evans, parrish, Hargrove, Jackson maybe Greer....etc. Keeping the team together and the core group of youngsters for the long term has got to be a primary focus.

Offensivley I feel like building a potent attack really isnt that far off. Yes yes I know we need this and that and everything in between to some people. What the Bills need depends almost solely on which fan you ask. Im actually in favor of keeping the line together with a small exception stolen from Draftboy. I think we are set in most place and feel we can upgrade TE in the draft. Part of our problem has always been size. Bryant johnson is 6-3 and Rucker is 6-7. We give TE two very big targets in the redzone with those two perhaps winning some of those jump balls teams always seem to catch on us. And apart maybe signing a depth player or two we havent gone overboard for anyone player. Most importantly we are young, most everyone is signed, and we have a shot at furthur developing team chemistry.

2008 Offense:

OT: Langston Walker
OG: Jordan Grimes *rookie 2nd
C: Melvin Fowler
OG: Derrick Dockery
OT: Jason Peters
TE: Martin Rucker *rookie 2nd/3rd
WR: Bryant Johnson *FA
WR: Lee Evans
WR: Reed/Parrish
QB: Trent Edwards
RB: Marshawn Lynch/Fred Jackson

The sad reality is I dont believe we will be signing a DE obviously with the contracts our DE's have. And if we draft a guy id say there is a better then average chance its round 3 or later unless someone fell. That said I dont think its unreasonable to think we could sign a 2nd tier DT who wont necessarily be a game changer but certainly an upgrade (and yes Op I know that isnt saying much). Again not a terrible amount of movement and we rely on some draft picks but again I think we improve on this side of the ball without breaking the bank this year or for the future. Drafting a guy like Connor not only gives us a pretty sick young LB corps but doesnt force us to break the bank on Briggs. Williams is a solid DT but his specialty is the pass rush, and assuming McCargo continues his progression it would be a solid compliment.

As far as Williams vs. Starks at DT
**My logic here is Williams is more of a pass rusher. Ten has more cap room then we do and im sure will try and keep the youngster Starks. Starks if im not mistaken plays the same spot as McCargo, and while similar in size Williams is more of a pass rusher. Greenbay seems to be happy with Harrell and Williams ive heard is likely to hit the open market.**

2008 Defense:

DE: Aaron Schobel
DT: John McCargo
DT: Corey Williams *FA
DE: Chris Kelsay
OLB: Angello Crowell
MLB: Paul Posluzny
OLB: Dan Connor *rookie 1st
CB: Terrence McGee
CB: Antoine Cason *rookie (trade up in the 1st or early 2nd) / Greer
SS: Donte Whitner
FS: Ko Simpson/George Wilson

To me the draft is something there is zero room for error. Its clear we have built this team through it the past few years and with the amount of picks we have we have to make them count. Unfortunatley this isnt a terribly deep year at DT and we simply arent in a position to get Ellis or Dorsey. And for where we would be drafting and/or trading up I feel like these are reachable targets. And in the event we gain as high as a 2nd or 3rd as Ingtar mentioned for Losman we obviously are sitting even better.

At the end of the day as I mentioned I dont envision us spending a ton of money, not because ralph is cheap. Because I dont think he is. But more so because I think we are drafting well for the most part and starting to keep a lot of our guys. And god willing Trent works out we all know what franchise QB's cost.

I went the FA route for positions I simply didnt wish to chance to a rookie. Lineman and WR. Grimes being the exception. You cant fix it all in one year but we are getting there in my opinion, and given how young this team is with a good draft this year and a couple signings in FA we are in good shape going forward.

As always thoughts welcome.

[The Answer]

*No im not saying this season is over or that we wont make the playoffs, just simply some thoughts about the direction of the team.

I dont think anyone will argue the importance of this offseason. Going into year 3 this is easily our most crucial offseason and draft if we are to turn the corner. And I will say that generally apart from the 1st round I think Levy has done a great job putting young talent on this team. I liked the Dockery signing and while I am sure there are a bunch of "Well id have liked it better if we signed......." But the past is the past and im not gonna dwell on it.

This year id really like for us to sign really only 3-4 guys via FA. We dont need to go on a shopping spree, and a WR, maybe a DLman and a few depth guys id be happy with. To me signing a #2 WR via FA has to be a priority.

Id like Marv to focus more heavily on signing our guys to extensions. Evans, parrish, Hargrove, Jackson maybe Greer....etc. Keeping the team together and the core group of youngsters for the long term has got to be a primary focus.

Offensivley I feel like building a potent attack really isnt that far off. Yes yes I know we need this and that and everything in between to some people. What the Bills need depends almost solely on which fan you ask. Im actually in favor of keeping the line together with a small exception stolen from Draftboy. I think we are set in most place and feel we can upgrade TE in the draft. Part of our problem has always been size. Bryant johnson is 6-3 and Rucker is 6-7. We give TE two very big targets in the redzone with those two perhaps winning some of those jump balls teams always seem to catch on us. And apart maybe signing a depth player or two we havent gone overboard for anyone player. Most importantly we are young, most everyone is signed, and we have a shot at furthur developing team chemistry.

2008 Offense:

OT: Langston Walker
OG: Jordan Grimes *rookie 2nd
C: Melvin Fowler
OG: Derrick Dockery
OT: Jason Peters
TE: Martin Rucker *rookie 2nd/3rd
WR: Bryant Johnson *FA
WR: Lee Evans
WR: Reed/Parrish
QB: Trent Edwards
RB: Marshawn Lynch/Fred Jackson

The sad reality is I dont believe we will be signing a DE obviously with the contracts our DE's have. And if we draft a guy id say there is a better then average chance its round 3 or later unless someone fell. That said I dont think its unreasonable to think we could sign a 2nd tier DT who wont necessarily be a game changer but certainly an upgrade (and yes Op I know that isnt saying much). Again not a terrible amount of movement and we rely on some draft picks but again I think we improve on this side of the ball without breaking the bank this year or for the future. Drafting a guy like Connor not only gives us a pretty sick young LB corps but doesnt force us to break the bank on Briggs. Williams is a solid DT but his specialty is the pass rush, and assuming McCargo continues his progression it would be a solid compliment.

2008 Defense:

DE: Aaron Schobel
DT: John McCargo
DT: Corey Williams *FA
DE: Chris Kelsay
OLB: Angello Crowell
MLB: Paul Posluzny
OLB: Dan Connor *rookie 1st
CB: Terrence McGee
CB: Antoine Cason *rookie (trade up in the 1st or early 2nd) / Greer
SS: Donte Whitner
FS: Ko Simpson/George Wilson

To me the draft is something there is zero room for error. Its clear we have built this team through it the past few years and with the amount of picks we have we have to make them count. Unfortunatley this isnt a terribly deep year at DT and we simply arent in a position to get Ellis or Dorsey. And for where we would be drafting and/or trading up I feel like these are reachable targets. And in the event we gain as high as a 2nd or 3rd as Ingtar mentioned for Losman we obviously are sitting even better.

At the end of the day as I mentioned I dont envision us spending a ton of money, not because ralph is cheap. Because I dont think he is. But more so because I think we are drafting well for the most part and starting to keep a lot of our guys. And god willing Trent works out we all know what franchise QB's cost.

I went the FA route for positions I simply didnt wish to chance to a rookie. Lineman and WR. Grimes being the exception. You cant fix it all in one year but we are getting there in my opinion, and given how young this team is with a good draft this year and a couple signings in FA we are in good shape going forward.

As always thoughts welcome.

That's a damn good offseason - but we are definitely going to have to address the pass rush and bring in a legit impact DE.

~The Answer

[DraftBoy]

Good plan, Id prefer Starks over Williams as the DT signing, and maybe LB Boss Bailey for a solid backup LB. Other than that Id be estatic with a Day 1 Draft like that coupled with those FA signings.

[Devin]

While I agree I just dont see it happening. Schobel is our franchise DE as evidenced by his contract which he will not be removed from anytime soon. And I cant see them sitting Kelsay.

I dont disagree with you I simply dont believe DE is something we are going to address above the top 2-3 rounds

[Dr. Lecter]

I am not sure RG is a need. Butler has been improving rapidly, imo.

[DraftBoy]

I am not sure RG is a need. Butler has been improving rapidly, imo.

improving is one thing he'll never be the road grader that we really need on the line. Grimes is a stud, Id like to see them move Butler to OC if possible.

[Dr. Lecter]

improving is one thing he'll never be the road grader that we really need on the line. Grimes is a stud, Id like to see them move Butler to OC if possible.

I don't think a road grader is a must. Look at Denver's line. All are under 300 lbs.


Guard is way down my list:

#2 WR
TE
CB
OLB
#2 QB
DT
DE
C
RG

[Devin]

Good plan, Id prefer Starks over Williams as the DT signing, and maybe LB Boss Bailey for a solid backup LB. Other than that Id be estatic with a Day 1 Draft like that coupled with those FA signings.

Well my logic there was Williams is more of a pass rusher. Ten has more cap room then we do and im sure will try and keep the youngster starks.

Starks if im not mistaken plays the same spot as McCargo, and while similar in size Williams is more of a pass rusher.

Greenbay seems to be happy with Harrell and Williams ive heard is likely to hit the open market.

[Mahdi]

Good plan, Id prefer Starks over Williams as the DT signing, and maybe LB Boss Bailey for a solid backup LB. Other than that Id be estatic with a Day 1 Draft like that coupled with those FA signings.
Corey Williams is a Warren Sapp type player that we need.... he gets to the QB and gets plenty of sacks... already has 8 or so this year.

[DraftBoy]

I don't think a road grader is a must. Look at Denver's line. All are under 300 lbs.


Guard is way down my list:

#2 WR
TE
CB
OLB
#2 QB
DT
DE
C
RG

They also employ a ZBS scheme which we dont, both Lynch and Jackson have to make too many moves and shake too many tackles to get more than 2 or 3 yards they are good but eventually that many hits will wear backs down. RG is a top 5 priority.

[DraftBoy]

Well my logic there was Williams is more of a pass rusher. Ten has more cap room then we do and im sure will try and keep the youngster starks.

Starks if im not mistaken plays the same spot as McCargo, and while similar in size Williams is more of a pass rusher.

Greenbay seems to be happy with Harrell and Williams ive heard is likely to hit the open market.


So I see now, Williams would be a great addition

[DraftBoy]

Corey Williams is a Warren Sapp type player that we need.... he gets to the QB and gets plenty of sacks... already has 8 or so this year.

I agree and after review Im more inclined to agree with the Williams signing over Starks

[Devin]

Corey Williams is a Warren Sapp type player that we need.... he gets to the QB and gets plenty of sacks... already has 8 or so this year.

he had a breakout year last year with 6 or 7 and this year he has 7 with 3 FF and an INT.

He is sort of the guy I pictured when typing this up wed go after and throw our money at.

[Dr. Lecter]

They also employ a ZBS scheme which we dont, both Lynch and Jackson have to make too many moves and shake too many tackles to get more than 2 or 3 yards they are good but eventually that many hits will wear backs down. RG is a top 5 priority.

Over which position though? Not #2 WR or TE. And a #2 QB is a must. So is CB (McGee and who else? Greer is a good back-up).

Maybe ahead of OLB if DiG moves outside.

[DraftBoy]

Over which position though? Not #2 WR or TE. And a #2 QB is a must. So is CB (McGee and who else? Greer is a good back-up).

Maybe ahead of OLB if DiG moves outside.

1. WR
2. TE
3. RG
4. CB
5. DT
6. OC
7. #3 QB

I think we'll handle DT and #2 QB via FA

Greer has outplayed McGee this year, how is he only a solid backup? Id switch the roles

[Dr. Lecter]

1. WR
2. TE
3. RG
4. CB
5. DT
6. OC
7. #3 QB

I think we'll handle DT and #2 QB via FA

I was including FA on my list. (i.e. general off-season moves).

The Bills should address WR as FA first, as they tend to take time to develop.

[Devin]

1. WR
2. TE
3. RG
4. CB
5. DT
6. OC
7. #3 QB

I think we'll handle DT and #2 QB via FA

Greer has outplayed McGee this year, how is he only a solid backup? Id switch the roles

Agreed although id probably mix in DE somewhere up there but yeah thats probably pretty close to how id see it. In fact you could probably argue OG/OC of equal importance.

[camelcowboy]

Isn't TJ Hackett available with the money they sank in Branch and Burleson what are the odds he shakes free?

[DraftBoy]

I was including FA on my list. (i.e. general off-season moves).

The Bills should address WR as FA first, as they tend to take time to develop.

I dont disagree but we need more than 1 WR imo

[DraftBoy]

Isn't TJ Hackett available with the money they sank in Branch and Burleson what are the odds he shakes free?

Depends I dont know Seattle's situation. You'd imagine he could unless one of the top 2 get hurt.

[DraftBoy]

Agreed although id probably mix in DE somewhere up there but yeah thats probably pretty close to how id see it. In fact you could probably argue OG/OC of equal importance.

Well I think DE should be priority #1 but thats not going to happen (my one big complaint about Marv) but yea I still think Butler can slide over one more spot and be a hell of a center, he's a little tall at 6'7 but he could do it, I think.

[camelcowboy]

Depends I dont know Seattle's situation. You'd imagine he could unless one of the top 2 get hurt. Hackett > B.Johnson imo, even though both would compliment evans very nicely.

[DraftBoy]

Hackett > B.Johnson imo, even though both would compliment evans very nicely.
Based on what?

[Dr. Lecter]

I dont disagree but we need more than 1 WR imo

Evans, Johnson, Reed and Parrish is a solid group.

[camelcowboy]

Based on what? Both are tall solid possesion receivers we have enought speed guys. Johnson is probally a bit faster, but I have seen Hackett play more and think he would be great as a bill. Good hands, nice height ok speed. I'll admit besides the fact that Johnson was a first round pick from Penn state he's been burried as a number three for the cardinals. Imo hackett seems to be a more proven commodity.

[DraftBoy]

Evans, Johnson, Reed and Parrish is a solid group.

Solid is nice, but I want ***** amazing what is it with Bills fan settling, can we for once strive for the best?

[camelcowboy]

Solid is nice, but I want ***** amazing what is it with Bills fan settling, can we for once strive for the best? Solid play at the qb position is going to make the wr core better.

[DraftBoy]

Both are tall solid possesion receivers we have enought speed guys. Johnson is probally a bit faster, but I have seen Hackett play more and think he would be great as a bill. Good hands, nice height ok speed. I'll admit besides the fact that Johnson was a first round pick from Penn state he's been burried as a number three for the cardinals. Imo hackett seems to be a more proven commodity.

Hackett has a laundry list of injuries too and never played a full season I dont think, I dont want that kind of a risk.

[DraftBoy]

Solid play at the qb position is going to make the wr core better.

Wr's can bail out QB's just as QB's can make WR's look better its a two way street. You telling me the Patriots are undefeated without one of Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney, or Moss? I dont think they are.

[Dr. Lecter]

Solid is nice, but I want ***** amazing what is it with Bills fan settling, can we for once strive for the best?

Sure, but only if other places are upgraded before Reed/Parrish.

(i.e. back-up RB, #2 TE, O-Line depth, MLB depth, etc.)

[Mr. Pink]

I see this gets more talk in this forum than the scouting zone. lol

I like the list Devin and see you incorporated Jordan Grimes in this time around :up:

I like Justin Gage for the number 2 WR over Johnson and Hackett.

As much as we could use a better impact end, we just can't afford it cap sense wise. DE is a huge need IMO but unfortunately I don't see us being able to address it unless we cut Kelsay or Schoebel. Which I'm not sure what the cap hit is if we do it or if that's fiscally responsible either.

I'm with DB on signing Boss Bailey, his coverage skills and speed would certainly be an asset to our Cover 2 scheme.

The TE that excites me most in the draft is John Carlson out of ND but I've seen him listed anywhere from a Rd1 to Rd3 prospect not sure when the proper time is to draft him. I'm averaging it out to being a round 2 prospect and Grimes would be more helpful to us than Carlson right now IMO.

Also, I'd like us to move back into Round 2 using our two 3s for DeMario Pressley.

And I'm still all for drafting Malcolm Jenkins in Rd1.

Needs

CB
WR
DT
C
TE
LB

just my two cents

[camelcowboy]

Wr's can bail out QB's just as QB's can make WR's look better its a two way street. You telling me the Patriots are undefeated without one of Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney, or Moss? I dont think they are. Besides moss the receivers you have listed have played better because of play at qb. Even moss has shown that if he doesn't have a good qb then he's average receiver. I know it works both ways but qb is a bigger part of the equation. Do you think Gonzales has a great rookie year without manning?

[DraftBoy]

Sure, but only if other places are upgraded before Reed/Parrish.

(i.e. back-up RB, #2 TE, O-Line depth, MLB depth, etc.)

Back-Up Rb?! Are you serious? What the hell is Jackson?

#1 TE is what we need Gaines is a good #2 TE

Yea I agree but we can get that any time, and Im not advocating a Day 1 pick be spent on a WR, more like a later pick on a number of WR's Ive previously mentioned in the Scouting Zone

LB depth comes with picking up Connor allowing Poz and Digi to stay inside.

[Devin]

Sure, but only if other places are upgraded before Reed/Parrish.

(i.e. back-up RB, #2 TE, O-Line depth, MLB depth, etc.)

Backup RB? Like Jackson?

We need a #1 TE first.

MLBdepth? No prob we have Digi behind poz were he rightfully belongs, by drafting Connor or maybe RIvers we solve that little issue.

[DraftBoy]

Backup RB? Like Jackson?

We need a #1 TE first.

MLBdepth? No prob we have Digi behind poz were he rightfully belongs, by drafting Connor or maybe RIvers we solve that little issue.

You scare me sometimes with how similar we think, you know that right?

[Devin]

Whoa lol.

[DraftBoy]

I see this gets more talk in this forum than the scouting zone. lol

I like the list Devin and see you incorporated Jordan Grimes in this time around :up:

I like Justin Gage for the number 2 WR over Johnson and Hackett.

As much as we could use a better impact end, we just can't afford it cap sense wise. DE is a huge need IMO but unfortunately I don't see us being able to address it unless we cut Kelsay or Schoebel. Which I'm not sure what the cap hit is if we do it or if that's fiscally responsible either.

I'm with DB on signing Boss Bailey, his coverage skills and speed would certainly be an asset to our Cover 2 scheme.

The TE that excites me most in the draft is John Carlson out of ND but I've seen him listed anywhere from a Rd1 to Rd3 prospect not sure when the proper time is to draft him. I'm averaging it out to being a round 2 prospect and Grimes would be more helpful to us than Carlson right now IMO.

Also, I'd like us to move back into Round 2 using our two 3s for DeMario Pressley.

And I'm still all for drafting Malcolm Jenkins in Rd1.

Needs

CB
WR
DT
C
TE
LB

just my two cents

Im working on trying to get more people to the Scouting Zone, Devin is just a rebel.

Yea he included Grimes after Ive spent weeks talking to him about the need to have a true road grader.

Dude, Gage? What has he done to deserve a job, let alone a #2 spot? The Ricky Williams clone in Roydell Williams beat him out.

Agree on DE, and your completely right about Boss.

Being a ND homer, Carlson is good but he is a 3rd-4th Round pick, he's not in that new breed mold of uber athletes but he is a more athletic Jay Rimersma type.

I still dont see the fascination with Pressley, he's an overacheiver imo.

[DraftBoy]

Besides moss the receivers you have listed have played better because of play at qb. Even moss has shown that if he doesn't have a good qb then he's average receiver. I know it works both ways but qb is a bigger part of the equation. Do you think Gonzales has a great rookie year without manning?

100% disagree, Welker and Gaffney have bailed out Brady's ass this year and he'll happily admit that.

[Dr. Lecter]

Back-Up Rb?! Are you serious? What the hell is Jackson?



So Jackson is an adequate #2 RB, but Reed is not OK as a #3 WR?

[Devin]

I see this gets more talk in this forum than the scouting zone. lol

I like the list Devin and see you incorporated Jordan Grimes in this time around :up:

I like Justin Gage for the number 2 WR over Johnson and Hackett.

As much as we could use a better impact end, we just can't afford it cap sense wise. DE is a huge need IMO but unfortunately I don't see us being able to address it unless we cut Kelsay or Schoebel. Which I'm not sure what the cap hit is if we do it or if that's fiscally responsible either.

I'm with DB on signing Boss Bailey, his coverage skills and speed would certainly be an asset to our Cover 2 scheme.

The TE that excites me most in the draft is John Carlson out of ND but I've seen him listed anywhere from a Rd1 to Rd3 prospect not sure when the proper time is to draft him. I'm averaging it out to being a round 2 prospect and Grimes would be more helpful to us than Carlson right now IMO.

Also, I'd like us to move back into Round 2 using our two 3s for DeMario Pressley.

And I'm still all for drafting Malcolm Jenkins in Rd1.

Needs

CB
WR
DT
C
TE
LB

just my two cents

Well this wasnt meant to be just draft talk so much as a general overview.

Gage has never done anything of note, and while he has great size he simply isnt good enough for me to consider him over BJ. On top of that with like 35 mil in cap space in the off chance he is worth having Ten will likely keep him. As thin as they are at WR if they didnt it would tell you something.

Agreed about DE.

Agreed about Bailey.

While I like Rucker better I wouldnt be dissapointed with Carlson.

Agree with the needs although id add OG. I dont have a problem with drafting a CB I do have one with drafting a CB 1st overall. Trading back up or taking one with our 2nd id be fine with.

[DraftBoy]

So Jackson is an adequate #2 RB, but Reed is not OK as a #3 WR?

Your adjective use kills me, Reed has stepped up big time this year and Im not discounting that and for some reason I get the opinion that you think Im calling for a Rd 1-4 WR pick if we sign Johnson which Im not. However I dont have any faith to throw to Reed or Parrish in crunch time if Evans and Johnson are blanketed, he's made some plays yes, but he is no Welker/Gaffney type. Does that explain it a bit better?

[HHURRICANE]

That's a damn good offseason - but we are definitely going to have to address the pass rush and bring in a legit impact DE.

~The Answer

I completely agree that DE is major issue on this team!!

[DraftBoy]

Well this wasnt meant to be just draft talk so much as a general overview.

Gage has never done anything of note, and while he has great size he simply isnt good enough for me to consider him over BJ. On top of that with like 35 mil in cap space in the off chance he is worth having Ten will likely keep him. As thin as they are at WR if they didnt it would tell you something.

Agreed about DE.

Agreed about Bailey.

While I like Rucker better I wouldnt be dissapointed with Carlson.

Agree with the needs although id add OG. I dont have a problem with drafting a CB I do have one with drafting a CB 1st overall. Trading back up or taking one with our 2nd id be fine with.

Seriously stop it now, Im getting ready to shut my cpu off this is getting so weird

[Devin]

:rofl:

[camelcowboy]

100% disagree, Welker and Gaffney have bailed out Brady's ass this year and he'll happily admit that. Yeah i forgot brady hasn't won any superbowls with out moss, welker, and Stallworth. Take brady off that team their no better then the jets. Offense evolves around the qb. Ask cleveland, Does DA make that receiving core look alot better then Charlie Frey?

[Devin]

Hey I like parrish and reed a lot. Reed has stepped it up this year. Be we absolutley need more then 1 WR.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah i forgot brady hasn't won any superbowls with out moss, welker, and Stallworth. Take brady off that team their no better then the jets. Offense evolves around the qb. Ask cleveland, Does DA make that receiving core look alot better then Charlie Frey?


Oh Jesus Christ how about we twist my words more to fit your point of view. Does DA? Not necessarily having a competent QB does help though.

[camelcowboy]

Oh Jesus Christ how about we twist my words more to fit your point of view. Does DA? Not necessarily having a competent QB does help though. You really love asking me to clarify my position all the damn time i ask you to do you throw a fit.

[DraftBoy]

You really love asking me to clarify my position all the damn time i ask you to do you throw a fit.

What? Whose throwing a fit, your twisting my words to fit your argument. What do you need me to clarify? I already said that a QB can make WR's look better, but I contend that WR's can do the same for the QB. Im not saying Brady is only good bc of his WR corp, again thats something you tried to make it look like I said. Its a two way street is all Im saying.

[camelcowboy]

What? Whose throwing a fit, your twisting my words to fit your argument. What do you need me to clarify? I already said that a QB can make WR's look better, but I contend that WR's can do the same for the QB. Im not saying Brady is only good bc of his WR corp, again thats something you tried to make it look like I said. Its a two way street is all Im saying. I said the same thing why are we arguing?

[justasportsfan]

:movie:

[DraftBoy]

I said the same thing why are we arguing?


I dont know, friends again?

:cheers:

[camelcowboy]

I dont know, friends again?

:cheers::drunks:

[EDS]

Well my logic there was Williams is more of a pass rusher. Ten has more cap room then we do and im sure will try and keep the youngster starks.

Starks if im not mistaken plays the same spot as McCargo, and while similar in size Williams is more of a pass rusher.

Greenbay seems to be happy with Harrell and Williams ive heard is likely to hit the open market.

Wait, so Starks or Williams is the passrusher? The Bills need a run-stuffer.

[Devin]

Wait, so Starks or Williams is the passrusher? The Bills need a run-stuffer.

Starks basically plays the same position as McCargo currently does I believe.

Williams is most certainly more of a pass rusher and has played a lot at DE as well.

As far as needing a run stuffer........yes and no. Yes we are less then stellar against the run and certainly feel free to correct me but its my belief the Bills are looking towards mccargo in that role. Williams would be replacing Triplett.

[EDS]

Starks basically plays the same position as McCargo currently does I believe.

Williams is most certainly more of a pass rusher and has played a lot at DE as well.

As far as needing a run stuffer........yes and no. Yes we are less then stellar against the run and certainly feel free to correct me but its my belief the Bills are looking towards mccargo in that role. Williams would be replacing Triplett.

McCargo and Triplett play the same position. Williams and I guess Jefferson play the other DT position - ostensibly the run stuffing DT position. So the Bills need someont to rotate with Williams.

[Mr. Pink]

Im working on trying to get more people to the Scouting Zone, Devin is just a rebel.

Yea he included Grimes after Ive spent weeks talking to him about the need to have a true road grader.

Dude, Gage? What has he done to deserve a job, let alone a #2 spot? The Ricky Williams clone in Roydell Williams beat him out.

Agree on DE, and your completely right about Boss.

Being a ND homer, Carlson is good but he is a 3rd-4th Round pick, he's not in that new breed mold of uber athletes but he is a more athletic Jay Rimersma type.

I still dont see the fascination with Pressley, he's an overacheiver imo.

I included Grimes on my mock up of this in the scouting zone. Grimes is a mauler.

I dunno on Gage, I've seen him play and when he's on, he's scary good. He battles the dropsies and I believe injuries too.

Pressley is a DT who gets pressure, is always working, doesn't give up on plays. Overachieving isn't a bad thing. It shows to me a guy who does whatever it takes to get it done and goes that extra mile.

[The Jokeman]

Starks basically plays the same position as McCargo currently does I believe.

Williams is most certainly more of a pass rusher and has played a lot at DE as well.

As far as needing a run stuffer........yes and no. Yes we are less then stellar against the run and certainly feel free to correct me but its my belief the Bills are looking towards mccargo in that role. Williams would be replacing Triplett.
I think EDS is trying to say we need a NT type compared to a DT. I tend to agree. I can't see Marv looking to replace Tripplett with a free agent but could see us drafting a guy like Andre Fluellen with one of our 3rd Rounders to add to the rotation and perhaps replace Tripplett in two seasons. One guy that think could fill that role is Russell Davis, although he hasn't done much with the Giants this year. Yet unsure of his status as draftdaddy doesn't list him as an UFA but theredzone does. Though in looking at his nflpa.org site it appears he should be available. Yet he did play under Jauron as a rookie but was promptly cut the year after so not sure if a reunion be likely.

In terms of the WR position, Bryant Johnson is one of the best out there in terms of consistent year in year out production but feel Jerry Porter is a guy would go after. I've made mention of Ernest Wilford too only because at least I know he's started but seems best as a 3rd WR.

[justasportsfan]

With our DT's playing lights out the last 2 games (and hopefully the remaining games ) I hope our FO doesn't get comfortable with them and do nothing in the offseason. We need an upgrade expecially in Kyles position.