Can we be realistic....

[Mahdi]

Why is it everytime we lose a game everyone starts trashing our QB, HC and OC? It makes abosolutely no sense and just proves that all this criticism is just emotionally charged after losses and the same goes for all the Rah Rah stuff that happens after a win.

Let's just deal with the facts about the Bills....

This is a team that has major limitations that cant be overcome with great coaching and play calling.

Offensively we have 2 playmakers and thats it. Thats not enough in the NFL and everyone on this board knows that but we continue day after day to ask questions of our OC and play calling. Im sorry but Lee Evans, Parrish and Reed and Royal is not an adequate receiving corps. If you count, thats ONE receiving threat, ONE! What team in the NFL has ever been successful that way?? NONE!

Also we have a brand new OL that is starting to gel but is not there yet.

And although I really like what I see from Edwards he hasnt reached a level where he has become a play maker and he never will become that until he is surrounded with legitimate targets.

All in all I believe we have good systems in place on both sides of the ball and with one more off-season we can solve all of our problems but until then whats the point of playing the blame game when its clear where the problem lies.

BTW Cleveland was able to run the ball because they were able to get their other weapons involved in the game. Thats 2 extremely solid and BIG outside receivers and one of the best TEs in the game who is a match up nightmare for any defense yet we still held them to 2 FGs. In turn Cleveland was happy to put everyone in the box and dare us to throw to our undersized WRs and TEs who can hardly catch.

Can we please just be realistic about things and think like GMs and football ppl instead of emotional fans. The fact is we havent beaten any top tier teams yet and honestly until our team has the right personnel any win we do get is a real bonus and just shows that although we may not beat the good teams just yet were getting there and we will always compete even if its short-handed. Im just happy to see where this team is going, that theyre always prepared and that they compete hard....... For now.....

Go Bills!

[Billzz]

Sorry I only made it to deal with the facts and stopped reading.

Point is pretty much everyone else will also, just saying.

[SquishDaFish]

The playcalling sucked all year winning or losing

[OpIv37]

Our QB played poorly yesterday. He should be criticized for it. Calling for him to be benched/cut/replaced is a bit extreme, but there is reason for concern and a Plan B is a smart idea, not a bad one.

Fairchild has been gutless and predictable with his playcalling since he got here. Yeah, he may not have the talent to open up the O like the Colts or the Pats or previous incarnations of the Rams, but that's no excuse for running the same damn play 3 times in a row, that awful call on the reverse, not even TRYING to move the ball with three TO's left at the end of the first half, not trying to throw 8-11 yard passes like the Browns were doing to back the D off, etc. And how do you explain the failure to incorporate Lynch into the passing game?

And as far as always competing, we got blown out by Jacksonville, Pittsburgh and NE twice. We don't always compete.

Jauron was the wrong choice from the beginning. He had a horrific record in Chicago and has only been mediocre here. Every time this team has faced a real challenge- NE, Pittsburgh after the Everrett deal, Dallas on Monday Night, NE on Sunday Night, Jacksonville, Cleveland with the playoffs on the line- the team has buckled. We needed ONE play to beat Denver or beat Dallas or stay in the Cleveland game, and we couldn't get it. But Jauron's now some great coach? For getting us 16 losses in two seasons?

[njsue]

Our QB played poorly yesterday. He should be criticized for it. Calling for him to be benched/cut/replaced is a bit extreme, but there is reason for concern and a Plan B is a smart idea, not a bad one.

Fairchild has been gutless and predictable with his playcalling since he got here. Yeah, he may not have the talent to open up the O like the Colts or the Pats or previous incarnations of the Rams, but that's no excuse for running the same damn play 3 times in a row, that awful call on the reverse, not even TRYING to move the ball with three TO's left at the end of the first half, not trying to throw 8-11 yard passes like the Browns were doing to back the D off, etc. And how do you explain the failure to incorporate Lynch into the passing game?

And as far as always competing, we got blown out by Jacksonville, Pittsburgh and NE twice. We don't always compete.

Jauron was the wrong choice from the beginning. He had a horrific record in Chicago and has only been mediocre here. Every time this team has faced a real challenge- NE, Pittsburgh after the Everrett deal, Dallas on Monday Night, NE on Sunday Night, Jacksonville, Cleveland with the playoffs on the line- the team has buckled. We needed ONE play to beat Denver or beat Dallas or stay in the Cleveland game, and we couldn't get it. But Jauron's now some great coach? For getting us 16 losses in two seasons?

Trent Edwards did his job yesterday with some passes that should have been caught. Those passes were on the money.

The personel that should have caught the darn balls you all point the fingers too.

Plus Steve Fairchild game planned lousy once again.

[OpIv37]

Trent Edwards did his job yesterday with some passes that should have been caught. Those passes were on the money.

The personel that should have caught the darn balls you all point the fingers too.

Plus Steve Fairchild game planned lousy once again.

why is it that you mention the ones that could have been caught but forget about all the ones that were nowhere near on target? Edwards did NOT play well yesterday. I don't know why so many people are making excuses for the guy.

I've criticized Gaines and Evans for their drops in other threads, including my article on the main page.

And I agree on Fairchild- I can't wait til we get him out of town.

[shelby]

There are too many threads bashing a rookie QB.

People should consider letting the loss sink in for a day or two before they post their thoughts sometimes.

There's enough bickering going on in this forum that i'm ready to send some cranky children to their rooms for a much-needed nap.

[njsue]

why is it that you mention the ones that could have been caught but forget about all the ones that were nowhere near on target? Edwards did NOT play well yesterday. I don't know why so many people are making excuses for the guy.

I've criticized Gaines and Evans for their drops in other threads, including my article on the main page.

And I agree on Fairchild- I can't wait til we get him out of town.

Who can play perfectly in a blizzard with high winds and blowing snow?

Time to focus on the giants game. I am past this already.

GO BILLS CRUSH THE OVERRATED GIANTS.

[OpIv37]

There are too many threads bashing a rookie QB.

People should consider letting the loss sink in for a day or two before they post their thoughts sometimes.

There's enough bickering going on in this forum that i'm ready to send some cranky children to their rooms for a much-needed nap.

WHO CARES IF HE'S A ROOKIE!?!?!?!

His passes still need to be on target and a lot of them aren't.

There are too many people posting excuses for a bad performance- just admit he had a bad game and move on.

What is happening to Bills fans? We score ZERO points and everyone jumps up to defend the QB. It defies logic.

[OpIv37]

Who can play perfectly in a blizzard with high winds and blowing snow?

Time to focus on the giants game. I am past this already.

GO BILLS CRUSH THE OVERRATED GIANTS.

if you're over it why are you still making excuses for him?

[njsue]

if you're over it why are you still making excuses for him?

I know this :

1. Trent edwards is a rookie that needs to grow with more playing experience.

2. This bills team needs 2 more years to build up in free agency/draft picks to be a real deal playoff team.

3. The playcalling has been lousy all year.

4. They have a good chance to win sunday's game as the Giants are very much banged up and have once again have quit on their coach. Their secondary is the pitts.


:gobills:

[Owen DeBoard]

I know this :

1. Trent edwards is a rookie that needs to grow with more playing experience.

2. This bills team needs 2 more years to build up in free agency/draft picks to be a real deal playoff team.

3. The playcalling has been lousy all year.

4. They have a good chance to win sunday's game as the Giants are very much banged up and have once again have quit on their coach. Their secondary is the pitts.


:gobills:
Clevelands secondary isnt exactly good either but we made them look good yesterday. The Giants game is going to be tough because they got one of the best d-lines in the game. This is a good test for Trent. Lets see how prepared this team is after losing the most important game of the season.

[Mahdi]

I give up.... some ppl just dont understand the principle that your play calling will be ineffective if you dont have the personnel. Its like asking a mentally disabled person to score 1300 on a SAT test, it just wont happen. Theres simply too many things that our offense is incapable of executing. We see it every game week in and week out yet we keep blaming the play-calling which is senseless IMO.

[Owen DeBoard]

I give up.... some ppl just dont understand the principle that your play calling will be ineffective if you dont have the personnel. Its like asking a mentally disabled person to score 1300 on a SAT test, it just wont happen. Theres simply too many things that our offense is incapable of executing. We see it every game week in and week out yet we keep blaming the play-calling which is senseless IMO.
Then it is the OCs job to call plays that are strenghths to our personnel. For example running a reverse with Josh Reed instead of Roscoe Parrish. Does that make sense.

[Mahdi]

Then it is the OCs job to call plays that are strenghths to our personnel. For example running a reverse with Josh Reed instead of Roscoe Parrish. Does that make sense.
So you think one reverse is going to change everything for our offense,,, and actually i prefer Parrish on a reverse. And again the strengths of our personnel are irrelevant. Parrish and Reed are both underneath guys that dont command much attention, you cant just throw underneath all day to those guys. Evantually defenses will realize that defending us is easy. All you have to do really is condense the field on us and were finished. No one to stretch the field opposite Lee, no one to stretch the middle of the field like a TE for instance and while they shut down our short passing game which is our strength and play one safety high over Lee they shut down our run game at the same time. Its pretty simple for any DC to figure out.

[Mahdi]

I honestly cannot think of an offense in the NFL that has a magical OC that is just "getting it done" with a sub-par talent level. It just doesnt exist, why should it exist here?

[FatalShot]

I agree with most people. Trent Edwards played mediocre. He almost looked like the Losman that we decided to bench. In no way, am I saying that TE should be benched, he is a rookie, and will improve, but I was dissapointed with him.

Fairchild was horrible (as usual). We ran too much. And even when the run wasn't working we continued to run. Evans dropped way too many passes for a "star reciever". Our defense played pretty good. But we left Braylon open too much. We did shut them down to just 2 field goals which was good. But we didn't shut down the run very well. And allowed too many 3rd down conversions (as usual).

Despite losing our chance at the Playoffs. Let's move on, and BEAT the Giants!!

[justasportsfan]

I honestly cannot think of an offense in the NFL that has a magical OC that is just "getting it done" with a sub-par talent level. It just doesnt exist, why should it exist here?


when Drew went down to injury, the PAts changed the whole gameplan to fit Brady. They didn't force Brady to do what Drew did. They also had rookies starting in the payoffs all the way to winning a sb. A good coach will know how to put players in better situations to succeed.

Who would've thought of making Troy Brown a cb or Jr. Seau a fullback? How about Vrabel? Not having enough talent is an excuse. Fairchild could've gone out and asked for better players than what he had. Marv would've at least attempted to bring in more players.

Instead, Fairchild stuck with what he had last year. Thought he could build on JP's scuccess. When teams realized how to stop the deep ball, Fairchild had no answer.

Trent comes in, makes the O look better with short passes, JP was made into a scapegoat to hide Fairchilds stupidity.

Now teams figured out Trent and Fairchild is off to Colorado.

[Billzz]

when Drew went down to injury, the PAts changed the whole gameplan to fit Brady. They didn't force Brady to do what Drew did. They also had rookies starting in the payoffs all the way to winning a sb. A good coach will know how to put players in better situations to succeed.

Who would've thought of making Troy Brown a cb or Jr. Seau a fullback? How about Vrabel? Not having enough talent is an excuse. Fairchild could've gone out and asked for better players than what he had. Marv would've at least attempted to bring in more players.

Instead, Fairchild stuck with what he had last year. Thought he could build on JP's scuccess. When teams realized how to stop the deep ball, Fairchild had no answer.

Trent comes in, makes the O look better with short passes, JP was made into a scapegoat to hide Fairchilds stupidity.

Now teams figured out Trent and Fairchild is off to Colorado.

Not every team is the Patriots bro so you need to let that go. They are a Dynasty which alot of things combined to make it that way. They are without a doubt heads and tails above the rest of the league and have been for some time.

With Bledsoe at QB they where a sub-par team proven year after year no matter what OC was in there. Brady coming in was one of those "things" aligning to make them what they are today. They dinked and dunked their way to the first SB and really didn't start stretching the field alot more until the next year. Now they are a pass first run second team because of the QB.

[justasportsfan]

Not every team is the Patriots bro so you need to let that go. They are a Dynasty which alot of things combined to make it that way. They are without a doubt heads and tails above the rest of the league and have been for some time.

With Bledsoe at QB they where a sub-par team proven year after year no matter what OC was in there. Brady coming in was one of those "things" aligning to make them what they are today. They dinked and dunked their way to the first SB and really didn't start stretching the field alot more until the next year. Now they are a pass first run second team because of the QB.
I know we're not the patriots.No one is. Just pointing out that it's possible that an OC with a brain can do better than what Fairchild did with the talent he had. I just used the Pats as an example.

They didn't make excuses that Antoine Smith was their runningback.

[djjimkelly]

There are too many threads bashing a rookie QB.

People should consider letting the loss sink in for a day or two before they post their thoughts sometimes.

There's enough bickering going on in this forum that i'm ready to send some cranky children to their rooms for a much-needed nap.


sorry i had my thoughts on this guy when we drafted him ive been for most part right.

yes i still support JP and have a weird feeling both will be on roster next year to fight it out however if bills smart they should let JP leave.

we need a guy to be brought in "AS THE GUY" i know we tried that with bledsoe we just picked wrong guy to do that with.

[Billzz]

I know we're not the patriots.No one is. Just pointing out that it's possible that an OC with a brain can do better than what Fairchild did with the talent he had. I just used the Pats as an example.

They didn't make excuses that Antoine Smith was their runningback.

Haha yea I will give ya that one. They have a proven system that works and won a SB with a less then 1k season from a RB go figure. I am just saying Brady had alot to do with making them look good as the OC/system did.

They built a wall of a O-line around Brady and then commenced to create a outstanding D-line thru the draft. They got lucky not having to stab at a QB for a few years after Drew went down. Luck, fate whatever they have it working.

[Owen DeBoard]

I honestly cannot think of an offense in the NFL that has a magical OC that is just "getting it done" with a sub-par talent level. It just doesnt exist, why should it exist here?
There was one at one time. How about New England when Brady took over for Bledsoe? He came in to the system that was right for him. They didnt have great recievers but their OC "Charlie Weis" new Bradys strenghths.

[Owen DeBoard]

So you think one reverse is going to change everything for our offense,,, and actually i prefer Parrish on a reverse. And again the strengths of our personnel are irrelevant. Parrish and Reed are both underneath guys that dont command much attention, you cant just throw underneath all day to those guys. Evantually defenses will realize that defending us is easy. All you have to do really is condense the field on us and were finished. No one to stretch the field opposite Lee, no one to stretch the middle of the field like a TE for instance and while they shut down our short passing game which is our strength and play one safety high over Lee they shut down our run game at the same time. Its pretty simple for any DC to figure out.
Doesnt Parrish have speed? Why should he be underneath. I didnt say that a reverse is going to change everything for our offense but if your goin to run it then why would you run it with a guy that isnt known for speed. I just used that as an example that the OC doesnt use the right guys for the right playcalls. Throwing underneath will get the job done if the defense gives it to you.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

I know this :


1. Trent edwards is a rookie that needs to grow with more playing experience.

The fact that we are relying on a rookie is a problem. Especially from California.

Take a look at the last two successful QBs for the Bills: Flutie and Kelly. Flutie and Kelly. Kelly was from Pennsylvania; Flutie from Massachusetts.


2. This bills team needs 2 more years to build up in free agency/draft picks to be a real deal playoff team.

We've already given them 7. That's too long.


3. The playcalling has been lousy all year.

Brady and Manning call their own plays. Kelly called his own plays. Flutie could call his own plays. Edwards doesn't. That's his problem.


4. They have a good chance to win sunday's game as the Giants are very much banged up and have once again have quit on their coach. Their secondary is the pitts.

Too late now. They're going to be playing in a half-empty stadium on Christmas weekend with no playoffs. Again.

[justasportsfan]

The fact that we are relying on a rookie is a problem. Especially from California.

.
he's a rookie for crying outloud( oh wait, you said that) , he'll learn to deal with the elements. He doesn't surf like Robosack or wears a bandana. ;)

[Johnny Bugmenot]

One December game was all I needed to change my mind.

You can't fix suck that bad.

[Mahdi]

I know we're not the patriots.No one is. Just pointing out that it's possible that an OC with a brain can do better than what Fairchild did with the talent he had. I just used the Pats as an example.

They didn't make excuses that Antoine Smith was their runningback.
The Pats had the talent. They just werent brand names... but they were all talented players, they had good WRs, they had a good TE, they had a good OL and they had the QB to put everything together. Yer only proving my point. Vrabel was used as a TE because he is tall and has always had good hands, Seau was used only this year as a FB and they are just doing that for fun and to keep things interesting because it would be boring otherwise. Yer talking as if Seau has been playing like Lorenzo Neal. He has only had like 3 plays all year.

[Mahdi]

There was one at one time. How about New England when Brady took over for Bledsoe? He came in to the system that was right for him. They didnt have great recievers but their OC "Charlie Weis" new Bradys strenghths.
They did have talented WRs and they had WRs that had different strengths.

[Mahdi]

Doesnt Parrish have speed? Why should he be underneath. I didnt say that a reverse is going to change everything for our offense but if your goin to run it then why would you run it with a guy that isnt known for speed. I just used that as an example that the OC doesnt use the right guys for the right playcalls. Throwing underneath will get the job done if the defense gives it to you.
Parrish has been used on reverses so im not sure what point yer trying to make. And although Parrish has speed he just doesnt make too many plays downfield. And unless the ball is pin-point placed then it will be very difficult for him to beat anyone out for it. Teams are not giving us the short stuff because they know its all we have and thats why our offense is suffering, no #2 WR to open up the other side and no TE to challenge the safeties.

[Owen DeBoard]

Parrish has been used on reverses so im not sure what point yer trying to make. And although Parrish has speed he just doesnt make too many plays downfield. And unless the ball is pin-point placed then it will be very difficult for him to beat anyone out for it. Teams are not giving us the short stuff because they know its all we have and thats why our offense is suffering, no #2 WR to open up the other side and no TE to challenge the safeties.
My point with the reverse is the OC ran it with the wrong guy. You said this game cant be blamed on the OC because he dont have very good personell. Im pointing out that he doesnt use the right guys for the plays he calls. Parrish also made the only play downfield in the Patriots game with the long touchdown catch.

[MikeInRoch]

We've already given them 7. That's too long.


Here's where logical falls short. Just because they screwed up the past does NOT mean that it can be turned around in a year. Does it justify your frustration? Sure. But having seven bad seasons does not mean that you can automatically turn it around in one year.

[justasportsfan]

The Pats had the talent. They just werent brand names... but they were all talented players, they had good WRs, they had a good TE, they had a good OL and they had the QB to put everything together. Yer only proving my point. Vrabel was used as a TE because he is tall and has always had good hands, Seau was used only this year as a FB and they are just doing that for fun and to keep things interesting because it would be boring otherwise. Yer talking as if Seau has been playing like Lorenzo Neal. He has only had like 3 plays all year.
they weren't all that in the first year they won the sb. Any other coach wouldn't have won them the SB.

As for Vrabel, whether he has good hands or not is the question. It's whether the coaches know how to use those qualities and put those qualities in a situation to succeed. Evans has good hands. So does, parrish and Reed and yet, they aren't making full use of their potential.

Bobby April is able to make use of whoever is in there because he knows how to put whatever player in a position to succeed. Same goes with Fewell.

[Philagape]

We've already given them 7. That's too long.


We've given who seven? The only constant is Ralph, and it's not like he can be fired