Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

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  • patmoran2006
    Ole' Ralphie SCROOGE
    • Dec 2005
    • 19840

    Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

    I had plenty of comments following yesterday's Bills game, in particular on Donte Whitner, and I got a lot of feedback that I was overreacting.

    While I'll be the first to admit I have a tendancy to overreact, I don't think I have with Whitner at all.

    The reality is he's played 31 games now, and he's been no more important to this secondary than McGee, Greer or even George Wilson. How many games have you seen Whitner and said to yourself "wow, this guy is a great football player?"

    If had been a third, second or maybe even late round first pick it would be one thing. But the bottom line is he was the 8th overall pick in the draft, and I've seen absolutely NOTHING from him that shows me he even remotely deserves it. And don't tell me draft position doesn't matter because it does. Whitner is being paid like a franchise safety, and he's played like pretty much any other safety on any other team in the NFL. That's not good enough.

    Sure, he has a lot of tackles. But how many big interceptions has he had? How many big sacks? How many big tackles for losses at critical parts of the game? How many big pass breakups? Say what you want. I say he's been extrordinarily average.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm also baffled and frankly, disgusted at the amount of negativity towards Trent Edwards. I've even heard a few people say that we need to find a quarterback like Donavan McNab this offseason.

    I say that talk is crazy. Firstly, does anyone have any idea financially what that price tag would do to this franchise? Secondly, Edwards has played for the most part, fine; especially for a rookie.

    Look, Jerry Sullivan in his column said it best. It doesn't matter if its Jim Kelly, Dan Marino or Alex Van Pelt behind center. December football in Buffalo is about the trenches. That's where we are woefully weak. Top that off with this fact: I don't think even if Brady or Manning were here; this offense would be that good with our collection of WR's and a chicken-**** offensive coordinator in Fairchild.

    Does Edwards need to improve? Absolutely he does. He's struggled heavily at times over the past two weeks. But the first quarter yesterday was evidence of what Edwards can do when the offense is opened up and unpredictable, and guys actually make the catches. When you look at the overall team needs this offseason, I think Edwards is the least of their problems.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If anyone doubts what kind of worth Jason Peters is to this team, remember what happened to the offense once he went down. I said it earlier this week and I'll say it again now; before the Bills sign a player this offseason, Peters should be locked up for the money he deserves, for a very long time. I think along with Chris Samuels (Washington) he's become as good as it gets at the position in this league.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lost in the shuffle of so many bad things yesterday was the play of Langston Walker. He absolutely manhandled Michael Strahan. At the time I thought it was ridiculous to give someone of his track record $5 million per year. Now I'm thinking that's a bargain. When Walker plays like this, they're are few if any better tackle tandems in the NFL than Buffalo's.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    What will it take for John McCargo to start getting more playing time. He's being used as a shortyardage/goal line DT and that's it. Absurd. He makes two huge goal-line stops and on the next drive I don't see him again until it's 3rd and 1 inside our 25-yard line. I don't see anyway he shouldn't be starting full-time next year. It's hard to evaluate a guy when he doesn't play enough, but it seems to me he's made plenty of big plays this year in limited playing time.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------Kyle Williams and Keith Ellison are nice depth players, but I don't think either should be starting next season if this defense is to take the next step. As a matter of fact, I think these two positions should be the top priority defensively this offseason.

    The Bills need a DT who can play alongside McCargo, who if he does nothing else clogs up the lanes in the middle and helps a putrid run defense. At Ellison's spot, the team needs someone badly who can actually make plays. Ellison is terrible at tackling; being run over by Vince Young in the preseason was a sign of things to come.

    Lance Briggs would be the obvious answer; though I doubt highly Wilson will pour that kind of money into a player outside the organization. However, It would be a signing that could put the defense over the top on its way to respectability. A linebacking tandem of Briggs, Crowell and a healthy Poz would signify one of the stronger front sevens in the league, and if nothing else this year we're learning the importance of being able to contain running backs in December.

    There are no marqee wide receivers in this year's free agent market, and outside of Albert Haynesworth (who Tennessee will surely not let go) nobody on the market could help this defense more than Briggs.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I've talked about Briggs. Now I want to talk about the guy who would help the offense more than any player on the market. Dallas Clark.

    It's easy to see when watching Trent Edwards play how much this offense would improve with a play-making tight end. He would open the offense up and be a reliable target for Trent, who loves to go to his tight end. As much as I want to see an improvement at wide receiver over Reed (as a starter), I think that talent could be found early in the draft. Clark is a guy that would help immensely from day one, and with Indy surely being focused on resigning Bob Sanders it's near certain he's going to be on the market shortly. The feeling here is Clark would be more valuable than any wide receiver we're capable of landing.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Cap-room wise, Buffalo could land both these prizes. It's up to Wilson and how committed he really is to having a championship contender type of team in Buffalo. Rather than signing a bunch of free agents, concentrate on just the two of them.

    The advantage Buffalo has this year it hasn't in other years is they don't have crucial free agents of their own to resign. In fact, led by Anthony Hargrove (who I'd like to resigned) this the weakest overall crop of our own free agents we've had in years. There's no free agent we have hitting the market that's crucial to resign.

    Couple that with the 3rd most cap-room in the league puts them in a position to go after these guys. I think this offseason should be about quality over quantity. Again, that falls on Wilson and his committment to getting two more impact guys in town.

    If we could sign Briggs and Clark, again EXTREMELY reasonable given the cap situation, and find a mid-level defensive tackle who's strength is against the run, combine that with another solid draft and this is a legitimate playoff contender.


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  • #2
    Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

    McCargo made two plays yesterday Pat, two. Not a play more.

    He didn't just come in for those two plays either. McCargo has proven time and time again that he cannot play a full game solidly.

    So many put so much emphasis on a play or two every game. Impact players, Pro Bowl caliber players, show up for 80+% of a game and typically dominate and make many solid plays in a game. McCargo is clearly not in that category or even close.

    It's much easier to come in for spot duty or as part of a four or five-man rotation for two positions and put up a big play in front of a home crowd with high energy. It's entirely another to outperform you peers lining up across from you on a regular basis making yourself one of the better players in the league.

    The Bills rely, and heavily, on their dumbassed rotation of highly paid players and high draftees, and that should be reaping tremendous benefits if the players were actually a fraction of what the dunderheaded brain trust said they'd be given the freshness that each of them is allowed to maintain due to this idiotic rotational system that we use.

    IMO the verdict is that it is woefully lacking in both design as well as performance and that we'd be much better suited going back to a system that essentially uses two F/T starters at both the DTs and DEs with only players replacing them on occasion for a rest.

    Frankly, while everyone has decreed a new defense, none, not one of the starters on our F4 was new this season nor even more than a backup rotational type or so. Even our LBs, we started with Crowell and Ellison who did start some of last season, with only our MLB spot new. Yet, we are far worse as a D. How come? It isn't all DiGiorgio sorry to report.

    In terms of impact players on our team, being defined as types that show up for virtually every game and make many plays in each game, we have few if any on O or D.

    On D I'd say that the closest we have is probably Whitner with Schobel's having fallen off the map proving the predictable notion that you can't be a grat DE in the NFL at 240 lbs, a big shocker for some I realize.

    Not one LB we have, not one DT, and no other DE is even close. There isn't anyone in the secondary either and frankly, Whitner isn't either and you've done a great job of stating that.

    Offensively, the Peters/Dockery tandem has been disappointing to say the least. Ditto there for impact players. I, many, thought that Evans was, and he may be. But if he is, then what does that say for the coaching staff from the top down. Not much.

    Moorman is our big impact player. How nice, the punter.

    Comment

    • Kerr
      Hall of Fame Zoner
      • Feb 2005
      • 6656

      #3
      Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

      McCargo is good. Tripps and Williams are backup material. Corey Williams would be an upgrade.

      Comment

      • venis2k1
        Youboty can hope
        • Jul 2002
        • 4621

        #4
        Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

        signing a 25 year old pro bowl left tackle isnt gonna come cheap...but peters deserves ever penny. after paying dockery $49M this offseason, thats gonna be alot of scratch tied up on the left side of that line(not a bad thing though)

        Comment

        • Dr. Lecter
          Zero for Zero!
          • Mar 2003
          • 67938

          #5
          Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

          Originally posted by Wys Guy
          Offensively, the Peters/Dockery tandem has been disappointing to say the least. Ditto there for impact players. I, many, thought that Evans was, and he may be. But if he is, then what does that say for the coaching staff from the top down. Not much.

          Moorman is our big impact player. How nice, the punter.
          Calling Peters "Dissappointing" is a clear indiciation that you are not kidding when you say you don't watch the games.

          How can you evaluate his play when you admitelly don't watch the team?
          Originally posted by mysticsoto
          Lecter is right in everything he said.

          Comment

          • Dr. Lecter
            Zero for Zero!
            • Mar 2003
            • 67938

            #6
            Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

            The reality is he's played 31 games now, and he's been no more important to this secondary than McGee, Greer or even George Wilson. How many games have you seen Whitner and said to yourself "wow, this guy is a great football player?"

            He has been world's better than those three players. Clearly. Far and away.
            Originally posted by mysticsoto
            Lecter is right in everything he said.

            Comment

            • djjimkelly
              Registered User
              • Apr 2003
              • 7045

              #7
              Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

              Originally posted by patmoran2006

              Look, Jerry Sullivan in his column said it best. It doesn't matter if its Jim Kelly, Dan Marino or Alex Van Pelt behind center. December football in Buffalo is about the trenches. That's where we are woefully weak. Top that off with this fact: I don't think even if Brady or Manning were here; this offense would be that good with our collection of WR's and a chicken-**** offensive coordinator in Fairchild.

              .

              i just love how edwards gets a pass about the wrs and offensive coordinator but somehow JP was supposed to rise above it all

              Comment

              • YardRat
                Well, lookie here...
                • Dec 2004
                • 86167

                #8
                Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

                It's been unfortunate for Donte personally that he's been thrust into a situation where he's playing along with an under-athletic MLB and a revolving door at the other safety position. Last year he was a rookie. I'm looking forward to how he performs next year with (hopefully) Poz and Simpson in the line-up again.

                Trent will be fine, and he's shown more than enough this year to give the team hope that he will eventually become at the very least a solid starter.

                Peters should be re-signed to Dockery money, at least.

                Walker has been solid against the pass and RT should no longer be an area of concern, but I'd still like to see the entire unit develop into a more dominate squad when running the ball.

                We need another DT, but not just another fat-ass. Someone with size and quickness is necessary.

                DiG may still be a starter next year, depending on Poz's development, and Ellison should be a back-up. Briggs would be nice, but if he isn't signed at the stroke of midnight forget about him.

                Clark would be nice also, but if we have to throw the bank at him and Briggs and call it a day I don't know if I'd go for that. Still like to see a #2 WR and DT brought in via FA also.
                YardRat Wall of Fame
                #56 DARRYL TALLEY
                #29 DERRICK BURROUGHS#22 FRED JACKSON #95 KYLE WILLIAMS

                Comment

                • shelby
                  The Vanilla *****
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 48489

                  #9
                  Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

                  Originally posted by djjimkelly
                  i just love how edwards gets a pass about the wrs and offensive coordinator but somehow JP was supposed to rise above it all
                  In fairness, this is Trent's rookie season. JP had four seasons to get it together and showed that he could not.

                  Comment

                  • YardRat
                    Well, lookie here...
                    • Dec 2004
                    • 86167

                    #10
                    Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

                    Originally posted by djjimkelly
                    i just love how edwards gets a pass about the wrs and offensive coordinator but somehow JP was supposed to rise above it all
                    JP was one of the problems. That one is fixed now.

                    Fairchild is history. Fixed.

                    Hopefully we upgrade at WR and TE, and the o-line continues to improve.
                    YardRat Wall of Fame
                    #56 DARRYL TALLEY
                    #29 DERRICK BURROUGHS#22 FRED JACKSON #95 KYLE WILLIAMS

                    Comment

                    • Tatonka
                      Registered User
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 21289

                      #11
                      Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

                      great post pat.. i agree with just about everything.
                      "All hockey players are bilingual. They know English and profanity." ~ Gordie Howe

                      Comment

                      • djjimkelly
                        Registered User
                        • Apr 2003
                        • 7045

                        #12
                        Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

                        Originally posted by shelby
                        In fairness, this is Trent's rookie season. JP had four seasons to get it together and showed that he could not.

                        in fairness JP didnt ever have a pass protecting o line of this caliber

                        also these wrs are a joke.

                        also the 2006 bills would destroy the 2007 bills

                        we beat alot of bad teams this year i doubt we play this many bad teams in one season again for 10 years

                        and i refuse to buy the fact edwards was such a wish for this GM or coaching staff considering how we came to acquire him.

                        its way too cooincidental that JP calls out the OC between week 2 and 3 and then has issues being back on the field.

                        once again its not that i want JP back as qb i want someone completely new now considering this GM and staff have ruined JP for buffalo.

                        but trent will never be the one i saw it from the start others are getting to see it now.

                        i truly wish we didnt have to look for a qb in draft or FA the truth is we have to in a big way. problem is a big time wr is what we need as option 1A

                        Comment

                        • feelthepain
                          All-Pro Zoner
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 4663

                          #13
                          Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

                          I think a big time "clutch" WR and a two way TE would do Edwards a world of good. I think your Oline will be better next year. Your secondary is very suspect and so are your LB's and your Dline is smallish...but quick. I think the Bills need more talent not youth, however if they can get both that's a good thing. Your QB may not be Brady or Favre, but he is better then anyone you've had behind center since Kelly. If your owner would just take the plunge, the Bills could be a playoff team, although I'm not crazy about your HC.
                          Last edited by feelthepain; 12-24-2007, 12:42 PM.

                          Comment

                          • colin
                            Drew's my hero!
                            • Jul 2002
                            • 2491

                            #14
                            Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

                            i know our interior blocking is not as good as we'd like, and our DTs are not great, but they are not a real weakness compared to our other positions.

                            to me the biggest thing is we are just not big and tough at wr and lb.

                            those are the positions that make the most plays (wr's catch most the passes, lbs make most the tackles, and in our d they cover as well). evans is good at times, and crowell is good at times. even donte (who had some horrible mistakes in the game) is an impactful player when he charges in and stuffs a run, but on dozens of routine plays opponents get first downs, completions, or big runs when our LBs take bad angles and flat out miss tackles.

                            our d produces a lot of negative plays, we also jam up plenty of runs at the line and swarm over short passes. the problem is if we don't out scheme the opponent we just suck. our LBs just can't shed a block and make a play, or cut into a lane and wrap up a guy. they don't get enough depth on a regular basis and although i'll keep crowell, dipizza and ellison are both really bad players.

                            in the secondary we lost clements and ko, and replaced them with some pretty bad players, that's why our pass D (along with bad lb play) is so awful. we are better this year against the run, that is on the scheme being more aggressive and our D line isn't as bad as everyone thinks it is.

                            on O we obviously suck, but to me the biggest thing is our WRs are a friggen joke. they can't outjump anyone, they can't go accross the middle, and they don't have good hands. reed and evans dropped easy passes all year, and while they look like players when they catch a fluke or are wide open and get a perfect pass, every team we play ignores any passing threat and just plays aggressive with lots of guys near the line.

                            i think we need to draft, trade, or sing in FA at least one WR and one LB.

                            Comment

                            • patmoran2006
                              Ole' Ralphie SCROOGE
                              • Dec 2005
                              • 19840

                              #15
                              Re: Moran's Monday Morning Quarterback

                              Originally posted by djjimkelly
                              in fairness JP didnt ever have a pass protecting o line of this caliber

                              also these wrs are a joke.

                              also the 2006 bills would destroy the 2007 bills

                              we beat alot of bad teams this year i doubt we play this many bad teams in one season again for 10 years

                              and i refuse to buy the fact edwards was such a wish for this GM or coaching staff considering how we came to acquire him.

                              its way too cooincidental that JP calls out the OC between week 2 and 3 and then has issues being back on the field.

                              once again its not that i want JP back as qb i want someone completely new now considering this GM and staff have ruined JP for buffalo.

                              but trent will never be the one i saw it from the start others are getting to see it now.

                              i truly wish we didnt have to look for a qb in draft or FA the truth is we have to in a big way. problem is a big time wr is what we need as option 1A
                              JP did have a O-line is this pass protecting calibre. He had it THIS year and with far more experience than Edwards. He did NOTHING with it. The game against Jacksonville in essence ended his Bills career, and it's the way he deserved to go out; clueless, rattled and largely ineffective.

                              I agree the WR's are a joke, but whether I do or not they're the same for both QB's.

                              The 2006 Bills wouldn't destroy the 2007 Bills or any future Bills team. The O-Line is better this year and so are the running backs (far and away). The defense sucked last year WITH Clements, Fletch and Spikes.

                              And lastly, if the team wasn't very high on Edwards, they wouldn't have drafted him. Apparently, at least by public opinion, QB wasn't a need. We needed corners, linebackers and all kinds of ****, yet Levy still drafted Levy. That SHOULD confirm what you still don't realize; that Losman isn't a very good NFL quarterback. If you take nothing else away from this season; take solace in that the quarterback position will be far more stable with a more experience Edwards.


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