Now that the realists were right again...

[HHURRICANE]

Now that we are absolutely sure that we are finishing in the 7-9 to 9-7 range as some of us predicted, I think it's safe to say that we have some major holes that need to get figured out in the off-season:

1) Our D sucks. No matter how you slice it the last 2 weeks proved that we have the worst run D in the league with our pass D is not far behind. We need another DT and some DEs to challenge the 2 useless white guys we have. I actually believe that DE is more improtant than LB and will be the first to say Briggs is a waste of money to bring here.

2) Evans proved to me that he's a faster version of Reed and not as reliable. Time to get a real #1 receiver to challenge Evans for the spot. Evans or the new guy will be our #2 and hopefully send Price into retirement.

3) Time to bring in a #3 RB because Wright and Thomas belong on the same bus out of here. Wright is looking like a bad pick in the 4th but that's the way the ball bounces sometimes.

4) I do not want a TE. I would rather see us spend the money on back up O-lineman that can rotate. For those who think we are replacing Fowler I can tell you right now it won't happen.

Prediction for next year:

9-7 or 10-6 which means that the playoffs will most likely be missed again.

[OpIv37]

You're wrong. We have 3 useless white guys at DE.

[djjimkelly]

You're wrong. We have 3 useless white guys at DE.


1 of them could be a nice project at LB in a 3-4 scheme :couch:

[OpIv37]

Seriously, though- I agree that the DL simply isn't good enough, but with the money we've spent on Schobel, Kelsay, Tripplett and to a lesser extent, Denney, I don't see any moves being made here, We could use an upgrade at LB, but if Poz comes back and either he or DiGiorgio can put Ellison on the bench, we'll be ok. Whitner is the most overrated part of the D- and before anyone blames it on the pass rush- the pass rush didn't run into the punter or take a bad angle and get beat to the endzone on the running play.

I think Evans would be fine if he had someone to take pressure off, but we need a true #2 receiver and we do need to get rid of Price (he has a backloaded contract so he's probably already on the short list of "cap casualties).

I agree with your assessment of Wright and Thomas, but it's a #3 RB- who cares? We should pay more attention to other positions.

A good receiving TE like Clarke would make life easier for Evans and whoever we get to play #2 WR.

As far as predictions for next year, I'll wait to see who we lose/get in the off-season before commenting.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Now that we are absolutely sure that we are finishing in the 7-9 to 9-7 range as some of us predicted, I think it's safe to say that we have some major holes that need to get figured out in the off-season:

1) Our D sucks. No matter how you slice it the last 2 weeks proved that we have the worst run D in the league with our pass D is not far behind. We need another DT and some DEs to challenge the 2 useless white guys we have. I actually believe that DE is more improtant than LB and will be the first to say Briggs is a waste of money to bring here.

2) Evans proved to me that he's a faster version of Reed and not as reliable. Time to get a real #1 receiver to challenge Evans for the spot. Evans or the new guy will be our #2 and hopefully send Price into retirement.

3) Time to bring in a #3 RB because Wright and Thomas belong on the same bus out of here. Wright is looking like a bad pick in the 4th but that's the way the ball bounces sometimes.

4) I do not want a TE. I would rather see us spend the money on back up O-lineman that can rotate. For those who think we are replacing Fowler I can tell you right now it won't happen.

Prediction for next year:

9-7 or 10-6 which means that the playoffs will most likely be missed again.
I thought the realists were calling for 4-12 to 6-10.

[Philagape]

I disagree about the TE. There's an interesting article about the revolution of the position, and it points out how a good TE can make a difference.

"The teams that have the most productive passing games and are most wide-open are the most successful," said Redskins offensive guru Al Saunders, who has coached the original Kellen Winslow, Gonzalez and now Cooley.

"When you have somebody that can be a part of the running game as well as the passing game and be efficient, now you add more dimension to your offense. And I've always maintained that an offense that's unpredictable is an offense that has an opportunity for great success."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-tightend-revolution&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Elminster]

I thought the realists were calling for 4-12 to 6-10. Heehee...we win! AGAIN!:cheers:
I predicted 8-8 as a low-range record. So, I think some explaining is in order, Hurricane.

As for what Op said, it's sadly right. I feel like a broken record, but why don't we start McCargo? Is our coaching staff the only bunch of morons in the world who doesn't think that they're not losing anything by starting him over Tripp? I mean, looking at it from a safe, avoid-losing point of view.

[HHURRICANE]

I disagree about the TE. There's an interesting article about the revolution of the position, and it points out how a good TE can make a difference.

"The teams that have the most productive passing games and are most wide-open are the most successful," said Redskins offensive guru Al Saunders, who has coached the original Kellen Winslow, Gonzalez and now Cooley.

"When you have somebody that can be a part of the running game as well as the passing game and be efficient, now you add more dimension to your offense. And I've always maintained that an offense that's unpredictable is an offense that has an opportunity for great success."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-tightend-revolution&prov=ap&type=lgns

There have been numerous articles written on the TE position. The only way it works is if you have a special talent. It's about as specialized as QB. Winslow was a slam dunk a few years ago. I don't see anybody in the draft or FA that will be available for Buffalo to make an impact so I think we should concentrate on other positions.

[HHURRICANE]

I thought the realists were calling for 4-12 to 6-10.

Pull my prediction threads. I has us at 7-9 worst case and 9-7 best case.

What I didn't do was put us in the Superbowl or playoffs.

[JPFBillsFan]

We need the following:

A real DE like Allen, stop wasting money on bums like Schobel/Kelsey. Denny isn't that bad
A real TE like Tony Gonzalez. Without a real TE our Passing attack will continue to struggle. Gaines & Royal don't cut it.
A real DT. I love McCargo and I like Williams. Tripplet's time has come and gone. Bring in a monster like Haynesworth
An upgrade at OLB. Poz will be rusty at first, so he'll need to good Vets on the outside. Crowell is 1, just need another.
A real SS. Bob Sanders would be HUGE on this team. Love Whitner, but don't love the way he plays. Move him to CB.
Obviously a #2, but more importantly a TALL #2.

All of this is a pipe dream. RW/Marv at most will bring in 2-3 free agents we've all never heard of. And the beat goes on...at OBD

[HHURRICANE]

We need the following:

A real DE like Allen, stop wasting money on bums like Schobel/Kelsey. Denny isn't that bad
A real TE like Tony Gonzalez. Without a real TE our Passing attack will continue to struggle. Gaines & Royal don't cut it.
A real DT. I love McCargo and I like Williams. Tripplet's time has come and gone. Bring in a monster like Haynesworth
An upgrade at OLB. Poz will be rusty at first, so he'll need to good Vets on the outside. Crowell is 1, just need another.
A real SS. Bob Sanders would be HUGE on this team. Love Whitner, but don't love the way he plays. Move him to CB.
Obviously a #2, but more importantly a TALL #2.

All of this is a pipe dream. RW/Marv at most will bring in 2-3 free agents we've all never heard of. And the beat goes on...at OBD


Like the post. A couple of thougts:

1) Wanting a great TE is like wanting a great QB. Getting one is alot harder than it sounds.

2) I'm certainly scared that the Bills could be less tham impactful in FA justifying that injuries kept starters off of the field and we don't need as much. Scary but only time will tell.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What I didn't do was put us in the Superbowl or playoffs.
First off NO ONE predicted Superbowl so why even mention the fact that you didn't mark us down for something 100% of us didn't mark us down for... WOW WHAT A PREDICTION!!!

Secondly most "homers" predicted in the 7-9 9-7 range. Again the Realists were saying after the 0-3 start that the Bills may not win 1 game this year.

[justasportsfan]

I thought the realists were calling for 4-12 to 6-10.


different sides are calling themselves the realist.

[justasportsfan]

First off NO ONE predicted Superbowl so why even mention the fact that you didn't mark us down for something 100% of us didn't mark us down for... WOW WHAT A PREDICTION!!!

Secondly most "homers" predicted in the 7-9 9-7 range. Again the Realists were saying after the 0-3 start that the Bills may not win 1 game this year.
He likes to gloat. Skooby didn't predict sb so I guess he must be a realist.

[THATHURMANATOR]

different sides are calling themselves the realist.
I can't keep it straight anymore!!! :(

[justasportsfan]

I can't keep it straight anymore!!! :(
same here. I predicted 7-9 . I must be a realist then when I was called a homer back then.

Looks like we're all realists because no one predicted sb.

[bigbub2352]

HH and Opvi37 i agree with u guyz on alot of your comments, but i have to add some off my own

1. DT needs to be hugly upgraded, Opvi37 when u have single blocking on the DT all the time or the DT is gettin blown up all day like Tripllett and Williams usually do on every pass play that leave max protect for the DE wich means that the tackles no they have help inside from a blocking back or interior lineman and can take the DE to the outside all day, my point being, WE need a huge upgrade up the middle, Tripplett for his 3 plays he made all year has and will continue to be a bust FA pick up there, we need size and pocket pushing ability here, someone who can hole up against the run, ala Haynesworth
he is not the best locker room guy but he would be a hell of an upgrade next to Mccargo and keep triplett and Williams as depth, this is were we need to spend out money in FA, not many DT will be coming out with huge potential excpet ones that will be long gone when we draft, Then u build the D like u r suppossed to from the inside out just like baseball

2. WR we need either a number 2 to compliment Lee or a number 1 and allow Lee to go back to 2, wither way we need a redzone threat and an over the middle threat that gets those safties away from the deep routes, this is were our 1st round pick should be spent hands down, i want Hardy form INdiana FA who i would like would be Ernest Wilford, Jerry Porter, Bryant Johnson, Bernard Berrian, DJ Hackett all FAs

3. TE is a major need we need a recieiving TE in the worst way someone who can get consistenly open underneath and get those Lbers off the inside slant patterns they now take away from our WRs cause Reed and Parrish cant get open over there cause they are two small, and Royal cant run routes and Gaines is inconcistent with catching, if we go into next year with Royal at 2 and Gaines at 3 and spend our 2nd or one of our 3rds on say Bennet from ole miss or someone of his caliber and size we could be real soild her next year LJ Smith would be bad to look at in FA, Clarke aint goin anywhere

4. LBer- u wanna stop the run with 2 lbers that weigh 220lbs, not gonna happen next year Ellison and Dig will be solid depth and ST players, and should kick bums like Stamer and Aiken off the team so we dont have anymore useless depth and ST speciallists that contirubute to nothing but 4-5plays a game U could draft here for this in the 2nd or one of the thirds as well, but if u were gonna throw money out in FA here too i would luv Carlos Dansby from ARZ, you wanna stop the run bring in a Lber who runs like POZ and is 6ft 3 and weighs 250lbs, and is only 25 and will be awesome in this scheme super athletic, Poz Crowell and Him would be one of the most upcoming groups in the league

5. C- Fowler is the reason we cant run between the tackles, he is bull rushed easily as well as beaten with alraming consistency on blitzs and good pass rushing DTs, he doesnt pick up on stunts either, and cant hold his block at the point of attack very long, we dont trap because of him and we dont pull much beacuse of him, there is not much misdirection cause he cant hold his back side blocking long enough for the play to develop which leads us to 90% of the time runnin the ball up the middle and between the tackles, under utilizing our playmaking RBs

6. H-Back, or FB we need a real one with patch catching ability and there are a few coming out in the draft, as well as developing Schouman who looked real strong for a 7th round pick at the postion

7. DE- an actual pass rushing DE to creat trouble on the 3rd and whatever we r so famous for giving up 8 times a game, get someone in FA or in draft but someone to bring in on 3rd downs , and cut Denney's useless ass and give Hargrove more playing time

8. CB- depth here maybe a late pcik

9. LS- unless they luv Neil, drafting a guy in the late rds or picking up a vet wouldnt be a bad idea

10. Vet QB backup or late rd draft pick of a QB would be nice, do it with the pick we get for Losman assuming it is a 4th or lower

11. A real offensive cordiantor someone who can call plays with confidence, someone who know the players on his team and who should be gettin the ball, someone who can call plays that dont require running it up the middle, calls playactions, screens to the TE, WR , RB ,Hback, one who runs plays to the outside, we bost a LT who is most atletic at his postion u ever see him pull? i didnt think so

other than that we have 30 million under the cap and 10 picks not including trade losman or compensary picks lets actually make a run some of the peices are here time to do it for a change 8yrs now out of the playoffs!!!

[OpIv37]

same here. I predicted 7-9 . I must be a realist then when I was called a homer back then.

Looks like we're all realists because no one predicted sb.


Skooby did.

and several people predicted playoffs.

[G. Host]

Now that we are absolutely sure that we are finishing in the 7-9 to 9-7 range as some of us predicted, I think it's safe to say that we have some major holes that need to get figured out in the off-season:

Most of the "realists" were predicting 4-7 wins but this is not a "reality" they are willing to admit.

[HHURRICANE]

He likes to gloat. Skooby didn't predict sb so I guess he must be a realist.

I like to make good posts and decisions based on facts and reality.

Do you know why there is a homer and realist debate every year?

Because some of you make these bold predictions that aren't substantiated than get pissed when others use logic to explain why it doesn't make any sense.

Than the end of the season comes, and people like me are right, and now I'm a "gloater" where 5 months earlier I was a "negative nancy".

All I know is that I seem to be right alot so either I'm psychic or I think things through instead of "bleeding red and blue".

[justasportsfan]

Skooby did.

and several people predicted playoffs.


He did? What a realist.

[HHURRICANE]

Most of the "realists" were predicting 4-7 wins but this is not a "reality" they are willing to admit.

I agree but I think the real deabte was playoffs vs. no-playoffs.

[justasportsfan]

Because some of you make these bold predictions that aren't substantiated than get pissed when others use logic to explain why it doesn't make any sense. I predicted 7-9 so if thats a bold prediction, so bet it. I must be a homer for making that bold prediction then. Oh wait, you predicted 7-9 too. :coocoo:



Than the end of the season comes, and people like me are right, and now I'm a "gloater" where 5 months earlier I was a "negative nancy".

Op and myself and others were right too . You don't see us going around advertising "look at me, I was right. Yoohoo! You were wrong!!"

[OpIv37]

A real DE like Allen, stop wasting money on bums like Schobel/Kelsey. Denny isn't that bad


When we first gave Denney the extension, I was mad- but since then, the cap's gone up twice.

Denney is what he is- a rotational guy who can come in and hold his own and occasionally make a play or two. He's not better than Kelsay or Schobel but he's a much better overall value because he performs at a level that's sufficient at his salary. Schobel is a slightly above average DE who gets paid like he's the second coming of Bruce Smith. Kelsay is a feast or famine guy- he gets a huge play or has a huge game then goes dormant.

Or, to say it another way- Denney's not a starting DE in this league but he does what he gets paid to do, and does an adequate job of it. Kelsay and Schobel can't make their production match their salaries.

[OpIv37]

HH and Opvi37 i agree with u guyz on alot of your comments, but i have to add some off my own

1. DT needs to be hugly upgraded, Opvi37 when u have single blocking on the DT all the time or the DT is gettin blown up all day like Tripllett and Williams usually do on every pass play that leave max protect for the DE wich means that the tackles no they have help inside from a blocking back or interior lineman and can take the DE to the outside all day, my point being, WE need a huge upgrade up the middle, Tripplett for his 3 plays he made all year has and will continue to be a bust FA pick up there, we need size and pocket pushing ability here, someone who can hole up against the run, ala Haynesworth
he is not the best locker room guy but he would be a hell of an upgrade next to Mccargo and keep triplett and Williams as depth, this is were we need to spend out money in FA, not many DT will be coming out with huge potential excpet ones that will be long gone when we draft, Then u build the D like u r suppossed to from the inside out just like baseball

2. WR we need either a number 2 to compliment Lee or a number 1 and allow Lee to go back to 2, wither way we need a redzone threat and an over the middle threat that gets those safties away from the deep routes, this is were our 1st round pick should be spent hands down, i want Hardy form INdiana FA who i would like would be Ernest Wilford, Jerry Porter, Bryant Johnson, Bernard Berrian, DJ Hackett all FAs

3. TE is a major need we need a recieiving TE in the worst way someone who can get consistenly open underneath and get those Lbers off the inside slant patterns they now take away from our WRs cause Reed and Parrish cant get open over there cause they are two small, and Royal cant run routes and Gaines is inconcistent with catching, if we go into next year with Royal at 2 and Gaines at 3 and spend our 2nd or one of our 3rds on say Bennet from ole miss or someone of his caliber and size we could be real soild her next year LJ Smith would be bad to look at in FA, Clarke aint goin anywhere

4. LBer- u wanna stop the run with 2 lbers that weigh 220lbs, not gonna happen next year Ellison and Dig will be solid depth and ST players, and should kick bums like Stamer and Aiken off the team so we dont have anymore useless depth and ST speciallists that contirubute to nothing but 4-5plays a game U could draft here for this in the 2nd or one of the thirds as well, but if u were gonna throw money out in FA here too i would luv Carlos Dansby from ARZ, you wanna stop the run bring in a Lber who runs like POZ and is 6ft 3 and weighs 250lbs, and is only 25 and will be awesome in this scheme super athletic, Poz Crowell and Him would be one of the most upcoming groups in the league

5. C- Fowler is the reason we cant run between the tackles, he is bull rushed easily as well as beaten with alraming consistency on blitzs and good pass rushing DTs, he doesnt pick up on stunts either, and cant hold his block at the point of attack very long, we dont trap because of him and we dont pull much beacuse of him, there is not much misdirection cause he cant hold his back side blocking long enough for the play to develop which leads us to 90% of the time runnin the ball up the middle and between the tackles, under utilizing our playmaking RBs

6. H-Back, or FB we need a real one with patch catching ability and there are a few coming out in the draft, as well as developing Schouman who looked real strong for a 7th round pick at the postion

7. DE- an actual pass rushing DE to creat trouble on the 3rd and whatever we r so famous for giving up 8 times a game, get someone in FA or in draft but someone to bring in on 3rd downs , and cut Denney's useless ass and give Hargrove more playing time

8. CB- depth here maybe a late pcik

9. LS- unless they luv Neil, drafting a guy in the late rds or picking up a vet wouldnt be a bad idea

10. Vet QB backup or late rd draft pick of a QB would be nice, do it with the pick we get for Losman assuming it is a 4th or lower

11. A real offensive cordiantor someone who can call plays with confidence, someone who know the players on his team and who should be gettin the ball, someone who can call plays that dont require running it up the middle, calls playactions, screens to the TE, WR , RB ,Hback, one who runs plays to the outside, we bost a LT who is most atletic at his postion u ever see him pull? i didnt think so

other than that we have 30 million under the cap and 10 picks not including trade losman or compensary picks lets actually make a run some of the peices are here time to do it for a change 8yrs now out of the playoffs!!!


1. I agree with you that we need help on the DL, particularly at DT, but I just don't see us getting it with the amount we already have tied up at DT.

2. We definitely need a tall receiver for the #1 or #2 slot.

3. I'd love to see us throw wads of cash at Clarke- he'd really open up our entire offense, but you're right- LJ Smith is a lot more realistic and a definite improvement over Royal and Gaines.

4. This team keeps players for ST who can't play offensive or defensive positions, and sometimes it comes back to hurt us. I definitely want to see Ellison on the bench. DiG could go either way- he had some real good games and some real bad ones.

5. Agreed- Fowler needs to be upgraded.

6. Use Schouman as H Back and find a bigger guy to be FB.

7. See my first comment about the DL. I think both Hargrove and Denney would look better if they stopped putting them in at the same time.

8. They should start Youboty against the Giants and see how he does. I really don't think our CB's are that bad.

9. We paid the price for cutting Schneck.

10. I'd even put this higher on the list. There are enough teams out there that need QB's- we can get something for Losman. Then we should bring in a vet to help develop Trent and hopefully push him for a starting job.

11. We're halfway there- Fairchild is out- we just need the right guy to replace him.

[Kerr]

In no particular order:

1) I just think Whitner needs to do a lot of work on basic fundamentals like tackling and taking angles in the offseason. People are talking about bob sanders, but both of them have put up almost similar numbers. Him only being 22 might have something to do with it. He may need some more time to mature. What I do think they should do as a backup plan is start grooming Wendling in that role. I've heard good things of wendling coming out of wymoing as a possible john lynch type of player.
2) We do need new linemen. People say our DE's struggle because of double teams and/or lack of talent at DT. While lack of talent at DT may affect gameplans, good DE's find ways to make plays in single battles in spite of their environment. Schobel and Kelsay have gotten owned single handedly many times. We need to upgrade one of those spots. Therefore, I am open to signing a guy like Suggs to replace one of these guys. One of them can be traded for a player or a pick. Suggs is a proven reliable DE. DT can be upgraded with a guy like haynesworth or corey williams. Either guy would do, just get tripplet on the bench and start McCargo.
3) Wr's is a must. The draft and FA alters signings in the offseason. They need a guy with size and good hands. A guy like Malcom Kelly could make an impact or not.
4) TE's help, but Dallas Clark looks to be a system TE. Unless they sign Jim Caldwell from indy as OC, I don't see it working. An athletic TE like LJ Smith would be nice, but he'd command more money. A guy like Ben Troupe who has size and athleticism would be affordable and up upgrade over Royal.

[Johnny Bugmenot]

You're wrong. We have 3 useless white guys at DE.

What does race have anything to do with it?

Rush Limbaugh gets ridden out of town for making comments about black quarterbacks yet people around here get away with criticizing the defensive line around here because they're white.

[eyedog]

Since we all pretty much agree our d-line sucks, could someone please tell me why we always pass up good d-lineman in the draft for safeties and wide receivers ?

And yes our coaches are stupid. Remember Webster and Thomas had to get hurt before Greer got a chance, and A-train had to get hurt before Jackson got his chance.

[OpIv37]

What does race have anything to do with it?

Rush Limbaugh gets ridden out of town for making comments about black quarterbacks yet people around here get away with criticizing the defensive line around here because they're white.

ask Jimmy the Greek.

[HHURRICANE]

HH and Opvi37 i agree with u guyz on alot of your comments, but i have to add some off my own

1. DT needs to be hugly upgraded, Opvi37 when u have single blocking on the DT all the time or the DT is gettin blown up all day like Tripllett and Williams usually do on every pass play that leave max protect for the DE wich means that the tackles no they have help inside from a blocking back or interior lineman and can take the DE to the outside all day, my point being, WE need a huge upgrade up the middle, Tripplett for his 3 plays he made all year has and will continue to be a bust FA pick up there, we need size and pocket pushing ability here, someone who can hole up against the run, ala Haynesworth
he is not the best locker room guy but he would be a hell of an upgrade next to Mccargo and keep triplett and Williams as depth, this is were we need to spend out money in FA, not many DT will be coming out with huge potential excpet ones that will be long gone when we draft, Then u build the D like u r suppossed to from the inside out just like baseball

2. WR we need either a number 2 to compliment Lee or a number 1 and allow Lee to go back to 2, wither way we need a redzone threat and an over the middle threat that gets those safties away from the deep routes, this is were our 1st round pick should be spent hands down, i want Hardy form INdiana FA who i would like would be Ernest Wilford, Jerry Porter, Bryant Johnson, Bernard Berrian, DJ Hackett all FAs

3. TE is a major need we need a recieiving TE in the worst way someone who can get consistenly open underneath and get those Lbers off the inside slant patterns they now take away from our WRs cause Reed and Parrish cant get open over there cause they are two small, and Royal cant run routes and Gaines is inconcistent with catching, if we go into next year with Royal at 2 and Gaines at 3 and spend our 2nd or one of our 3rds on say Bennet from ole miss or someone of his caliber and size we could be real soild her next year LJ Smith would be bad to look at in FA, Clarke aint goin anywhere

4. LBer- u wanna stop the run with 2 lbers that weigh 220lbs, not gonna happen next year Ellison and Dig will be solid depth and ST players, and should kick bums like Stamer and Aiken off the team so we dont have anymore useless depth and ST speciallists that contirubute to nothing but 4-5plays a game U could draft here for this in the 2nd or one of the thirds as well, but if u were gonna throw money out in FA here too i would luv Carlos Dansby from ARZ, you wanna stop the run bring in a Lber who runs like POZ and is 6ft 3 and weighs 250lbs, and is only 25 and will be awesome in this scheme super athletic, Poz Crowell and Him would be one of the most upcoming groups in the league

5. C- Fowler is the reason we cant run between the tackles, he is bull rushed easily as well as beaten with alraming consistency on blitzs and good pass rushing DTs, he doesnt pick up on stunts either, and cant hold his block at the point of attack very long, we dont trap because of him and we dont pull much beacuse of him, there is not much misdirection cause he cant hold his back side blocking long enough for the play to develop which leads us to 90% of the time runnin the ball up the middle and between the tackles, under utilizing our playmaking RBs

6. H-Back, or FB we need a real one with patch catching ability and there are a few coming out in the draft, as well as developing Schouman who looked real strong for a 7th round pick at the postion

7. DE- an actual pass rushing DE to creat trouble on the 3rd and whatever we r so famous for giving up 8 times a game, get someone in FA or in draft but someone to bring in on 3rd downs , and cut Denney's useless ass and give Hargrove more playing time

8. CB- depth here maybe a late pcik

9. LS- unless they luv Neil, drafting a guy in the late rds or picking up a vet wouldnt be a bad idea

10. Vet QB backup or late rd draft pick of a QB would be nice, do it with the pick we get for Losman assuming it is a 4th or lower

11. A real offensive cordiantor someone who can call plays with confidence, someone who know the players on his team and who should be gettin the ball, someone who can call plays that dont require running it up the middle, calls playactions, screens to the TE, WR , RB ,Hback, one who runs plays to the outside, we bost a LT who is most atletic at his postion u ever see him pull? i didnt think so

other than that we have 30 million under the cap and 10 picks not including trade losman or compensary picks lets actually make a run some of the peices are here time to do it for a change 8yrs now out of the playoffs!!!


This is why bigbub continues to be the best poster on this board.

Brilliant. Excellent post as usual.

[OpIv37]

Since we all pretty much agree our d-line sucks, could someone please tell me why we always pass up good d-lineman in the draft for safeties and wide receivers ?


If I remember correctly, isn't that pretty much why we sucked for 6 years and isn't that a big reason why TD got fired?

[THATHURMANATOR]

same here. I predicted 7-9 . I must be a realist then when I was called a homer back then.

Looks like we're all realists because no one predicted sb.
Justa we are realists... I never thought we would see the day!

[bigbub2352]

This is why bigbub continues to be the best poster on this board.

Brilliant. Excellent post as usual.

Thanx i really appreciate it, i am just frustrated with this teams lack of vision, i played football my whole life and still do (semipro) and if i can see this why cant the FO, or the cordiantors, it really is football 101 with alof of what is wrong with the decision making that goes on here

We need to sign at least 2 big FAs and maybe 2-3 midlevel to really move this team forward, then with10-11 piks manouever so u can get the players u need in the draft as well

i am not saying go spend crazy but 300yd rushing performances by the opposition is gettin old we need to get some beef in the middle
and some weapons to compliment MLynch and TE, Evans
long offseason so lets get it done and be competitve for a change
not be satisfied with medicracy

[Owen DeBoard]

Aaron Schobel is currently leading the AFC d-lineman in forced fumbles at 5. He is currently tied at 9th in sacks in the AFC d-lineman. He is at 11th in total tackles in the AFC d-lineman and he also has 1 fumble recovery. If you ask me that is pretty good stats for a d-lineman. Find a more consistent player on D on this team that is better than Schobel. I dont think you will.

[justasportsfan]

Justa we are realists... I never thought we would see the day!
:hi5:

We rock. We got our predictions right. NO superbowl . I might just go out and buy a lotto ticket for gettting that prediction right.

[Oaf]

You're wrong. We have 3 useless white guys at DE.
The money has been spent there. We won't be upgrading there for awhile.

So stop griping about it.
Schobel done fine by my standards, and I'd like to see you point out how he is any different from last year except for his sack total which is the most overrated stat in football anyways.

[G. Host]

Schobel also played a lot more downs this year due to injuries/suspension on other DEs. Maybe some would argue he should have gotten more stats as if they were important but he also carried a heavier portion of the load.

[Jan Reimers]

I've said it before: A big 2nd WR, a pass catching TE, a stud DT and a pass rushing DE gets us into the playoffs. With the guys we have playing now plus those coming off IR, we're OK everywhere else.

But adding 4 quality players in the offseason is not that easy.

[jmb1099]

First of all the realist/homer thing is getting really old. No one could have predicted the rash of injuries that we suffered this year. Despite all of that we were at least in a position to challenge for a playoff spot. Not one single "realist" had even given us a shot of sniffing the playoffs. Yes we have a lot of work to do, but at the end of the season everyone has a lot of work to do. It doesn't matter who was right or wrong in this. For every homer that made a foolish prediction there was a realist making an equally stupid prediction. Predictions are ok, trying to make people feel stupid for participating in the time honored tradition of making such predictions is not. Let it go and instead of focusing on the realist/homer debate, focus on what you think the team needs to take it to the next level.
I agree with Jan, we need receivers.

[HHURRICANE]

First of all the realist/homer thing is getting really old. No one could have predicted the rash of injuries that we suffered this year. Despite all of that we were at least in a position to challenge for a playoff spot. Not one single "realist" had even given us a shot of sniffing the playoffs. Yes we have a lot of work to do, but at the end of the season everyone has a lot of work to do. It doesn't matter who was right or wrong in this. For every homer that made a foolish prediction there was a realist making an equally stupid prediction. Predictions are ok, trying to make people feel stupid for participating in the time honored tradition of making such predictions is not. Let it go and instead of focusing on the realist/homer debate, focus on what you think the team needs to take it to the next level.
I agree with Jan, we need receivers.

Nobody is trying to make anyone feel stupid, especially me.

The issue, and alot of times with this board, is that people make predictions, arguments, or just plain attacks without one shread of fact to back it up.

If anything the "realists" are the ones that get hammered because they are accused of "not being fans" even though they post their argument out their and get ridiculed every single time.

The chronic attackers never post an original argument or thought because it might open them up to scrutiny.

Look at how many threads I start in the off-season to get poeple to think and stay interested. Like them or not they are entertaining.

And for the record I like putting myself out there. At least I have the gonads to do it. And by the way many of us got roasted for saying this wasn't a playoff team and now we are the bad guys for saying we were right.

[TedMock]

I think we still need another DT, but I don't think that's as huge a problem as some say. I realize that on the the surface we see a ton of rushing yardage and say that the DT's are at fault. That makes sense. My point is that when our DT's penetrate the gaps (which they are actually solid in doing) the LB's and safeties (except Whitner) are not making the stops at the line. People rave about DiGiorgio, but the truth is that he makes tackles 6 yards down field a la Scott Radicic. Crowell over-commits, but that's correctable, so I'll give him a slight pass. However, he needs to be smarter than he has. He's a heck of a talent who has been caught cheating in his assignments and it has burned him. Losing Poz was huge. DiGiorgio may be better suited on the outside, but I don't really know what his speed is like. I also think losing Simpson has turned out to be huge. Whitner has been forced to play a few positions. When at strong safety, he's fine. Very good, in fact. He plays well at athe line and makes the tackle when filling holes. Wilson is ok in coverage, but not at the line and Leonhard has been a liability in both spots. We were in the game Sunday until that long run by the Giants backup RB. The DT's took their gaps properly and Leonhard missed the tackle at the line of scrimmage. It was his responsibility. Nobody elses. The defense called was the right one and he flat-out whiffed head on. Unacceptable.

I'd still like a bigger DT, but they have been ok this year in what they're being asked to do. McCargo has played well, but Williams misses his at times.

[jmb1099]

Nobody is trying to make anyone feel stupid, especially me.

The issue, and alot of times with this board, is that people make predictions, arguments, or just plain attacks without one shread of fact to back it up.

If anything the "realists" are the ones that get hammered because they are accused of "not being fans" even though they post their argument out their and get ridiculed every single time.

The chronic attackers never post an original argument or thought because it might open them up to scrutiny.

Look at how many threads I start in the off-season to get poeple to think and stay interested. Like them or not they are entertaining.

And for the record I like putting myself out there. At least I have the gonads to do it. And by the way many of us got roasted for saying this wasn't a playoff team and now we are the bad guys for saying we were right.
Your thread title says otherwise. I generally appreciate your posts agree or disagree, but this thread is meant to incite people. Sure realists get hammered on, but the fact that you brought that up indicates to me that this thread is at least in part an attempt to be vindictive. Aside from that, the most vocal doom and gloomers were wrong too.
So lets get past the personal right or wrong crap because it doesn't matter. Either way we're not in and we have lot's of work to do. So lets focus on that instead of this whole realist homer junk.

[OpIv37]

The money has been spent there. We won't be upgrading there for awhile.

So stop griping about it.
Schobel done fine by my standards, and I'd like to see you point out how he is any different from last year except for his sack total which is the most overrated stat in football anyways.

yeah, why should we expect DE's to get sacks, especially highly paid ones? :rolleyes:

Our DT's don't get sacks even though the scheme calls for it, we don't blitz and when we do it doesn't get there on time, and now our DE's aren't getting sacks. So, where exactly is our QB pressure supposed to come from? Or do you find it acceptable to let guys like Brady sit back in the pocket and shred our D all day?

Ever notice how far outside Schobel lines up trying to get to the QB? Few if any other teams do that- I've seen a few other teams do it situationally but no one does it as much as the Bills. The reason is because it creates a HUGE running lane between the DE and the DT, and other teams exploit it.

Schobel was invisible for a lot of this season- he's useless in the running game and you said it yourself: he didn't get sacks. You call it the most overrated stat in football, but you're wrong. Individual sack totals are overrated but team sack totals are not. Schobel isn't getting sacks himself OR making the kinds of plays that allow his teammates to get sacks.

To make things worse, there were crucial times towards the end of games when Denney, Hargrove and RYAN ****ING NEIL were spelling Schobel. Our high-motor DE doesn't have enough gas to be on the field at the most important points. Great.

I agree with you that the money has been spent and we won't be doing anything for a while- the problem is that the money has been poorly spent and we're going to be feeling the consequences of that for quite some time.

[John Doe]

Aaron Schobel is currently leading the AFC d-lineman in forced fumbles at 5. He is currently tied at 9th in sacks in the AFC d-lineman. He is at 11th in total tackles in the AFC d-lineman and he also has 1 fumble recovery. If you ask me that is pretty good stats for a d-lineman. Find a more consistent player on D on this team that is better than Schobel. I dont think you will.

Agreed - good post.

Schobel had a good year.

[John Doe]

yeah, why should we expect DE's to get sacks, especially highly paid ones? :rolleyes:

Our DT's don't get sacks even though the scheme calls for it, we don't blitz and when we do it doesn't get there on time, and now our DE's aren't getting sacks. So, where exactly is our QB pressure supposed to come from? Or do you find it acceptable to let guys like Brady sit back in the pocket and shred our D all day?

Ever notice how far outside Schobel lines up trying to get to the QB? Few if any other teams do that- I've seen a few other teams do it situationally but no one does it as much as the Bills. The reason is because it creates a HUGE running lane between the DE and the DT, and other teams exploit it.

Schobel was invisible for a lot of this season- he's useless in the running game and you said it yourself: he didn't get sacks. You call it the most overrated stat in football, but you're wrong. Individual sack totals are overrated but team sack totals are not. Schobel isn't getting sacks himself OR making the kinds of plays that allow his teammates to get sacks.

To make things worse, there were crucial times towards the end of games when Denney, Hargrove and RYAN ****ING NEIL were spelling Schobel. Our high-motor DE doesn't have enough gas to be on the field at the most important points. Great.

I agree with you that the money has been spent and we won't be doing anything for a while- the problem is that the money has been poorly spent and we're going to be feeling the consequences of that for quite some time.

Schobel made a lot plays this year.

I am glad that they extended his contract.

[OpIv37]

Agreed - good post.

Schobel had a good year.

yeah, it takes a lot of talent to line up way outside and run right by the QB on passing plays or let the RB get underneath on running plays! Go Schobel!

The fact that Schobel is the most consistent player on D (or at least that you guys think he is) just shows how few playmakers we actually have on D (zero- maybe McGee qualifies but that's about it).

[OpIv37]

Schobel made a lot plays this year.

no, he made a handful of plays after long periods of being invisible. Then people like you remember the few plays he made and forget about all the plays where he was completely ineffectual.

[John Doe]

yeah, it takes a lot of talent to line up way outside and run right by the QB on passing plays or let the RB get underneath on running plays! Go Schobel!

The fact that Schobel is the most consistent player on D (or at least that you guys think he is) just shows how few playmakers we actually have on D (zero- maybe McGee qualifies but that's about it).

I don't think that you watched the games closely enough.

[John Doe]

no, he made a handful of plays after long periods of being invisible. Then people like you remember the few plays he made and forget about all the plays where he was completely ineffectual.

I think that you are not giving him enough credit.

Not very honest.

[OpIv37]

I think that you are not giving him enough credit.

and I think you're giving him way too much, which is not very honest.

But we're going to have to agree to disagree on this- I'm really not in the mood to argue all day about something neither of us can prove without re-watching hours of game tape, and even then it's a matter of opinion.

Honestly, I think Schobel is probably an above average DE- he makes some plays but also has some glaring weaknesses. The problem is that the team overvalues him and is paying him too much and trying to build a D around him- it won't work.

[John Doe]

and I think you're giving him way too much, which is not very honest.

But we're going to have to agree to disagree on this- I'm really not in the mood to argue all day about something neither of us can prove without re-watching hours of game tape, and even then it's a matter of opinion.

Honestly, I think Schobel is probably an above average DE- he makes some plays but also has some glaring weaknesses. The problem is that the team overvalues him and is paying him too much and trying to build a D around him- it won't work.

Schobel has gone from slightly above average to above average in just a few posts.

You are starting to come clean.

[justasportsfan]

Your thread title says otherwise. I generally appreciate your posts agree or disagree, but this thread is meant to incite people. Sure realists get hammered on, but the fact that you brought that up indicates to me that this thread is at least in part an attempt to be vindictive. Aside from that, the most vocal doom and gloomers were wrong too.
So lets get past the personal right or wrong crap because it doesn't matter. Either way we're not in and we have lot's of work to do. So lets focus on that instead of this whole realist homer junk.
:clap:

He'll start a thread with JP in the title and say the thread isn't about JP. :crazy:

[OpIv37]

Schobel has gone from slightly above average to above average in just a few posts.

You are starting to come clean.

you're making a semantic argument and I'm not getting dragged in.

[John Doe]

you're making a semantic argument and I'm not getting dragged in.

No - you have posted three different descriptions of Schobel's playing strength in the same thread.

1. Useless
2. Slightly above average.
3. Above average.

Honestly...it's embarrassing.

[njsue]

The Bills d needs to be upgraded especially the secondary.

Off season needs:

1. Center (fowler is lousy)

2. Depth at the Lb position

3. Secondary help.

4. A play making TE such as Dallas Clark

IN MARV LEVY I DO TRUST

[G. Host]

And for the record I like putting myself out there. At least I have the gonads to do it. And by the way many of us got roasted for saying this wasn't a playoff team and now we are the bad guys for saying we were right.

It is the season for chestnuts roasting over an open fire.

There are no things as "realists" and "homers" - it is a label the so called "realists" came up with to label themselves and "opposition" trying to differentiate their views from those that spew negativity about the Bills.

[ddaryl]

The Tampa 2 D sucks. It is designed for dome teams and fair weather stadiums IMO. Just look at how great our finesse tampa 2 D did in crappy weather with crappy footing. Buffalo is about the elements and the Tampa 2 doesn't translate well here.

The problem starts on the DL. We need an imovable object in the mold of Ted Washington and Pat Williams i the middle of our DL.

And Schobel may be solid but he is, and has never been a game changer at DE. We need a pass rushing force.

Fix the DL and the rest of our D will be greatly improved.


The Offense could use an upgrade at the WR spot. I woudln't mind a better C on the OL either.

I also like the idea of a real bonafide dependable TE threat.


We better make some noise this year in FA. I'm confidnet in our drafting but we need to make some fixes with stud FA's.

[OpIv37]

It is the season for chestnuts roasting over an open fire.

There are no things as "realists" and "homers" - it is a label the so called "realists" came up with to label themselves and "opposition" trying to differentiate their views from those that spew negativity about the Bills.

actually, you are wrong- the "realists" kept pointing out that they were being realistic when the homers got pissed off about negative comments, so the homers coined the term "realists" to refer to them.

[John Doe]

actually, you are wrong- the "realists" kept pointing out that they were being realistic when the homers got pissed off about negative comments, so the homers coined the term "realists" to refer to them.

I don't think that this is correct or honest.

[colin]

The Tampa 2 D sucks. It is designed for dome teams and fair weather stadiums IMO. Just look at how great our finesse tampa 2 D did in crappy weather with crappy footing. Buffalo is about the elements and the Tampa 2 doesn't translate well here.

The problem starts on the DL. We need an imovable object in the mold of Ted Washington and Pat Williams i the middle of our DL.

And Schobel may be solid but he is, and has never been a game changer at DE. We need a pass rushing force.

Fix the DL and the rest of our D will be greatly improved.


The Offense could use an upgrade at the WR spot. I woudln't mind a better C on the OL either.

I also like the idea of a real bonafide dependable TE threat.


We better make some noise this year in FA. I'm confidnet in our drafting but we need to make some fixes with stud FA's.

chicago has had some great D's using the tampa 2, and has had to restock a few times.

the #2 and 3 Ds in the NFL are cover 2s, and both have had to restock in a big big way.

we have a bad d because we have horrible horrible players on D, and it's not aaron and donte and mccargo or even tripplet that are causing our problems.

it is the fact that we have 1 viable corner (i like greer, but we need someone with more physical play) freaking scott and leohard at safety, di pizza and ellison at lb.

our d line and particularly dt's haven't been super, but we had as of the last game 2 or maybe 3 players that could make other nfl squads in our back 7, and at least 2 or 3 who would barely make it as a back up.

i'll take a pass rusher or DT (suggs comes to mind at DE, there could be a few DTs for us) but we NEED better back 7 play. good thing we have 2 promising young guys coming back, but we need another LB and at least 1 new DB.

on O a c or rg would be nice, but we can get a young guy to grow into the role. we absolutely need an OC, at least 1 WR, and perhaps another TE as well.