Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

[YardRat]

Forked from: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

Of course Ralph is the problem.

Take out all the other variables, and he is the constant.

Some scientist you are.

Is Ralph the only constant?

Let's take this a step further and include all the variables...including the home economic region.

Ralph and the Bills won AFL championships in the mid-sixties, but even if you feel that 'doesn't count' that's fine and I'll roll with it.

Buffalo Sabres...The Knox Brothers...0 championships. Tagged with the 'cheap' label for years. John Rigas...0 championships and basically embezzled his way into ownership and then prison. Tom Golisano...0 championships, went with young, unproven talent, hasn't really broke the bank on new players, and has been labeled as cheap because of recent FA defections.

Buffalo Braves...Paul Snyder...0 championships...Sold his soul, the team, and Buffalo's presence in the NBA down the river for a couple of million bucks. John Y. Brown...0 championships...Only bought the Braves so he could leverage a deal for the Celtics. Gutted the team to pay Snyder and screwed the city.

Buffalo Bisons (not one of the big four really, but we were close)...Bob Rich...Had the finish line to MLB in his sights and then backed off because of lack of financial feasibility. Obviously you can't win a championship if you're not even interested in investing in trying.

Buffalo Bills...We all know the story here.

Bottom line...Three professional franchises out of the big four. 0 combined championships. Ralph never owned the Sabres, the Braves, or the Bisons.

But all are based in Buffalo.

So...Is it the owner, or is it the economic region the team is tied to that is the constant in the lack of championships, or even consistently successful teams?

[Buffatexas]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

I really dont think you can say that either of the two have a direct impact on whether a team wins a championship. Take a look at the cities that have not (unless you count the afl days and the first 5 super bowls) Please correct me if I am wrong as I am not an NBA fan and a regional MLB fan

Phoenix, Atlanta, Cleveland, San Diego, KC (arguably one of the best owners in football) Minnesota,...bigger cities,arguably better owners...

[YardRat]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

Phoenix has won an NBA championship, Minnesota and Atlanta World Series, and KC a Super Bowl.

The Suns used to be the only game in town, Minnesota and Atlanta have both lost NHL franchises, as has KC. Cleveland has lost both NHL and NFL teams.

Buffalo simply doesn't have the economic structure in place to give an owner the financial support he or she may need to keep up with the big boys. Rich was an intelligent enough businessman to figure that out before he got in too deep.

[Nighthawk]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

Phoenix has won an NBA championship, Minnesota and Atlanta World Series, and KC a Super Bowl.

The Suns used to be the only game in town, Minnesota and Atlanta have both lost NHL franchises, as has KC. Cleveland has lost both NHL and NFL teams.

Buffalo simply doesn't have the economic structure in place to give an owner the financial support he or she may need to keep up with the big boys. Rich was an intelligent enough businessman to figure that out before he got in too deep.

Economics does not mean you have to have stupid people running your organizations. Put smart people in place and have them run the organizations like they should be run and not like a circus and I would be happy. The problem with the Bills and Sabres is their management and their incompetence, it has nothing to do with the economy.

[YardRat]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

Economics does not mean you have to have stupid people running your organizations. Put smart people in place and have them run the organizations like they should be run and not like a circus and I would be happy. The problem with the Bills and Sabres is their management and their incompetence, it has nothing to do with the economy.

Several different owners of all the professional franchises in Buffalo sports history, the modern era.

Not one championship.

The Sabres have had three different owners...Three different 'styles'...Same results.

The common thread isn't the owner...It's the region.

Ralph brought in Chuck Knox when he was fired by the Rams. Hi-profile, successful coach...No ring. The Knox's brought in Scotty Bowman. He won everywhere he ever went...Except for Buffalo. The Braves had Jack Ramsey, who led Portland to a championship. No trophies for them either. Tom Donahoe came here as a saviour, and left a tool.

Successful businessmen understand expenses can't exceed revenues. They also understand how to run their businesses based on the economic demographics of the specific marketplace they are doing business in. They can't expect to spend money that they know they aren't going to earn to begin with.

It isn't a coincidence most owners of Buffalo sports teams are labeled as cheap at one time or another...It's a result of the marketplace they are trying to function in.

[Nighthawk]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

Several different owners of all the professional franchises in Buffalo sports history, the modern era.

Not one championship.

The Sabres have had three different owners...Three different 'styles'...Same results.

The common thread isn't the owner...It's the region.

Ralph brought in Chuck Knox when he was fired by the Rams. Hi-profile, successful coach...No ring. The Knox's brought in Scotty Bowman. He won everywhere he ever went...Except for Buffalo. The Braves had Jack Ramsey, who led Portland to a championship. No trophies for them either. Tom Donahoe came here as a saviour, and left a tool.

Successful businessmen understand expenses can't exceed revenues. They also understand how to run their businesses based on the economic demographics of the specific marketplace they are doing business in. They can't expect to spend money that they know they aren't going to earn to begin with.

It isn't a coincidence most owners of Buffalo sports teams are labeled as cheap at one time or another...It's a result of the marketplace they are trying to function in.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The Sabres are not cheap...they spent up to a few million from the cap. The problem with them is that they don't have good management and blew it on the resigning front and then not bringing in any talent/leadership/grit/heart to replace what they lost. The Knoxes paid for LaFontaine, Hawerchuk, Mogilny, Simpson, Fuhr...they just didn't get it done on the management front. The Bills also fail on the management side and THAT is the reason we have not reached the playoffs in the past 10 years. When we had good GMs...Polian & Butler...this team was going to Super Bowls. Your theory is way off base. Put the right people in the front office and in the coaching positions and you CAN win a championship in Buffalo!

[YardRat]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

The Knoxes paid for LaFontaine, Hawerchuk, Mogilny, Simpson, Fuhr...they just didn't get it done on the management front.

It was the management that made the decisions to bring those players to begin with, not the Knoxes.

Put the right people in the front office and in the coaching positions and you CAN win a championship in Buffalo!

Scotty Bowman. How can you not get more 'right people' than that in the NHL?

[Nighthawk]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

It was the management that made the decisions to bring those players to begin with, not the Knoxes.



Scotty Bowman. How can you not get more 'right people' than that in the NHL?

Scotty was great and they made him GM along with being HC. It was his first time in this role and it didn't work out...it doesn't mean it was the wrong move, just the wrong time. Thus, management failed.

When the Knoxes brought in those guys, the coaching was mediocre. Thus it was a management problem.

Having the right people in the front office of an organization has a big effect on success. Look at the Pats, Colts...hell, you can even look at the Anaheim Ducks...they brought in Brian Burke and won the Cup.

[Buffatexas]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

so lets look at the coaching staff. As an example, Tony Dungy coaches the Bucs to consecutive NFC title games and loses both. Owner/whomever is sick of no super bowl, fires dungy, hires gruden. Same team, different staff, the win the SB (albeit they had the Raiders offensive playbook as callahan was too much of a dumb a$$ to alter the game plan)

so, back to the drawing board for us. Fire Jauron and the staff. Who do you bring in? Cowher? Billick? Pete Carroll? I havent a clue on that one. I cant decide what would be better here. A retread, promotion of current staff or a coach out of the college ranks? I cant see anyone coming here except maybe for Schottenheimer, ties to the organization(I think he played for us at one point in time) Even then, having Marty only guarantees us a few years before this board explodes with things like "all we can do is make the wild card game and then we lose, fire Marty!"...:)

[Ebenezer]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

It's simple...

We are Buffalo.....we are jinxed and we suck - nothing more than a boil on world.

[Night Train]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

It's simple...

We are Buffalo.....we are jinxed and we suck - nothing more than a boil on world.

LOL. Precisely. God hates us.

That reminds me. I'm late on my self loathing dues.

[Ebenezer]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

LOL. Precisely. God hates us.

That reminds me. I'm late on my self loathing dues.

Tell me anything good that came out of Buffalo since McKinley was assassinated?

[Night Train]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

The Sabres problem is Larry Quinn was placed back in power, since Tom G. knew nothing about hockey upon buying the team. Bad player decisions followed as expected. Quinn couldn't pick between Gordie Howe or Morris Titanic if his life depended on it.

Ralph is the ultimate nice guy who never had any football sense. Plus he periodically sticks his nose into personnel decisons which usually bombed. RJ anyone ?
He basically was the blind squirrel finding the nut when Lou Saban, Chuck Knox & Bill Polian were hired. Saban was a headcase but Knox and Polian were run out of town when Ralph decided to close the snapper purse and meddle. Butler was brought here by Polian and did OK until he mailed in his last draft. Since then, it's been a swing and a miss.

[Ebenezer]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

The Sabres problem is Larry Quinn was placed back in power, since Tom G. knew nothing about hockey upon buying the team. Bad player decisions followed as expected. Quinn couldn't pick between Gordie Howe or Morris Titanic if his life depended on it.

Ralph is the ultimate nice guy who never had any football sense. Plus he periodically sticks his nose into personnel decisons which usually bombed. RJ anyone ?
He basically was the blind squirrel finding the nut when Lou Saban, Chuck Knox & Bill Polian were hired. Saban was a headcase but Knox and Polian were run out of town when Ralph decided to close the snapper purse and meddle. Butler was brought here by Polian and did OK until he mailed in his last draft. Since then, it's been a swing and a miss.

He got lucky that Terry Bledsoe took ill and Polian had to take over.

Polian was subsequently fired for fighting with RW's daughter.

[Historian]

Re: Forked Thread: Isn't Ralph Wilson the ultimate problem with this team?

It's Ralph.

Jeff Littman has had far too much influence on the day to day affairs for way too long now.

Remember Polian's quote? (re: Wolford)

"Didn't happen on my watch!"

Funny you bring up Knox too Rat.

Walked off the job here. Why?

Wouldn't match the Cousineau offer.
Wouldn't pay Cribbs.
Wouldn't pay Butler.

There's a pattern of behavior here, and it's happened over and over throughout the past 50 years.