F the Tampa 2!

[jpdex12]

The Tampa two sucks! Tampa just proved it.

I didn't seem to mind this defense but after further consideration...it sucks!

[Philagape]

Its time has passed. Chicago fell apart this year, too. The scheme itself means nothing, because any scheme can be countered. Its success depends on talent, like other defenses. But unlike other defenses, the Cover 2 relies on other factors, like forcing the other team to play from behind, and on red zone defense after allowing long drives. I just want a defense where players do what they do; meaning, big linemen who stuff the run and DBs who actually cover receivers.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I want to adopt the Buffalo 11 scheme.
It's where 11 guys play like animals and get off the field after 3 plays.
In this scheme players are actually allowed to tackle the ball carrier and defend passes.
this will be a whole new scheme for the Bills.

[MarshawnIsDaMan]

Tampa did have one of the best defenses in the league. NYG are just hot right now. Even the Baltimore Ravens of 2000 got gashed by the Jaguars.

[TacklingDummy]

I agree.

F the Tampa 2.

I'd rather have the Bills defense of old. With Fat Pat, Ted, and Sam in the middle.

[colin]

jesus guys.

tampa had 8 in the box nearly all game.

do you guys think the 3-4 plays just by itself, no need for players?

the new england 3-4 got smacked up by the giants worse than the tampa 2 did today.

did you like the way pitts get run all over by new england and yesterday by jax?

i'd rather have the great d we used to have, but i'd also rather have the great d that tampa used to have when they had sapp.

indy's d has been very good since the playoffs last year and has recovered from big injuries to be top 5 this season, winning games when the o was hurt.

at some point you guys are should really stop being reactionary knee jerkers and think before typing.

[Confused]

A 3-4 with the versatility to play 4-3 is the key. NE is running it right now and is undefeated(newsflash)

[Elminster]

A 3-4 with the versatility to play 4-3 is the key. NE is running it right now and is undefeated(newsflash)
I would hardly paint their defense as the reason they're unbeaten. Their defense is merely above-average....

[justasportsfan]

Too late. Jauron is gonna go with continuity . He's gonna live or die with the Tampa 2.

[Night Train]

Too late. Jauron is gonna go with continuity . He's gonna live or die with the Tampa 2.

To be determined.

I don't think for a second he's junking it but a bigger DT in the middle isn't against some sort of civil law. It's a freakin' football game and a slight adjustment of a scheme can happen, especially when the current roster cannot stop the run.

[justasportsfan]

To be determined.

I don't think for a second he's junking it but a bigger DT in the middle isn't against some sort of civil law. It's a freakin' football game and a slight adjustment of a scheme can happen, especially when the current roster cannot stop the run.

He's not getting rid of Fewell is he? If anything they will tweak it if they do what you said but they won't be switching defenses.

[theanswer74]

A 3-4 with the versatility to play 4-3 is the key. NE is running it right now and is undefeated(newsflash)

The Ravens, Jets, and Dolphins run it also.

[Owen DeBoard]

jesus guys.

tampa had 8 in the box nearly all game.

do you guys think the 3-4 plays just by itself, no need for players?

the new england 3-4 got smacked up by the giants worse than the tampa 2 did today.

did you like the way pitts get run all over by new england and yesterday by jax?

i'd rather have the great d we used to have, but i'd also rather have the great d that tampa used to have when they had sapp.

indy's d has been very good since the playoffs last year and has recovered from big injuries to be top 5 this season, winning games when the o was hurt.

at some point you guys are should really stop being reactionary knee jerkers and think before typing.
Ill take the defense that the Jags and Giants run. 4-3 with the beef in the middle and corners man on man.

[venis2k1]

You mean every teams Defensive Tackles dont drop into pass coverage???

[theanswer74]

Ill take the defense that the Jags and Giants run. 4-3 with the beef in the middle and corners man on man.

What sucks is that Dick Jauron runs that defense, but he wanted to copy the Bears this time, the beef wasnt working too well for him in Detroit.

[colin]

geniuses,

it's the players, not the system. any decent system can work, but you need great players.

[DynaPaul]

Let's bring back the 4 - 6. No one has seen that one in awhile.

[jpdex12]

geniuses,

it's the players, not the system. any decent system can work, but you need great players.

Until you get overpowered in snowy conditions in Cleveland because your d-line and linebackers just aren't big enough to handle the added weight coming at them to block them. Speed can't help you in shi*ty conditions!

It scares me having to rely on speed when you have a team running the ball down your friggin throat and you know you can't measure up to the bigger blocking O line. It's like trying to stop a bowling ball with a toothpick and that's what our run defense looked like until about 8 tooth picks gang tackled the bowling ball 15 yards down field.

[Philagape]

The Cover 2 seems to need great players more than other systems.

[jpdex12]

The Cover 2 seems to need great players more than other systems.

Absolutely. Look at the good teams that ised the Tampa 2 and you can name the great player.

Just to name a few:
Tampa-DT-Sapp, CB-Barber, DE-Rice...

Indy-DE-Freeney, Safety-Sanders, LB-June...

Chicago-DT-Harris/Tank, LB-Urlacher/Briggs, Safety-Brown...

What's interesting is the drop of in production from the Bear's T-2 this year. It was the loss of Tank and the offense that kept the d on the field too long.

Our Defense would have been better if the O could have kept them of the field longer.

I don't see us dumping the T-2 in 2008 so let's hope that we find the studs to fill these important positions. We need a DT to step it up and make a difference. Our highly paid DE's need to start creating doubleteams. We need Poz to be Urlacher like.

[djjimkelly]

Too late. Jauron is gonna go with continuity . He's gonna live or die with the Tampa 2.


hopefully die soon with it i already consider 2008 as a throw away year and thats bloody sad i hope im wrong

[Spiderweb]

I want to adopt the Buffalo 11 scheme.
It's where 11 guys play like animals and get off the field after 3 plays.
In this scheme players are actually allowed to tackle the ball carrier and defend passes.
this will be a whole new scheme for the Bills.

Hey, this is no place for this kind of thinking....

[Night Train]

The Cover 2 seems to need great players more than other systems.

That's what I've been saying all along. The usual,broad brush response is Colts, Tampa, Chicago use it but I don't see the unique All-Pro players anywhere on our D. So I view those responses as lame.

If the talent doesn't fit the scheme, change it or tweek it.

[YardRat]

Kiffin's done pretty well with it consistently, over a lengthy period of time, and with a variety of different players.

Same with Dungy.

[eyedog]

You mean if we alter our schemes a little we might be able to draft d-tackles like Harris, Wilfork, and Ngata ?
Will players like this be alowed to "fit the system" ?
On the other hand I'm not really sure how they fit when they drop off into pass coverage.

[colin]

can you guys provide any actual evidence of the tampa 2 needing more great players than any other D? pointing out great players on great tampa 2 d's doesn't exactly prove anything other than great players help the D.

SD had what, 12 or 13 total probowl apperances over the past 2 seasons on D, and they are middle of the pak this year. does that mean the 3-4 sucks because it can't work even with a ton of great players?

guys, any good scheme with good players and coaches works. the very very aggressive Ds like the 46 (giants, philly, balty have run some kind of variation of this) really do require some great individuals due to the high risk nature of what they do, but even they don't need wall to wall stars.

[colin]

You mean if we alter our schemes a little we might be able to draft d-tackles like Harris, Wilfork, and Ngata ?
Will players like this be alowed to "fit the system" ?
On the other hand I'm not really sure how they fit when they drop off into pass coverage.

dood,

harris plays for a tampa 2 d, he is in fact the prototypical tampa 2 dt.

sometimes you guys, jeesh.

[Philagape]

That's what I've been saying all along. The usual,broad brush response is Colts, Tampa, Chicago use it but I don't see the unique All-Pro players anywhere on our D. So I view those responses as lame.

If the talent doesn't fit the scheme, change it or tweek it.

People say it depends so much on the pass rush, but we've locked up $75 million worth of mediocrity there. If Schobel and Kelsay are our DEs for the next four years, we might as well trash the system because it ain't gonna work.

[justasportsfan]

Our cover 2 did enough in the redzone to limit O to fg's. The D wasn't the problem. The D did it's part and would've been enough to take us to the playoffs inspite of the injuries.

Unfortunately, it wasn't good enough to score points for the O.

[eyedog]

dood,

harris plays for a tampa 2 d, he is in fact the prototypical tampa 2 dt.

sometimes you guys, jeesh.

It's really a blast at not drafting d-lineman over the years when we have had early picks.
Haynesworth, Henderson, Harris, Wilfork, and the latest Ngata.

Sorry but they will never win passing over good d-lineman for safeties.

[ddaryl]

Our cover 2 did enough in the redzone to limit O to fg's. The D wasn't the problem. The D did it's part and would've been enough to take us to the playoffs inspite of the injuries.

Unfortunately, it wasn't good enough to score points for the O.

the D is a huge problem, or the DL. Having a DE or any DL play pass coverage outside of a screen pass is ludicrous.

A D based on finesse won't win bad weather battles against bigger OL.

why else do you think they were rated at ther bottom.


there is no argument for the Tampa 2 in Buffalo. It needs to go the way of the DoDo.

[colin]

It's really a blast at not drafting d-lineman over the years when we have had early picks.
Haynesworth, Henderson, Harris, Wilfork, and the latest Ngata.

Sorry but they will never win passing over good d-lineman for safeties.

what does this have to do 2 the cover 2?

except ngata those were all drafts by the previous gm, when we had a different D, and for the first one we had very good DTs!!

any of the 'H' DTs above could fit into the cover 2, and harris IS in the cover 2, and is considered the perfect cover 2 DT.

and the only safety we drafted was whitner over ngata.

do you actually think anything you say makes sense or supports your argument, or do you just wanna ***** about bad drafts?

[colin]

the D is a huge problem, or the DL. Having a DE or any DL play pass coverage outside of a screen pass is ludicrous.

A D based on finesse won't win bad weather battles against bigger OL.

why else do you think they were rated at ther bottom.


there is no argument for the Tampa 2 in Buffalo. It needs to go the way of the DoDo.

christ!!!

DE COVERING IS A ZONE BLITZ!!!!! THAT IS NOT SPECIFIC TO THE COVER 2 AND REALLY ISN'T USED MUCH!!!!!!

there is no argument for the tampa 2?!?!?!?!? you are arguing against zone blitzes, which are rarely done under a cover 2 or tampa 2 scheme!!

[eyedog]

I want to ***** about bad drafts for the last decade. Which is the main reason this team still sucks.
Until they fiqure out the game is won in the trenches they will continue to lose.

[eyedog]

Did you know the last five years the Bills have used their 1st pick in the draft on two wide receivers, two running backs, and one safety ?

Lynch, Whitner, Parrish, Evans, McGahee. Some nice players but those positions can't excell when the lines stink.

So when I hear players like Ngata don't "fit the system" I say change the system.

[colin]

Did you know the last five years the Bills have used their 1st pick in the draft on two wide receivers, two running backs, and one safety ?

Lynch, Whitner, Parrish, Evans, McGahee. Some nice players but those positions can't excell when the lines stink.

So when I hear players like Ngata don't "fit the system" I say change the system.

i feel your draft pain, but ngata is over rated and whitner is under rated on this board.

also, all good coaches change personel to match their systems more than the other way around.

they will make exceptions for great players, but you don't say "these scrubs look like 4-3 scrubs", you set out a plan and you stick to it.

parcells, holmgren, billicheck, gruden, dungy,

all have a system and will change people to make it work.

[eyedog]

Maybe so, but Jauron and Fewell don't have quite the track record as your above mentioned coaches.

I say draft the best players available and change your sh**** system.

When I hear big run stuffing d-tackles don't fit somethings wrong. Because I'm sick of seeing running games trampling our defense with our "speed guys".

[ddaryl]

christ!!!

DE COVERING IS A ZONE BLITZ!!!!! THAT IS NOT SPECIFIC TO THE COVER 2 AND REALLY ISN'T USED MUCH!!!!!!

there is no argument for the tampa 2?!?!?!?!? you are arguing against zone blitzes, which are rarely done under a cover 2 or tampa 2 scheme!!


LMAO go christ your ****ing self in the ass


I've never witnessed Bruce Smith or any other bills DE go out and cover a RB outside of a screen pass.

not to mention you didn't even read the rest of my argument in regards to finesse douche

[colin]

LMAO go christ your ****ing self in the ass


I've never witnessed Bruce Smith or any other bills DE go out and cover a RB outside of a screen pass.

not to mention you didn't even read the rest of my argument in regards to finesse douche

ok, i don't want to be this guy, but you leave me no choice.

you're not smart. you are a football fan (a good thing) but you don't have the intellectual curriosity to begin to understand a game played by children (this is a bad thing, and it is a result of your stupidity).

it doesn't matter what you've seen bills DEs do. you mave have perfect vision but you are not bright enough to process the data.

when a lineman drops into coverage, it is part of a zone blitz. the idea is to rush people who aren't linemen, but to drop people who are. this is supposed to confuse the qb.

sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

the tampa 2 is not a zone blitzing scheme. you can of course zone blitz if you want to, but zone blitzing is not integral to the core of the D.

it also isn't (that is the same as IS NOT, in case your little head got all confused) a finesse D. it is a one gap d that requires disruption with the front four and does not rely on blitzing as a staple. bigger linemen are not as valued as faster linemen, but size is a good thing just like speed in a 3-4 is valued.

other 4-3 Ds (like philly, nyg and even minnisota) have very similar requirements from the front 4. faster aggressive guys who can disrupt. are they finesse d's?

now here is a nice little lesson (get your mom to say it even more slowly when she reads it to you before tucking you into bed with your safety helmet on):

THE SYSTEM DOESN'T MAKE PLAYS, THE PLAYERS DO

a scheme is only as good as the players in it. the tampa 2 doesn't require any more rare or magical players than any other scheme, as a matter of fact it requires less rare players than a 3-4 (for example), but it still requires talent.

we suck on d because we have horrible horrible guys. this is due to youth, injury, and lacking a few stars.

we can get the stars we need in the draft and FA. if we get them and are healthy the d will be good.

your homework (please try it before taking your pills that make you all sleepy) is to look at the Ds in the nfl and look at how they rank and what there schemes are.

you'll notice good, bad, and ok ds with different schemes. the better ds tend to have the better players.

now i gave away the answer, but you prolly still won't get it.

[Mr. Pink]

Colin, most people don't understand that it's not the system, it's the players.

They think magically dumping the system and going to the 3-4 or 4-3, the team is magically overnight going to be good on D.

Each system requires certain pieces to be in place to be effective. A coach sets the system and then the front office's job is to fill that system.

You can find good D's with every system, just like you can find terrible D's.

Cleveland runs a 3-4 and sucks, so they should change the system.
We run a Cover 2 and suck, so we should change the system.
Oakland runs a 4-3 and sucks, so they should change the system.

Using the logic that is used here, that's the scenario.

No one takes into account that it takes a few offseasons to bring in the right personnel to employ each system correctly.

[mayotm]

LMAO go christ your ****ing self in the assCould somebody explain what "christ your ****ing self in the ass" means? I realize it wasn't directed at me, but I'm very curious.

[colin]

you know, SOME of the anti cover 2 posts are coming from an interesting place.

i'm not married to it (although i feel like i am lawyering for it!), but i do think some good teams have won championships with it so it is worth a look.

so i'll stick to my guns (similar position to you funtimes) but if someone can point out a flaw that some other D might be better at solving that is relevant to our team (as in we should x instead of y) then i'm happy to accept the lesson.

i just got a bit bothered by that ddaryl calling me a douche and telling me to suck his balls in my cp and all that when all he has to do is talk some ball and i'll happily say hey, i learned something.

and daryl you should explain what the christ your ****ing self in the ass means to all of us, you might be an expert on verbs that affect your ass.

you certainly won't know any less about it than you do about football, that's for certain.

[jpdex12]

The Tampa two sucks! Tampa just proved it.

I didn't seem to mind this defense but after further consideration...it sucks!

I miss the days of fats boys clogging up the middle and no necked lumber jack looking linebackers and shut down corners. After reading many posts about which defense sucks and which don't I have to admit that a lot does depend on the players that you have at each position. I do think that some defenses may be more successful than others because of the ability for some defenses to easily manipulate adjustments into the scheme during a game more easily than others.

I will say that if we are to make this Tampa 2 work better next year with Fewell, we have to get heavier DT's that are just as fast as we need them to be. They are out there, we just have to find them.

We need a heavier, speedy DT, a bigger playmaking outside linebacker, and an offense that will stay on the field longer and we will be on our way to the playoffs.